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Prince fans have to exercise patience. Things will come out in time. None of us are going to get to hear everything in that vault, and that is what pains Prince fans. That’s why there is this nuance of quasi-urgency. I’m not even sure everyone at the estate itself is going to hear it all. Michael Howe will listen to most of it. So why stress over something no one can change?

Answer: No.

Difficult question to which there is no complete answer.

Really difficult question.

And genuinely not goading ... enough what, so far?

I am really grateful for most of the stuff that has come out to date.

There has been some interesting stuff and some naff stuff. But that some stuff is better than no stuff.

By the looks of it they have a difficult job of handling it all.

(These are in order in my opinion, in lieu of no obvious will & testament):

1: Honouring the musical / artistic legacy of Prince. (whilst)

2: Balancing the (financial) books whilst maintaining artistic integrity.

3: (Leaning on 2) Using the window of opportunity that is steadily diminshing that contains the aging living Prince fans who still want to splash the cash for physical music releases and special edition stuff. 30 years time most of us will be too old (too ugly) to be able to. I'm guessing that most of us who inhabit these forums comprise a significant percentage of the spend on these new releases.

4: Keeping the nutjob very vocal fans 'happy' in an age of any A-hole being able to publish online very harsh critical comments.

Within these four in mind though, are a whole bunch of subsections you can all expand upon. So either way, it's not an easy job. My one over-riding thought at the moment, and it's one I've arrived at through an intense period of absolutely no research or investigative journalism is ... I wish there was a direct line from the Estate to the fan community in a vaguely consistent way. No sneak previews or stuff like that. Just a bit of a transparent agenda and a vague update perhaps every quarter.

Could they appoint a fan-community liason? Doesn't even need to be a full-time job. There are a few users on here that spring to mind who could do a wonderful job.

If we had 50 alternative universes where in each universe one of us has the burden upon of running the estate on their shoulders, we would get 50 different outcomes. So is there really a right way?

Is the estate doing a bad job / good job - compared to what?

Prince was incomparable. His outout incomparable, his talent incomparable. There is no reference for this and they are in unchartered territory.

I'm rambling now and on this day, so I'll stop with the thought that if there is a God, that Prince's soul is feeling joyful. If there isn't a God, I'm thankful for the music that Prince made.

Happy Birthday Prince.

Thank you 4ever.

lustmealways said:

Answer: No.

Long answer: It's more a question of...have they released the right material? And that is a "no" with an exclamation mark.

We have gotten a rush job with 4Ever and Purple Rain Deluxe, the absolute worse choice first posthumous release with Piano & A Microphone 1983 (never forget that Michael Howe tracked down the original cassette and pushed hard for its release as the first posthumorous release), Originals (good but a strange selection of songs and messing with the original audio), 1999 Deluxe (good besides missing two songs because the Estate are cowards)

We all know there's material in the vault they could release tomorrow. Montreux, Atlanta, P&M Gala Event. These are things that are already completed with nothing preventing their release. And how many professionally recorded concerts did Paisley show during their movie nights?

But they keep going back to 1982-1984.

It's really pathetic that people that Prince use to work with, with way less resources, have been able to honor Prince better than the Estate that is suppose to be the guardian of his legacy.

(I also wouldn't consider the Sony reissues or the one off singles as releases anyways. Those are simple things that should have been done a long time ago)

Also Warner only has an exclusive forever license to the soundtrack albums. Not his whole Warner catalog.

In return, Prince (as NPG Records) agreed to provide Warner with an exclusive license to distribute those albums. (Meaning, Prince couldn’t take Purple Rain and sell a license to Arista, Sony or Daptone or any other company to distribute. Warner would be the only one with that right and privilege.)

Reading this thread's responses so far, it's clicked with me that the Estate has been using bootlegs for it's knowledge base as to what exists.

The archivists are supposed to listen and catalog everything. That's their job.

lavendardrummachine said:

Reading this thread's responses so far, it's clicked with me that the Estate has been using bootlegs for it's knowledge base as to what exists.

The archivists are supposed to listen and catalog everything. That's their job.

You have no real evidence of that, though. Michael Howe has been in there going through everything. And since he's not working 24/7 and physically living with the material, it's taking time. But what's been unearthed so far is certainly interesting.

When you say bootleg a few things need to be considered:

1) Howe & others are in the vault, they will eventually catalog everything, at least with studio recordings; in all the Carver County pics from the death photos, I didn't necessarily see a lot of live stuff - but that's not to say it wasn't in there. The pics didn't cover every single inch (although it's extensive)

2) boots are also live performances that were recorded by soundboard engineers or fans, so the vault may or may not contain copies as well; but obviously some of the fan releases are excellent condition (I think about the Lovesexy rehearsals in Japan, Small Club (Trojan Horse), Funky Party 2Nite (Le Zenith Parade Tour)). So those things won't be considered by the estate unless they have their own copy. Prince allegedly recorded everything - so... it's a waiting game.

While I covered mostly releases of music, the article isn't called "Has The Prince Estate Released Enough So Far?"

There are extra-cirrcular products outside of the music. It's an overall appraisal that I want people to consider. The music is certainly centric to anything, though.

TrivialPursuit said:

You have no real evidence of that, though. Michael Howe has been in there going through everything. And since he's not working 24/7 and physically living with the material, it's taking time. But what's been unearthed so far is certainly interesting.

