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Thread started 12/01/19 4:17am

christobole

Songs to be censored - can you think of any?

As the 1999 box and omission of Extraloveable / Lust U Alwys shows, musical mediocrity is of no concern when releasing Vault tracks, it's the lyrics that arouse the censors' snips. Are there any other candidates that are likely to remain unreleased because of lyrics that might be deemed offensive? Anything from the Parade, Sign eras? Please discuss wink

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Reply #1 posted 12/01/19 7:05am

coldasice

That’s what he wrote back then leve them alone and release them. Omitting those two songs was absolutely ridiculous
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Reply #2 posted 12/01/19 7:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

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They should have been included... either as cut... with an edit or a garble... (like that Tom Petty song when they used to alter the word "Joint." But at least they did finally address it...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #3 posted 12/01/19 7:18am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Also what about "Sarah" or "Bob George" or the movie "Purple Rain" they all have violence against woman...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #4 posted 12/01/19 7:31am

djThunderfunk

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No edits. No censorship. Just put it out as an exclusive directly to fans. Leave them off streaming services and high profile releases and all should be good.

The songs are already "out there" right? They've appeared on youtube and anybody that wants them can find them, hear them, and complain about them already. No?

Where's the backlash? I've only heard "US" talk about it and "WE" can deal with it like mature adults.



[Edited 12/1/19 7:34am]

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #5 posted 12/01/19 12:21pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

djThunderfunk said:

No edits. No censorship. Just put it out as an exclusive directly to fans. Leave them off streaming services and high profile releases and all should be good.

The songs are already "out there" right? They've appeared on youtube and anybody that wants them can find them, hear them, and complain about them already. No?

Where's the backlash? I've only heard "US" talk about it and "WE" can deal with it like mature adults.



[Edited 12/1/19 7:34am]


yeahthat

If there are edits and censorship then it ruins it.

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #6 posted 12/01/19 1:51pm

jazzz

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Also what about "Sarah" or "Bob George" or the movie "Purple Rain" they all have violence against woman...


.
The next reissue of the Purple Rain movie will be without the scene where the girl gets dumped in the trash bin, and also without the “you get my seat all wet” and “Lake Minnetonka” scenes. #metoo #seatallwet #Purifyyourself
.
.
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Reply #7 posted 12/01/19 1:53pm

Vannormal

avatar

-

No.

Not one !

Nothing.

Nada.

Rien.

Niks

Niets.

Nul.

Zero.

Nichts.

Niente.

Geen.

-

Censorship is something SOOOOOO American.

-

[Edited 12/1/19 13:55pm]

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #8 posted 12/01/19 2:06pm

jazzz

Vannormal said:

-


No.


Not one !


Nothing.


Nada.


Rien.


Niks


Niets.


Nul.


Zero.


Nichts.


Niente.


Geen.


-


Censorship is something SOOOOO American.


-


[Edited 12/1/19 13:55pm]


.
Yeah, #metoo & #grabthembythepu$$y!!!
.
.
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Reply #9 posted 12/01/19 2:16pm

jazzz

What about “Papa”, that’s also a *work of art* addressing the topic of abuse. Just from another perspective though.
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Reply #10 posted 12/01/19 3:46pm

Strive

WB treats the Looney Tunes' audience with more respect than Prince's fanbase. lol

Only songs I can think of that will probably never be officially released are Schoolyard and certain live versions of Return Of The Bump Squad ("I got something for your headache")


But who knows, Horny Toad made 1999 Deluxe and that's way more over the line than Extralovable. Nobody even mentioned it while they were complaining about the scream at the end of DSMR and parts of Let's Pretend We're Married.

Free the music, fire Michael Howe
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Reply #11 posted 12/01/19 4:55pm

callimnate

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I'm surprised to see so much common sense on this page/thread!

NONE of Princes songs should be censored. And ALL should be released!

Fark the minority who believe some should be censored or not released at all. mad

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Reply #12 posted 12/01/19 10:53pm

strongoxman1

Has it been confirmed or is it just rampant speculation that Extraloveable and Lust U Always were omitted from this release for these reasons? I've tried to find something definitive, but so far I haven't come across anything concrete or even strongly suggestive.

