Strive said:

RODSERLING said:

The 3 year gap was because Prince couldn't find a record house, plain and simple. After 2007, no label wanted to work under Prince s conditions. . He tried to Fuck WB in the 90's He fucked BMG with Emancipation He fucked Arista wit Rave ( he even received an paycheck in advance of 11 millions $) He fucked Sony with the release of Planet Earth in the daily mail, He fucked Universal with the promotion of 3121. . So like he literally tried to fuck every label, his only chance was to go back to WB. WB was interested only because Prince was supposed to give in exchange the Purple Rain Deluxe they wanted so much. Moreover, WB had a back catalogue to sell, contrary to other record houses, so it was more profitable. . Eventually he fucked WB once more by not giving them what they wanted. [Edited 2/21/20 5:39am]

Don't forget about him trying to cancel the 20Ten release at the 11th hour only for them to hold him to his CONtract.

Did other famous musicians/entertainers, ie., David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen also do business this way?

Trying to figure out if this is Prince behaviour or behaviour common to the famous?

databank said:

While IDK nothing for a fact, I have an alternative hypothesis to offer to this. Kobalt was indeed indie but by no way "small" (see their roster, which I remember was already as impressive back in 2014: https://www.kobaltmusic.com/roster/all).

It's an impressive list, but they're set up like an accounting platform for the publishing instead of a full label, and I'd wonder how exclusive their deals with people like Bjork or Beck are (I stopped at the B's). Having an infrastructure platform partner would have suited him...but the distribution pick up deal with a major was obviously the better option.

Hard to imagine the indie rock indie labels wouldn't have been thrilled to release Prince just to have his name on their roster.

Plus there were labels like XL Recordings that strike me as a good match that never was.

MIRvmn said:

ed 10 albums between 2010-2014. I also read that he recorded over 100 songs with 3RDEYEGIRL

Must be counting the protege type projects like Andy Allo and Judith Hill. There's also the orchestrated music he'd talked about as songwriting breakthrough for him (around the time he did press on Baltimore).

Prince apparently taped all the 3rd Eye pratice sessions and they didn't know when they were jammng, or learning a song and recording a record. He was writing good songs but they could have also just sounded like 100 variations of Peach.

lavendardrummachine said:

databank said:

While IDK nothing for a fact, I have an alternative hypothesis to offer to this. Kobalt was indeed indie but by no way "small" (see their roster, which I remember was already as impressive back in 2014: https://www.kobaltmusic.com/roster/all).

It's an impressive list, but they're set up like an accounting platform for the publishing instead of a full label, and I'd wonder how exclusive their deals with people like Bjork or Beck are (I stopped at the B's). Having an infrastructure platform partner would have suited him...but the distribution pick up deal with a major was obviously the better option.

Hard to imagine the indie rock indie labels wouldn't have been thrilled to release Prince just to have his name on their roster.

Plus there were labels like XL Recordings that strike me as a good match that never was.

Kobalt was also who signed the music group KING through Prince. Kobalt doesn't really have a strong enough distribution infrastructure. They're great for royalties and sync rights, though, and for "digital distribution". Prince needed mass digital and physical distribution at his level and Kobalt wasn't able to do that.

TrcikyChristopher said:

RODSERLING said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Kobalt was also who signed the music group KING through Prince. Kobalt doesn't really have a strong enough distribution infrastructure. They're great for royalties and sync rights, though, and for "digital distribution". Prince needed mass digital and physical distribution at his level and Kobalt wasn't able to do that.

Yes, at the time it seemed like a desperate attempt at releasing an album nobody wanted. . It was like a commercial suicide to release it without music videos, Screwdriver, live tracks such as Let's Go Crazy, She's always in my hair... Easily the worst Prince album ever, strange he really pushed that hard to release it for years, when it was obvious it wasn't worth it at all. . I already said it at the time, but it was even stranger he pushed that hard too for AOA to be released the same day. The album was an all time low, he didn't even care to produce it. At the time I was the only saying there was a true problem with this album and the way it was produced and promotes. Nobody cared. . But the 2010-21014 years were proof that Prince health was clearly deteriorating. I would say even the 2012 year was clearly a pivot year, with his ridiculous afro wig and the 3rd Syed Girl Band that was terrible. [Edited 2/23/20 15:24pm]

I thought his health was noticeably deteriorating from 2013 onwards.

