I wish I was able to credit the artist who finished this off, but I saw this on Twitter and saved it without taking note. Bravo to whoever it is.

OldFriends4Sale said:

THE SEX OF IT

The album was completed and scheduled for release when Prince submitted the song in late 1989 (which he had promised when meeting Darnell in Europe during the Lovesexy Tour), and the record company delayed the release to include the song.

A handwritten tracklist for The Time’s Corporate World on which Prince and Morris Day worked on in Summer 1989 shows that The Sex Of It was, at one point, also considered for that album.
But it is not known if an actual recording with Morris Day’s vocals took place.

Summer 1989 Paisley Park Studios, Chanhassen, MN, USA Possible recording or vocal overbubs with Morris Day (tentative) Late 1989 - early 1990 Studio information needed August Darnell vocal overdubs (no Prince input)

Kid Creole and the Coconuts version August Darnell - lead vocals Prince - all background vocals and instruments, except where noted Sheila E. - background vocals Dian Sorel - background vocals Levi Seacer, Jr. - percussion, keyboards Eric Leeds - tenor saxophone Atlanta Bliss - trumpet


Unreleased version Prince - all vocals and instruments, except where noted Sheila E. - background vocals Levi Seacer, Jr. - percussion, keyboards Eric Leeds - tenor saxophone Atlanta Bliss - trumpet -PrinceVault

Yeah, another one that I'm hoping will show up on a future Originals or Deluxe Edition...this was always one of my favorites of songs written for others. Another great thread as always, Old Friends!!!

VaultCurator said:

I wish I was able to credit the artist who finished this off, but I saw this on Twitter and saved it without taking note. Bravo to whoever it is.

The second album... My mother passed away in '95. When she was diagnosed in cancer in '94, I had a deal with London Records. Steve Fargnoli hooked me up with them. My contract expired with Prince in 1993 on April 15... which I remember because it was seven years to the day. When my mom passed...I didn't want to sing. I don't think I handled it as professionally as I should have. I wrote a letter to my manager that said "You're just too busy going through the corporate world, because you don't know what the fuck you're doing." And I faxed it. And we were dropped... I (later) recorded (the album Two) with Chris Bruce and it was cathartic. I had a new boyfriend at the time and that was a nightmare. (I) just had to get it all out. That record came and it was supposed to come. (The song) "Gorgeous Wonder" is about my daughter and she just saved me in so many ways. I just ended up going into interior design through friends. It was very trying and tricky. I remember (one time) that I was bartending and the RZA (from the Wu-Tang Clan) came in and said "you're Jill Jones" and I was like "No, I don't understand" and I pretended like I was French. Don't let your pride swallow you up...because that is a mistake. Everything's fixable and your good friends would never make you feel bad about it...
.
Jill Jones on the unfinished second Paisley Park album: We (Jones and Prince) were kind of at two different roads. The song ("Boom Boom") was from 1982 and it seemed forced. He kept remixing it. I went to do the video, but, it was late, it was too late. And I just ended up going back to New York, got married and waited until my contract expired. During this time he called me-- and I was at a friend's house-- and said, "you don't have any charisma, you should dye your hair black and you need to get breast implants like Brigitte Nielsen." I was furious... Dickens (CEO of Warner Brothers UK) was instrumental at one point with Roger Davies, my manager, when we were trying to complete my second album alone. Without Prince. But, Prince rejected every attempt we tried.

Tony LeMans grew up, Tony Fortier in Santa Monica, California, United States. He attended Will Rogers Elementary School, John Adams Jr High, Santa Monica High School and Olympic High School. It was at John Adams that he met Lenny Kravitz who was just beginning to study music. After dropping out of Olympic High School, Tony changed his surname to LeMans due to his fathers love of the vehicle with that name. He then briefly worked with Kravitz on his Romeo Blue project. However, due to creative differences, they had a falling out and went separate ways.

LeMans left Los Angeles for Minneapolis and met Prince shortly after arriving there. Paisley Park Records released Tony's first and only album, "Tony Lemans" in 1989. It peaked at #58 on the Billboard R&B Album chart. Three singles were released ("Higher Than High," "Cookie Crumbles," and "Forever More") without much chart success.[1] Although Prince often worked behind the scenes on albums for his label, he officially played no role in this one. David Gamson was the main producer.

In the early 1990s, LeMans began work on a second album. Prince offered him a song called "Fuschia Light" that was intended to go on the album. The album was never completed due to LeMan's death. In addition to his own work, LeMans also produced a song with David Gamson for Donny Osmond's comeback album, Sure Looking Good.

