Vannormal said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Vannormal said:

thebanishedone said:

I agree about everything, Lisa is amazing,always was. Whole The Revolution was amazing and

Wendy was the weakest link

but still she was a good musician and a good influence and inspiration on Prince.

she just was not a gifted soloist

and she never become one, so yes all the rhythm work she did was ok.

but as soon as she needed to solo,she was lost.

-

I'm giving up on you, you know.

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though.

-

i play guitar for the bigger part odf my life and i know what i'm talking about.in fact i uploaded a video of me playing Black Magic Woman with a latin band if you want 2 c it . here is the download link :

https://easyupload.io/aznnlx

in this video you can see how i play.i suck on guitar compared to every guitar player who played with Prince but for Wendy im a master on guitar

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist Shes a writer first, not a soloist Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter [Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]

Ok. Any written pieces of her guitar work that stands out?

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

My point is I think shes a perfectly good guitarist But maybe the point of her playing is not to win battle of the bands but just use it to write cool ot interesting things

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

thebanishedone said:

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Ok. Any written pieces of her guitar work that stands out?

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

the guitar work on "Waterfall" is super basic...nothing even remotely special... a novice/intermediate can play that

RJOrion said:

thebanishedone said:

Only on the song Waterfalls from her solo career

the guitar work on "Waterfall" is super basic...nothing even remotely special... a novice/intermediate can play that

yeah but at least it's not sloppy,full of off key bends like she usually plays

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

So back to the main post, does anyone wonder if maybe prince disbanded the band just cos after purple rain, and two later albums, he was like, I'm not advancing with this band, weren't going to go multi platinum like before, might as well discard them now. Like they were a reminder almost of a peak he wasnt going to reach again. Also other stuff to do with control, wanting to feel independent again,his need to start over etc, but I wonder of the revolution were always linked to a relatively quick rise and sharper fall than expected (he had artistic goals amd knew they were important but I wonder if he still was angry he wasnt selling bigger numbers)

I think songs like Wally which is not about Wally but Susannah and his ending with the Revolution(which also represented a longer era than 83-86) tell more about intimate connections. Old Friends 4 Sale is another song that deals with the ending of an era. There is one more song I'm missing.
.
After this period even in 1987 after the cancellation of the Black Album and the conflicted imagery of the Lovesexy period I knew, he was ending relationship tied to him. And Dr Fink, Miko, Sheila E, Eric etc would be gone soon. By 1991 (outside of Levi) everyone was basically gone, whether in camp or band.

.

But these are people he also continued relationships/friendships with throught his life overall. Yes with Vanity 6 the Time 'Revolution' members 1978-1986 non band musicicians
Not Miko or Levi it seems. And not Jill Jones, until the year Denise Matthews died.
He reconnected with Cat it seems in the 2000s

thebanishedone said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

My point is I think shes a perfectly good guitarist But maybe the point of her playing is not to win battle of the bands but just use it to write cool ot interesting things

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

She is good at rhythm and she is a good musician,very good on bass guitar,

but she was not a gifted soloist and that is my pointpeople try to give her

credits where it was not deserved.

But also back to the topic. Yes it was good for Prince to change bands,but it's not true that The Revolution couldn't follow.but maybe he wanted some1 to lead him in new directions,not to follow.

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

thebanishedone said:

jaawwnn said:

So you've moved on from your "incompetent musician" and" lousy guitar player" position that started this whole shitshow of a thread?

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

OldFriends4Sale said:

thebanishedone said:

incompetent and lousy when it comes to lead guitar yes.but she is ok at rhythm.

And the reason i started it because its always The Revolution could not pull it off,and people give Bobby as an example of being the weakest link.thats why i said what i think and that is Bobby worked hard for his money. Wendy not so much ,if we look at their performing skills.

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

I didn't say he disbanded the Revolution because of Wendys skills ,its obvious why he did it.Prince disbanded The Revolution only because Wendy And Lisa quit and he had to send his entourage to beg them to stay.so Prince already had revenge in his mind.He will fire them after the tour. If the girls didn't get their heads up their hills The Revolution would continue for a longer period.

[Edited 11/5/20 7:13am]

Lets just make this clear so we can stop going around in circles

thebanishedone's argument is:

A) Wendy sucked at lead guitar in 1983-1986 and he never saw any evidence that she got better
B) Wendy was a competent but not especially amazing rhythm guitarist in 1983-1986 and he has never seen any evidence that she got better
C) She may be a good musician and artist outside of lead guitar playing but he is not interested in that.

