Everyone pretty much digs different Prince eras differently.

For me, the low would be when he started to go on-and-on about the stauros and changing lyrics like "23 Scriptures in a One Night Stand."

That said, it was still Prince being true to himself and I did dig the lyrical "Somebody lied about the way somebody died."

Y'all?

04/21/16

herb4 said:

04/21/16

Well for purposes of this thread let's say low-point that didn't involve his health or well-being?

sro100 said:

MattyJam said:

sro100 said:

Everyone pretty much digs different Prince eras differently.

For me, the low would be when he started to go on-and-on about the stauros and changing lyrics like "23 Scriptures in a One Night Stand."

That said, it was still Prince being true to himself and I did dig the lyrical "Somebody lied about the way somebody died."

Y'all?

Did he really say that?

Yes. ( I might have paraphrased a word or 2?)

He was ADAMANT that Christ did not die on the cross.

That it was the stauros.

And that this distinction is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

That's when he kind-of lost me for a bit...

The Rainbow Children. Cultic dogma, arrogance, soapbox. Not interested, in the least.

It changed Prince forever, and his career was spotty after that. He stopped cussing, he changed his lyrics to a point that it was downright embarassing. "work that body like ya want some more" "it's mainly a spiritual thing" UGGG. I'd rather him not sing those songs at all than butchering them the way he did. "Days of Wild" sounded like garbage after he changed all those lyrics. Give me the CB version any day rather than the NPGMC era version.

Folks gonna get upset about that, but it is what it is.

-

Saying very nasty things about Wendy & Lisa,

or to put it succinctly; to be guided and dragged through the poison called religion,

a way of thinking that robs your freedom of thinking.

+

the untouchability that stardom brings with it, and all creative decisions

being made after that

(led to little quality and an aspiring recognition...)

-

...I feel very philosophical today, sorry for that - covid-19 driven

:-/

-

TrivialPursuit said:

The Rainbow Children. Cultic dogma, arrogance, soapbox. Not interested, in the least.

It changed Prince forever, and his career was spotty after that. He stopped cussing, he changed his lyrics to a point that it was downright embarassing. "work that body like ya want some more" "it's mainly a spiritual thing" UGGG. I'd rather him not sing those songs at all than butchering them the way he did. "Days of Wild" sounded like garbage after he changed all those lyrics. Give me the CB version any day rather than the NPGMC era version.

Folks gonna get upset about that, but it is what it is.

This is an interesting post - see, I really liked The Rainbow Children. I thought/think the musicianship and composition is some of Prince's (and the band's) best. It was certainly one of the best live touring shows he did, again in my opinion. I didn't mind the religiosity of the album because it came across to me as authentic, on his part. I don't agree with it, I don't share the belief, but I can appreciate somesthing sincerely felt in others - if you know what I mean?

*

On the other hand, I am completely with you on the changing lyrics point. Don't sing the song. Even more so, don't tease your audience that you're going to sing a song and then don't - whilst looking coy and shocked...that's where the authenticity mask started to slip, for me. And, yes, it was embarrassing, and I felt, as an audience member, like I was being condescended to.

Vannormal said:

-

Saying very nasty things about Wendy & Lisa,

or to put it succinctly; to be guided and dragged through the poison called religion,

a way of thinking that robs your freedom of thinking.

+

the untouchability that stardom brings with it, and all creative decisions

being made after that

(led to little quality and an aspiring recognition...)

-

...I feel very philosophical today, sorry for that - covid-19 driven

:-/

-

I thihnk it was the Diamonds & Pearls Tour that had "Wendy & Lisa, please phone home" appear as part of the video loop, prior to the show. I remember feeling so very hopeful, at that point. To then hear the manner of his words about them subsequently was really disappointing, yes.

*

Your point about the untouchability, though - whilst I agree to a point, could you start to see a full circle occurring? That last album actually sounded like a Prince album, and actually sounded like he was coming to terms with the rarified air he breathed. It may be just me (and I know we are not supposed to mention the death here) but I do feel that we were properly robbed of a creative rennaisance in Prince's career. Could just be wishful thinking, obviously, but Phase II really has some first class material on it hinting at as a mature and fulfilling period of his career as the early to mid-80s.

[Edited 3/28/20 0:51am]

Graffiti Bridge. Some amazing songs lost in a time of a person's professional life where, for what appeared to be first time, there was no quality control going on.

[Edited 3/28/20 0:55am]

Honestly, for me, 'Batman'. Plenty of low moments later, some far worse, but the 'Batman' soundtrack was the first time I felt disappointed in his work, and had to reckon with the idea that he wasn't as flawless as I'd come to imagine. From then on I just sort of learned to accept that there would be lots of stuff I loved and lots that I didn't.

dustoff said:

Honestly, for me, 'Batman'. Plenty of low moments later, some far worse, but the 'Batman' soundtrack was the first time I felt disappointed in his work, and had to reckon with the idea that he wasn't as flawless as I'd come to imagine. From then on I just sort of learned to accept that there would be lots of stuff I loved and lots that I didn't.

That's a good shout, too, now you say it. Batman and GB sort of blend together, for me.

SimonCharles said:

That's a good shout, too, now you say it. Batman and GB sort of blend together, for me.

Yeah, I agree, they both seemed kind of mediocre compared to all that had come before.

dustoff said:

The peak eras were Dirty Mind, Rainbow Children and Piano & Mic. Those were periods of growth. The only low was Game Boyz era.