Regardless, if the rumored Vanity vocal track of Extraloveable exists, I would think that a release with her singing those lyrics would greatly lessen their sting and controversy, and this would then open the door for a later, Originals-type release of Prince's vocal track. If WB/The Estate actually decided to omit releasing these tracks on the 1999 remaster set due to the lyrical content, I would hope releasing at least Extraloveable in this "backdoor" manner could still be on the table, as that song is simply incredible.

[Edited 12/1/19 22:54pm]

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Reply #13 posted 12/02/19 1:37am

Strive

strongoxman1 said:

Has it been confirmed or is it just rampant speculation that Extraloveable and Lust U Always were omitted from this release for these reasons? I've tried to find something definitive, but so far I haven't come across anything concrete or even strongly suggestive.

Some of Prince’s attempts at humour from this period no longer translate, particularly in a post #MeToo environment. Howe explains that despite the wish to create an exhaustive overview of Prince’s 1999-era output, unreleased songs “Extraloveable” and “Lust U Always” were left off the package.

“Even though those two tracks are resolutely of the era, both tracks contain somewhat lamentable rape references. Given the egregiously insensitive candour of the lyrics and our lack of wanting to take creative license by editing or manipulating the tracks, we decided not to include them. Even though we want to shed light on the entire creative period, we certainly don’t want to be inflammatory or insensitive. We didn’t think it was right to include them.”

https://www.ilikeyouroldstuff.com/news/interview-prince-archivist-michael-howe-on-prince-vault

Free the music, fire Michael Howe
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Reply #14 posted 12/02/19 4:50am

jazzz

I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves?
.
Many other expressions by artists - music, photography, paintings, literature, movies - depict (sexual) agression. Would that mean that in the post #metoo era, future publication of these works of art could only be done in an edited way, or even not at all...
.
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Reply #15 posted 12/02/19 5:22am

VaultCurator

avatar

christobole said:

Songs to be censored - can you think of any?

As the 1999 box and omission of Extraloveable / Lust U Alwys shows, musical mediocrity is of no concern when releasing Vault tracks, it's the lyrics that arouse the censors' snips. Are there any other candidates that are likely to remain unreleased because of lyrics that might be deemed offensive? Anything from the Parade, Sign eras? Please discuss wink

.

I honestly can't think of any. There are many other explicit songs but nothing else nearly as controversial. At least none that I have heard. Fingers crossed they'll be no other PC casualties.

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Reply #16 posted 12/02/19 5:47am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jazzz said:

I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves? . Many other expressions by artists - music, photography, paintings, literature, movies - depict (sexual) agression. Would that mean that in the post #metoo era, future publication of these works of art could only be done in an edited way, or even not at all... .


When it comes to lyrics suggesting rape or incest, I don't think it was brave or openness. I think he was being intentionally risque shocking to court critics. He knew what made them tick and he played them like a fiddle.



[Edited 12/2/19 5:52am]

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #17 posted 12/02/19 5:49am

sulls

avatar

djThunderfunk said:

jazzz said:

I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves? . Many other expressions by artists - music, photography, paintings, literature, movies - depict (sexual) agression. Would that mean that in the post #metoo era, future publication of these works of art could only be done in an edited way, or even not at all... .


When it comes to lyrics suggesting rape or incest, I don't think it was brave or openness. I think he was being intentionally risque to court critics. He knew what made them tick and he played them like a fiddle.

yeahthat

"I like to watch."
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Reply #18 posted 12/02/19 6:07am

jazzz

djThunderfunk said:



jazzz said:


I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves? . Many other expressions by artists - music, photography, paintings, literature, movies - depict (sexual) agression. Would that mean that in the post #metoo era, future publication of these works of art could only be done in an edited way, or even not at all... .


When it comes to lyrics suggesting rape or incest, I don't think it was brave or openness. I think he was being intentionally risque shocking to court critics. He knew what made them tick and he played them like a fiddle.



