My comment from the other thread:

.

1/ Thank you Mr. Howe for talking to us.

.

2/ "If anything, we had to be judicious about it because there were a number of things that were unfinished ideas, or instrumentals that were intended for The Flesh" contradicts "the ballpark was basically late March of 1986 – basically after Parade had been delivered and gone into production, meaning there were going to be no further changes on it – through to the middle of 1987". I know I'm being picky, this is just to make a point about the fact that the fandom is paying attention to details.

.

2/ "So the only bona fide rarity or vault track from Camille album is ‘Rebirth of the Flesh’, with the original outro, which I don’t believe has even circulated amongst bootleg collectors, but with the things that have been released and that track, you can listen to Camille from front to back, as it was envisioned" -> As far as I know from reliable sources, the test pressing based cassette of Camille that's doing the rounds among traders has the same version of ROTF as the circulating Crystal Ball configuration and every other bootleg. Now it's possible that 1/ There was a slightly different config of Camille or 2/ I was lied to. Again, just paying attention to details. I'm now told by a reliable source that the version on SOTT Deluxe is the Camille version, while the version we have is the Crystal Ball version. Apparently the Camille tape circulating among elite traders was a phoney, but the Crystal Ball tape that was leaked publicly some years back is genuine. So now we'll have both versions, cool

.

3 / "And the idea was to include everything so that the listener – and this is in the streaming world, obviously – could sequence any of those things in the way that he or she wants. You know, if you want to listen to the original Dream Factory you can do that, if you want to listen to Camille as it was originally envisioned, you can do that." -> Indeed we can listen to close approximations, and it's cool, but not the exact configs as envisioned if only because some released mixes are still slightly different than the mixes on some configs, not to mention the space between tracks and crossfades. Please do not assume we do not know our sh**, Mr. Howe. Now I'm not saying this is a problem with this particular SOTT Deluxe release, it's cool as it is and indeed too many alternate tracks would have been redundant, I totally agree. But you know what to do to make fans happy for Record Stores Day: release the configs as such. Make it 1987 vinyl and CD collectors' copies if you will, then don't be cheap and after maybe one or 2 or 3 years just put it on streming services or Bandcamp. No harm done, more money for the estate, fans happy

.

4/ "But you know, there are no creative liberties taken." -> The correct way to phrase this is "We took a few creative liberties on Originals and saw the fans' feedback was negative, it was a mistake and we decided to never do it again". Just ADMIT it for God's sake!! All can be forgiven, Originals' tracks can be rereleased in proper form at a later date. But we all know, EVERYONE knows, so why keep pretending it didn't happen and, by doing so, insult the fanbase?

.

5/ "I’m very excited for people to hear [Witness] version two, which I think is a lot less common, certainly in the collector’s and trader’s circles. I don’t know that for sure, but I hope it is" -> Oh believe me we've had it for about 30 years (and not just the elite traders, it was on CD bootlegs as early as 1991 if not earlier). Not to say it's a problem, it's gonna be awesome to have it in better quality. Just, again, to say that we're paying attention

.

Apart from that, I'm fine with everything that was said and, so far, I have absolutely no complaint with the announed release and the choices that were made. It seems awesome. I hope it'll be awesome. So thank you Mr. Howe for making the next release better than the one before and so on. Let's built trust, shall we?

[Edited 6/27/20 7:57am]

parker said:

TheFman said:

I can't believe they left out Crystal Ball full version?? I mean, the 'other one'. That's no 7" right?

[Edited 6/26/20 12:16pm]

Did you not read the article? It’s already been released in 1998. [Edited 6/26/20 12:18pm]

To be fair to TheFman there are at least 3 other unreleased long versions they could have released. But if this 7'' edit is genuine and was made by P at the time, I think it's super cool to have it. Funny experiment, I'm curious to see how Prince envisioned this song as a single (or single b-side).

Moonbeam said:

Rimshottbob said:

Based on the fact that they only have one more year to release another SDE (apart from the soundtracks, which Warners will retain control of) I'd say the next one WON'T be Parade or Purple Rain.

Surely it would make sense to release one next year (before the contract expiration date arrives) while they still can... such as Around The World In A Day or The Gold Experience (though I think that one's unlikely)....

then after the 2021 contract expires, they can still release Parade in 2022 and Purple Rain after that.... Batman after that, etc, assuming they want to.

