Many ex-Revolutionaries were on the payroll as late as 1989.

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film

=

all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

-

I couldn't agree with you more. Very intersting way to put it.

(My english is limited as it is not my mother tongue, buti believe that's how it was and went ...)

-

I find that bit interesting in what you state right there (bold).

Prince music became more 'feminine' in my opinion, and i mean that in the most positive way - don't get me wrong.

The mutual friendship and love surely had a lot to do with it.

Plus he mature on many levels, away from his very young rude boy-ish life.

He was opening up to new and curious input by those he had surounded himself with.

Prince never went to art school, had his own unique style and his 'blackness art 'n feel (or approach as you will)'.

And it was very innovative with a sort of unseen and daring blend.

The kind of visuality that makes art appealing and progressive.

Very unique in the pop and rock scene iin the first half of the 80's.

So he was interested in what was brought along by those around him, and that came mostly from women - as we all know.

But I can't agree on the 'feel' that he 'openened the floodgates too much' for them.

It was a natrual process the way it went.

Not to forget he grew enormously after that, it made him become the guy that dusted off all the W&L input on the SOTT songs.

But he remained the new grown somehow more sensitive guy - he just erased the pain of those collaborations. That's obvious at least ot me.

The only song on SOTT (It's Gonna Be A Beaituful Night) did not really fit on SOTT (to me. W

we're all use to it by now).

As if he felt he could not let it go - so it became a possibly thank you to The Revolution.

But he still had to change details in the studio, have Sheila rapping on it and so on.

(Listen and compare the original recording of the Paris performance)

It's a very interesting song in many ways. A very good song too, still a bit weird on the SOTT album to me.

(It grew so much on me, i can't listen to the album without it anymore of course.)

I feel your approach in the story of how Prince conceived The Revolution for future plans, and possibly for a longer period of time.

-

Your crossed-out sentence also has a reason why all this happened in the mid-1980s:
rap and street-driven pop music was already in the making, and came together strongly.

Not to forget the agressive rise fo the ready-made music industry popbands machinery by slink producers that were in the making;

Bros

Milli Vanilli,

Stock Aitken & Waterman

etc.

-

[Edited 11/6/20 1:54am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Another factor I just considered is I dont think hed have wanted to be around old musicians He would not want to get old with the same band Hed prefer to get new blood in year in year out

-

Old Musicians...

They were all in their twenties!

-

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

A lot of this makes sense but I don't know about the bolded part, its' very much putting Prince up as this god-like figure, deigning to bestow gifts upon lesser beings. I know there's certainly some people on here who have opined that he was an angel sent to earth and all that but he was just a confused guy in his 20s who happened to have talent to burn and had worked hard to ensure he was in the right situation to use his talents.

Not "release-worthy" is either a commercial consideration, which has nothing to do with quality, or a purely personal take on what does and does not constitute a good song and I've certainly rarely agreed with your opinions on the quality of Prince songs.

I always see those 1986 songs as Prince exploring an idea, obviously pushed there by who was around him, it wasn't where he wanted to go circa 1987 and clearly felt the Revolution weren't going to follow him where he did want to go but that doesn't mean he didn't put his heart and soul into those 1986 songs.

[Edited 11/6/20 2:08am]

jaawwnn said:

jaawwnn said:

imprimis said:

Greg Brooks' & Wally Safford's influence + spurred by criticism in the media the previous year, an unevenly received exchanging rock god status for a soul band revue frontman act (with a rough landing, by abandoning the Minneapolis sound about a year sooner than perhaps would have been in his longer-term career and financial interests) + his own stylistic challenges in adapting to rapidly shifting currents in commercial music in the latter part of the mid-1980s, which he appears to deny and distract himself from by indulging in "art pop" delittantism and back-to-basics homages to the idols of his youth (in which process he may have opened the floodgates to too much Coleman/Melvoin involvement) + the failure/underperformance of UTCM/Parade + infidelities and an increasingly acrimonious relationship with Susannah Melvoin + his desire to replace Bobby Z with Sheila for several years + the continued temptation of pursuing a dual career in film = all brought to bear that his backing band had outlived its polite fiction of being billed as true collaborators on every level. With Paisley Park getting closer to completion, and in light of declining sales, the WB corporatocracy also likely prodded a bit for a 'refresh' as a producer, and a fortified brand as simply 'Prince', to refocus him and walk him back from the excesses.

