RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Except that, even if no major would sign him anymore (and we don't know that for a fact since it's not documented - it's a reasonable hypothesis, but a purely speculative one), he could still have released the records himself online or thru any smaller label, so I don't think it has anything to do with this.

Yeah, and he gets the distribution deal through Universal, and negotiates a Tidal deal. He's also still calling record deals "slavery" at the same time.

Didn't a small label also announce a big multi record deal just before that never manifested?

lavendardrummachine said:

databank said:

Except that, even if no major would sign him anymore (and we don't know that for a fact since it's not documented - it's a reasonable hypothesis, but a purely speculative one), he could still have released the records himself online or thru any smaller label, so I don't think it has anything to do with this.

Yeah, and he gets the distribution deal through Universal, and negotiates a Tidal deal. He's also still calling record deals "slavery" at the same time.

Didn't a small label also announce a big multi record deal just before that never manifested?

Purple Music? (the label)

I think they had a big announcement but only ever put out some singles.

databank?

lavendardrummachine said:

databank said:

Except that, even if no major would sign him anymore (and we don't know that for a fact since it's not documented - it's a reasonable hypothesis, but a purely speculative one), he could still have released the records himself online or thru any smaller label, so I don't think it has anything to do with this.

Yeah, and he gets the distribution deal through Universal, and negotiates a Tidal deal. He's also still calling record deals "slavery" at the same time.

Didn't a small label also announce a big multi record deal just before that never manifested?

Kobalt? Or was that just a publishing deal? I forget. That news blip seemed to come and go very quickly.

renfield said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Yeah, and he gets the distribution deal through Universal, and negotiates a Tidal deal. He's also still calling record deals "slavery" at the same time.

Didn't a small label also announce a big multi record deal just before that never manifested?

Kobalt? Or was that just a publishing deal? I forget. That news blip seemed to come and go very quickly.

It was Kobalt. They were going to release PLECTRUM. On one of the interviews during the time, there's a part where the ladies sign the contract on the tour bus. Always felt a bit staged, that part.

renfield said:

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

The 3 year gap was because Prince couldn't find a record house, plain and simple. After 2007, no label wanted to work under Prince s conditions. . He tried to Fuck WB in the 90's He fucked BMG with Emancipation He fucked Arista wit Rave ( he even received an paycheck in advance of 11 millions $) He fucked Sony with the release of Planet Earth in the daily mail, He fucked Universal with the promotion of 3121. . So like he literally tried to fuck every label, his only chance was to go back to WB. WB was interested only because Prince was supposed to give in exchange the Purple Rain Deluxe they wanted so much. Moreover, WB had a back catalogue to sell, contrary to other record houses, so it was more profitable. . Eventually he fucked WB once more by not giving them what they wanted. [Edited 2/21/20 5:39am]

Don't forget about him trying to cancel the 20Ten release at the 11th hour only for them to hold him to his CONtract.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

Purple Music? (the label)

I think they had a big announcement but only ever put out some singles.

databank?

Maybe them, too. I don't remember any announcement beyond the few singles but I could have forgotten.

Thanks. I forgot about Kobalt. Think I mixed up the two.

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

Militant said:

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

Interesting, thx. However someone who worked in the studio with him during these exact "gap" years told me that as far as they could tell, Prince recorded as frantically as ever in the years 2011-2013, and since touring and recording takes more efforts than compiling and releasing records, I still would assume it had little to do with his health issues, no matter how serious they may have been.

Militant said:

This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

I think it's Judith Hill (I can't think who else it would have been) that mentioned hearing second hand about a previous OD type of incident. But it sounds like you heard more than she did.

Doesn't he keep Shelby and Ida around after?

Also interesting about that time frame is he's rekindling some of the old friendships around Welcome to America then Bobby Z. has the heart attack and there's the Revolution reunion in 2011. He supposedly had been toying with the idea of working with them (and I think years later he is saying it's just a matter of timing), but they hold that reunion show with his guitar front and center on stage, performing the songs without him in tribute, hoping he walks in. Given the information you just shared, how strange is that.