That would make more sense to me. Plus I seem to remember reading a while back that the Parade SDE was ready to go, so it seems like this is the reason they're holding off releasing it....

I believe the rights transfer to Sony (for North America) from January 1, 2021, not January 1, 2022. As such, it would mean that global superdeluxe editions are only possible through the end of this year unless Warner and Sony work out some agreement.

Of course, Warner could issue standalone vault sets comprising material from 1978-1994 - they would just have to be disassociated from any album.

I obviously haven't read the contracts but I believe the idea that WB would keep distribution rights for 78-96 vault material while Sony would get the albums is just a story made-up by some orger that was repeated so often it became "true". I'm not aware of any official source saying this (I may have missed it, though), but logic dictates that the 2021 date was drafted in the 2014 Prince made where he got his masters back but WB kept exclusive distribution rights until 2020. Then distribution rights for everything (save, apparently, the 4 OST's and possible the associated singles and b-sides) would have reverted to prince to do with as he wished (now the estate). I can't possibly imagine a reason why this wouldn't apply to unreleased material.

SquirrelMeat said:

Rimshottbob said:

Based on the fact that they only have one more year to release another SDE (apart from the soundtracks, which Warners will retain control of) I'd say the next one WON'T be Parade or Purple Rain.

Surely it would make sense to release one next year (before the contract expiration date arrives) while they still can... such as Around The World In A Day or The Gold Experience (though I think that one's unlikely)....

then after the 2021 contract expires, they can still release Parade in 2022 and Purple Rain after that.... Batman after that, etc, assuming they want to.

That would make more sense to me. Plus I seem to remember reading a while back that the Parade SDE was ready to go, so it seems like this is the reason they're holding off releasing it....

Seems logical.

Diamonds & Pearls would seem the most obvious to me, based on the initial sales/fan base for it.

Personally I'll like ATWIAD or Lovesexy.

If the contract details are correct, and Howe seems to believe one a year is the likely plan, then WB are not interested in SDEs for all the remaining albums of which they lose control.

I agree that D&P should be high on their priority list. But who knows...

Kares said:

My guess is they're working on a Lovesexy SDE. There's a ton of material from that period too, and hopefully they have been able to acquire the rights to the Lovesexy Live video, so that could see a light of day again. (I suspect that the lack of any rerelease of that video means the Estate already acquired the rights for it.)
.
On the other hand: what troubles me the most is the total lack of any vault releases from Prince later years. If they truly want to honour him, they should release something more recent, something surprisingly different, something daring – even if it means more risk financially.
.
As much as we are thrilled to finally hear our old bootlegs in good quality, these releases won't make new fans, I'm afraid. Truly surprising, experimental and more recent material COULD.
.

I agree, later years need to be showcased at some point. Besides, the unreleased material from after 1995, being totally unleaked as opposed to pretty much 75% of the 75-95 outtakes, is going to be a fascinating discovery for us. No matter how happy I was/am about the outtakes CD's on PR, 1999 and SOTT Deluxe, bootlegs made it so that about 90% of the material was already known to me, either in that specific form or another variant. I mean Witness for example, it's awseome to hear it with better sound quality but I've had this exact version of the song for 28 years, so I'm not gonna be as hysterical about it as I was when I first heard it.

.

I also agree with the fact that post 1993 material might attract more new fans that the 80's stuff. To my surprise given the commercial success and critical acclaim of the 80's era, I actually converted more people to Prince by having them listen to 1994-2016 albums than by having them listen to 1978-1993 material. Somehow, his later music seemed more accessible to people born after 1975 than his 80's stuff. Maybe because my generation rejected the 80's so much.

.

But I can understand the focus on the 80's for now, it makes total sense from a commercial standpoint. We're slowly moving away from the 1984 focus. All in due time.

olb99 said:

Kares said:

On the other hand: what troubles me the most is the total lack of any vault releases from Prince later years. If they truly want to honour him, they should release something more recent, something surprisingly different, something daring – even if it means more risk financially.

I seem to remember that we already talked about this. What worries me is that some of those recordings might be lost because they were stored on crappy harddrives and not actual tapes that usually degrade more gradually.

I'm salivating at the thought of a Lovesexy SDE release (it's my favorite album), but, yes, vault releases from the 90s and 00s especially would be welcome.