LeMans, an avid motorcyclist, (he loved Harley-Davidson) died in an accident while riding in Malibu, California on June 24, 1992. He was to be married the next day to Deborah Matthews, Vanity's sister.[

OldFriends4Sale said:

VaultCurator said:

I wish I was able to credit the artist who finished this off, but I saw this on Twitter and saved it without taking note. Bravo to whoever it is.

LOL that's cool, I should try one too

gotta change that font

herb4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Certain arts were birthed by the times they came of age in. I think Prince would have 'slayed' as a 60s artist and 70s' artists. Because his essence flowed easily during those cultural times. We saw it in him and his art through out his career. He was a bit of a conservative bohemian hippie I don't know if Prince started in the 90s if he would have made a mark or been able to holistically be who he was in the time period that became less fluid.

True.

Prince would had been relevant no matter when he happened to be born. His game and his talent are real hard to ignore or deny. Even people I meet who don't care for his stuff recognize his skill and acknowledge his brilliance, even if he's not thier cup of tea.

Very few people I run into will argue that he sucked. His detractors will say he was weird or whatever but I've never one I can't blow away (or at least impress) with the right track just by asking what THEY like and generally listen to. Metal heads, hip hop lovers, technos, punk, jazz afficianodos...I can always find a track to put on that will turn their head and ask me who that is.

Usually they're surprised to learn it's Prince.

...

I remember some young 22 year old know it all overhear me playing the back end of "Last December" once who stubbornly refused to believe it was actually Prince. Won over a couple of DJ's and blues listeners in my day too. The trick is not to be pushy. Just put it on and, believe me, they'll inevitably ask "who's that?", especially if there are no vocals.

Had Prince been born in the South or perhaps Chicago and came of age anywhere in the 50s or 60s, he could have EASILY - *EASILY* - been the greatest bluesman ever with the possible exception of B.B. King. He could not possibly have contained his enormous talent to such a narrow calling, but if fate had willed it be so, Prince would have been the best bluesman ever. Have you heard that motherfucker's straight up blues? There is NOBODY who can hang maybe B.B. Prince playing the blues simply blows away everyone else that ever did it and I am very aware of what I am saying here.

Had Prince simply been THE guitar player in a good rock band - had he been ONLY that, like Slash or Tom Morello or Randy Rhoads, etc - had he "known his place" in the band and stayed there, maybe wrote some of the songs maybe not - he'd have been the greatest (lead) guitar player of all time. He would have been THE rock guitar God of all-time. EASILY. The world being what it is, the white establishment might have failed to acknowledge this openly, and continued to elevate some relative hack like Eric Clapton to the throne, but people who played music or just knew what fucking time it was would have known what was up with that shit. In a way, Prince did achieve that , sort of, but his talent and vision were so far beyong JUST being that, it's very difficult for anyone - least of all Prince - to filter his talent through the incredibly limiting lens of "sideman." But again, had it been fate, he'd have been the best there'd ever been.

Had Prince come along during the 50s in New York during the hard bop jazz period? Had place and circumstance put maybe not just a guitar or bass but a horn in his hand during the height of the 1500 Blue Note period? Man, my mind cannot hold the possibilities - just can't.

herb4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL that's cool, I should try one too

gotta change that font

The pic is amazing, but yeah, that font looks like it belongs on an orange juice carton. lol.

hardwork said:

herb4 said:

True.

Prince would had been relevant no matter when he happened to be born. His game and his talent are real hard to ignore or deny. Even people I meet who don't care for his stuff recognize his skill and acknowledge his brilliance, even if he's not thier cup of tea.

Very few people I run into will argue that he sucked. His detractors will say he was weird or whatever but I've never one I can't blow away (or at least impress) with the right track just by asking what THEY like and generally listen to. Metal heads, hip hop lovers, technos, punk, jazz afficianodos...I can always find a track to put on that will turn their head and ask me who that is.

Usually they're surprised to learn it's Prince.

...

I remember some young 22 year old know it all overhear me playing the back end of "Last December" once who stubbornly refused to believe it was actually Prince. Won over a couple of DJ's and blues listeners in my day too. The trick is not to be pushy. Just put it on and, believe me, they'll inevitably ask "who's that?", especially if there are no vocals.

