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Thread started 09/25/20 6:58am

lurker316

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which bootlegs can we ditch?


Which bootlegs can we ditch now that they've been officially released in high quality on Sign O' the Times Super Deluxe? And which ones do we need to keep?

I did a quick review this morning. Off the top of my head the only ones I need to to keep (i.e. versions missing from this compliation) are Eggplant with Wendy's vocals and Witness pre-overdubs. People might also want to keep a version of Rebirth of the Flesh that segues into The Ball if they want to sequence a version of Crystal Ball.

There are some other bootles I have that differ from whats on SOTT SDE in that they're shorter, but I don't consider that a reason to keep them. I consider the full versions on SOTT SDE to be the definitive versions.

(MODs: I realize there is already a general thread for SOTT SDE edition, but I don't want this topic to get buried in 20-plus pages. There were unique threads on this topic for both Purple Rain Super Deluxe and 1999 Super Deluxe, so there's precedent for having a standalone thread. Please don't merge it.)




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Reply #1 posted 09/25/20 7:03am

Ramzoo

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lurker316 said:


Which bootlegs can we ditch now that they've been officially released in high quality on Sign O' the Times Super Deluxe? And which ones do we need to keep?

I did a quick review this morning. Off the top of my head the only ones I need to to keep (i.e. versions missing from this compliation) are Eggplant with Wendy's vocals and Witness pre-overdubs. People might also want to keep a version of Rebirth of the Flesh that segues into The Ball if they want to sequence a version of Crystal Ball.

There are some other bootles I have that differ from whats on SOTT SDE in that they're shorter, but I don't consider that a reason to keep them. I consider the full versions on SOTT SDE to be the definitive versions.

(MODs: I realize there is already a general thread for SOTT SDE edition, but I don't want this topic to get buried in 20-plus pages. There were unique threads on this topic for both Purple Rain Super Deluxe and 1999 Super Deluxe, so there's precedent for having a standalone thread. Please don't merge it.)




Don't we have to keep "The Cocoa Boys", "Strange Relationship" & "Wally". First that comes to mind. Great release that I need still to absorb...Defintely a good job from the Estate & Michael Howe. No complaints at all.

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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Reply #2 posted 09/25/20 7:13am

mbdtyler

Hold on to "Power Fantastic" as well. The live-in-studio take is interesting but the mix is noticeably different and he definitely made the right call in rerecording vocals later.

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Reply #3 posted 09/25/20 7:23am

LoveGalore

You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses.

The rest is probably worth keeping.
[Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]
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Reply #4 posted 09/25/20 7:23am

lurker316

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Ramzoo said:

Don't we have to keep "The Cocoa Boys", "Strange Relationship" & "Wally". First that comes to mind. Great release that I need still to absorb...Defintely a good job from the Estate & Michael Howe. No complaints at all.


What are different about those?


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Reply #5 posted 09/25/20 7:24am

LoveGalore

lurker316 said:



Ramzoo said:






Don't we have to keep "The Cocoa Boys", "Strange Relationship" & "Wally". First that comes to mind. Great release that I need still to absorb...Defintely a good job from the Estate & Michael Howe. No complaints at all.




What are different about those?




The circulating leak of Cocoa Boys is stripped down and def a very early rough mix. Keep it if you like the options.

The other two are definitely the same - with SR being an edit.
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Reply #6 posted 09/25/20 7:37am

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said:


What are different about those?


The circulating leak of Cocoa Boys is stripped down and def a very early rough mix. Keep it if you like the options. The other two are definitely the same - with SR being an edit.


Thanks. I just took a closer listen to Cocoa Boys and now I see what you mean. They're very different. Not sure how I missed that the first time.

I realized the Strange Relationship bootleg was an edit -- but based on the post above I thought I might have been missing something else. I think there are a few other songs on this box set that are longer than the circulating bootlegs, but as I mentioned in my initial post, I'm not overly concerned about those.



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Reply #7 posted 09/25/20 9:28am

billymeade

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I just deleted at least 24 copies of "All My Dreams". That thing showed up in almost every boot for 30 years.
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Reply #8 posted 09/25/20 10:12am

TrivialPursuit

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billymeade said:

I just deleted at least 24 copies of "All My Dreams". That thing showed up in almost every boot for 30 years.


This, and "Moonbeam Levels." Both are top faves, but all those shittastic copies I have are gone.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #9 posted 09/25/20 10:23am

LoveGalore

lurker316 said:



LoveGalore said:


lurker316 said:



What are different about those?




The circulating leak of Cocoa Boys is stripped down and def a very early rough mix. Keep it if you like the options. The other two are definitely the same - with SR being an edit.


Thanks. I just took a closer listen to Cocoa Boys and now I see what you mean. They're very different. Not sure how I missed that the first time.