.

Bobby Z recounts 'trouble in Paradise' even before the often repeated airport incident.

.

Going into 1986, I don't believe he had serious plans (deep within) for 'the Revolution' to remain after touring beyond one more major (post-Parade) album release.

.

I believe some of the W&L-heavy tracks from early and mid-1986 were recorded as "going away gifts" (of varying and often marginal quality), for a firing he knew would come within the intermediate future; he gave them a moment to shine, and it would be something for his former backing partners to reflect back on in the experience; when push came to shove, many of these were not release-worthy for an artist of his stature at the time, and he had to have known it; the personal tensions and commercial pressures just expedited this decision by about 6-12 months.

.

However, that isn't to say that he was always better off with his revamped sound and refashioned image, in the immediate aftermath of breaking up.

.

Other groups popular 1981-1985 disbanded for good around this time (Wham, Culture Club, Thompson Twins, etc).

.

1986, in general, was a 'Great Reset' year where the surviving conventions from the first half of 1980s died a full death.

.

[Edited 11/5/20 19:15pm]

A lot of this makes sense but I don't know about the bolded part, its' very much putting Prince up as this god-like figure, deigning to bestow gifts upon lesser beings. I know there's certainly some people on here who have opined that he was an angel sent to earth and all that but he was just a confused guy in his 20s who happened to have talent to burn and had worked hard to ensure he was in the right situation to use his talents.

Not "release-worthy" is either a commercial consideration, which has nothing to do with quality, or a purely personal take on what does and does not constitute a good song and I've certainly rarely agreed with your opinions on the quality of Prince songs.

I always see those 1986 songs as Prince exploring an idea, obviously pushed there by who was around him, it wasn't where he wanted to go circa 1987 and clearly felt the Revolution weren't going to follow him where he did want to go but that doesn't mean he didn't put his heart and soul into those 1986 songs.

[Edited 11/6/20 2:08am]

-

"he was just a confused guy in his 20s who happened to have talent to burn and had worked hard to ensure he was in the right situation to use his talents."

Eaxactly that.

-

"I always see those 1986 songs as Prince exploring an idea."

It's true. He had no real direction or plan.

'Dream Factory' and 'Crystal Ball' just came together while all these tremendous recordings occured.

And kept going on and on, and as a result of many things happening at the same time, 'SOTT' was derived from all this. At lest that's what I believe.

-

Another thing. I don't think it is a question wether The Revolution was about to follow him or not in his new goings, he just dragged in new people without consultation.

Bang there they were!... in rehearsals and on stage ! It's being said and told by members of The Revolution over and over.

He had the right to do that of course - but it says a lot about Prince's ability to communicate with these so called very good friends of his (band)... he was very close with as we know.

-

[Edited 11/6/20 2:34am]

LoveGalore said:

The answer is all in the podcast. Wendy (and Lisa) considered Prince's direction to be regressive. What was the thing she said? That prince needed to be hot and she was like, "ummm wat no we are doing super serious adult music now!!1!1!1!" They really thought that they had worked their relationship into something much more than it really was. They thought because The Revolution was on the spine of the album and they helped with a couple of songs they were all of a sudden on equal footing to Prince. But this isn't so. And him putting The Revolution name to bed was the most respectful thing he could do in that separation. He didn't have to. And him letting them work on songs you know damn fucking well would never have been released (Eggplant, Nevaeh etc,) was him training his employees. Listen to how he directs them on Power Fantastic. He was in control, forever and ever. Yes he wanted them all to feel comfortable and part of it and at home. Because they were all those things. They just weren't the star. They were never on the record deal. They were always engaged in work for hire. And it was only 3 fucking years worth of that.

