All this vault stuff being released has made me much happier.It is excellent to hear high quality versions of tracks that you felt privileged listening to on a fourth generation tape,so no disappointment from this old timer.

I really love rehearsal jams and these posthumous releases haven't even skimmed the surface of that body of work

andrewm7 said:

All this vault stuff being released has made me much happier.It is excellent to hear high quality versions of tracks that you felt privileged listening to on a fourth generation tape,so no disappointment from this old timer.

I really love rehearsal jams and these posthumous releases haven't even skimmed the surface of that body of work

Same here, I don't get people who complain that they had these tracks already.
Most had them on bootlegs. I'd happily trade in all my (now) crappy bootlegs for SDE releases.
But it would be great if they used the old bootlegs as a reference of what is out there among the fans so they can cancel them out by giving the fans perfect quality versions of what they illegally have.

herb4 said:

fredmagnus said:

fredmagnus said:

herb4 said:

Just LOL

So called die hard fans, like the ones that permeate this board, have been collecting this shit with low tier sound and salivating for for decades for unreleased gems - often bitching about how the outtakes were SOOO much better than the official stuff - and, now that we're finally getting some of it (with decent sound for a change), are all *YAWN* - "just quantity over quality"

For 30 years now, all I've heard is WHEN WE DO WE GET TO HEAR THIS, combined with fans just GUSHING over stuff like "Empty Room"

Cool. cool. Ok then...

Tell you what. You guys skip it then.

I mean, sure, OK. SOme of this stuff was brushed aside, back burnered and set aside becuse Prince himself didn't think it was ready, fit an album, given to a protege or wasn't fully realized but who fucking cares? We aint getting any more NEW albums, folks.

I'll take it ALL. As fast as the Estate can release it. And I MUCH prefer the release of vault songs to remastered stuff I've heard a million times and beaten to absolute death since 1982.

Exactly my thoughts. Some here just need to quit.

Quitting is the word indeed

I believe the problem with the people saying the vault material is disappointing is exactly the same problem as with those people who kept coming here and bitching about every new Prince release since the Org opened in 1998. They expect the new music to do to them what PR or SOTT did to them when they were 15 and Prince's music radically changed their life. Ain't gonna happen.

As someone who consistantly enjoyed Prince's new music over the years, I enjoy vault releases the same way. It's great to have new material, there are gems on every new release and anyone who says the contrary is a fool. But no one's ever gonna be 15 again...

I have to agree with databank et al here, there are many out there who said his released work was quantity over quality, especially those who love pristine, perfectly written songs that have been polished and worked on and worked on until they are perfect. How often did he do that? More than some claim (read the Purple Rain sessions book to see him slaving over Baby I'm a Star for weeks for example) but certainly he was more often than not happy with imperfect sounding mixes or tracks if he dug the vibe.

If i have been disappointed with any of the newly unearthed stuff it's because I kind of had to come to terms with the fact that, contrary to legend, these are not finished tracks ready for release. They're fully written songs for sure, but they're rarely in a completely finished state, I get the distinct impression that if he were to release them he would have done another pass on most of them, maybe adding in some harmonies or overdubs and possibly mixing out some of the tracks. The released Nothing Compares vs. the Originals is a good example of that.

[Edited 7/9/20 9:38am]

databank said:

fredmagnus said:

herb4 said: Exactly my thoughts. Some here just need to quit.

Quitting is the word indeed

I believe the problem with the people saying the vault material is disappointing is exactly the same problem as with those people who kept coming here and bitching about every new Prince release since the Org opened in 1998. They expect the new music to do to them what PR or SOTT did to them when they were 15 and Prince's music radically changed their life. Ain't gonna happen.

As someone who consistantly enjoyed Prince's new music over the years, I enjoy vault releases the same way. It's great to have new material, there are gems on every new release and anyone who says the contrary is a fool. But no one's ever gonna be 15 again...

It's not just that.... there is something a little hollow about posthumous releases in general. I sorely miss and feel the absence of Prince's touch on these releases. It's all just a collection of songs, some from the same era, some not. But try as I may, I can not bring myself to muster up the same enthusiasm for these Special Deluxe Editions as I could for an actual new Prince album, even when he was going through a creative lull, there was always the anticipation/hope that he would bounce back, which he usually did, even if it was just the odd song here and there.

Smokey80 said:

databank said:

Quitting is the word indeed

I believe the problem with the people saying the vault material is disappointing is exactly the same problem as with those people who kept coming here and bitching about every new Prince release since the Org opened in 1998. They expect the new music to do to them what PR or SOTT did to them when they were 15 and Prince's music radically changed their life. Ain't gonna happen.