[Edited 12/2/19 5:52am]


.
Ok, there might have been a provocative element in it. Still, evoking a reaction is also a quality of art. Especially if it triggers a response in the social debate. The early 80s was still a time of big sexual taboos in the USA (and rest of the Western world). People like Prince may have been in the forefront of a second wave of the sexual liberation. Such a role sometimes asks for strong means. Ignoring and even censoring this now is a denial of history.
.
And furthermore... how bad are the lyrics of EL and LUA anyway? Are they worse than those in some other, released songs of Prince? By applying censorship, will we finally grant Tipper Gore a victory over Prince... come on people, this is 2019, not 1984!
.
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Reply #19 posted 12/02/19 6:28am

djThunderfunk

avatar

jazzz said:

djThunderfunk said:


When it comes to lyrics suggesting rape or incest, I don't think it was brave or openness. I think he was being intentionally risque shocking to court critics. He knew what made them tick and he played them like a fiddle.



[Edited 12/2/19 5:52am]

. Ok, there might have been a provocative element in it. Still, evoking a reaction is also a quality of art. Especially if it triggers a response in the social debate. The early 80s was still a time of big sexual taboos in the USA (and rest of the Western world). People like Prince may have been in the forefront of a second wave of the sexual liberation. Such a role sometimes asks for strong means. Ignoring and even censoring this now is a denial of history. . And furthermore... how bad are the lyrics of EL and LUA anyway? Are they worse than those in some other, released songs of Prince? By applying censorship, will we finally grant Tipper Gore a victory over Prince... come on people, this is 2019, not 1984! .

i'm not arguing any of this. Completely agree. Release it. Deal with it. wink


REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #20 posted 12/02/19 6:47am

BanishedBrian

It's a good thing that Dirty Mind doesn't really need a remaster, because if it did, I expect that they'd release it with Sister edited or omitted.

In the case of the 1999 set, their decision to remove Extraloveable cost them my dollars as a consumer. As great as the rest of it is, I won't spend money on it as long as Extraloveable remains unreleased by the Estate.

No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #21 posted 12/02/19 7:19am

mbdtyler

jazzz said:

I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves?
.


Wearing makeup and embracing his feminine side in an era rampant with homophobia and toxic masculinity was brave. Singing about raping women wasn't brave or insightful, it was insensitive and disturbing. Especially when victims of rape weren't often taken seriously when they tried to seek help or justice.
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Reply #22 posted 12/02/19 7:36am

VaultCurator

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BanishedBrian said:

It's a good thing that Dirty Mind doesn't really need a remaster, because if it did, I expect that they'd release it with Sister edited or omitted.

In the case of the 1999 set, their decision to remove Extraloveable cost them my dollars as a consumer. As great as the rest of it is, I won't spend money on it as long as Extraloveable remains unreleased by the Estate.

.

I don't think there is any risk of 'Sister' being omitted from future releases. Prince is singing from the point of view of a victim rather than a perpetrator. It's still a shocking track, but I don't think it would cause the same sort of controversy that WB were trying to avoid with Extraloveable.

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Reply #23 posted 12/02/19 7:53am

leadline

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None should be censored, what are we 6 years old? Last I checked I have the ability to not watch or listen to anything I don't like. This society we are living in where people can't handle words is just crazy, and no, I am not condoning rape nor belittling anyone who has gone through this traumatic experience.

The hypocricy is crazy, these two songs get axed because of the rape line, but the torture line gets to stay in Automatic? Does this mean torture is ok? One of many examples.

This music is a snapshot in time, a historical document, and should be represented as such. None of Prince's music should be changed, it should be released as is. Releasing edited versions of Prince music, or not releasing the music at all due to 'words deemed 'scary', is a slap in the face to everyone here, as it strips all of us of our decision to choose what our own personal thresholds are when it comes to explicit or suggestive themes in music. These people that feel they have the right to choose for us, it is arrogance at its best.



[Edited 12/2/19 8:30am]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #24 posted 12/02/19 8:58am

jazzz

mbdtyler said:

jazzz said:

I think it was extremely brave of Prince to write so open about his feelings and thoughts, whether they were sweet or dark, good or bad, happy or angry... Especially considering his introvert personality. He gave us an insight in his mind and his fantasies, he shared his inner world with us. A quality of all great art. Should we censor aspects of this, just because these thoughts scare us? What does this say about ourselves?
.