Had Prince been born in the South or perhaps Chicago and came of age anywhere in the 50s or 60s, he could have EASILY - *EASILY* - been the greatest bluesman ever with the possible exception of B.B. King. He could not possibly have contained his enormous talent to such a narrow calling, but if fate had willed it be so, Prince would have been the best bluesman ever. Have you heard that motherfucker's straight up blues? There is NOBODY who can hang maybe B.B. Prince playing the blues simply blows away everyone else that ever did it and I am very aware of what I am saying here.

Had Prince simply been THE guitar player in a good rock band - had he been ONLY that, like Slash or Tom Morello or Randy Rhoads, etc - had he "known his place" in the band and stayed there, maybe wrote some of the songs maybe not - he'd have been the greatest (lead) guitar player of all time. He would have been THE rock guitar God of all-time. EASILY. The world being what it is, the white establishment might have failed to acknowledge this openly, and continued to elevate some relative hack like Eric Clapton to the throne, but people who played music or just knew what fucking time it was would have known what was up with that shit. In a way, Prince did achieve that , sort of, but his talent and vision were so far beyong JUST being that, it's very difficult for anyone - least of all Prince - to filter his talent through the incredibly limiting lens of "sideman." But again, had it been fate, he'd have been the best there'd ever been.

Had Prince come along during the 50s in New York during the hard bop jazz period? Had place and circumstance put maybe not just a guitar or bass but a horn in his hand during the height of the 1500 Blue Note period? Man, my mind cannot hold the possibilities - just can't.

I don't know enough about blues (or jazz) to comment on those parts of your post but I won't argue and the blues Prince did focus on sounds pretty stellar to me.

Also, totally agree that even if he played lead guitar (or, hell, rythym) in a popular rock or funk band, he'd be mentioned in the same breath as Page, Slash, Clapton, etc like you said. He's way better than Keith Richards, for instance, but some of that might have come down to being in the right band at the right time too so who knows?

I think his talent and drive were simply too strong to be so contained. Hell, you could make the argument he'd be thought of as highly as, say, Elton John, Billy Preston or Billy Joel had he focused soley on the piano. He struck fucking lightening with 1999 and Purple Rain, aided by the rise of MTV and all that shit - right place and right time and all that - so it worked out but that level of talent is hard to keep a lid on. Maybe not always.

For all I know, the motherfucker might have been a god on the bass in a regular band. His own bass players said he played it better than they did and the few times I watched him slap that shit it was working real well for me so he might have wound up being mentioned with those greats as well.

I'm not a musician, mind you, but to me, no one I've ever seen or heard was so good at so many different things (song writing, vocals, dance, lead guitar, rythym guitar, keyboards/piano, bass...even the drums). At a minumum, he'd have been a legendary session player but that shit don't work when you're better than 3/4 of the fucking band.

My man WAS music, writ large. Uncontained. And his versatility continues to astonish and inspire me.

To to tell you the truth, it humbles me more than anything.

hardwork said:

herb4 said:

True.

Prince would had been relevant no matter when he happened to be born. His game and his talent are real hard to ignore or deny. Even people I meet who don't care for his stuff recognize his skill and acknowledge his brilliance, even if he's not thier cup of tea.

Very few people I run into will argue that he sucked. His detractors will say he was weird or whatever but I've never one I can't blow away (or at least impress) with the right track just by asking what THEY like and generally listen to. Metal heads, hip hop lovers, technos, punk, jazz afficianodos...I can always find a track to put on that will turn their head and ask me who that is.

Usually they're surprised to learn it's Prince.

...

I remember some young 22 year old know it all overhear me playing the back end of "Last December" once who stubbornly refused to believe it was actually Prince. Won over a couple of DJ's and blues listeners in my day too. The trick is not to be pushy. Just put it on and, believe me, they'll inevitably ask "who's that?", especially if there are no vocals.

Had Prince been born in the South or perhaps Chicago and came of age anywhere in the 50s or 60s, he could have EASILY - *EASILY* - been the greatest bluesman ever with the possible exception of B.B. King. He could not possibly have contained his enormous talent to such a narrow calling, but if fate had willed it be so, Prince would have been the best bluesman ever. Have you heard that motherfucker's straight up blues? There is NOBODY who can hang maybe B.B. Prince playing the blues simply blows away everyone else that ever did it and I am very aware of what I am saying here.