There was an OD in 2011 but I thought he rallied until 2013.

RODSERLING said:

Vannormal said:

Militant said:

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

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Still strange that no one (yet) openend up about it.

Prince is dead, who could possibly harm them with spredding more info on that (issue you're mentioning)?

Respect ?

Are there still some sort of contractual obligations ?

To painful or embarrassing to be told ?

To be honest, that could be very interesting, considdering all that happened after this.

-

So if they/someone told you this... what is the reason to not make it public?

It's only we Prince fans that are interested in this kind of info.

no ?

-

Maybe these people are just loyal and don't feel it's right to share. I've heard there were really bad times with Whitney Houston when she was living in Atlanta that have never been fully disclosed. Could be something similar. I've seen interviews with band members who say she was the best boss they ever had so it could just be a loyalty thing. Elisa has hinted at things but I don't expect Shelby, Liv or any of the 3EG members to ever talk about it (assuming they know things). They just have to much love and respect. Kim Berry or one of his managers...who knows, I don't necessarily trust them to stay quite, especially not Kim (who I've lost all respect for).

RODSERLING said:

Yes, at the time it seemed like a desperate attempt at releasing an album nobody wanted. . It was like a commercial suicide to release it without music videos, Screwdriver, live tracks such as Let's Go Crazy, She's always in my hair... Easily the worst Prince album ever, strange he really pushed that hard to release it for years, when it was obvious it wasn't worth it at all. .

Yeah a band that couldn't really play his music yet (they improved) was confusing, but I wouldn't say nobody wanted it, they just wanted it more self actualized. If you meant labels...yeah, hard to say if Prince even shopped it around though.

There were videos, and there was also that live thing with all the effects that looked like it was shot with webcams for streaming broadcast over RealAudio circa 1998.

I guess this is also when Prince is at his most accesible. He's on social media, and even just having Funkberry to confirm the after shows was something.

I liked the afro. The Andy Allo period was odd, but the afro and a hipper style seemed more modern and a reference to his old style. I mean, it was cool at first...

Phase3 said:

RODSERLING said:

Yes, at the time it seemed like a desperate attempt at releasing an album nobody wanted. . It was like a commercial suicide to release it without music videos, Screwdriver, live tracks such as Let's Go Crazy, She's always in my hair... Easily the worst Prince album ever, strange he really pushed that hard to release it for years, when it was obvious it wasn't worth it at all. . I already said it at the time, but it was even stranger he pushed that hard too for AOA to be released the same day. The album was an all time low, he didn't even care to produce it. At the time I was the only saying there was a true problem with this album and the way it was produced and promotes. Nobody cared. . But the 2010-21014 years were proof that Prince health was clearly deteriorating. I would say even the 2012 year was clearly a pivot year, with his ridiculous afro wig and the 3rd Syed Girl Band that was terrible. [Edited 2/23/20 15:24pm]

Art official age was a all time low? There must be something in the water your drinking? It's better than both HITNRUN albums plus it has many great songs.Way back home,the breakdown.Those 2 are in my top 20 of all time favorite prince songs.It was the last amazing album Prince put out.

Same. Disagree with 2 things from that post.

AoA was one of his stronger later albums, IMO. Doesn't matter who prodcued it.

No way the was a wig afro either. If it had been, it would have been shaped tightly annd several times it wan't.

Rehab from the Org seems most probable.

bonatoc said:

Rehab from the Org seems most probable.

-

LOL

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TrcikyChristopher said:

Militant said:

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

There was also the incident in L.A. in 2011, where he had to have his stomach pumped at Cedars-Sinai and nearly died. I was told at the time that we were VERY close to losing him then and that it was also a major reason why he and Sheila fell out at the time (and why she stayed within arm's reach out of true concern).

heartbreaking to read these - recall reading similar a while back. Guess we were lucky to have him until 2016.

PeggyO said:

Strive said:

Don't forget about him trying to cancel the 20Ten release at the 11th hour only for them to hold him to his CONtract.

