gandorb said:

I must have missed the interpersonal conflicts prior to this thread, because I didn't get how quieckly the thread went South. With all that is going on in the world and even on the org I don't get why the OP is so triggereing. I stand by this even if I totally disagree with part of it. Overall, I liked the variety of the last 4 albums, and think that AOA and HnR2 showed promise for his future if there would have been one.

Plectum was uneven and rather mediocre except for a few songs. It is hard to dismiss the Plectum era given how good much of the material was when it was in concert.

AOA - It is perhaps my favorite post-80s album. It is definitely the Prince album I played the most since Gold was released. I think it reflected the work of a artist who was maturing emotionally, which made it special to me.

HnR1 - A train wreck that still had some good songs, and the bad songs are so bad that they are almost good in some cheese Mac way.

HnR2 - Despite it being a complilation in some ways, I think it coheres really well as a fully realized album. It is his second best studio album this century IMO. The horn arrangements are great. Totally agree with your assessment of most of the songs. I actually cried when I heard Revelation for the first time, which was shortly after he died. Such a brilliant song that is unique in his discography.

Thanks Gandorb. I really apprecaite the comments.

The only person truly triggered in this thread has decided to quadruple down over and over again vs show any signs of introspection and decency.

Not sure why he has a bee in his bonnet. But that seems to be par for the course looking at his other posts on other threads. So perhaps it's not too suprising....

I see so many people heaping praise on AOA and it's really a strange thing for me that my revisiting the album was such a negative experience. The songs just don't resonate with me on any level. As Emma mentioned, it just feels like auto-pilot has been engaged. (Aforementioned tracks excluded). Yet I see so many folks say it's a great album/his best of the 2000s etc. Such a strange disconnect for me.


In any event, thanks again for sharing your thoughts. So glad to see Revelation speaking to many people!

For what it's worth I don't think there's a below 8/10 for any official CD release. Best not to review an album if not in a great mood though... AOA a 2/10 wtf?! I did that, while back listening to the mid-00s stuff and it sounded even more brickwalled than it actually was, and so I rated those albums bit worse than otherwise would. Still, I think there's a reason why chocolate invasion, the slaughterhouse and xpectation remained MP3 releases when the original intention was to release them on CD.

databank said:

I'd assume RJorion was having a bad day but that, besides this, his point was that if you don't have something particularly insightful or original to say about an album, if it's just a matter of expressing a personal opinion that is of little interest to anyone and that, before the internet, was quickly silenced, it's better to keep it for yourself. This might be the expression of a very real difference of approach between different people regarding the internet in general and the Org in particular. Some of us believe it would be better for the Org to be a forum for elite reviewers, analysts and other knowledgeable people to discuss serious topics seriously, and that regular people are better off reading it than contributing. Others believe that this should be an open space for anyone to say anything because it's their prerogative and because they enjoy reading everyone's opinion a'and debating with everyone even if there are few real arguments in the debate. Vertical vs. Horizontal. Elitism vs. Democratic discussion. Should the Org be an assembly of experts conferring or a bar where anyone can come and discuss Prince over a beer? I don't have an answer for this. But until there are 2 distinct boards, this will always be s source of tension between members.

Hi Databank


Your post is rather confusing to me. This thread was my simple and feeble attempt at stimulating a discussion around Prince's last four albums before he passed away. I had not listened to them in half a decade. I shared my views/experiences. Some of them were quite negative. Others, quite positive. Only one person has been hostile thus far. (And rather incessantly so).


Whether I write for Rolling Stone or Mad Libs, I'm not sure why someone being so needlessly rude is even worthy of contemplating their motivations. If I was an "elite reviewer," but hated the material, does that make it less worthy a critique?


Or if I'm Joe Blow from Idaho, but I'm bestowing immeasureable praise, does that make it more worthy?


Either way, coming into a thread where there is quite obviously no intention of starting hostility, and being addressed by someone in such a classlessly juevenille manner as he did is never defensible, in my opinion. He also seems to think that my contempt for his approach is my own short coming. I'm apparently too thin skinned.