Militant said:

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

There was also the incident in L.A. in 2011, where he had to have his stomach pumped at Cedars-Sinai and nearly died. I was told at the time that we were VERY close to losing him then and that it was also a major reason why he and Sheila fell out at the time (and why she stayed within arm's reach out of true concern).

Militant said:

For what it's worth - I've been told there was "an incident" on the Welcome 2 Australia tour. An incident with painkillers. I was told this by someone that was in the band and on the tour, and witnessed it first hand. This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

So the idea that health issues contributed to the gap probably has some truth to it. And the fact that he "cleared house" not long after this..... Well, it's not difficult to figure out why. Damn near everyone that knew or witnessed this got removed from the picture not long after.

-

Still strange that no one (yet) openend up about it.

Prince is dead, who could possibly harm them with spredding more info on that (issue you're mentioning)?

Respect ?

Are there still some sort of contractual obligations ?

To painful or embarrassing to be told ?

To be honest, that could be very interesting, considdering all that happened after this.

-

So if they/someone told you this... what is the reason to not make it public?

It's only we Prince fans that are interested in this kind of info.

no ?

-

Vannormal said:

databank said:

databank said:

databank said:

Strive said:

Militant said:

databank said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Militant said:

This hasn't been publicly documented as far as I know, and there are walls of silence between the people that were around so I wouldn't expect it to.

I think it's Judith Hill (I can't think who else it would have been) that mentioned hearing second hand about a previous OD type of incident. But it sounds like you heard more than she did.

Doesn't he keep Shelby and Ida around after?

Also interesting about that time frame is he's rekindling some of the old friendships around Welcome to America then Bobby Z. has the heart attack and there's the Revolution reunion in 2011. He supposedly had been toying with the idea of working with them (and I think years later he is saying it's just a matter of timing), but they hold that reunion show with his guitar front and center on stage, performing the songs without him in tribute, hoping he walks in. Given the information you just shared, how strange is that.

shelby seems the most trustworthy friend you could have i would keep her too..

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Except that, even if no major would sign him anymore (and we don't know that for a fact since it's not documented - it's a reasonable hypothesis, but a purely speculative one), he could still have released the records himself online or thru any smaller label, so I don't think it has anything to do with this.

Except that he wanted to sell his albums to a large audience. Look what happened in return with the HitnRun albums, sold very confidentially. By the way he also fucked Tidal by releasing HitnRun physically, since it was supposed to be a streaming/digital exclusivity.

There is no doubt P was a pain in the ass when it came to making business with him as a label, and that there was a big contradiction between the way he bashed majors and kept getting back working with them (a freed slave criticizing slave trade while at the same time conducting business with people who still own slaves, if we're to use P's own words). Wanting a major because he wanted a big advance was his problem, and it may be no majors wanted him anymore (we don't have proof of that, but it's a reasonable hypothesis), but just to be clear, I find it unfair to say about this that no "label" (or "record house" as you said) would sign P, because it implies that there is no alternative between majors and self-distribution, when you have hundreds of small labels struggling to exist. I think all these indie labels and their artists deserve recognition: they exist, they work hard, they produce a lot of quality music, and kids should be told about them, not led to believe that the music industry is limited to the big 3 corporate majors

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Yes it was Kobalt. It appears P let them down to go back to WB.

He let Kobalt down because it was a small label and he wanted his releases to be big. For Lotus Flower, only a small label in France was eager to release it. They said after his death that Prince never bored to ask his royalties.