According to Howe, we're pretty much stuck at one SDE release a year. If we get one extra release à la "Originals", that's what? 3-4 CDs worth of studio outtakes and 2 CDs + 1 DVD of live content a year? It's not nothing, but they have to find a way to release more stuff. And I'm thinking about something more ambitious than RSD releases.

I feel bad complaining when I see the tracklist of the SOTT SDE. It's a step in the right direction. But I've seen far better archival releases for other artists, with multiple takes, incomplete takes, rehearsals, studio chatter, etc. Come on, we want it all!

Despite all the things I might have complained about, I still trust Michael Howe to do his job and preserve the material, I'm sure whatever was recorded on hardrives has been backed-up properly by now. Mr. Howe would be at great fault if precautions had not been taken.

.

I guess from a commercial perspective, 3 CDs of studio material and 2 CDs/DVDs of live material, i.e. 5 albums a year, seems reasonable for the estate. I mean that's as much as Prince could release in his best years when he was alive. Now of course there is so much potential for more. And an audience ready to spend big bucks. I'd gladly spent 20€/month for 2 album's worth of material a month on some online store if it was there.

.

Bandcamp could also be an alternative. You might say "C'mon, Prince was too big for Bandcamp", but at least the store is there, ready to use, so you don't need to create and maintain an online store, and recognized musicians like Bill Laswell use it extensively (Laswell is actually actively trying to put his hands on the masters of as many records in his past catalogue as he can so he can put them on his Bandcamp, and he also now uses it to release material from his vault).

.

Clearly, if we get say one album SDE a year + a few bonus things thrown at us every once in a while, it meand it will take as many years to rerelease SDE's of the whole catalogue as it took for Prince to release the albums in the first place, i.e. 40 years. And then only would they begin to release other things in the vault? Most of us will be dead in 40 years, we ain't so young anymore. So hopefully sensible decisions will be made to find a practical and profitable solution to release more than this, but who knows what can happen when control is passed over to P's family. They could do awesome things as well as awful things. For now we're stuck with Comerica and Michael Howe and we'll have to be happy with 5 CDs a year (which, in all honesty, is not the worse that could happen).

I had forgot about his earlier "Wally" comments. Could it be some suggestive lyrics that found it's way on the earlier version?

SquirrelMeat said:

RODSERLING said:

Hang on... the comments in this thread seem to be saying two different things about the Warners rights handover.

.

I've read in many places that next year, Warners loses the rights to all Prince's non-soundtrack albums to Sony.

.

But someone earlier said that Warners has one more year to get a non-soundtrack SDE done.

.

So which is it? Does Warners lose the rights at the end of 2020, or at the end of 2021?

GiggityGoo said:

parker said:

GiggityGoo said:

Hang on... the comments in this thread seem to be saying two different things about the Warners rights handover.

.

I've read in many places that next year, Warners loses the rights to all Prince's non-soundtrack albums to Sony.

.

But someone earlier said that Warners has one more year to get a non-soundtrack SDE done.

.

So which is it? Does Warners lose the rights at the end of 2020, or at the end of 2021?

At the end of 2020: https://www.prnewswire.co...72798.html

love2thenines2003 said:

parker said:

Just to piggy back on the confusion, does Warner maintain the rights to the unreleased material recorded while Prince was under contract? If so, these SDE will grind to a halt, and simply be expanded additions with singles and b-sides.

WBR WILL MAINTAIN all the rights to the unreleased stuff recorded between 78-94 for ever

I will need an official source before I believe this. This makes very little sense since this was negociated with Prince in 2014, not with the estate after he died. Logic dictates Prince would get back the distribution rights to everything except the OSTs in 2021.

and WBR WILL MAINTAIN all the rights to the released stuff recorded between 78-94 everywhere except for USA!

Again, I need an official source before I believe it. I don't see this anywhere on the press release: https://www.prnewswire.co...72798.html

I'm not calling you a liar, I just demand evidence.

jaypotton said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Seems logical.

Diamonds & Pearls would seem the most obvious to me, based on the initial sales/fan base for it.

Personally I'll like ATWIAD or Lovesexy.

If the contract details are correct, and Howe seems to believe one a year is the likely plan, then WB are not interested in SDEs for all the remaining albums of which they lose control.

I agree that D&P seems logical if contractually WB loses all except the four soundtracks (and they can take their time). Also as you say D&P was Prince's biggest seller after PR and 1999 so might attract some casuals. If that was not the case I would have said Parade next but WB have more time to cash in on this right?

