CAL3 said:

To suggest that Prince would've sorted through hundreds of hours of tape and destroyed anything he feared might see the light of day if he were to die unexpectedly is... illogical and unrealstic thinking.

.

Well to be fair, all Prince would have needed to do is write to literally anyone a legal note saying "hey dudes don't release these when I die", it would take little time and effort if he really didn't want any posthumous releases with this material. I know that he had his own belief system and all that, however to me at this point the inaction when he was alive speaks more volumes than even anything else even if he randomly decided the last years of his life something different do what he said many times before

[Edited 12/11/19 12:40pm]

Prince was a hoarder who viewed any song not released as a song that was unfinished. When he pulled a song back out to rework, he usually changed it to fit where he was at the moment. Extraloveable became Xtraloveable Reloaded loaded with horns. 1000 Hugs & Kisses became a dark electronic groove called 1000 Xs & 0s. Purple Music got new lyrics to reflect his most recent struggles. As far as we know, he never destroyed any songs short of recording over top of the master. Even then there were cassettes made that he kept.


Death is a deep sleep where he's unaware of what's happening, according to his religion, and he was at peace, as much as a human can be, with taking his place in history. He kept everything and planned to turn his home into a museum while he was still alive.


It's weird to say that his unreleased musical work or personal notes is a bridge too far while there's pictures of his home and his corpse online for all to see.


The only real choice is to let the chips fall where they may by providing accurate and complete releases. Trying to make vault content's fit today's standards or trends is a fool's errand.

ForceofNature said:

CAL3 said:

.

Well to be fair, all Prince would have needed to do is write to literally anyone a legal note saying "hey dudes don't release these when I die", it would take little time and effort if he really didn't want any posthumous releases with this material. I know that he had his own belief system and all that, however to me at this point the inaction when he was alive speaks more volumes than even anything else even if he randomly decided the last years of his life something different do what he said many times before

[Edited 12/11/19 12:40pm]

.

I get what you're saying. And it sucks that he didn't have any concrete plans in place for his demise. And it sucks even worse that he met his demise so relatively early in life. And we'll never know why he didn't make plans.

.

It's too bad the vault didn't contain voluminous notes outlining exactly what to do with this, that, and the other. So it all is left to speculation. And personal point of view, as far as how one feels about the dissemination and distribution of his unfinished body of work. Some, all, or none of which might have seen the light of day had he lived longer.

.

There's nothing wrong with having some level of conflict in decided to participate in the consumption of this music, curated by people who in some cases had very little to do with him on a personal level. A committee of individuals who are left to figure out how to make money from his legacy. And decide what is or isn't worth hearing. Doesn't mean I - or anyone - can't or shouldn't enjoy these vault releases, much in the same way people enjoy bootlegs, before he died or after. It is what it is, for that individual person.

.

For me personally, there is sadness involved in listening to everything that has been released since he died and I imagine I'm not the only one who feels that way. For others, maybe there isn't that feeling at all. And that's fine too. I used to listen to - and practically salivate over - the boots, eagerly anticipating the day Prince would revisit things, re-work things (hopefully for the better) or just decide to finally start officially dropping some of these things. So for me personally there was a very different aura surrounding the sharing and discussing-of the many hours of booted material.

.

The material surfacing in this way - without every really know how Prince would have ended up handling any of it - clouds the experience with a very deep melancholy.

.

So... mixed feelings... that's what I think the OP was talking about and what I'm trying to empathize with. Many folks seem very definitive and confident that their point of view is the only one or the correct one, or whatever. To each their own. Just a discussion.

ForceofNature said:

From a philisophical perspective though, should any of us feel guilty for listening to music that Prince apparently never thought to write any sort of "yo guys don't release these when I am gone" declaration to anyone, at anytime, for any reason in his entire lifetime? Prince technically did follow through with the "these will be released when I am dead" thing by the fact he did not declare anything to the contrary in his entire life legally, or otherwise to anyone.

P NEVER left anything up to chance. Never. Ever.

He controlled every aspect of his life moreso than anyone ever.....

P wanted his unreleased music to be heard.

Prince was the king of discipline, really, beyond disciplined, in every aspect of his life. He recorded this music to be heard, and has stated as such in several interviews. The most recent being Arsenio where he said "someone will release it". If he didn't want it released, you can be darn sure he would have made that known many times over the decades.

Enjoy it without guilt, it is a gift.

[Edited 12/12/19 1:08am]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ForceofNature said:

From a philisophical perspective though, should any of us feel guilty for listening to music that Prince apparently never thought to write any sort of "yo guys don't release these when I am gone" declaration to anyone, at anytime, for any reason in his entire lifetime? Prince technically did follow through with the "these will be released when I am dead" thing by the fact he did not declare anything to the contrary in his entire life legally, or otherwise to anyone.

P NEVER left anything up to chance. Never. Ever.

He controlled every aspect of his life moreso than anyone ever.....

P wanted his unreleased music to be heard.

.

My main point is just simply that we don't know that he wanted his unreleased music - en masse - to be heard. We don't. We never will. What does that mean, if anything? That's up to each person to decide.

.

But it's just silly to take rather general statements to the effect of "someone will release" to mean that the exact path taken by the Estate is precisely what he meant. These relatively vague statements can't effectively be twisted and molded into representing anything resembling a blueprint for posthumous releases. He didn't expect to die, he didn't plan on it, and everything after that is guesswork. Guesswork by the Estate and by the fans as to what might or might not have transpired.

.

Prince said a lot of things throughout his life that didn't end up being the path he took. He was going to stop touring. He was going to stop recording new music. He was named a symbol and not Prince. He was going to re-record everyone of his WB albums from scratch. He was never going to play the big hits in concert again. Proclamations like these are part of what made his career fascinating, but imagine if he'd passed after making any one of them.