I realized the Strange Relationship bootleg was an edit -- but based on the post above I thought I might have been missing something else. I think there are a few other songs on this box set that are longer than the circulating bootlegs, but as I mentioned in my initial post, I'm not overly concerned about those.





I think some people claim the poor quality SR we have had comes with W&L vocals. I don't hear that, though it wouldn't surprise me. They're the same song though - so if it is on the outtake, it's on this as well.
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Reply #10 posted 09/25/20 11:29am

lurker316

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TrivialPursuit said:

billymeade said:

I just deleted at least 24 copies of "All My Dreams". That thing showed up in almost every boot for 30 years.


This, and "Moonbeam Levels." Both are top faves, but all those shittastic copies I have are gone.


Several of my bootlegs copies of All My Dreams were great quality. In fact, they were some of the highest quality boots I had. That being the case, I felt bad deleting them. I just filed them away in an archive folder.






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Reply #11 posted 09/25/20 1:24pm

dualboot

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billymeade said:

I just deleted at least 24 copies of "All My Dreams". That thing showed up in almost every boot for 30 years.


If you have the one from foefur maybe keep that one. More Clarity in the highs.

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Reply #12 posted 09/25/20 1:44pm

TwiliteKid

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LoveGalore said:

You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses. The rest is probably worth keeping. [Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]

I haven't actually compared, but I feel like there are some extra organ parts on the official release of Fat Lady Sings, so you might want to hold on to that one too.

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Reply #13 posted 09/25/20 2:01pm

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses. The rest is probably worth keeping. [Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]


In addition to the ones you list, what about these? They all sound the same to me, but maybe I haven't listened to them close enough:

- Adonis & Bathsheba
- I Need A Man
- Jealous Girl
- Neveh Ni Ecalp A
- Power Fantastic
- Rebirth of the Flash (version with clean exit)
- Teacher, Teacher (1985 version... actually both versions since the other is on 1999 SDE)
- The Ball
- Visions
- When the Dawn of the Morning Comes
- Wondeful Day



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Reply #14 posted 09/25/20 2:18pm

TwiliteKid

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lurker316 said:

LoveGalore said:

You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses. The rest is probably worth keeping. [Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]


In addition to the ones you list, what about these? They all sound the same to me, but maybe I haven't listened to them close enough:

- Adonis & Bathsheba
- I Need A Man
- Jealous Girl
- Neveh Ni Ecalp A
- Power Fantastic
- Rebirth of the Flash (version with clean exit)
- Teacher, Teacher (1985 version... actually both versions since the other is on 1999 SDE)
- The Ball
- Visions
- When the Dawn of the Morning Comes
- Wondeful Day




Are you saying you already had When The Dawn of the Morning Comes?

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Reply #15 posted 09/25/20 3:15pm

lurker316

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TwiliteKid said:

Are you saying you already had When The Dawn of the Morning Comes?



I have a song labeled "When the Dawn of the Morning Comes" that I got from a bootleg compilation, but I guess I somehow hadn't listened to it until now. I just played it. It's an instrumental and doesn't sound much like the version on SOTT SDE, so I believe it's a different song.

When I was reviewing that song I also realized I have an instrumental version of "I Need a Man". It's definitely the same music, just no lyrics.



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Reply #16 posted 09/25/20 3:19pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

lurker316 said:


Which bootlegs can we ditch now that they've been officially released in high quality on Sign O' the Times Super Deluxe? And which ones do we need to keep?

I did a quick review this morning. Off the top of my head the only ones I need to to keep (i.e. versions missing from this compliation) are Eggplant with Wendy's vocals and Witness pre-overdubs. People might also want to keep a version of Rebirth of the Flesh that segues into The Ball if they want to sequence a version of Crystal Ball.



There are some other bootles I have that differ from whats on SOTT SDE in that they're shorter, but I don't consider that a reason to keep them. I consider the full versions on SOTT SDE to be the definitive versions.

(MODs: I realize there is already a general thread for SOTT SDE edition, but I don't want this topic to get buried in 20-plus pages. There were unique threads on this topic for both Purple Rain Super Deluxe and 1999 Super Deluxe, so there's precedent for having a standalone thread. Please don't merge it.)









There is still a place for CB boots just for ROTF and having it all properly sequenced.
Though I've yet to find a boot with consistent sound quality that sounds like it really is all from the same source
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Reply #17 posted 09/25/20 3:28pm

LoveGalore

lurker316 said:



LoveGalore said:


You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses. The rest is probably worth keeping. [Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]


In addition to the ones you list, what about these? They all sound the same to me, but maybe I haven't listened to them close enough:

- Adonis & Bathsheba
- I Need A Man
- Jealous Girl
- Neveh Ni Ecalp A
- Power Fantastic
- Rebirth of the Flash (version with clean exit)
- Teacher, Teacher (1985 version... actually both versions since the other is on 1999 SDE)
- The Ball
- Visions
- When the Dawn of the Morning Comes
- Wondeful Day





Adonis is slightly different - enough that I would probably end up keeping mine. One, it starts with a drum stick intro. Two, the vocal mix is noticeably different with Prince's lead vocal more upfront in the bootleg version. YMMV.