SOTT is the last non-OST release by WB, they lose the catalogue on December 31. https://www.prnewswire.co...72798.html

databank said:

love2thenines2003 said:

databank said:

Iam sorry to contradict u but this is the case....look for yourself..no matter what u think to be true! In 2021 and after....only 2 possibilities for Warner & Sony. 1- Sony and Warner agree to jointly release Super Deluxe editions. At this point nothing changes. Sony will release for North America and Warner for all other countries. 2- They don't get along. Sony will use the 1978-1994 back catalogue ALREADY RELEASED with only one possible configuration; original remastered albums and B-sides/Remixes attached as unique bonus items. Warner, not only will have the possibility to distribute FOR THE WHOLE WORLD albums made up only of unpublished unreleased Vault releases from the period 1978-1994 (because Prince was under contract with them during this period) but they will also be able to distribute for countries outside North America the "light" editions published by Sony in the United States and Canada. [Edited 6/27/20 15:52pm] [Edited 6/27/20 16:02pm]

No offense but you speak like a conspiracy theorist: "vaccines don't work, but it's not my place to prove it to you, it's your place to prove me wrong, and you have to do your own research by yourself because I don't have the time to provide evidence".

You make claims, it's your responsibility to back them up with facts, evidence and proper information.

If the information is real, then please just provide a link or explain how you obtained it. It's not so hard.

If the information is just some personal theory of yours based on intuition, then please just say so and in the lack of any further evidence, everyone can make up their mind for themselves.

Simple as that

LoveGalore said:

lustmealways said:

let's all compare this to what he said last year about Wally.

"(Hesitates, grunts, sighs painfully) That is a difficult one for me to answer. Look, I'll tell you this: there is probably more than what you think related to that track. Whatever may or may not happen with that, I do not know, let alone speculate about it. You will have to draw your conclusion from my cryptic answer, I fear (laughs). I am not deliberately trying to be so reserved. If it was up to me, you would get the most honest answer to your question. It is very tricky to be frank about this."

everyone please take note of the hesitation, grunts, and painful sighs.

Mmhm. I said it back then and I'll say it again. I fully believe the original Wally was found and there is something or someone preventing it's release. Not much for conspiracies, but there is way too much huff and puff to be just "oh we couldn't find it."

I've always believed that Susan Rogers had a copy but is being loyal...or doesn't want to admit to a bit of "theft" from under P's nose.

laytonian said:

laytonian said:

teiemka said:

LoveGalore said:

lustmealways said:

let's all compare this to what he said last year about Wally.

"(Hesitates, grunts, sighs painfully) That is a difficult one for me to answer. Look, I'll tell you this: there is probably more than what you think related to that track. Whatever may or may not happen with that, I do not know, let alone speculate about it. You will have to draw your conclusion from my cryptic answer, I fear (laughs). I am not deliberately trying to be so reserved. If it was up to me, you would get the most honest answer to your question. It is very tricky to be frank about this."

everyone please take note of the hesitation, grunts, and painful sighs.

Mmhm. I said it back then and I'll say it again. I fully believe the original Wally was found and there is something or someone preventing it's release. Not much for conspiracies, but there is way too much huff and puff to be just "oh we couldn't find it."

-

...and here we go again.

I couldn't be more happy with this release.

And we all should !

-

I'm abosultely sure if everything Prince ever created and farted was available,

there would still be not enough for 'some'.

beware, I'm not saying 'you', dearest Lovegalore. Peace though.

-

"Be glad 4 what U got...

There's many a man who's not"

etc

-

Let's all wait and see after september 18th or 25th or whatever.

I'm patient enough to wait even longer if so.

-

laytonian said:

LoveGalore said:

lustmealways said: Mmhm. I said it back then and I'll say it again. I fully believe the original Wally was found and there is something or someone preventing it's release. Not much for conspiracies, but there is way too much huff and puff to be just "oh we couldn't find it."

I've always believed that Susan Rogers had a copy but is being loyal...or doesn't want to admit to a bit of "theft" from under P's nose.

.
The way Susan has been telling the story (consistently) for years is that they were still tracking the song and Prince was just keep adding tracks to it as if he was deliberately overproducing/ruining it, until he had enough and ordered her to erase it all.

.