.

Flat statements like he "wanted his unreleased music to be heard" are - at best - just interpretations, and - at worst - distorted fantasies.

CAL3 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P NEVER left anything up to chance. Never. Ever.

He controlled every aspect of his life moreso than anyone ever.....

P wanted his unreleased music to be heard.

.

My main point is just simply that we don't know that he wanted his unreleased music - en masse - to be heard. We don't. We never will. What does that mean, if anything? That's up to each person to decide.

.

But it's just silly to take rather general statements to the effect of "someone will release" to mean that the exact path taken by the Estate is precisely what he meant. These relatively vague statements can't effectively be twisted and molded into representing anything resembling a blueprint for posthumous releases. He didn't expect to die, he didn't plan on it, and everything after that is guesswork. Guesswork by the Estate and by the fans as to what might or might not have transpired.

.

Prince said a lot of things throughout his life that didn't end up being the path he took. He was going to stop touring. He was going to stop recording new music. He was named a symbol and not Prince. He was going to re-record everyone of his WB albums from scratch. He was never going to play the big hits in concert again. Proclamations like these are part of what made his career fascinating, but imagine if he'd passed after making any one of them.

.

Flat statements like he "wanted his unreleased music to be heard" are - at best - just interpretations, and - at worst - distorted fantasies.

None of those have a corresponding actionable in their aftermath that involves the market or his fans. That is to say, if any of those things were said and were true, it begs nothing of the fans. Saying "someone is going to release my music [that I am preserving in a vault and providing instructions for how to access specific things via the catalog system]" yields the actionable of fans purchasing the music (or being given the choice to). The issue isn't about a blueprint for release or whether Prince wanted something like Originals or for those demos to be on expanded sets, etc.

.

Saying "I hope nobody releaes my music when I am dead" is something Prince absolutely could have said. It is something he absolutely would've been given (and was given) countless opportunities to say. Yet here we are - left with just what he actually said, which was (in essence) that this was an inevitability.

.

It doesn't need to be interpreted. It was directly stated: someone will release my music. How much simpler than that does it even get?

CAL3 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P NEVER left anything up to chance. Never. Ever.

He controlled every aspect of his life moreso than anyone ever.....

P wanted his unreleased music to be heard.

.

My main point is just simply that we don't know that he wanted his unreleased music - en masse - to be heard. We don't. We never will. What does that mean, if anything? That's up to each person to decide.

.

But it's just silly to take rather general statements to the effect of "someone will release" to mean that the exact path taken by the Estate is precisely what he meant. These relatively vague statements can't effectively be twisted and molded into representing anything resembling a blueprint for posthumous releases. He didn't expect to die, he didn't plan on it, and everything after that is guesswork. Guesswork by the Estate and by the fans as to what might or might not have transpired.

.

Prince said a lot of things throughout his life that didn't end up being the path he took. He was going to stop touring. He was going to stop recording new music. He was named a symbol and not Prince. He was going to re-record everyone of his WB albums from scratch. He was never going to play the big hits in concert again. Proclamations like these are part of what made his career fascinating, but imagine if he'd passed after making any one of them.

.

Flat statements like he "wanted his unreleased music to be heard" are - at best - just interpretations, and - at worst - distorted fantasies.

[color=blue]I think that I relate to what you are saying CAL3, but the one thing we are missing and will always be missing is Prince's agency in this. He left this world without a will, and trying to second guess his intentions won't work, because we really didn't know his mind.

For me anyway, the best thing we can do is celebrate his legacy as we see fit.For me that means listening to everything in the vault we have the opportunity to, for others that may mean only focusing on material he made available through official means during his lifetime.I think that the choice is yours,your agency,and I respect whatever choice you make as I hope he would [\color]

Prince had agency a-plenty.

He DECIDED not to leave a will. He knew what that meant.

There is no moral quandary now about listening to music he didn't release.

Prince is dead. He doesn't have an opinion on it.

Wally now.

Thanks guys, I've been reading your responses over the week and I do feel a bit better about the vault stuff. I had done my own research previously and like other people said a lot of it is stuff that's either been previously bootlegged or slated for release on Crystal Ball II, Roadhouse Garden, or what have you. There is some stuff I don't have much interest in listening to (Originals for instance) but my feelings on the distribution of the vault's contents as a whole have been put at ease. Pleasure having this discussion

iibloxorz said:

Thanks guys, I've been reading your responses over the week and I do feel a bit better about the vault stuff. I had done my own research previously and like other people said a lot of it is stuff that's either been previously bootlegged or slated for release on Crystal Ball II, Roadhouse Garden, or what have you. There is some stuff I don't have much interest in listening to (Originals for instance) but my feelings on the distribution of the vault's contents as a whole have been put at ease. Pleasure having this discussion

One thing you have to remember too is that most of this is coming out with the approval of the Estate, so that's something. His own family are involved (that could start a whole debate, but it's blood relatives having input . . . closest thing to Prince and not various bandmembers or uber-fans like Questlove).

Back when all of the Jimi Hendrix re-issues were a hot mess, once the Estate got control everything was much more organized and with more quality control.

NouveauDance said:

As has been said. If Prince was serious about no one hearing his vault material it would have either made it known by those close to him or he would've destroyed what he forbade people to hear. And of course his comment about antipatating someone someday would release this stuff.

Of course he clearly wasn't expecting to die suddenly so whether he would've destroyed some of the vault materials we'll never know. Certainly he was keeping much of it in case he wanted to go back and fish something out to use or rework.

To be honest I don't honestly care what his wishes were. I want to hear it. He's dead and hopefully trasncended this planet in a conscious state. And before you call me insensitive for saying I don't care what he wanted remember that many of y'all didn't care while he was alive as you snatched up every bootleg you could.