His original statement that she is an "incompetent musician" was not what he actually meant, he was specifically talking about her guitar playing skills.

Guitar playing skills = guitar solos and funky rhythm guitar playing exclusively. Using interesting or innovative chords is not applicable as that is more of a songwriting skill.

[Edited 11/5/20 7:18am]

jaawwnn said:

Lets just make this clear so we can stop going around in circles

thebanishedone's argument is:

A) Wendy sucked at lead guitar in 1983-1986 and he never saw any evidence that she got better
B) Wendy was a competent but not especially amazing rhythm guitarist in 1983-1986 and he has never seen any evidence that she got better
C) She may be a good musician and artist outside of lead guitar playing but he is not interested in that.

His original statement that she is an "incompetent musician" was not what he actually meant, he was specifically talking about her guitar playing skills.

Guitar playing skills = guitar solos and funky rhythm guitar playing exclusively. Using interesting or innovative chords is not applicable as that is more of a songwriting skill.

[Edited 11/5/20 7:18am]

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )

thebanishedone said:

Vannormal said:

-

I'm giving up on you, you know.

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though.

-

i play guitar for the bigger part odf my life and i know what i'm talking about.in fact i uploaded a video of me playing Black Magic Woman with a latin band if you want 2 c it . here is the download link :

https://easyupload.io/aznnlx

in this video you can see how i play.i suck on guitar compared to every guitar player who played with Prince but for Wendy im a master on guitar

-

Good !

But I'll be the judge of that. lol

Let's see.

-

thebanishedone said:

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )

You're not bursting my bubble, I like the big, interesting chords she uses across the W&L stuff. You may counter that actually, they are not interesting, and this or that person writes better chords. That's fine, I don't mind, they're interesting to me.

I like some bands who are incompetent musicians and I can listen to them play for hours and hours and hours before i'll listen to some juilliard trained sessions musos do "good" playing. Generally speaking, I dislike good playing; musicians need to be put in their place when they are playing on a pop song. The Funk Brothers may be some of the best musicians that ever played on pop records but without those pop records they're just more jazz players noodling away to themselves as far as i'm concerned.

Case in point: Wendy's playing on that Madonna song means nothing to me because I think that song suuuuuuucks

[Edited 11/5/20 7:50am]

-

Another thing,

it is not a competition to be better or best. Music is not sports !

Maybe in the Us of divided A, but not in my world.

And I will never give in on he or she is worse or better.

That's what makes the world so sick and divided, and for what reason? I am right and you are wrong ?

Hendrix, Prince, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Slash...

and thousands of others great players, were all a million years of difference in comparison.

Skills are not what counts tbh.

I know hundreds of bedroom guitarists that are even better skilled than any of the greats out there.

It's not that what counts.

But if you don't get this, you're just up for plain competition through skills.

Again, peace though.

-

damn... that black-white-red telecaster is beautiful

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Maybe shes not meant to be a soloist Shes a writer first, not a soloist Maybe she has a certain sound, a tone that means being Hendrix on guitar doesnt matter [Edited 11/5/20 4:39am]

-

exactly

-

Vannormal said:

-

Another thing,

it is not a competition to be better or best. Music is not sports !

Maybe in the Us of divided A, but not in my world.

And I will never give in on he or she is worse or better.

That's what makes the world so sick and divided, and for what reason? I am right and you are wrong ?

Hendrix, Prince, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Slash...

and thousands of others great players, were all a million years of difference in comparison.

Skills are not what counts tbh.

I know hundreds of bedroom guitarists that are even better skilled than any of the greats out there.

It's not that what counts.

But if you don't get this, you're just up for plain competition through skills.

Again, peace though.

-

i agree with you.its less about skill and more about conviction .Its more important to believe in what you play than what you are actually playing,and you are right music is not sport.i didn't mean to drag Wendy in a negative content ,it's just im tired of seeing people saying the same old here on org.

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

A and b is correct.c is incorrect.

I actually did listened to all the stuff she did with Lisa,stuff she did with Seal,unreleased sessions with George Michael.i like what she

addded on Madonna's She's Not Me.