Whereas, here's a more simple and practical solution. If you don't like what I've written, just turn the page and move along. Isn't that much easier than tossing off handed barbs at someone?


Far moreso than the loose structure you have outlined, I think the far greater problem in these forums is that bulllies and trolls are allowed to canvas the landscape at will instead of being tossed out on their behinds until they learn some manners. My post was a genuine, heartfelt refelction of one of my heroes. Not a troll bashing session meant to incite fury.


I don't come to the Org very often anymore. Ironically enough, it's usually because of unprovoked garbage like this that's just not worth my time.


Either way. No matter. You've been around these parts a long time and I've always found you to be an engaging, well spoken, invaluable, super friendly member of the org. Whether we agree or disagree on this particular issue for whatever reason, I wish you well.

Phase3 said:

databank said:

I'd assume RJorion was having a bad day but that, besides this, his point was that if you don't have something particularly insightful or original to say about an album, if it's just a matter of expressing a personal opinion that is of little interest to anyone and that, before the internet, was quickly silenced, it's better to keep it for yourself. This might be the expression of a very real difference of approach between different people regarding the internet in general and the Org in particular. Some of us believe it would be better for the Org to be a forum for elite reviewers, analysts and other knowledgeable people to discuss serious topics seriously, and that regular people are better off reading it than contributing. Others believe that this should be an open space for anyone to say anything because it's their prerogative and because they enjoy reading everyone's opinion a'and debating with everyone even if there are few real arguments in the debate. Vertical vs. Horizontal. Elitism vs. Democratic discussion. Should the Org be an assembly of experts conferring or a bar where anyone can come and discuss Prince over a beer? I don't have an answer for this. But until there are 2 distinct boards, this will always be s source of tension between members.

I know I have only been here since the month Prince died, but it never has even occurred to me that anyone came here to read elite reviewers. I never have been tempted to use the barf emoji before, but this elite reviewer concept in a public forum is laughable. I am not at laughing at you, as I have respected many of your posts, but with all the narcissistic types around i guess we have a lot of "elite reviewers" in the mix. I can't imagine someone longing for their special opinions.

RJP1205 said:

gandorb said:

I am not at laughing at you, as I have respected many of your posts, but with all the narcissistic types around i guess we have a lot of "elite reviewers" in the mix. I can't imagine someone longing for their special opinions.

Eh, then you would have an elite in crowd from the elite in crowd anyway. It's nonesense. There's a teritorial crowd from back when a things Prince that weren't on record took work. There are Prince forums where all they do is crap on anyone Prince knew, and crap on Prince fans that join in on the cattiness and character assassination, and they try to bring that ridicule to the org. Few of these people were ever real inner circle types, which is okay, but they still feel some kinda way because they've had a modem and talked Prince for a while.

AOA ....The production is the problem. That and so much of it sounds like it's for other artists. U Know is a good song, but it sounds like a song he should have given to someone else, and the delivery is clumsy. The Gold Standard is fun but it sounds like it would have been a good vault outtake. Too much of it's emulating other artists styles trying to sound current. Breakdown is a song I've grown to love, but ....lasers. Also the lyrics about alcoholism coming from Prince are odd. Affirmation III sounds like it was influenced by the weird Olympic opening ceremonies soundtracks....

But my real question is why did he do FunkNRoll a second time? I mean besides undoing the EDM breakdowns.

One thing about HitNRun and Plecrum...Prince goes back to playing with more layered production and spending time with lots of background harmonies, weird sounds, etc. Screwdriver is a good example of that. It's just that it's too much, and some of it's of questionable taste. Like who thought Extraloveable needed to sound like Trouble Funk?

[Edited 7/29/20 1:26am]

[Edited 7/29/20 1:26am]

There's more good than bad on AOA, I think it's a good pop album that gives Prince's sound a shot of new blood, in a mostly positive way - which is the complete opposite of HnR pt1.

.

I tend agree with the OP's assessment of HnR pt 1&2, I wouldn't be quite so fauning of pt2 but it is a good album and FAR and above pt1 which as a whole is disappointing, but has a strong ending - it's just difficult to get over such a truly repellant first half.

After that HnR pt2 was a definate upswing, but across all the final block of albums there are some welcome moments of lyrical honesty and musical evolution that meant I was excited to see where Prince would've gone after that.

Fenwick said:

As my title suggests, it's been approximately 5 years since this group of his final four albums came out, and I had not given them a proper listening to in quite some time. I thought it might be as good a time as any to dust them off and re-visit them.


From memory, my expectations PRE-listening were as follows:


AOA - 5 out of 10 - A solid, but unspectacular album featuring one mammoth tune (The Gold Standard), and some other decent tracks.


Plectrum - 6 out of 10 - A nice counter balance to AOA, a full band production without a lot of solid songs, but few clunkers.


Hit n Run One - 2 out of 10 - An utterly vapid disgrace with two tunes at the end being moderately bearable.


Hit n Run 2 - 8 out of 10 - An absolutely astounding end to a magical career, featuring at least three songs I would rate as perfect. A real gem of an album.

Then.... I listened......

AOA - new rating = 2 out of 10. I was completely astounded to find this a soulless, lifeless album. There are a LOT of people on the Org communtiy who think this is a great album. And while I don't begrudge them their opinions, this is 100% not what I am looking for in music from anyone, let alone the Mozart of our times.

The opening track was insufferable. A dreadful opener. Clouds got us back on the right track as a nice, if not unspectacular song. Then we got to the Breakdown.

I had forgotten about the lasers!!!!!


I literally spit up my water. Laser beams.... activate!!!!!! Wow. What a disaster. Any atmosphere the song was trying to create was completely decimated by that silliness.


What follows for me, is Prince's last gem from an album outside of HnR2. The Gold Standard. Years ago, I think I referred to this song as the result of post Controversy/Pre 1999 Prince, hooking up with the Black Album Prince and making a baby. It's like a mash up of Turn It Up and SuperFragiCali. It's a totally and completely splendid master work. I wish it went on for 10 minutes.


After that, my ear can tolerate Funk n Roll. Nothing more. It saddens me to say, this album has dated FAR more poorly than I could have ever imagined.


Plectrum - new rating = 3 out of 10 It's funny. I had romanticized this album in my head a bit too much. I distinctly remembered the song Marz and thinking to myself, "this is kind of Prince's modern day Dirty Mind record". Prince is putting a less polished, "garage band" feel to this album as a counter point to AOA.


Man - WAS I WRONG.... First off - the playing on this album was FAR BETTER than I remembered/gave it credit for. In particular, Ida is a BEAST on bass. But the songs just aren't there.


Wow is an interesting, but at times lumbering 6/8 tune that overstays its' welcome. Fixurlife and Funk n Roll are respectable.


But the rest ranges from pedestrian to insufferable. Boy Trouble is just about the worst thing I've heard on a Prince record save for.......


Hit n Run One - 1 out of 10 - I mean - There's nothing to say. This is worse for me than any other album in the catalog except Karmasutra and maybe NPS.


The entire album is based around beats and relies on the rhythms/cadence behind the delivery of the vocals. Melody is absolutely nowhere to be found. A ghastly album from stem to stern. The Emancipation castaway (X and O) is certainly bearable, and June is interesting in that "A Life in the Day" Outkast sort of way.


Which brings us to HnR2. - New rating = 9 out of 10


Now - taking apart each song, this album would rate a little lower. But as a full body of work, (even though I know it's a compilation), it still feels very much like a cohesive album.


The opening track is the only song that flat out doesn't work for me. Perhaps extracting the anthemic chant and the misguided salutation to Michael Brown might make it work a little better for me. But at best, it's an OK song.


Summarizing the good songs: Rock and Roll Love Affair, 2Y2D, Xtralovable, Groovy, Screwdriver and Big City all range somewhere between pedestrian (Groovy) and excellent (Rock and Roll)



That leaves us with four master works:


Stare - 9 out of 10 The delivery of the lyrics, the horn stabs, the chorus. What a magnicient track. The incessant slap bass is the only thing keeping this from receiving a 10 from me.



Look at You, Look at Me - 10 out of 10 - Good Jesus. What a song. The subtlety of the horns. The delivery of the vocals. E-e-e-e-e ven Ray Charles can see (Stevie Wonder can too).. . Master class performance.


Black Muse - 10 out 10 - Two brilliant songs in one. Unlike the on the nose lyrics of Baltimore, this song hits so much harder. So much more uplifting.The mid section/transition to the outro is probably 15 seconds too long. But good heavens when the second part of the song kicks in.... tears of joy



Revelation - His last master work released on an album while he was still with us. Seriously. 1 zillion out of 10. This is a desert island song. Everything about it is p.e.r.f.e.c.t. The sparseness of that guitar solo. There are no words needed.



I will forever be grateful this beyond magical album was released during his lifetime. I've already re-listened to the album three more times.


As for the other three...... I might need another ten years before I can try again!!!!!

I'd love to hear some thoughts if you have recently re-visited this part of his catalog!!!!!

Somewhat agree, but I think you're much to generuos with AOA and HitNRun Phase 1 - Those two records get a solid 0/10 from me. I rather listen to Kamasutra on repeat than those two dated and trying to be 'Hip' garbage albums. There's a reason this Joshua Welton doesn't have a succesful carreer in music He's even worse than Tony M.

lavendardrummachine said:

AOA ....The production is the problem. That and so much of it sounds like it's for other artists. U Know is a good song, but it sounds like a song he should have given to someone else, and the delivery is clumsy. The Gold Standard is fun but it sounds like it would have been a good vault outtake. Too much of it's emulating other artists styles trying to sound current. Breakdown is a song I've grown to love, but ....lasers. Also the lyrics about alcoholism coming from Prince are odd. Affirmation III sounds like it was influenced by the weird Olympic opening ceremonies soundtracks....

But my real question is why did he do FunkNRoll a second time? I mean besides undoing the EDM breakdowns.

One thing about HitNRun and Plecrum...Prince goes back to playing with more layered production and spending time with lots of background harmonies, weird sounds, etc. Screwdriver is a good example of that. It's just that it's too much, and some of it's of questionable taste. Like who thought Extraloveable needed to sound like Trouble Funk?

[Edited 7/29/20 1:26am]

[Edited 7/29/20 1:26am]

Hey Lavender. I 100% agree with your AOA production comments. Even on the Gold Standard, that looped "butt go round" thing is a little goofy. But the core of the song is still titanic for me.

You also brought up "You Know" It's funny. Trying to whittle my original post. You Know was one of the songs I was originally going to bring up but cut because my OP was already long. I agree, there's something to the song. But unlike Gold Standard, the core of the tune isn't strong enough for me to overlook that digitized/processed sound.

The looped "uh - uh-uh" is so entirely derivative. It makes it hard for me to want to do the work, so to speak!

And yes, although I FAR prefer the original Extralovable, and the new chorus sounds a bit like a three ring circus where he has the muppets guesting on backgrounds, (does anyone know if we start singing on the 1 on the upbeat before the 2), the song is still really, realy good IMO. It's undoubtedly far less impactful, but I still dig it!


Enjoyed reading your comments!

NouveauDance said:

There's more good than bad on AOA, I think it's a good pop album that gives Prince's sound a shot of new blood, in a mostly positive way - which is the complete opposite of HnR pt1.

.

I tend agree with the OP's assessment of HnR pt 1&2, I wouldn't be quite so fauning of pt2 but it is a good album and FAR and above pt1 which as a whole is disappointing, but has a strong ending - it's just difficult to get over such a truly repellant first half.

After that HnR pt2 was a definate upswing, but across all the final block of albums there are some welcome moments of lyrical honesty and musical evolution that meant I was excited to see where Prince would've gone after that.

Your honor, in defense of my clients "over-fauning"charge, I submit to the court he had just suffered through three albums that he deemed to be utter shiite and was perhaps a bit over-exuberant!






Hey Nouveau! In all seriousness, I do recognize that breaking down each song on HnR2 would probably result in a lesser score. Seven of the songs range between enjoyable to pretty darn good. But for me, the four gems are so mammoth, and the production across the board was do refreshingly more organic, that it kind of pulls the whole project up for me.