While IDK nothing for a fact, I have an alternative hypothesis to offer to this. Kobalt was indeed indie but by no way "small" (see their roster, which I remember was already as impressive back in 2014: https://www.kobaltmusic.com/roster/all). My hypothesis is that when negociating with WB, P planned, as announced, to release Plec with Kobalt as planned but WB said "you ain't competing our AOA with Kobalt's Plec", and this probably led to heated negociations with WB trying to have P give up on Plec altogether and P trying to force Plec upon WB because he'd release it with or without them, and WB eventually prefered to have both records than a record competing with another label's record. Pure speculation on my part but makes sense, because if any indie had the means to support a record, it was Kobalt. I really hope one day we get to learn about these 2014 negociations with WB anyway. Someone has to speak!!

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Also, Emancipation was EMI not BMG and I'm not aware of them being unhappy with him and Emancipation. I'm also not sure what happened with Universal and 3121 (though I know there were issues leading to the cancelation of Milk & Honey but I never knew the specifics. Not saying you are wrong in either case but could you source your info? I'm aware of the other issues with WB, Arista and Sony, though, so he undeniably had a bad rep in the majors industry. I just would like to know where your info on Emancipation and 3121 comes from

You re right it s EMI, not BMG ! EMI didn't want his cover of Betcha as a lead single, IIRC they wanted something like Facedown. They went away with that, but despite a lot of airplay, the album didn't sell. . They paid a huge amount of Money to Prince in advance but the album was a commercial flop. Eventually when they tried to release Facedown, EMI was broke, going through a financial crisis. . For 3121, Dr Funkenberry stated some years ago that Prince didn't get along with Universal promotional plan. I remember that Universal wanted Prince to go in France make a lot of TV and awards, the plan was released to the press. . Prince didn't do anything of that list. . He was also mad at appearing at Pop Idol, whereas it was a chance for the album to get more exposure, a chance negociated by Universal. Then he didn't play anything from 3121 in the Superbowl. . It just shows that it doesn't worth investing in Prince when he is so reluctant to play the game of the promotion.

I didn't know any of this, thx I had also forgotten about the mess with 20ten mentioned above.

This has been a hugely interesting thread...thanks to everyone, I learned so much.

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

databank said: He let Kobalt down because it was a small label and he wanted his releases to be big. For Lotus Flower, only a small label in France was eager to release it. They said after his death that Prince never bored to ask his royalties.

While IDK nothing for a fact, I have an alternative hypothesis to offer to this. Kobalt was indeed indie but by no way "small" (see their roster, which I remember was already as impressive back in 2014: https://www.kobaltmusic.com/roster/all). My hypothesis is that when negociating with WB, P planned, as announced, to release Plec with Kobalt as planned but WB said "you ain't competing our AOA with Kobalt's Plec", and this probably led to heated negociations with WB trying to have P give up on Plec altogether and P trying to force Plec upon WB because he'd release it with or without them, and WB eventually prefered to have both records than a record competing with another label's record. Pure speculation on my part but makes sense, because if any indie had the means to support a record, it was Kobalt. I really hope one day we get to learn about these 2014 negociations with WB anyway. Someone has to speak!!

makes sense. by that time Plec had been dangled before us for so long (and it had gone through
several tracklists i'm sure) that he just had to shit or get off the pot with 3rdEyeGirl and he could
not in good conscience (regarding the band) delay the project any longer.

obviously he probably thought AOA was the stronger album since he didn't push that on (which
we knew very little about at that point) on the back burner.

Whatever happend to the follow up of Plectrum Electrum? Remember the 3rdEyeGirl youtube page where they showd footage of the recording season with the orchestra saying its for the follow up... Guess he changed gears with the Tidal deal for HitnRun.

but he recorded many albums during that span..

feeluupp said:

Whatever happend to the follow up of Plectrum Electrum? Remember the 3rdEyeGirl youtube page where they showd footage of the recording season with the orchestra saying its for the follow up... Guess he changed gears with the Tidal deal for HitnRun.

i think a second 3rdEyeGirl album would have been released, had he had the time to continue
all the projects he was juggling from 2015 into early 2016.