Had Prince simply been THE guitar player in a good rock band - had he been ONLY that, like Slash or Tom Morello or Randy Rhoads, etc - had he "known his place" in the band and stayed there, maybe wrote some of the songs maybe not - he'd have been the greatest (lead) guitar player of all time. He would have been THE rock guitar God of all-time. EASILY. The world being what it is, the white establishment might have failed to acknowledge this openly, and continued to elevate some relative hack like Eric Clapton to the throne, but people who played music or just knew what fucking time it was would have known what was up with that shit. In a way, Prince did achieve that , sort of, but his talent and vision were so far beyong JUST being that, it's very difficult for anyone - least of all Prince - to filter his talent through the incredibly limiting lens of "sideman." But again, had it been fate, he'd have been the best there'd ever been.

Had Prince come along during the 50s in New York during the hard bop jazz period? Had place and circumstance put maybe not just a guitar or bass but a horn in his hand during the height of the 1500 Blue Note period? Man, my mind cannot hold the possibilities - just can't.

This was a good post and sorry for double posting myself but, reading what you wrote further, it made me wonder how shit might have worked for him during the 50's.

He could have been Sam Cooke, maybe, or even Fats Domino but, like you mentioned, would have been held back by the white music establishment that propped up white artists like Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis. You seem to be arguing BB and maybe even Miles or Charlie Parker. I can see it but confess my overall ignorance of jazz.

He's often compared to Little Richard so maybe that. That seems right.

Then again, in the 60's he may have been Hendrix - another often compared musician. He was good enough. Obvioulsy he could have been James Brown in a different era.

Thing is too, sometimes back than and even now, if a dude was/is TOO good and upstages the main act, they could put themselves out of work with the quickness as well - just as easily as rise. Prince doesn't seem like a guy who would ever Learn His Proverbial Place, so to speak, and doesn't seem like he'd be help back. But context, luck and timing are often as important as skill and talent.

Probably 10,000 amazing players and song writers out there right now that will never get their names known or ever see the light of day working within the modern framework.

Good stuff you wrote and thanks for giving me something to chew on and mull over. Fun to think about actually and nice to read some intelligent stuff still being written on this board.

herb4 said:

hardwork said:

Had Prince been born in the South or perhaps Chicago and came of age anywhere in the 50s or 60s, he could have EASILY - *EASILY* - been the greatest bluesman ever with the possible exception of B.B. King. He could not possibly have contained his enormous talent to such a narrow calling, but if fate had willed it be so, Prince would have been the best bluesman ever. Have you heard that motherfucker's straight up blues? There is NOBODY who can hang maybe B.B. Prince playing the blues simply blows away everyone else that ever did it and I am very aware of what I am saying here.

Had Prince simply been THE guitar player in a good rock band - had he been ONLY that, like Slash or Tom Morello or Randy Rhoads, etc - had he "known his place" in the band and stayed there, maybe wrote some of the songs maybe not - he'd have been the greatest (lead) guitar player of all time. He would have been THE rock guitar God of all-time. EASILY. The world being what it is, the white establishment might have failed to acknowledge this openly, and continued to elevate some relative hack like Eric Clapton to the throne, but people who played music or just knew what fucking time it was would have known what was up with that shit. In a way, Prince did achieve that , sort of, but his talent and vision were so far beyong JUST being that, it's very difficult for anyone - least of all Prince - to filter his talent through the incredibly limiting lens of "sideman." But again, had it been fate, he'd have been the best there'd ever been.

Had Prince come along during the 50s in New York during the hard bop jazz period? Had place and circumstance put maybe not just a guitar or bass but a horn in his hand during the height of the 1500 Blue Note period? Man, my mind cannot hold the possibilities - just can't.

This was a good post and sorry for double posting myself but, reading what you wrote further, it made me wonder how shit might have worked for him during the 50's.

He could have been Sam Cooke, maybe, or even Fats Domino but, like you mentioned, would have been held back by the white music establishment that propped up white artists like Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis. You seem to be arguing BB and maybe even Miles or Charlie Parker. I can see it but confess my overall ignorance of jazz.

He's often compared to Little Richard so maybe that. That seems right.

Then again, in the 60's he may have been Hendrix - another often compared musician. He was good enough. Obvioulsy he could have been James Brown in a different era.

Thing is too, sometimes back than and even now, if a dude was/is TOO good and upstages the main act, they could put themselves out of work with the quickness as well - just as easily as rise. Prince doesn't seem like a guy who would ever Learn His Proverbial Place, so to speak, and doesn't seem like he'd be help back. But context, luck and timing are often as important as skill and talent.

Probably 10,000 amazing players and song writers out there right now that will never get their names known or ever see the light of day working within the modern framework.

Good stuff you wrote and thanks for giving me something to chew on and mull over. Fun to think about actually and nice to read some intelligent stuff still being written on this board.