I completely agree. Leaving us on this album definitely had me excited for what was next,,,,,

JorisE73 said:

Somewhat agree, but I think you're much to generuos with AOA and HitNRun Phase 1 - Those two records get a solid 0/10 from me. I rather listen to Kamasutra on repeat than those two dated and trying to be 'Hip' garbage albums. There's a reason this Joshua Welton doesn't have a succesful carreer in music He's even worse than Tony M.

Hahahaha!


Hey Joris! I won't lie. I was reading the credits and actually looked up who Joshua Welton was while listening to HnR part one. I was pretty mad at the whole thing!!!!!


But saying you'd rather listen to Kamasutra???? I wasn't THAT mad!!!! That's some defcon level one mad!!!!!!

[Edited 7/29/20 4:08am]

AOA - 3/10. No soul, no emotion. Sounds over-produced and I stuggle to listen to any of the songs other than Breakfast and This Could Be Us. I've tried to get into it and fail.

.

PE - 6/10 - A bit too rocky for me.

.

HnR 1 - 7/10 - Not a huge fan of Shut This Down or Like a Mack but it just works as an album (although this is against popular opinion) and it's more than the sum of its parts.

.

HnR 2 - 9/10 - Great album. I love listening to it, apart from Screwdriver, which I hate. Don't know why it's not on PE, and I may like it a but better, but it takes away from whole vibe. The last 3 songs are classics.

[Edited 7/29/20 5:20am]

Haha, entertaining reviews, thanks for that!

A recent listen gave me some very similar ideas. PlectrumElectrum wasn't as good as I remembered. Probably because I desperately wanted to love the Prince-hard-rock album. I do think Anotherlove is a fantastic cover. Whitecaps doesn't really fit the album, but it's an overlooked nice song.

I'm a bit more forgiving for AOA, as I like the atmosphere of the suite on the b-side. Too bad they squeezed Funknroll inbetween.

HNR1 is bottom of the barrel, can't say much more about it.

My biggest critisism of Phase2 is that it's suck a mixed bag, it feels like a bunch of songs thrown together without much idea. And it honestly is.

But the songs themselves are just all at least good, although Screwdriver sounds like it's taken from a cassette. But Groovy Potential, Look at Me, Look at U, Black Muse,... Love it! Oh, and that 'That's It!' as his final statement always touches me.

Fenwick said:

Your honor, in defense of my clients "over-fauning"charge, I submit to the court he had just suffered through three albums that he deemed to be utter shiite and was perhaps a bit over-exuberant!

In light of this evidence, which the jury heartily sympathizes with, the motion is granted.

funk n roll aoa
rnr love affair guitar remix
breakdown
another love
aint gonna miss u
dance 4 me icon remix
hardrock lover
mr nelson
affirmation
way back home
time
affirmation

groovey potential
extraloveable
1000 hugs
rnr love affair remix 7
if eye could get ur attention
stare
breakfast can wair
fall in love 2nite
oui can luv
free urself

thats my five star late prince double album mix that he should have released .. all killer no filler

EmmaMcG said:

I've liked AOA from day one. Still do, but since his death it makes me sad. Way Back Home and Affermation III hits a little too close to home for me. But Time and Clouds are simply brilliant.

PE never been a big fan of this one, but i do like some of the songs. Wow, Whitecaps, and Anotherlove in particular.

HnR1 - from Fallinlovetonite to the end is a killer string of songs. The first four are not aging well and it only been a few years. So get why people don't like it.

HnR2- great set of songs, but agree with whoever said it feels like a compilation. Which is fine, but not sure if I can call it an "album".

[Edited 7/29/20 9:50am]

Fenwick said:

The looped "uh - uh-uh" is so entirely derivative.

That bugs. Even if it turned out to be Lil Kim and not Mila, it would still sound wrong. I just want to know the story behind it...like I don't picture it being anything like when Prince decided to adopt New Jack Swing, I picture his producer playing him some R&B and convincing him minds would be blown.