As someone who consistantly enjoyed Prince's new music over the years, I enjoy vault releases the same way. It's great to have new material, there are gems on every new release and anyone who says the contrary is a fool. But no one's ever gonna be 15 again...

It's not just that.... there is something a little hollow about posthumous releases in general. I sorely miss and feel the absence of Prince's touch on these releases. It's all just a collection of songs, some from the same era, some not. But try as I may, I can not bring myself to muster up the same enthusiasm for these Special Deluxe Editions as I could for an actual new Prince album, even when he was going through a creative lull, there was always the anticipation/hope that he would bounce back, which he usually did, even if it was just the odd song here and there.

Of course. As an albums lover I enjoyed knowing that each new album was P's vision at any given time. To me, this will always be better than posthumous collections in terms of listening experience (yeah, Crystal Ball haters, I'm looking at you ).

+ it was the continuation of an artistic journey, and no matter what they release, the journey ended in 2016.

And yeah, there probably isn't so much mindblowing material from 77-95 that hasn't leaked yet on bootlegs or online. Yet given the overall output, if one loves Prince's music I find it a little exaggerated to go and say everything left in the vault is subpar material. It's still very solid stuff for the most part.

As long as they don't mess with the tracks by creating Frankenstein mixes, we should be happy with these vault releases.

jaawwnn said:

I have to agree with databank et al here, there are many out there who said his released work was quantity over quality, especially those who love pristine, perfectly written songs that have been polished and worked on and worked on until they are perfect. How often did he do that? More than some claim (read the Purple Rain sessions book to see him slaving over Baby I'm a Star for weeks for example) but certainly he was more often than not happy with imperfect sounding mixes or tracks if he dug the vibe.

If i have been disappointed with any of the newly unearthed stuff it's because I kind of had to come to terms with the fact that, contrary to legend, these are not finished tracks ready for release. They're fully written songs for sure, but they're rarely in a completely finished state, I get the distinct impression that if he were to release them he would have done another pass on most of them, maybe adding in some harmonies or overdubs and possibly mixing out some of the tracks. The released Nothing Compares vs. the Originals is a good example of that.

[Edited 7/9/20 9:38am]

All true.

Truth be told, a lot of times, I actually ENJOY and appreciate that "unfinished" quality and hearing the songs in thier bare bones form. "Reduced to their essence" I suppose. There's something pure and spontaneous to them.

I'm an artist myself and on a lot of occasionas the sketches I did for final pieces have more charm and whimsy than the final version did after I'd polished it all up.

herb4 said:

jaawwnn said:

I have to agree with databank et al here, there are many out there who said his released work was quantity over quality, especially those who love pristine, perfectly written songs that have been polished and worked on and worked on until they are perfect. How often did he do that? More than some claim (read the Purple Rain sessions book to see him slaving over Baby I'm a Star for weeks for example) but certainly he was more often than not happy with imperfect sounding mixes or tracks if he dug the vibe.

If i have been disappointed with any of the newly unearthed stuff it's because I kind of had to come to terms with the fact that, contrary to legend, these are not finished tracks ready for release. They're fully written songs for sure, but they're rarely in a completely finished state, I get the distinct impression that if he were to release them he would have done another pass on most of them, maybe adding in some harmonies or overdubs and possibly mixing out some of the tracks. The released Nothing Compares vs. the Originals is a good example of that.

[Edited 7/9/20 9:38am]

All true.

Truth be told, a lot of times, I actually ENJOY and appreciate that "unfinished" quality and hearing the songs in thier bare bones form. "Reduced to their essence" I suppose. There's something pure and spontaneous to them.

I'm an artist myself and on a lot of occasionas the sketches I did for final pieces have more charm and whimsy than the final version did after I'd polished it all up.

Besides, I honestly don't think anyone can tell whether Prince would have reworked a track or not. His approach was often so spontaneous, it's really hard to tell. I certainly wouldn't assume anything except in certain very obvious cases (like American In Paris for example, a song that's literally begging for overdubs).

herb4 said:

jaawwnn said:

I have to agree with databank et al here, there are many out there who said his released work was quantity over quality, especially those who love pristine, perfectly written songs that have been polished and worked on and worked on until they are perfect. How often did he do that? More than some claim (read the Purple Rain sessions book to see him slaving over Baby I'm a Star for weeks for example) but certainly he was more often than not happy with imperfect sounding mixes or tracks if he dug the vibe.

If i have been disappointed with any of the newly unearthed stuff it's because I kind of had to come to terms with the fact that, contrary to legend, these are not finished tracks ready for release. They're fully written songs for sure, but they're rarely in a completely finished state, I get the distinct impression that if he were to release them he would have done another pass on most of them, maybe adding in some harmonies or overdubs and possibly mixing out some of the tracks. The released Nothing Compares vs. the Originals is a good example of that.