These are two very good points. Your post made me to consider how important luck ALWAYS is - probably the MOST important factor in anyone's life. My post is referring to Prince's talent and drive and what that would have made possible in musical traditions and eras outside or somewhat outside his own. As far as being "too good" that is a topic a reliatvely small amount of people can speak on with real authority 'cause a fairly small number of people in life have this problem. I don't know if Prince being a real fucking jerk and controlling asshole in dealing with others was simply his way of dealing "pre-emptively" with the negative energy that may have always been a part of his life due to his insane talent advantage over others since he was a child (not his socio-economic-family childhood challenges.) Many of us worship his talent and rightly so but don't consider the dark side of the universe which attempts non-stop always to destroy what is true beauty - we don't see how that manifested in his life, but Prince must have been plenty aware of the evil in the world which ALWAYS attaches itself to the light attempts to extinguish it and he must have seen this dymanic plenty especially early on. So yes in other eras Prince might simply never have been heard of because luck was on the side of the haters. When you really get down to brass tacks what Prince pulled off in the music industry was a series of increidble miracles. His musical talent and vision were a big perhaps the biggest part, but Prince played a real high-wire political act all along the way. We take for granted that it "worked" (it DID work!) but how much luck was a part of it?

[Edited 7/15/20 19:40pm]

[Edited 7/15/20 19:47pm]

VaultCurator said:

I wish I was able to credit the artist who finished this off, but I saw this on Twitter and saved it without taking note. Bravo to whoever it is.

I love this

hardwork said:

herb4 said:

This was a good post and sorry for double posting myself but, reading what you wrote further, it made me wonder how shit might have worked for him during the 50's.

He could have been Sam Cooke, maybe, or even Fats Domino but, like you mentioned, would have been held back by the white music establishment that propped up white artists like Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis. You seem to be arguing BB and maybe even Miles or Charlie Parker. I can see it but confess my overall ignorance of jazz.

He's often compared to Little Richard so maybe that. That seems right.

Then again, in the 60's he may have been Hendrix - another often compared musician. He was good enough. Obvioulsy he could have been James Brown in a different era.

Thing is too, sometimes back than and even now, if a dude was/is TOO good and upstages the main act, they could put themselves out of work with the quickness as well - just as easily as rise. Prince doesn't seem like a guy who would ever Learn His Proverbial Place, so to speak, and doesn't seem like he'd be help back. But context, luck and timing are often as important as skill and talent.

Probably 10,000 amazing players and song writers out there right now that will never get their names known or ever see the light of day working within the modern framework.

Good stuff you wrote and thanks for giving me something to chew on and mull over. Fun to think about actually and nice to read some intelligent stuff still being written on this board.

These are two very good points. Your post made me to consider how important luck ALWAYS is - probably the MOST important factor in anyone's life. My post is referring to Prince's talent and drive and what that would have made possible in musical traditions and eras outside or somewhat outside his own. As far as being "too good" that is a topic a reliatvely small amount of people can speak on with real authority 'cause a fairly small number of people in life have this problem. I don't know if Prince being a real fucking jerk and controlling asshole in dealing with others was simply his way of dealing "pre-emptively" with the negative energy that may have always been a part of his life due to his insane talent advantage over others since he was a child (not his socio-economic-family childhood challenges.) Many of us worship his talent and rightly so but don't consider the dark side of the universe which attempts non-stop always to destroy what is true beauty - we don't see how that manifested in his life, but Prince must have been plenty aware of the evil in the world which ALWAYS attaches itself to the light attempts to extinguish it and he must have seen this dymanic plenty especially early on. So yes in other eras Prince might simply never have been heard of because luck was on the side of the haters. When you really get down to brass tacks what Prince pulled off in the music industry was a series of increidble miracles. His musical talent and vision were a big perhaps the biggest part, but Prince played a real high-wire political act all along the way. We take for granted that it "worked" (it DID work!) but how much luck was a part of it?

I like your posts in this thread.