The "Butt go round" loop, same thing, but that at least sounds like something Prince would have came up with himself around Bob George, or maybe Love Symbol era.

I'd bump up those review scores a little for AOA and HnR1 (second half is good), but basically agree with OP. If anything, though, Baltimore hits harder in the current climate.

A little harsh on AOA. I didnt understand all the raves but its an enjoyable set and has a very consistent vision. I love the contribution by Lianna La Havas. In fact, I'm gonna put it on right now.

Plectrum was also a fun listen but gosh he should have included the "What If" cover. I guess 2 cover songs would have been too much for him (especially considering that they both would be the best songs on the album). I even enjoyed Hannah's vocals on this. So I had to say at the time I was ok with this "old man" version of Prince with the kick ass girl band.

HnR1 is bad. I liked Million Dollar. He ruined 1000 hugs and kisses. 'nuff said.

HnR2 is a great for a hodgepodge of latter day unrelease tracks. its not really an "album" but worth it for Black Muse and Groove Potential alone.

[Edited 7/29/20 13:41pm]

Still kinda painful listening to those albums. "Breakdown" is nothing like I expected, such a haunting song.

AOA is album with cohesive sound (like the Come album-but with a different sound obvisouly) and that makes it more enjoyable.

I find the lyrics stunted in his later works making it harder to enjoy. HIT 1 and 2 are okay-not my favorites.

Great review. I must admit the last four albums were the ones I have listened to probably only a couple of times when they came out, as nothing really ignited any fire within me. But - I attribute this to me now being a middle-aged person, not a teenager anymore who listened to music (and mostly Prince) like a thousand hours at a time... I find it harder nowadays to really feel blown over by music in general ... Don't we all think the musical masterpieces came out when we were teenagers unti maybe mid-twenties...

But anyway, not to stray away, I did like the last album when I (briefly) listened to it, but thought it more of a blast from the past, some nice leftovers from different times in Princes career. Certainly not something I put on repeat a lot of times...

But for my way home from work today, I have quickly assembled a playlist and will listen to the Gold Standard and the four "gems" from the last album, to see if they touch me again.

databank said:

I'd assume RJorion was having a bad day but that, besides this, his point was that if you don't have something particularly insightful or original to say about an album, if it's just a matter of expressing a personal opinion that is of little interest to anyone and that, before the internet, was quickly silenced, it's better to keep it for yourself. This might be the expression of a very real difference of approach between different people regarding the internet in general and the Org in particular. Some of us believe it would be better for the Org to be a forum for elite reviewers, analysts and other knowledgeable people to discuss serious topics seriously, and that regular people are better off reading it than contributing. Others believe that this should be an open space for anyone to say anything because it's their prerogative and because they enjoy reading everyone's opinion a'and debating with everyone even if there are few real arguments in the debate. Vertical vs. Horizontal. Elitism vs. Democratic discussion. Should the Org be an assembly of experts conferring or a bar where anyone can come and discuss Prince over a beer? I don't have an answer for this. But until there are 2 distinct boards, this will always be s source of tension between members.

I think this POV is interesting, with the added caveat that...this already IS an open space. I'm sorry if this sounds childish or obvious, but...that's just what it is. An open space, for anyone to come, and post their takeaway, whatever it is. That's what the entire internet is. So while there might be two competing visions of the org, it's relevant to point out that one of them is of something that doesn't exist and never did, and other is sitting here, being used in good faith by however many people.

Much, much easier to just not read and respond to what you're not interested in, right?

These last 4 albums contained material that was as good as anything Prince had ever done. Fight me.

I don't agree with the poor score for AOA nor the comment that is 'soul less'. Way Back Home has such a mournful feel through it. The lyrics really feel like he knew something was wrong or that the end was near.

The Breakdown was so atypically confessional. Lyrically, there seemed to some new ground broken on this album....

Overall, I do agree...Phase 1 was not good but for 'June' which was, again, him in reminiscing mode which was odd for him.

I do agree that Phase 2 was a very very strong album. I thought it was b/c the organic, horn heavy production was what I loved about it but the songs are very strong too. LIke SOTT, it was a collection of great stuff over the last years. Super.