[Edited 7/9/20 9:38am]

All true.

Truth be told, a lot of times, I actually ENJOY and appreciate that "unfinished" quality and hearing the songs in thier bare bones form. "Reduced to their essence" I suppose. There's something pure and spontaneous to them.

I'm an artist myself and on a lot of occasionas the sketches I did for final pieces have more charm and whimsy than the final version did after I'd polished it all up.

Yeah i know what you're getting at, there's space for the listener in these songs, you can almost fill in the gaps yourself.

I'm off on a tangent here but it's a bit Beatles vs. ABBA; both wrote perfect pop songs but the Beatles tracks had a lot of space in the writing of them that has led to some very different cover versions. Pretty much all ABBA covers sound like the ABBA song, a result of their pursuit of the perfect record.

databank said:

herb4 said:

All true.

Truth be told, a lot of times, I actually ENJOY and appreciate that "unfinished" quality and hearing the songs in thier bare bones form. "Reduced to their essence" I suppose. There's something pure and spontaneous to them.

I'm an artist myself and on a lot of occasionas the sketches I did for final pieces have more charm and whimsy than the final version did after I'd polished it all up.

Besides, I honestly don't think anyone can tell whether Prince would have reworked a track or not. His approach was often so spontaneous, it's really hard to tell. I certainly wouldn't assume anything except in certain very obvious cases (like American In Paris for example, a song that's literally begging for overdubs).

Agreed.

Prince often treated a lot of these songs the way some of us treat that closet or file cabinet we finally need to get around to fixing up and straightening out. Those papers we need to get back to and finally organize but never do. At least that's how I imagine it

databank said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

i think i echo your sentiments mostly. as i've stated. based on what i've heard, I appreciate him way more as an editor now. including the final versions of earlier songs, and the stuff he kept for himself. a few examples, International Lover works as HIS song, not Morris'. the talking would become schtick with Morris in a pimpish kinda way versus romantic bravado in P's case. Moonbeam Levels is not album worthy. SAIMH and 17 Days, as dope as they are don't "fit" on the respective albums from the era they're a part of (Hair wouldn't be SO misplaced). Adore over Crucial. Nixing Possessed, the "released" versions of The Dance and NPG (over Bold Gen.) are best and better choices. that's just IMHO. I hope some of the stuff i've NEVER heard from the SOTT Deluxe add to the slim list of wow songs from the vault i have. Like if Cosmic Day is really underwhelming, I'll be deflated

datdude said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

i think i echo your sentiments mostly. as i've stated. based on what i've heard, I appreciate him way more as an editor now. including the final versions of earlier songs, and the stuff he kept for himself. a few examples, International Lover works as HIS song, not Morris'. the talking would become schtick with Morris in a pimpish kinda way versus romantic bravado in P's case. Moonbeam Levels is not album worthy. SAIMH and 17 Days, as dope as they are don't "fit" on the respective albums from the era they're a part of (Hair wouldn't be SO misplaced). Adore over Crucial. Nixing Possessed, the "released" versions of The Dance and NPG (over Bold Gen.) are best and better choices. that's just IMHO. I hope some of the stuff i've NEVER heard from the SOTT Deluxe add to the slim list of wow songs from the vault i have. Like if Cosmic Day is really underwhelming, I'll be deflated

herb4 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

Sadly for you, you're blasé.
And that's just your opinion.

CAL3 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

. YES! A million times, YES! So glad to see a post like this. . The “vault” material — ALL of which is, by definition, UNFINISHED work due to the very nature of its unreleased status — has had (and will continue to have) a DIMINISHING effect on the carefully-crafted official canon of work Prince finished during his lifetime. . The tomb-raiders who have curated this mess of largely uninspired leftovers and works-in-progress are actively diluting the potency of Prince’s officially-released legacy. And the vultures swooping in to pick the leftovers apart only contribute to the indecency. . “Dig U Better Dead,” indeed. A mantra for the entitled, forever-carping fanbase, their appetite for every single scrap of unfinished music — every ultimately UNSANCTIONED (by the creator of the work, obviously) — impossible to satiate. Prince’s untimely passing and the subsequent opening of the floodgates — through which every boring, subpar recording (intermittently interesting, yes, though ALWAYS unfinished) could now flow - provided the “gift” that so many fans craved during Prince’s lifetime. Not that hours of “vault” material that has so far emerged been anywhere near enough to calm the vultures’ feeding frenzy. .

That's pathetic.