Who can say? Some people think one makes thier own luck (I tend to disagree overall) but also, in Prince's case, I have little doubt that his singular vision and tireless work ethic allowed him to be in the right place at the right time, in addition to honing his god given talent like the sharpest of knives.

herb4 said:

hardwork said:

These are two very good points. Your post made me to consider how important luck ALWAYS is - probably the MOST important factor in anyone's life. My post is referring to Prince's talent and drive and what that would have made possible in musical traditions and eras outside or somewhat outside his own. As far as being "too good" that is a topic a reliatvely small amount of people can speak on with real authority 'cause a fairly small number of people in life have this problem. I don't know if Prince being a real fucking jerk and controlling asshole in dealing with others was simply his way of dealing "pre-emptively" with the negative energy that may have always been a part of his life due to his insane talent advantage over others since he was a child (not his socio-economic-family childhood challenges.) Many of us worship his talent and rightly so but don't consider the dark side of the universe which attempts non-stop always to destroy what is true beauty - we don't see how that manifested in his life, but Prince must have been plenty aware of the evil in the world which ALWAYS attaches itself to the light attempts to extinguish it and he must have seen this dymanic plenty especially early on. So yes in other eras Prince might simply never have been heard of because luck was on the side of the haters. When you really get down to brass tacks what Prince pulled off in the music industry was a series of increidble miracles. His musical talent and vision were a big perhaps the biggest part, but Prince played a real high-wire political act all along the way. We take for granted that it "worked" (it DID work!) but how much luck was a part of it?

I like your posts in this thread.

Who can say? Some people think one makes thier own luck (I tend to disagree overall) but also, in Prince's case, I have little doubt that his singular vision and tireless work ethic allowed him to be in the right place at the right time, in addition to honing his god given talent like the sharpest of knives.

Its a great discussion, especially in this day when everyone wants to be seen someway somehow via social media. And why after the 80s we really did not see the level of artistic talent afterwards from most, even talented, entertainers/artists.
.
I think one of the big things was time(right place at the right time) which in his case, was the late 70s-1980s. The energy and openness of the time bent almost every way Prince needed it to do his thing. If he was a little more focused to polish it could have been so much more. ie Not firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis from the Time, and making sure Vanity had what she wanted for the next phase of Vanity 6, not creating the Family and then leaving them sitting for months while he filmed UTCM, not having the band(s) in the movie UTCM(and trying to write and direct it himself)

.

Those things right there would have taken those eras up to 7 other notches.
.
If John did not catch Prince doing whatever it was he caught him doing and putting him out, I alway wonder how would have Prince drive pushed him further. Because I also believe that rejection and pain fed the fuel. Sadly.

.

There are some other things, like the WB and people in that camp from the start who seriously believed in Prince and opened as many doors as possible for him to work his art.

.

Which leads to this 1989 period where things just did not seem to be working. I mean like 'the anointing' left him and he just had his experiences 1978-1987 foundation and skills to go on

OldFriends4Sale said:

herb4 said:

I like your posts in this thread.

Who can say? Some people think one makes thier own luck (I tend to disagree overall) but also, in Prince's case, I have little doubt that his singular vision and tireless work ethic allowed him to be in the right place at the right time, in addition to honing his god given talent like the sharpest of knives.

Its a great discussion, especially in this day when everyone wants to be seen someway somehow via social media. And why after the 80s we really did not see the level of artistic talent afterwards from most, even talented, entertainers/artists.
.
I think one of the big things was time(right place at the right time) which in his case, was the late 70s-1980s. The energy and openness of the time bent almost every way Prince needed it to do his thing. If he was a little more focused to polish it could have been so much more. ie Not firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis from the Time, and making sure Vanity had what she wanted for the next phase of Vanity 6, not creating the Family and then leaving them sitting for months while he filmed UTCM, not having the band(s) in the movie UTCM(and trying to write and direct it himself)

.

Those things right there would have taken those eras up to 7 other notches.
.
If John did not catch Prince doing whatever it was he caught him doing and putting him out, I alway wonder how would have Prince drive pushed him further. Because I also believe that rejection and pain fed the fuel. Sadly.

.

There are some other things, like the WB and people in that camp from the start who seriously believed in Prince and opened as many doors as possible for him to work his art.

.

Which leads to this 1989 period where things just did not seem to be working. I mean like 'the anointing' left him and he just had his experiences 1978-1987 foundation and skills to go on

I wouldn't say "it didn't work" - at least in as much as Prince needed the money and Batman was a total no brainer cash in. It's one of his biggest selling albums despite being one of his more spotty.

Also, regarding the part I bolded, I think it's important to remember just how coy Prince was with the media and playing that game. Sure, there was no social media back then, but you could just as easily switch out MTV appearances, interviews with SPIN and Rolling Stone and even shit like doing commercials that almost every other musician during this period welcomed and embraced and call it the same thing. Just a different era.