Why you don't like Eggplant? it's such a crazy quirky little ditty resembling All My Dreams

Prince always worked on songs he knew damn well he would never release.

a lyrical response by 0+> that shows his dispanding Wendy & Lisa was an intimate thing, not business. And it is my belief that this sentiment extends to the Revolution and the Time. When he said in 1998 that the people in his camp/bands in that 80s period was a 'Community ie family' How we look at his relationship with this group of people vs later group/NPG is not the same. Most of these people he know in various was 'Before fame' or before 'Hollywood' kicked in. There is no one anyone who came after 87 was not going to see Prince as a CELEBRITY and Boss.

.

To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day you went away

How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the...

In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How did we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How did we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
I scream

In this bed I scream

When I heard these lyrics, my mind took me to the 1990 interview when he was talking about his break with W&L and his relationship with the Time as well. Very relationship directed, not business.

.
.
Oh my la-di-da-da
Wally, where'd U get those glasses?
Those R the freakiest glasses 've ever seen
Can try 'em on?
U C, 'm goin' 2 a party 2night
& could B so clean
R U goin' with that same dame?
U know, the 1 with the beautiful chest & the gorgeous mouth
Cuz if U R, was wonderin' if she had a sister
Cuz Wally, that dame is so fine
Eeh-ooh!

Check it out, Wally!
Huh, {growl}, 'm on the prowl 2night
Cuz my baby don't love me no more
She said, she said...
"Well maybe do, just not like did b4"

Ain't that a trip, Wally?
U know, 'd give her all my money
B4 'd give it all 2 Uncle Sam
Can U believe it?
Wally, where'd U get those glasses?
Those R the freakiest glasses 've ever seen
Ooh
Wally, can U tell me Y did my baby leave?
La-la-la-di-da, oh my la-di-da

Wally, c'mon, go out with me 2night
We'll tear it up like we used 2 do
U wanna bring ur lady - it's alright
But if U'd rather stay at home 2night - it's cool
No no, understand
We'll B able 2 hook up sometime when find another
Then the 4 of us, mean the 4 of us can
Ooh
Oh my la-di-da

It's 2 late 4 sympathy
Whatever will B will B
'm goin' 2 a party
& if don't find somebody
Somebody will find me!
Huh, what am gonna do?!
She was the only 1 N the whole world that I could talk 2

Wally, where'd U get those glasses?
Those R the freakiest glasses 've ever seen
Ooh
La-la-la-di-da, oh my la-di-da
Ooh
La-la-la-di-da, oh my la-di-da {repeat}
Ooh...
Oh my la-di-da
.
Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.

"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?"

But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.

Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers

No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.

If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.

"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept.
.

Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings.

From what I remember from the podcasts and various interviews over the years, Wendy asked for a raise for the band. He said no. W&L quit the band. Prince had Bobby convince them to stay for the Parade tour, they did. W&L got into an major argurment with Prince in July (not sure if I have the time right on this.) ?? W&L noticed a distance with them from Prince on stage and in person after. By the last show when he smashed his guitar they knew it was over. He fired W, L, & B, soon after and asked Matt and Mark to stay. Mark decided to go solo, and Matt of course stayed.

Also, I didn't record the live shows where I've seen Wendy play great solo's...one W&L shows back in 90 at the Park West in Chicago and two Revolution shows (one at the Metro the other at Park West). But from my ears she was amazing.

Another song of Prince dealing with loss(and gain): Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis, the Time, Morris Day, Vanity, Big Chick

.

.

The sun set n the west this mornin'
4 I know, I know L.A. is callin'
Bad news, Steve said, and people r talkin'
They say ur kingdom is fallin', yeah
They say U lost ur fire
When another musician U hire
Little do they know U wouldn't have passed go
Unless they could take U higher

The sun set n my heart this afternoon
4 2 friends of mine got stuck n the snow
N Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh
Cocaine becomes charmin'
But U talk about things U don't know
I... I know no matter how pleasant ur past was
Green and white return 2 blue
U're happy as long as ur last buzz
And then U think U want somethin' new, yes

The sun, the sun set n my mind this evenin'
4 someone who said they would die 4 me
Sold some, they sold some old pictures and all my little memories
Chump change is 2 unravel the mystery, haha
But life is no fun, life ain't no fun without fantasy
Some things r better left unsaid
And some people r better left untrusted
Maybe, maybe, maybe it'll all make sense when I'm dead
When I'm dead