"Crystal Ball", "All My Dreams", "Witness 4 The Prosecution" (the bare version is the one), "Old Friends 4 Sale", "Last Heart", "Joy In Repetition" (the Linn Drum toms intro version), the "Can't Stop This Feeling I Got/Girl O' My Dreams/We Can Funk" and dozens of others are no less finished than anything that was released (all things considered, when compared to other recording artist, EVERY DAMN PRINCE SONG IS A DEMO), and bear a rightful legendary status because they could have formed incredible albums on their own.

You forget that before some of the best ones were released, they were bootlegs, for years, decades for some of them.

As for what I put in bold, you seem to have serious issues.
U need a hug or somethin'?

[Edited 7/12/20 17:10pm]

mmart2008 said:

Yes, that's why I haven't bought any since the Purple Rain reissue. All artists record loads of tracks for an album, but they cut it down to about 10 of the best. Little Richard said of Prince, he should have released less material because, a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing.

First, that's some serious bullshit. The "Thriller" outtakes are barely a dozen, and they all are shitty songs, inaudible eighties crap. Same goes for a ton of "expanded" editions of major artists.

Take U2's Achtung Baby, you would assume that a fine album like this would have fantastic outtakes, but no, they're sketches for what would become released songs.

Prince's outtakes are way, way more creative. Does The Vault contain some meh songs and failed experiments? Sure, but here's the catch: very, very few are actually boring, or without any kind of interest: There's a reason why Prince is a musicians' musician.
An average composition by Prince is a wet dream for every other pop song writer.

Penniman was full of bullshit on that quote.
"Whole lot of nothing"? He musta confused with his own career, in limbo for thirty years and counting.

You naysayers sound so self-entitled.
You're still playing "If I was Prince, I would have done it this way", when none of you bozos can pick an instrument or worked in the industry.

When are you going to grow up and letitgo?
The Man didn't owe you squat, never did,
and obviously never will. Give it up already, damn.

[Edited 7/12/20 17:11pm]

bonatoc said:

ColinFaconskin said:

herb4 said:

See these last 2 posters?

^^^Up there^^^

They get it

Thanks, I guess the web is a strange old place. People will criticise anything and everything! Off the top of my head Roadhouse Garden, Dance Electric, In A Large Room, Cocoa Boys, The Line, Databank are all 10/10 songs IMO and it would be a tragedy if they didn't get out there beyond the hardcore followers who have had the pleasure of them for years. I only heard these songs for the first time in 2016 and I was stunned, particularly RG. That song is so tight yet so loose and just so poignant it really hits me in the gut. It saddens me that I didn't appreciate the guy more when he was still around. That's what releasing the vault should be about.

Same. I own lot of bootlegs but several songs I've been introduced to have been brand new to me and don't have that annoying cassette tape hiss. I'd never heard Coco Boys or 101 before, to say nothing of the PR and 199 vault stuff.

Keep it coming I say. Mix in some live stuff and aftershows too.

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

I'd suggest u listen closer.

CAL3 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

. YES! A million times, YES! So glad to see a post like this. . The “vault” material — ALL of which is, by definition, UNFINISHED work due to the very nature of its unreleased status — has had (and will continue to have) a DIMINISHING effect on the carefully-crafted official canon of work Prince finished during his lifetime. . The tomb-raiders who have curated this mess of largely uninspired leftovers and works-in-progress are actively diluting the potency of Prince’s officially-released legacy. And the vultures swooping in to pick the leftovers apart only contribute to the indecency. . “Dig U Better Dead,” indeed. A mantra for the entitled, forever-carping fanbase, their appetite for every single scrap of unfinished music — every ultimately UNSANCTIONED (by the creator of the work, obviously) — impossible to satiate. Prince’s untimely passing and the subsequent opening of the floodgates — through which every boring, subpar recording (intermittently interesting, yes, though ALWAYS unfinished) could now flow - provided the “gift” that so many fans craved during Prince’s lifetime. Not that hours of “vault” material that has so far emerged been anywhere near enough to calm the vultures’ feeding frenzy. .

Holier-than-thou much?

Let's wait and see

Here's an interesting aside; Will the postumous releases (eventually) outweigh the original released catalogue? in numbers of songs that is.

Dandroppedadime said:

Here's an interesting aside; Will the postumous releases (eventually) outweigh the original released catalogue? in numbers of songs that is.

Well you just answered your question, in number of songs that is. Although who knows, it could rival the quality of the realeased catalogue in a distance future.

Way too early to tell. As it stands now, i would say nope.

JoeyC said:

There needs to be a rule on this forum where the OP needs to state how old they are and what their favourite album is, before they post a ridculous comment like that.

Yes, everyone has their own opinions, but if the OP stated that they are in their 30's and their favourite album was Rave, then I'd totally get it, and would jump to the next topic without wasting any more time on it.