Of course I don't have evidence aside from a quote saying even he won't hear everything, and just observing that so far nearly every release was known to exist thanks to bootlegs. I'm merely theorizing.

It's a question if they're releasing everythign they have available for unreleased completed songs (doesn't fit the mythology, and we know some things have been left behind), but I think it's pretty clear they did this to get a head start. Otherwise it would have taken many more years to make sure they had everything from Purple Rain catalogued and curated for that release. Or to know if Prince didn't record a half dozen other piano tapes in 1983 then pick the best one....or piano tapes from other years, and find the best one. It can't be a coincidence that we're just getting circulating material in an offical version.

To be clear, I don't know if there was a master list of Vault material kept in house that's been reliable, but what seems pretty likely at this point is they might have used outside resources to know what to look for, and sought it out.

I agree we don't know the extend of the collection. Some people here insist there was also offsite storage, and I like the thought of that.

There's plenty of evidence. Velvet Kitty Cat being a 320kbps mono transcode pressed to disc asap after leaking is one.

TrivialPursuit said:

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So why stress over something no one can change?

.

No one can change?

A matter of resources can be changed if there is a will to do so.

Apparently they see not enough money to warrant a speedup.

Who dares to write this stuff?

Can't they think?

Can't they understand we have limited liftimes and are mostly not 25 anymore?

Can't they understand the waste, also in terms iof money, that happens when the fanbase gets older?

Can't they understand the Estate needs to keep us interested, keep our attention?

Can't they understand the Estate needs to fix their legal brouha and get efficient?

Can't they understand the Estate needs to get to payout to the heirs quickly?

Etc, etc, etc.

In other words: they have not done enough.

Look at the lack of speed surrounding the Lonnie and CAKkie vs UMG case.

Look at the lack of wages for work done by heirs.

Look at the heirs selling future payouts for money now.

Those are signs.

lustmealways said:

Answer: No.

.

WhisperingDandelions said:

lavendardrummachine said:

. Some people here insist there was also offsite storage, and I like the thought of that.

It was reported in media that the vault material has been moved to California. There were always stories about water leaking, etc., in Prince's vault. We can see a lot of the video stuff being stored in probably not well ventilated or climate controlled areas. I would imagine the same lack of care was probably given to the vault.

TrivialPursuit said:

It was reported in media that the vault material has been moved to California.

Right, but we're talking about potential vault material that wasn't in The Vault which in that case isn't pictured in the police photos. We can't see everything in those photos, but just the master tapes for the video shoots alone would fill up that room alone and be hard to miss.

Not until Hey Hannigan is freed from the vault.

EnDoRpHn said:

Not until Hey Hannigan is freed from the vault.

.

Which Super Deluxe album would that be on?

udo said:

EnDoRpHn said:

Not until Hey Hannigan is freed from the vault.

.

Which Super Deluxe album would that be on?

It's one of those tracks that he just kept working on, so probably has a version from eras appropriate to any SD release. In fact, Hey Hannigan is probably why he needed a second vault. Somewhere there's an unfound location, just for the tapes of that track.

No.

They should release live video concerts as an ongoing side project to keep us on our toes.

Dimitri10 said:

No.

They should release live video concerts as an ongoing side project to keep us on our toes.

.

They are far from peaking at their monetization attempt.

No. Except for 1999, the Estate has botched it. The demand will dry up soon so the reluctance to flood the market will backfire when less fans are around to buy the more obscure stuff they are holding on to. Paisley Park also misses the mark by failing to coordinate with the Estate for exclusive music/video content.

[Edited 6/8/20 4:39am]

ForceofNature said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

There's plenty of evidence. Velvet Kitty Cat being a 320kbps mono transcode pressed to disc asap after leaking is one.

Although devil's advocate, who is to say that the leak didn't come from the unearthing and visiting of that track via the WB vault for the PR Deluxe?

The leak happened one day after Prince died, WB execs were probably still recovering from their celebration hangovers at that point. Not to mention it was circulating amongst collectors for years before that.

Besides, why would WB have a mono 320kbps mp3 in their vault?

I think if anything they need to look at what the Elvis estate has done with the creation of the FTD label (https://www.shopelvis.com...1143_11184). They need to create a specialty label dedicated to the more obscure releases that the hardcore fans want (concert recordings, post 80's vault releases, etc) because I understand they need to keep the focus on what the mainstream audience would buy for the big public releases which is why they keep the focus on when he was the most widely accepted and "bought" from the general public. There is very little interest from the mainstream audience for his newer releases or newer vault tracks. I can see the focus for the big mainstream releases to be deluxe editions of his most heradled albums of the 80s for the next few years at least. I think BLACK IS THE NEW BLACK would be of public interest but beyond that not much for the years 93-14.

I am also in the camp of people who believe the estate can never do right: too many Prince fans have too many different opinions. I just take what I can get from the estate and liked both the PR and 1999 sets, although the PR remaster was not up to my expectations.

donnyenglish said:

Paisley Park also misses the mark by failing to coordinate with the Estate for exclusive music/video content.

[Edited 6/8/20 4:39am]

Not sure what you mean - content for display on the tour?

EnDoRpHn said:

donnyenglish said:

They need much more exlcusive music and video that can only be seen at PP.

Prince himself tried that with his clubs. Plus the added benefit of maybe seeing Prince & Co. there. Not sure how well it would work withut that.