Prince guarded his public appearances and overall marketing machine carefully throughout his career and, even during the 1983-1989 heyday, continued to shun The Game for the most part. He was famously private during a time when people were dying to see or hear him, even before he broke out large. I think it added to his mystique overall and, in the long run, helped to maintain his relevance and longevity by giving the public little, carefully measured slices instead of the entire pie to the extent that people ever really got full. So when he DID show his face and speak, it was Huge News.

His timing was good. He seemed to know when to poke his head out.

Every now and then, he'd turn up the volume on things commercially (D&P, Musicology, Batman, Rave) but even then it was filtered carefully and doled out in measured doses. He seemed to want to make sure people never entirely got sick of him and, even when he needed to sell records, I'd say Batman was the closest thing I'd ever seen to him totally being a blatant sellout.

Which is the topic of the thread. Or close enough.

And as spotty as the Batman album is, I've heard FAR worse - from him and several other musicians.

Overall, I think his cat and mouse games with the press and the King Makers of the industry back then were handled about as well as one could during that time and I thank god every day he never did a fucking Pepsi or a Corvette commercial, if you follow me.

herb4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Its a great discussion, especially in this day when everyone wants to be seen someway somehow via social media. And why after the 80s we really did not see the level of artistic talent afterwards from most, even talented, entertainers/artists.
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I think one of the big things was time(right place at the right time) which in his case, was the late 70s-1980s. The energy and openness of the time bent almost every way Prince needed it to do his thing. If he was a little more focused to polish it could have been so much more. ie Not firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis from the Time, and making sure Vanity had what she wanted for the next phase of Vanity 6, not creating the Family and then leaving them sitting for months while he filmed UTCM, not having the band(s) in the movie UTCM(and trying to write and direct it himself)

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Those things right there would have taken those eras up to 7 other notches.
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If John did not catch Prince doing whatever it was he caught him doing and putting him out, I alway wonder how would have Prince drive pushed him further. Because I also believe that rejection and pain fed the fuel. Sadly.

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There are some other things, like the WB and people in that camp from the start who seriously believed in Prince and opened as many doors as possible for him to work his art.

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Which leads to this 1989 period where things just did not seem to be working. I mean like 'the anointing' left him and he just had his experiences 1978-1987 foundation and skills to go on

I wouldn't say "it didn't work" - at least in as much as Prince needed the money and Batman was a total no brainer cash in. It's one of his biggest selling albums despite being one of his more spotty.

Also, regarding the part I bolded, I think it's important to remember just how coy Prince was with the media and playing that game. Sure, there was no social media back then, but you could just as easily switch out MTV appearances, interviews with SPIN and Rolling Stone and even shit like doing commercials that almost every other musician during this period welcomed and embraced and call it the same thing. Just a different era.

Prince guarded his public appearances and overall marketing machine carefully throughout his career and, even during the 1983-1989 heyday, continued to shun The Game for the most part. He was famously private during a time when people were dying to see or hear him, even before he broke out large. I think it added to his mystique overall and, in the long run, helped to maintain his relevance and longevity by giving the public little, carefully measured slices instead of the entire pie to the extent that people ever really got full. So when he DID show his face and speak, it was Huge News.

His timing was good. He seemed to know when to poke his head out.

herb4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Its a great discussion, especially in this day when everyone wants to be seen someway somehow via social media. And why after the 80s we really did not see the level of artistic talent afterwards from most, even talented, entertainers/artists.
.
I think one of the big things was time(right place at the right time) which in his case, was the late 70s-1980s. The energy and openness of the time bent almost every way Prince needed it to do his thing. If he was a little more focused to polish it could have been so much more. ie Not firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis from the Time, and making sure Vanity had what she wanted for the next phase of Vanity 6, not creating the Family and then leaving them sitting for months while he filmed UTCM, not having the band(s) in the movie UTCM(and trying to write and direct it himself)

.

Those things right there would have taken those eras up to 7 other notches.
.
If John did not catch Prince doing whatever it was he caught him doing and putting him out, I alway wonder how would have Prince drive pushed him further. Because I also believe that rejection and pain fed the fuel. Sadly.

.

There are some other things, like the WB and people in that camp from the start who seriously believed in Prince and opened as many doors as possible for him to work his art.

.

Which leads to this 1989 period where things just did not seem to be working. I mean like 'the anointing' left him and he just had his experiences 1978-1987 foundation and skills to go on

I wouldn't say "it didn't work" - at least in as much as Prince needed the money and Batman was a total no brainer cash in. It's one of his biggest selling albums despite being one of his more spotty.

Also, regarding the part I bolded, I think it's important to remember just how coy Prince was with the media and playing that game. Sure, there was no social media back then, but you could just as easily switch out MTV appearances, interviews with SPIN and Rolling Stone and even shit like doing commercials that almost every other musician during this period welcomed and embraced and call it the same thing. Just a different era.

Prince guarded his public appearances and overall marketing machine carefully throughout his career and, even during the 1983-1989 heyday, continued to shun The Game for the most part. He was famously private during a time when people were dying to see or hear him, even before he broke out large. I think it added to his mystique overall and, in the long run, helped to maintain his relevance and longevity by giving the public little, carefully measured slices instead of the entire pie to the extent that people ever really got full. So when he DID show his face and speak, it was Huge News.

His timing was good. He seemed to know when to poke his head out.

Every now and then, he'd turn up the volume on things commercially (D&P, Musicology, Batman, Rave) but even then it was filtered carefully and doled out in measured doses. He seemed to want to make sure people never entirely got sick of him and, even when he needed to sell records, I'd say Batman was the closest thing I'd ever seen to him totally being a blatant sellout.

Which is the topic of the thread. Or close enough.

And as spotty as the Batman album is, I've heard FAR worse - from him and several other musicians.

Overall, I think his cat and mouse games with the press and the King Makers of the industry back then were handled about as well as one could during that time and I thank god every day he never did a fucking Pepsi or a Corvette commercial, if you follow me.

What I mean is (outside of Batman) what he attempted starting in 89 didn't work. And one of those big ventures were Independant Paisley Park artists.

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I don't take qualls with Batman, it served it's purpose. But it also made me ask "what more could that 'era' have been" 89 is also when the Lovesexy band broke away and ran in different directions. Something in the water was not computing. The 'proteges' were kinda wack The Uptown Dames, Anna Fantastic and Carmen Electra. And most fans can enjoy or have fun with UTCM, but Graffiti Bridge was just intolerable.

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Also what I meant about the 'bolded' part was when it came to how he worked toward his success, in comparison to people today trying to get quick success or fame by talentless social media ventures. That's want directed at Prince but a plus towards Prince.

SoulAlive said:

I like the Batman album.It’s a lot of fun.Songs like “The Future”,”Partyman”,”Vicki Waiting” and “Batdance” are great.I even like “Arms Of Orion” there’s nothing wrong with a fun,simple,commercial album once in a while.

Prince was smart to do that record.

Probably the easiest money he ever made. He'd have been a fool to turn it down, "sell out" or not, but I will admit that it was the first time I ever got a whiff of Prince doing something just for the cash and the resulting album felt mailed in. I won't fault him for it though after paying forward so much artistic integrity to do SoTT, Parade, ATWIAD and Lovesexy exatly the way he saw fit and taking HUGE financial risks by doing so.

herb4 said:

SoulAlive said:

I like the Batman album.It’s a lot of fun.Songs like “The Future”,”Partyman”,”Vicki Waiting” and “Batdance” are great.I even like “Arms Of Orion” there’s nothing wrong with a fun,simple,commercial album once in a while.

Prince was smart to do that record.

Probably the easiest money he ever made. He'd have been a fool to turn it down, "sell out" or not, but I will admit that it was the first time I ever got a whiff of Prince doing something just for the cash and the resulting album felt mailed in. I won't fault him for it though after paying forward so much artistic integrity to do SoTT, Parade, ATWIAD and Lovesexy exatly the way he saw fit and taking HUGE financial risks by doing so.

after a string of albums that were more creative,daring and experimental,it was time for Prince to prove that he was still in the game.And let's be honest.....he needed the money there were rumors about financial problems in 1988.

After the success of the "Batman" soundtrack, do you think that helped pave the way ( for Warner Brothers) to give P the green light for "G.B" movie?

SPYZFAN1 said:

After the success of the "Batman" soundtrack, do you think that helped pave the way ( for Warner Brothers) to give P the green light for "G.B" movie?

No idea but I'm inclined to doubt it. I mean...maybe. The Batman money was rolling in for WB so that might have freed up some cash to toss his way but...

If anything gave the "green light" for another Prince movie I'd have to automatically assume it revolved around someone looking to cash in on Purple Rain 2 in one way or the other rather than any real faith in Prince's ability to deliver a good film and also figure out a way to throw our man a bone for all the Batman money he raked in to let him play with.

BUt I honesly don't know. Just spitballing based on how I assume these things tend to work and I'm sure that UTCM and how that performed gave WB pause regardless of how well Batman sold. I could be way off here but knowing what I do about business it makes sense for me.