Did other famous musicians/entertainers, ie., David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen also do business this way?

Trying to figure out if this is Prince behaviour or behaviour common to the famous?

Woody Allen tried to get his movies pulled a few times when he thought they turned out poor like Manhattan. With September he got the studio to let him reshoot entirely after a first version was already complete and ready for release.

Dunno of musical examples, but I'm always looking for that Prince quote I once found where he compaired his work ethic/philosophy behind his work ethic to Woody Allen's. I've always found them quite parallel in that regard. I think Woody only has like 2-3 years of his career when he didn't release a film every year as well. Around 40 Prince albums, around 50 Woody Allen films, etc.

WhisperingDandelions said:

PeggyO said:

Did other famous musicians/entertainers, ie., David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen also do business this way?

Trying to figure out if this is Prince behaviour or behaviour common to the famous?

Woody Allen tried to get his movies pulled a few times when he thought they turned out poor like Manhattan. With September he got the studio to let him reshoot entirely after a first version was already complete and ready for release.

Dunno of musical examples, but I'm always looking for that Prince quote I once found where he compaired his work ethic/philosophy behind his work ethic to Woody Allen's. I've always found them quite parallel in that regard. I think Woody only has like 2-3 years of his career when he didn't release a film every year as well. Around 40 Prince albums, around 50 Woody Allen films, etc.

Interesting info, thx.

WhisperingDandelions said:

PeggyO said:

Did other famous musicians/entertainers, ie., David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen also do business this way?

Trying to figure out if this is Prince behaviour or behaviour common to the famous?

Woody Allen tried to get his movies pulled a few times when he thought they turned out poor like Manhattan. With September he got the studio to let him reshoot entirely after a first version was already complete and ready for release.

Dunno of musical examples, but I'm always looking for that Prince quote I once found where he compaired his work ethic/philosophy behind his work ethic to Woody Allen's. I've always found them quite parallel in that regard. I think Woody only has like 2-3 years of his career when he didn't release a film every year as well. Around 40 Prince albums, around 50 Woody Allen films, etc.

Woody Allen should have pulled out of a few other things. Fuck him. I like some of his movies but he's one of those dudes where I can't separate the artist from the art.

...

As an artist myself though, I can speak to how common it is for how often other people really like stuff that I've created which I don't particularly care for or consider my best work. I think it has to do with the intimacy and, often, the degree of difficulty surrounding pulling it off. You get a picture of what you're TRYING to do in your head and the result almost NEVER matches it so a lot of times you consider it a failure. If an artist worked particularly hard on something (or, conversely, just managed to toss it out quick or one off it), the tendency is to gauge its success based soley on the amount of effort.

Like, a guitar riff can be REALLY hard to play - or a song - but that doesn't make it GOOD all by itself.

even when I work commercially, it happens CONSTANTLY. I'll do a spread sheet with 4 or 5 logo ideas and the client always picks my least favorite. I have a few paintings I've HATED that I managed to sell with ease and several personal favorites that just adorn my house.

herb4 said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Woody Allen tried to get his movies pulled a few times when he thought they turned out poor like Manhattan. With September he got the studio to let him reshoot entirely after a first version was already complete and ready for release.

Dunno of musical examples, but I'm always looking for that Prince quote I once found where he compaired his work ethic/philosophy behind his work ethic to Woody Allen's. I've always found them quite parallel in that regard. I think Woody only has like 2-3 years of his career when he didn't release a film every year as well. Around 40 Prince albums, around 50 Woody Allen films, etc.

Woody Allen should have pulled out of a few other things. Fuck him. I like some of his movies but he's one of those dudes where I can't separate the artist from the art.

I see what you did there

did Prince intentionally but out B materisal rather than A because he figured it wasnt selling anyway??

so why bother

jfenster said:

did Prince intentionally but out B materisal rather than A because he figured it wasnt selling anyway??

so why bother

I doubt it. I think the "why bother" was trying to sell music in an environment where almost everything is free and there's little financial reward to it. I seem to remember he continued to tour extensively during this "gap" and that's where he could make his cash.