Good guitar skills = being good at everything guitar related.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the chords she used 9th and suspended chords was nothing innovative.Prince was using those chords from day 1 and much more (I Feel 4 U )

You're not bursting my bubble, I like the big, interesting chords she uses across the W&L stuff. You may counter that actually, they are not interesting, and this or that person writes better chords. That's fine, I don't mind, they're interesting to me.

I like some bands who are incompetent musicians and I can listen to them play for hours and hours and hours before i'll listen to some juilliard trained sessions musos do "good" playing. Generally speaking, I dislike good playing; musicians need to be put in their place when they are playing on a pop song. The Funk Brothers may be some of the best musicians that ever played on pop records but without those pop records they're just more jazz players noodling away to themselves as far as i'm concerned.

Case in point: Wendy's playing on that Madonna song means nothing to me because I think that song suuuuuuucks

[Edited 11/5/20 7:50am]

I did say those chords are not innovative,i never said those 9th and sus chords are not interesting.of course they are .all chord inversions are more interesting that just standard chords.I also like bands who are nothing special on their instrument but they are tight units.Lots of early 80s new wave bands fit the bill.I would rather watch Duran Duran live than Yngwie Malmstein for example.Solos are just a part of an arangement and what matters the most is a good song.But i do think that Wendy should have practice the lead parts Prince gave her.And i think she didn't practice enough.Bobby Rivkin on the other hand was always on top of the game.He couldn't take Prince to fusion latin jazz like Sheila ,but he could change his drumming to fit anything Prince played from straight forward rock new wave to soul,funk,even jazz.If you listen to Bobbys drum rolls you can see that Gene Krupa was one of Bobbys jazz influences. So my final statement is :yes it was good for Prince to switch musicians but i still think The Revolution could do 1987/1988 style of shows cause they were already doing it in 1986 .All the horn arrangements were already done in 1986 along with turnarounds and i didn't see The Revolution missing a bit. The only problem with switching the band members was that while new band members were strong on their instruments ,at the same time they were lacking the individuality of The Revolution.I will tell you where i miss Wendy the most after she left.It was in the vocal harmonies department.Wendy and Lisa did simple but nice an effective vocal harmonies behind Prince's lead vocal.

thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

dude

.

whatever your feelings it's not why he disbanded the Revolution

He continued to be friends with her through his whole like and continued to work with her in period

I didn't say he disbanded the Revolution because of Wendys skills ,its obvious why he did it.Prince disbanded The Revolution only because Wendy And Lisa quit and he had to send his entourage to beg them to stay.so Prince already had revenge in his mind.He will fire them after the tour. If the girls didn't get their heads up their hills The Revolution would continue for a longer period.

In one of the SOTT podcasts,Wendy says that they "weren't making much money" and asked for a raise.Prince was pissed,so that could also be one of the reasons why he let them go

SoulAlive said:

LoveGalore said:

Vannormal said:

-

I'm giving up on you, you know.

Do you play the guitar yourself ?

I don't like to judge someone for something I'm not capable of doing myself.

Isn't it clear that it is not always about the skills you need to have, but about the whole package you need to deliver (as an artist)? At least that's what I believe in.

Michael jackson for instance couldn't play one instrument, but was a songwriter nevertheless.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the Wendy this Wendy that badness.

Peace though.

-

He's actually a very talented guitarist. He also happens to be correct, imo. Wendy is one of the very few guitarists in Prince's history of employees where I can't think of a single great solo on record or live. Did she ever solo on record? Not in Prince's band. Interesting really considering every other guitarist in his bands except Kat Dyson had solos either on a record or throughout a tour. Miko and Dez got tons of solo action. Levi did too. Donna did too.

that 97% of the Time (a baddassed group) never recorded on the 3/4 Time albums sorta messes up your arguement here. I guess that is Jesse on Jungle Love.

.

That Sheila E's band never recorded on any songs except for 2 Sexy (Steph B is a monster ax man) and Merci4theSpeedofaMadclownInSummer

.

On songs like America I don't know who is taking guitar solo pieces

.

Dez only got the Little Red Corvette guitar solo 1979-1982 and his is an ax man

.

Did Miko or Levi get album guitar solos?

.

She had the rockabilly guitar solo on Let's Pretend We're Married live, I think her When Doves Cry solo on the Parade tour was sharp. I think that version is my favorite too. Alexis De Paris-First Avenue Open rehearsal, Darling Nikki as Prince is humping etc idk

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: