so i love the song blanche.

but this line does dissapoint me

ultimately it proves that prince didnt ever really take his interest in challenging gender constructs that seriously

it was probably really just a superficial thing - e.g wearing frilly costumes, womens clothes, high heels ('women dig em'), something everyone was doing at the time, so he was just going along with the trend in the late 70s/80s

which is actually totally fine, not everyone has to be a warrior on all issues, and hey, most people are contradictory, so i can accept that not everyone is going to be 100% consistent

but this line in blanche (in 87, not his JW period), and later stories of him and larry lecturing bobby z on why homosexuality is wrong show that prince didnt care much about offending his gay fans (idk if madonna for example, or dolly parton would cut a song with a line about fags in it), of which there is probably quite a big number, similiar i am guessing to all those people who saw bowie in the 70s and felt like there was a (sort of) gay presence they could see in popular music at last

ofc prince is allowed to mock gays if he likes

but i guess this line shows that for all the people who like to hold him up as some sort of fighter for marginalised groups is pretty questionable

prince was a freak, he flew a freak flag for others too, but didnt mean that that came without prejudices

[Edited 2/4/21 12:05pm]

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

TheBigBang said:

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

A good point. As distasteful as the word is, judging Prince for using it in this context is a bit of a reach, but that seems to be the OP's thing today - trying to stir up shit by pulling out individual words or lines as inflammatory.

Guess what? Artists are free to do what they like.

TheBigBang said:

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

Agree. I also believe it was written in character as the macho, working class, misogynistic Stanley Kowalski. You can tell by the other lyrics and Prince's vocal delivery. Whats interesting is that there has been scholarship about the possible gay subtext of the character.

TheBigBang said:

TwiliteKid said:

TheBigBang said:

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

A good point. As distasteful as the word is, judging Prince for using it in this context is a bit of a reach, but that seems to be the OP's thing today - trying to stir up shit by pulling out individual words or lines as inflammatory.

Today?

As a lifelong member of the LGBTQ community, I'm going to say this as respectfully as possible:

Genesia said:

TwiliteKid said:

A good point. As distasteful as the word is, judging Prince for using it in this context is a bit of a reach, but that seems to be the OP's thing today - trying to stir up shit by pulling out individual words or lines as inflammatory.

Today?

Haha, I meant the lyrics bit. Stirring up shit is definitely his/her thing.

Well he had every right to use the word fag since he was gay himself.


I kid I kid


No but seriously, I'm glad I don't care for this song because as a lifelong fan of his, through TRC and NPGMC and loving his bonkers religious stuff just as much as anything else he did, hearing him use the word fag was the first time I thought to myself 'no Prince, that's kind of disgusting' -especially knowing he recorded it just after Sign O The Times. Nice

He'd write from characters, he'd write from different parts of his personality, he'd write from the social influences of whoever was around him in his bubble and what was perceived as cool, he'd evolve, he'd regress... you know, it's Prince.

Also, not for nothing but the 80's were all about using slurs and offensive language casually without meaning it.

I don't think Prince had Bowie appeal within the LGBTQ community after Dirty Mind or maybe Controversy. Not sure how many Gays identified with Prince after he shed the Sylvester influences. He had Gay fans, sure, but Bowie was actually living a gender fluid, non-hetero normative lifestyle it wasn't just image.

TheBigBang said:

I'll never understand this current need to go back in time and pick apart songs that were written over three decades ago using today's social morays. Also, understand that in "a song about a girl named Blanche and a dude named Stanley," that Prince isn't actually talking as Prince.

I think it's pretty valid to criticize works from that past that involve discriminatory language or content. Homophobia wasn't okay in the 80's just because people threw it around so casually and openly. Slavery wasn't okay in the 1700's just because tons of white folks had them (definitely a more extreme example, but it still stands)

Tennesee Williams, self-repression, homoeroticism - read up on 'em.

lavendardrummachine said:

He'd write from characters, he'd write from different parts of his personality, he'd write from the social influences of whoever was around him in his bubble and what was perceived as cool, he'd evolve, he'd regress... you know, it's Prince.

Also, not for nothing but the 80's were all about using slurs and offensive language casually without meaning it.

I don't think Prince had Bowie appeal within the LGBTQ community after Dirty Mind or maybe Controversy. Not sure how many Gays identified with Prince after he shed the Sylvester influences. He had Gay fans, sure, but Bowie was actually living a gender fluid, non-hetero normative lifestyle it wasn't just image.

Bowie was in an environment that was more tolerant of gender fluidity.

No, Prince doesn't need to be crucified for this and yes there is to much judgment of what people said decades ago. Nevertheless, given it was such a homophobic time it is disappointing that he wrote the lyric. Glad it wasn't released, so perhaps he would have given it more thought if it had. The 80s were so hard for gays with the AIDS backlash, so anything negative from the few seemingly accepting stars is a drag. I would have been equally disappointed in Bowie, Madonna, or Queen to include something like this. It doesn't change my overall perspective of being a huge fan of his music and career.

Margot said:

Bowie was in an environment that was more tolerant of gender fluidity.

The environment wasn't the difference between Prince and Bowie, their individual sexualities were. Prince was a heterosexual man.

[Edited 2/4/21 20:37pm]

sulls said:

Well, now we see how well releasing Extralovable and Lust U Always would go over with this bunch. Thanks for saving us all with your bullshit woke outrage. Yes - save us all through censorship.

yawn.

lavendardrummachine said:

Margot said:

Bowie was in an environment that was more tolerant of gender fluidity.

The environment wasn't the difference between Prince and Bowie, their individual sexualities were. Prince was a heterosexual man.

[Edited 2/4/21 20:37pm]

Oh, OK...

[Edited 2/4/21 21:07pm]

lavendardrummachine said:

Margot said:

Bowie was in an environment that was more tolerant of gender fluidity.

The environment wasn't the difference between Prince and Bowie, their individual sexualities were. Prince was a heterosexual man.

Oh, sorry, is Iman a drag queen or something? Cuz the last time I checked, she's all woman, and she's been married to him since 1992 until he died. And he was married before and had kids. Sooo... your point?

He said, in the early 80s, that saying he was bisexual was "the biggest mistake I ever made," (mainly because of the "puritanical" attitude in the U.S.), and that he was a "closet heterosexual." Ziggy declared himself gay a decade before, but David Bowie was hetero.

If anything, Bowie played with sexuality and androgyny 100x more than Prince ever did, all while fucking women and having kids with them. Apparently, it confused more people than he anticipated.

TrivialPursuit said:

lavendardrummachine said:

The environment wasn't the difference between Prince and Bowie, their individual sexualities were. Prince was a heterosexual man.

Oh, sorry, is Iman a drag queen or something? Cuz the last time I checked, she's all woman, and she's been married to him since 1992 until he died. And he was married before and had kids. Sooo... your point?

He said, in the early 80s, that saying he was bisexual was "the biggest mistake I ever made," (mainly because of the "puritanical" attitude in the U.S.), and that he was a "closet heterosexual." Ziggy declared himself gay a decade before, but David Bowie was hetero.

If anything, Bowie played with sexuality and androgyny 100x more than Prince ever did, all while fucking women and having kids with them. Apparently, it confused more people than he anticipated.

Bowie was bisexual.

Margot said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Oh, sorry, is Iman a drag queen or something? Cuz the last time I checked, she's all woman, and she's been married to him since 1992 until he died. And he was married before and had kids. Sooo... your point?

He said, in the early 80s, that saying he was bisexual was "the biggest mistake I ever made," (mainly because of the "puritanical" attitude in the U.S.), and that he was a "closet heterosexual." Ziggy declared himself gay a decade before, but David Bowie was hetero.

If anything, Bowie played with sexuality and androgyny 100x more than Prince ever did, all while fucking women and having kids with them. Apparently, it confused more people than he anticipated.

Bowie was bisexual, (read a little more), Prince, likely as well.

I'm going to bed, not in the mood for any arguments about this.

[Edited 2/4/21 21:22pm]

as a flamingly gay male i can say with 110 percent accuracy that prince was decidedly not bisexual

Margot said:

Bowie was bisexual, (read a little more), Prince, likely as well.

I'm going to bed, not in the mood for any arguments about this.

Oh, cowardly response. Tuck n' run. "Likely" is conjecture, at best. Not fact, just ill-informed and obtuse opinion.

TrivialPursuit said:

As a lifelong member of the LGBTQ community, I'm going to say this as respectfully as possible:

I'm sure he meant like a cigarette, the car was emitting too much exhaust that it looked like a lit fag

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

it was probably really just a superficial thing - e.g wearing frilly costumes, womens clothes, high heels ('women dig em'), something everyone was doing at the time,

Not where I come from they weren't.