Well, I would say Emancipation was a real low to me. After a few bumpy years with albums (Come, TGE and Chaos & Disorder) that didn't really convince me like his earlier stuff he was already losing me as a faithful customer. But he kept saying Emancipation was the record he was born to make, that he saved his best material for this album and now that he was finally free from his WB contract he would finally unleash all this great material.

It got me all hyped up, until I went to the record store to buy it. I always bought new Prince albums on the first day of release without listening first, but that day I got a hunch to first listen to it because it was an expensive 3 cd album. My oh my, was I disappointed after I had reached the end of cd 3! It sounded like lifeless sugary plastic drivel to me. I left the shop upset and in disbelief and didn't buy the set until I could purchase it really cheap, just for completeness sake. It seemed my Prince had completely lost it artistically and musically. Also I hated the way he looked and styled himself during the 90's, it looked so out of touch with that era. It diminished my interest in Prince for at least 5 years, until TRC was released.

Easily Musicology for me. IMO the album is the most safe/cookie cutter project Prince has ever created. Atleast with albums like The Rainbow Children, Batman, Emancipation, New Power Soul, and Rave, he sounded musically adventurous (Even if you don't like the direction). I also found the Musicology tour to be largely bland with a boring setlist. I never understood the hype back in 2004, with the headlines like "Prince is back!"...I was like "Really?"

1996-2004 easily.

Even though I like it very much today Emancipation was the first Prince album that disappointed me. He started releasing boring music for the first time.

2020 said:

Great thread For me it was 1. The incredible flop that was Graffiti Bridge the movie and album 2. Larry Graham and the creatively dull period of New Power Soul 3. The atrocious 1999 remake 4. Purple & Gold the single ughhhhh

That is a hell of a list, yes. I think I had blanked the 1999 remake and the fight song out of my mind! ... New Power Soul, though...whilst I don't dispute your calling out the negative impact Larry Graham's presence in his band/orbit had on Prince's career, there are some proper tunes on NPS.

Having given this a little more thought:

*

Graffiti Bridge was a real low, I seem to recall, because that was the first time I'd read a sentence like "...even a below-par Prince is better than most other artists' best work..." or something to that effect. A sentence I would read again and again for the rest of his career.

*

Another low I'd stripped away from my mind was all the 'cease and desist' nonsense that went on around the poor fan response to NPS. That was true Emperor's New Clothes, for sure.

[Edited 3/28/20 9:32am]

First time I heard Batman LP Was hoping it was a blip but Graffiti Bridge proved me wrong.

MattyJam said:

sro100 said:

Everyone pretty much digs different Prince eras differently.

For me, the low would be when he started to go on-and-on about the stauros and changing lyrics like "23 Scriptures in a One Night Stand."

That said, it was still Prince being true to himself and I did dig the lyrical "Somebody lied about the way somebody died."

Y'all?

Did he really say that?

Whoops I replied earlier incorrectly.

Yes, in Gett Off live, "positions" became "Scriptures."

SimonCharles said:

On the other hand, I am completely with you on the changing lyrics point. Don't sing the song. Even more so, don't tease your audience that you're going to sing a song and then don't - whilst looking coy and shocked...that's where the authenticity mask started to slip, for me. And, yes, it was embarrassing, and I felt, as an audience member, like I was being condescended to.

I agree about the band & musicianship, and production. But the lyrics - it's been said. I hate them.

I agree 100% about the "coy and shocked" part, as if it was surprise to him. He'd also tease with "Darling Nikki" in that sample set he did. What's sad about that is it's almost like he was struggling to just play the fucking song but his dogmatic brainwashing wouldn't let him. Just sing "masturbating!"

I always said I just want to hear Prince say "fuck" again.

And as far as being condescended to, the way he went off on women's places and theocratic order, etc., - OMG dude, just shut the fuck up. No one wants to chant "THEOCRATIC ORDAH!" I think of Miko or Levi in GB saying, "Man, this is embarassing!"

TrivialPursuit said:

SimonCharles said:

On the other hand, I am completely with you on the changing lyrics point. Don't sing the song. Even more so, don't tease your audience that you're going to sing a song and then don't - whilst looking coy and shocked...that's where the authenticity mask started to slip, for me. And, yes, it was embarrassing, and I felt, as an audience member, like I was being condescended to.

I agree about the band & musicianship, and production. But the lyrics - it's been said. I hate them.

I agree 100% about the "coy and shocked" part, as if it was surprise to him. He'd also tease with "Darling Nikki" in that sample set he did. What's sad about that is it's almost like he was struggling to just play the fucking song but his dogmatic brainwashing wouldn't let him. Just sing "masturbating!"

I always said I just want to hear Prince say "fuck" again.

And as far as being condescended to, the way he went off on women's places and theocratic order, etc., - OMG dude, just shut the fuck up. No one wants to chant "THEOCRATIC ORDAH!" I think of Miko or Levi in GB saying, "Man, this is embarassing!"

This and This!

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic. There is no defense for this collection of material. For live stuff, Hit n Run tour was his worst tour. Nothing to get excited about except that it was Prince onstage.

Some people are sort of dancing around it, quoting dates but...

Prince lost his album superpowers, after Crystal Ball. So that's everything, after the year 1998. So, 1999 onward.

I did like 1 or 2 songs on his main musical output, but some of the other stuff like the Slaughterhouse or other albums like One Night Alone I didn't like at all.