Old friends 4 sale
Get 'em while the gettin' is hot
Watch out, they'll kiss U until they get what U got
And they'll show U the friends that they're not
Old friends 4 sale

.

thebanishedone said:

LoveGalore said:

The answer is all in the podcast. Wendy (and Lisa) considered Prince's direction to be regressive. What was the thing she said? That prince needed to be hot and she was like, "ummm wat no we are doing super serious adult music now!!1!1!1!" They really thought that they had worked their relationship into something much more than it really was. They thought because The Revolution was on the spine of the album and they helped with a couple of songs they were all of a sudden on equal footing to Prince. But this isn't so. And him putting The Revolution name to bed was the most respectful thing he could do in that separation. He didn't have to. And him letting them work on songs you know damn fucking well would never have been released (Eggplant, Nevaeh etc,) was him training his employees. Listen to how he directs them on Power Fantastic. He was in control, forever and ever. Yes he wanted them all to feel comfortable and part of it and at home. Because they were all those things. They just weren't the star. They were never on the record deal. They were always engaged in work for hire. And it was only 3 fucking years worth of that.

Why you don't like Eggplant? it's such a crazy quirky little ditty resembling All My Dreams

I love Eggplant. I played it for a purple buddy, when I first got it and he lost his mind.

It could have been a Kiss Bside type.
I prefer the one with Wendy & Prince talking back in forth. The one with just Prince looses the conversation piece energy

LoveGalore said:

The answer is all in the podcast. Wendy (and Lisa) considered Prince's direction to be regressive. What was the thing she said? That prince needed to be hot and she was like, "ummm wat no we are doing super serious adult music now!!1!1!1!" They really thought that they had worked their relationship into something much more than it really was. They thought because The Revolution was on the spine of the album and they helped with a couple of songs they were all of a sudden on equal footing to Prince. But this isn't so. And him putting The Revolution name to bed was the most respectful thing he could do in that separation. He didn't have to. And him letting them work on songs you know damn fucking well would never have been released (Eggplant, Nevaeh etc,) was him training his employees. Listen to how he directs them on Power Fantastic. He was in control, forever and ever. Yes he wanted them all to feel comfortable and part of it and at home. Because they were all those things. They just weren't the star. They were never on the record deal. They were always engaged in work for hire. And it was only 3 fucking years worth of that.

This sorta connects with the thread about [What made Prince compromise with his art?]

.

Power Fantastic is also a composition by Lisa and Wendy.

.

Outside of some after shows in Europe I don't think most people will remember 1990s Prince for the creative musicianship. Lovesexy suffers from that too. It's why I can listen to the Black album over and over but have to situate myself to listen to Lovesexy.

lovesexy was his greatest tour.

most ambitious, most costly, but just flat out, his best.

an incredible undertaking.

i know alan leeds thinks it was crazy, and a money drain, but at least it was for a good project.

history will be in princes favour for that tour.

i love eggplant so much, even though i hate wendy's speaking voice on that. she sounds so full of herself.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

lovesexy was his greatest tour.

most ambitious, most costly, but just flat out, his best.

an incredible undertaking.

i know alan leeds thinks it was crazy, and a money drain, but at least it was for a good project.

history will be in princes favour for that tour.

i love eggplant so much, even though i hate wendy's speaking voice on that. she sounds so full of herself.

Yes It was his greatest tour, even though I prefer the SOTT stage set up.

It felt like a beginning of an ending tour. Something in the air.

They literally had a river with a boat to add to it. But after first trials realized the dangers of water and electrical equipment.

.

She's supposed to sound like that. Those are the characters. She's representing women who chastise men for only thinking with their little heads.

that version should have been on the SOTT SDE.

the song makes no sense without that back and forth between them.

without her, its just a guide vocal version.

thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

i also wanna know why this period is considered so experimental and good? lol the 2 aren't synonomous. just because you make a bunch of shit that doesn't sound like anything else doesn't mean it's actually good. hence why most of all of it never came out to begin with.