I would keep your file labeled Nevaeh etc because as far as I know that is what we thought the intro to Dream Factory was. Clearly that intro was fit for purpose somehow. Maybe the liner notes will explain more (I haven't opened my box yet).
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Reply #18 posted 09/25/20 4:08pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Are the spectral-revealed lossy tracks worth saving? Any evidence that they pressed old bootleg MP3s to disc or are these cassettes/inferior tape sources?

Hoffman forums sez:

on disc 4, "Can I Play with U?" is 100% for sure lossy, "Strange Relationship" shows signs of lossy artifacts particularly the top and tail, "Visions" either from a rough-sounding cassette transfer or lossy file, "Colors" definitely looks to be lossy. Moving to disc 5, "Train" has definite lossy artifacts, ditto "It Be's Like That Sometimes". On disc 6 "Rebirth of the Flesh (original outro)" and "A Place in Heaven (Lisa vocal)" do too

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Reply #19 posted 09/25/20 9:36pm

databank

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APIH (prince) is a new mix so you shouldn't ditch the boot as suggested above.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #20 posted 09/26/20 5:44am

MIInsane

You gotta keep the boot version of "Wonderful Day" as well.
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Reply #21 posted 09/26/20 6:20am

lurker316

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databank said:

APIH (prince) is a new mix so you shouldn't ditch the boot as suggested above.


Oh yeah, the version on SOTT SDE is missing the spoken word intro about listening to environmental records. I'm not sure how I missed that.



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Reply #22 posted 09/26/20 6:22am

lurker316

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MIInsane said:

You gotta keep the boot version of "Wonderful Day" as well.



I see... the version on SOTT SDE appears to be Prince only. They stripped Wendy & Lisa's background vocals.


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Reply #23 posted 09/26/20 6:39am

LoveGalore

lurker316 said:



MIInsane said:


You gotta keep the boot version of "Wonderful Day" as well.



I see... the version on SOTT SDE appears to be Prince only. They stripped Wendy & Lisa's background vocals.




The extended version is the version with Wendy etc.
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Reply #24 posted 09/26/20 6:40am

LoveGalore

lurker316 said:



databank said:


APIH (prince) is a new mix so you shouldn't ditch the boot as suggested above.


Oh yeah, the version on SOTT SDE is missing the spoken word intro about listening to environmental records. I'm not sure how I missed that.





One might argue that the spoken word bit is the outro for Movie Star.
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Reply #25 posted 09/26/20 7:43am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

lurker316 said:

MIInsane said:

You gotta keep the boot version of "Wonderful Day" as well.



I see... the version on SOTT SDE appears to be Prince only. They stripped Wendy & Lisa's background vocals.


this is all part of the estate's evil plan to remove as many traces of their involvement from these releases as possible. they are allowed to do interviews about working with prince, but their vocals are removed to play their involvement down. i expect the eggplant version with wendy on vocals will never see the light of day.

razz

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Reply #26 posted 09/26/20 7:50am

lurker316

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LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said:

I see... the version on SOTT SDE appears to be Prince only. They stripped Wendy & Lisa's background vocals.

The extended version is the version with Wendy etc.



Yeah, the extended version has Wendy's vocals. But in addition to just being longer than the bootleg, it also sounds like it's a different mix relative to the bootleg -- particularly the intro. Or is that just me?


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Reply #27 posted 09/26/20 8:24am

mb71

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The only time I would delete anything would be if:

A. I was short on space.

B. I could be arsed going through it all to delete individual tracks.

C. There is no C.

Formerly TheDigitalGardener etc.
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Reply #28 posted 09/26/20 8:49am

Ramzoo

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LoveGalore said:

You can toss out your copy of Everybody Want What They Don't Got, Fat Lady Sings, Wally, Cosmic Day, All My Dreams, Can I Play With U? (That specific mix, as several exist), Train, Emotional Pump, Large Room, APIH (both), Strange Relationship, both those Witnesses. The rest is probably worth keeping. [Edited 9/25/20 7:23am]

I keep "All My Dreams" from Charade as it is sequenced with "Old Friends 4 Sale". The one from DF is deleted.

By the way, I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy of this release! I won't buy the vinyl version because I don't have a record player/it's too heavy but i acknowledge the good packaging. Even the cartboard is great (I'll keep the one from the CD version).

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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Reply #29 posted 09/26/20 8:51am

Ramzoo

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MIInsane said:

You gotta keep the boot version of "Wonderful Day" as well.

Right as it is totally different.

"Money won't buy U happiness but it'll pay 4 the search."
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