I trust her and I don't think any of us would have a reason not to. Now can you imagine that in the above scenario, after P decided the song should be destroyed for good, Susan went "Can I just make a quick mix to a cassette first?" to which P replies "Alright, go ahead!"? No way. She didn't have a chance to make a ref tape. Prince went over to the Studer remote unit, set all 24 tracks to record and erased the whole tape. That's it, I'm afraid.
.

[Edited 6/28/20 2:20am]

Kares said:

laytonian said:

I've always believed that Susan Rogers had a copy but is being loyal...or doesn't want to admit to a bit of "theft" from under P's nose.

.
The way Susan has been telling the story (consistently) for years is that they were still tracking the song and Prince was just keep adding tracks to it as if he was deliberately overproducing/ruining it, until he had enough and ordered her to erase it all.

.

I trust her and I don't think any of us would have a reason not to. Now can you imagine that in the above scenario, after P decided the song should be destroyed for good, Susan went "Can I just make a quick mix to a cassette first?" to which P replies "Alright, go ahead!"? No way. She didn't have a chance to make a ref tape. Prince went over to the Studer remote unit, set all 24 tracks to record and erased the whole tape. That's it, I'm afraid.
.

[Edited 6/28/20 2:20am]

https://soundcloud.com/ca...s-on-wally

"So a copy of the original "Wally" was made..."
https://prince.org/msg/7/437989

Susan: "He made his cassette."

[Edited 6/28/20 5:31am]

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.
The way Susan has been telling the story (consistently) for years is that they were still tracking the song and Prince was just keep adding tracks to it as if he was deliberately overproducing/ruining it, until he had enough and ordered her to erase it all.

.

I trust her and I don't think any of us would have a reason not to. Now can you imagine that in the above scenario, after P decided the song should be destroyed for good, Susan went "Can I just make a quick mix to a cassette first?" to which P replies "Alright, go ahead!"? No way. She didn't have a chance to make a ref tape. Prince went over to the Studer remote unit, set all 24 tracks to record and erased the whole tape. That's it, I'm afraid.
.

[Edited 6/28/20 2:20am]

https://soundcloud.com/ca...s-on-wally

"So a copy of the original "Wally" was made..."
https://prince.org/msg/7/437989

Susan: "He made his cassette."

.

.
Okay, that bit escaped my mind. Thanks for the correction, my mistake!
.

Kares said:

My guess is they're working on a Lovesexy SDE. There's a ton of material from that period too, and hopefully they have been able to acquire the rights to the Lovesexy Live video, so that could see a light of day again. (I suspect that the lack of any rerelease of that video means the Estate already acquired the rights for it.)
.
On the other hand: what troubles me the most is the total lack of any vault releases from Prince later years. If they truly want to honour him, they should release something more recent, something surprisingly different, something daring – even if it means more risk financially.
.
As much as we are thrilled to finally hear our old bootlegs in good quality, these releases won't make new fans, I'm afraid. Truly surprising, experimental and more recent material COULD.
.

My understanding is that there are still some hurdles before that is possible. So maybe in a year or two we can get some of the stuff I'll be most excited about (Black is the New Black, Piano & a Microphone gala night video etc).

Kares said:

olb99 said:

https://soundcloud.com/ca...s-on-wally

"So a copy of the original "Wally" was made..."
https://prince.org/msg/7/437989

Susan: "He made his cassette."

.

.
Okay, that bit escaped my mind. Thanks for the correction, my mistake!
.

AFAIK, this is the only proof that a copy of the original version survived (at least for some time). One sentence in an interview on a podcast. It's a bit thin. I wish Michael asked for more details...

databank said:

GiggityGoo said:

Hang on... the comments in this thread seem to be saying two different things about the Warners rights handover.

.

I've read in many places that next year, Warners loses the rights to all Prince's non-soundtrack albums to Sony.

.

But someone earlier said that Warners has one more year to get a non-soundtrack SDE done.

.

So which is it? Does Warners lose the rights at the end of 2020, or at the end of 2021?

At the end of 2020: https://www.prnewswire.co...72798.html

.

Databank! Thank you so much for the quick and concise reply. I was afraid a certain Bart... sorry, I mean, brat, would jump in and school me on the use of Google.

.

Now, another question: did I correctly hear in Howe's interview that he'll be involved with any forthcoming Sony Legacy SDEs, as well as whatever soundtrack album SDEs WB will be putting out?

databank said: