FasterThan67 said:

Prince never got to remaster the vault tracks

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Learn what mastering is first.

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Also, this has been debated to death.

FasterThan67 said:

I thought it all sounded pretty muddy when it came out, especially the Comp Blue long version. It wasn't until I heard the 1999 Vault tracks did I confirm this in my mind. I think they used poorly sourced vault material for the PR Deluxe. Love and Sex sounds murky....but when you listen to older songs from 1999 and even older on the SOTT (I Could Never '79 version) you can't help but conclude, the PR vault stuff is poorly done.I think the estate acknowledges this by calling it a Deluxe and the 1999 and SOTT sets, Super Deluxe.

The good thing is, we'll very likely see a Super Deluxe of PR.

BartVanHemelen said:

FasterThan67 said:

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Learn what mastering is first.

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Also, this has been debated to death.

I have to agree.

How can something that's never been mastered in the first place be remastered?

FasterThan67 said:

i worded myself terribly. my main question about Purple Rain deluxe is: why does the album sound so much better than the vault tracks AND single edits? for example, Computer Blue (2015 Paisley Park Remaster) sounds much better (to me) than Computer Blue (Hallway Speech Version). since these are the same song being released on the same set, i was confused as to why one version of the song sounds so much better than the other (even though they are different lengths, they are still virtually the same song, so something still doesn’t make sense to me.) this also is true for the single edits. for example, When Doves Cry (2015 Paisley Park Remaster) is MUCH louder and fuller sounding than When Doves Cry (7” single edit) and yet they’re on the same set. what i have gathered is that i incorrectly used the term remaster (i meant to say “why is the album Purple Rain album so much better sounding than the vault tracks EVEN THOUGH they are released on the same set”) and that the source material for the vault tracks of Purple Rain Deluxe may not have been in the best condition, which means bad sound on the album. again, i’m sorry if there’s already been threads on this. i just recently joined the org and found myself wondering this while re-listening to the album.

OK. So as stated before and as far as we know, the vault hadn't even begun to being sorted out at that time (2017), so WB could either postpone the project or use what they had for the outtakes CD. What they had were cassette mixdowns (regular cassettes, the same kind bootleggers use) and they decided to go with that. Same with Moonbeam Levels on 4ever BTW.

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Later on, they did it again with P&AM83 and Bold Generation on 1999 SDE, but in in these cases it's because they couldn't find any better source or usable multitrack in the vault (they had, by then, begun to inventory its content).

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This explains the sound quality as well as the fact that TDE isn't the final mix that was sent to André and that we have on bootlegs, but an earlier, work in progress version.

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The good news there, though, is that we got to hear original mixes, as made by Prince's engineers at the time. Later on, when mixdowns couldn't be found on any other formats than cassettes, WB had Niko Bolas recreate the mix from the multitracks, which led to certain creative liberties being taken with the material, particularly on Originals.

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Also, it appears that the RG/OD crossfade on PR SDE was made by WB from 2 separate cassettes in order to try and recreate the original intent but, if I'm to believe collectors who've heard said original intent, WB got it wrong.

^ I forgot to reply about the difference between the proper album and the singles' sound.

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Prince had Josh Welton remaster PR before he died. WB chose to respect P's wishes and use this. The edits, mixes and b-sides, however, were remastered posthumously by Bernie Grundman, who considered one of the best mastering engineers in the world. Predictably, young Welton went for loudness wars and old Grundman went for a little more subtelty.

databank said:

FasterThan67 said:

databank said:

^ I forgot to reply about the difference between the proper album and the singles' sound.

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Prince had Josh Welton remaster PR before he died. WB chose to respect P's wishes and use this. The edits, mixes and b-sides, however, were remastered posthumously by Bernie Grundman, who considered one of the best mastering engineers in the world. Predictably, young Welton went for loudness wars and old Grundman went for a little more subtelty.

ahhh, i see. thank you so much for all the information! [Edited 1/14/21 19:20pm]

Anytime. Welcome 2 the Org

Remastering just means a new tape transfer and processes like EQ and compression (ideally not too much compression lol) to tweak the overall sound of the already-mixed recording. The Hallway Speech version was mastered, however the source of the tape was clearly not first gen, or anywhere near close to that, resulting in a murkier sound overall than the original album version


Not even the best remastering processes can fix a bad mix, or a tape transfer taken from a high gen source, even though it can certainly help lesson their faults to at least a little extent

The album version remaster was taken from a high-resolution digital transfer of the original analog master tapes, the Hallway Speech version was transferred via God knows where lol it clearly doesn't sound like a first gen source to me. More like a tape of a tape of a tape

[Edited 1/15/21 0:04am]

databank said:

^ I forgot to reply about the difference between the proper album and the singles' sound.

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Prince had Josh Welton remaster PR before he died. WB chose to respect P's wishes and use this. The edits, mixes and b-sides, however, were remastered posthumously by Bernie Grundman, who considered one of the best mastering engineers in the world. Predictably, young Welton went for loudness wars and old Grundman went for a little more subtelty.

Databank, I agree with all you have said. After hearing how great a job they did with the SOTT album, I really hope they can do something for the Purple Rain album. SOTT sounds new to me. Leading up to the Super Deluxe set, I was sure I would spend most of my time on the vault material. I am surprised how often I've returned to the remastered original album. Truly amazing. I feel they can do a great remaster of Purple Rain.

Thankfully Purple Rain had a decent hi-res transfer done via HD Tracks a while back, however I am definitely down for a bit of modernization in the form of a bass-frequency laden, properly EQ'd mastering in the same vein as the 1999 remaster

RODSERLING said:

No, and I think the old CD versions of any SDE original albums sound better.

Even SOTT?

RODSERLING said:

No, and I think the old CD versions of any SDE original albums sound better.

Wait until you hear the original vinyl of SOTT then compared to the horrible original SOTT CD.
The original vinyl still sounds great but the SDE CD's sound better and you can hear even more than on the original vinyl and especially than on the original CD.