This "highly collaborative" period is extremely overblown. They finished things, remixed things, etc. The whole sitting in the studio so much and co writing together has been embellished as if he needed them or as if they had so much input. Listen to the soundchecks and rehearsals and that blows that myth out the window. Prince was calling the shots, giving cues, making the setlists, augmenting the band with dancers and an extra guitarist and horns when HE saw fit. What exactly did they do and have say on/with? Were they picking album tracklists? No. They were barely on the albums that had their names on it. Bringing up 1 song he made in 1996 after they did a whole album about him in 1987 is pushing it. Bringing them back occasionally for a few appearances in the early 2000's is also a stretch.

Prince didn't need anybody. He didn't look back very often. He made that clear.

"get off it" as he would say in the Purple Rain movie

Prince said he didn't like the term experimental.

And 99% of it was/is wonderful and uniquely Purple Music

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

This sorta connects with the thread about [What made Prince compromise with his art?]

.

Power Fantastic is also a composition by Lisa and Wendy.

.

Outside of some after shows in Europe I don't think most people will remember 1990s Prince for the creative musicianship. Lovesexy suffers from that too. It's why I can listen to the Black album over and over but have to situate myself to listen to Lovesexy.

Yeah but his material in the 90s really is much better than people give it credit for. It does hit different, certainly Lovesexy hits different. But since you did bring up Lovesexy, look at what the SOTT SDE shows us. Most of the stuff he waa doing on his own sounds much more like Lovesexy than it does Parade. I look at something like "When the Dawn..." as being very very indicative of where his mind was headed after the tour. It was him going back to where he was before the Revolution was a thing, and then working that out. He got his cake and ate it too. It's a different sensibility for sure, but Lovesexy is probably closer to Prince's own style and heart than whatever was on Dream Factory (which really feels like a further exploration of Parade than very forward thinking). And while I don't necessarily think Lovesexy is more advanced or interesting in the same ways DF is, I still dig Prince being fully Prince to anything else.

I'm not saying it's bad, I just don't think it has that IT factor, like stuff from 1978-1989

Listening to Neurotic Lovers Bedroom and just blown away,
1981 Tick Tick Bang vs 1990s

Even how the Prince & the Time connection synergy just not there in 1990

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

This sorta connects with the thread about [What made Prince compromise with his art?]

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Power Fantastic is also a composition by Lisa and Wendy.

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Outside of some after shows in Europe I don't think most people will remember 1990s Prince for the creative musicianship. Lovesexy suffers from that too. It's why I can listen to the Black album over and over but have to situate myself to listen to Lovesexy.

Yeah but his material in the 90s really is much better than people give it credit for. It does hit different, certainly Lovesexy hits different. But since you did bring up Lovesexy, look at what the SOTT SDE shows us. Most of the stuff he waa doing on his own sounds much more like Lovesexy than it does Parade. I look at something like "When the Dawn..." as being very very indicative of where his mind was headed after the tour. It was him going back to where he was before the Revolution was a thing, and then working that out. He got his cake and ate it too. It's a different sensibility for sure, but Lovesexy is probably closer to Prince's own style and heart than whatever was on Dream Factory (which really feels like a further exploration of Parade than very forward thinking). And while I don't necessarily think Lovesexy is more advanced or interesting in the same ways DF is, I still dig Prince being fully Prince to anything else.

'When the Dawn of the Morning Comes' is probably not the apropos example; I believe it is a reworked ~1982/83-era outtake; aside from the 'soul claps' overdubs (which has led to the comparison to 'The Line' version 1), and Sheila's percussion, it sounds nothing like a 1986 production (analog organ, '1999' chord pattern, post-disco bass, Controversy/1999-style rhythm guitar playing, vintage LM-1 pattern and effects, references to 'Let's Work', etc).

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'It Be's Like That Sometimes' is his firm parting statement (and seems very Wally Safford-inspired); 'Waterfalls ' on W&L (1987) seems to respond directly to it (albeit with some trite and generic lyrics). I wonder whether IBLTS was shared with the any of the parting members at the time?

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[Edited 11/8/20 19:24pm]