Wearing makeup and embracing his feminine side in an era rampant with homophobia and toxic masculinity was brave. Singing about raping women wasn't brave or insightful, it was insensitive and disturbing. Especially when victims of rape weren't often taken seriously when they tried to seek help or justice.

.
Art should not be hindered by morality or consideration for others. It’s a personal expression of a personal emotion. If you don’t feel comfortable with it, ignore it, or at least start thinking WHY it upsets you. “Entartete kunst” does not exist... once you start censoring, where do you put the limit? And... art is “artificial”, not reality, that’s why it should be free.
.
.
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Reply #25 posted 12/02/19 9:52am

Genesia

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BanishedBrian said:

It's a good thing that Dirty Mind doesn't really need a remaster, because if it did, I expect that they'd release it with Sister edited or omitted.

In the case of the 1999 set, their decision to remove Extraloveable cost them my dollars as a consumer. As great as the rest of it is, I won't spend money on it as long as Extraloveable remains unreleased by the Estate.


Hogwash.

Dirty Mind has been out there - officially - since 1980. They aren't going to start stripping tracks from albums that were released 40 years ago. rolleyes

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #26 posted 12/02/19 10:16am

Vannormal

avatar

jazzz said:

Vannormal said:

-

No.

Not one !

Nothing.

Nada.

Rien.

Niks

Niets.

Nul.

Zero.

Nichts.

Niente.

Geen.

-

Censorship is something SOOOOOO American.

-

[Edited 12/1/19 13:55pm]

. Yeah, #metoo & #grabthembythepu$$y!!! . .

-

Life and it's issues as ART is what Prince makes and sings about.

It's not what he WANTS to happen the way he puts it.

But Prince singing over so called 'consored issues' still is and remains ART.

That was his way of putting out creativity and freedom of charing his ideas with al of us.

'Lust U Always' for example is ART. If anyone sees or hear it different, it says in some way a lot more about them and how they stand in society and towards others - but that's my humble opinion.

-

ART needs to be seen as an outlet of many things on it's own.

Take the song BOB GEORGE. Great track ! Great fun.

Did Prince really wanted to kill a woman or anyone else ?

The song 'Sister', you really think he had sex with his sister ? Talking about Incest...

'Lady Cab Driver', is he raping her ? does she suffer ? Is it real ?

-

Personally (and again my humble opinion) I considder any form of religion much more dangerous than anything else in this world.

The violence organised and performed in the name of religion killed way more people, raped more women, abuse more children than anything else in this world up until now, and it still goes on today.

To use censored issues in ART is also a way of handling it and try to understand it.

Shoving it under the carpet, and not talk about it doesn't.

(And don't always prevent or protect children from real life issues.

Yes rape or violence can be explained on their level.

Just try to explain things in an acceptable way if possible, don't protect them too much from the difficulties that are part of all our lives. Don't always hide pain and unhappiness for them.

Dissapointments and unfortunately violence is a part of our lives. And I don't like that too.)

-

Creating art is one way of dealing with very difficult issues of our society and lives.

And I think personally Prince did a pretty fine job on it. He uses humor on so many levels to make it understandable. Of course, if you have a low sense of humor... smile

-

Don't censor things (too much and too often) for those who need to understand it or want deal with it, even through music, funk, literature or any other artform.

And respect those that want to stay away from it, but never judge one or the other.

Art is not a platform that is complete free for whatever and I know that, but I think you understand what my point is.

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #27 posted 12/02/19 12:25pm

FunkiestOne

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Also what about "Sarah" or "Bob George" or the movie "Purple Rain" they all have violence against woman...

What about it? What's wrong with that?

What about "Saving Private Ryan" or "Raging Bull". They all have violence against men.

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Reply #28 posted 12/02/19 2:09pm

erik319

avatar

Prince himself mentioned and edited the questionable lyrics from Xtraloveable when he revisited it.

I find the lyric uncomfortable and wouldn't be bothered if the word was
edited out. Same goes for Lust U Always and U.

You can edit Schoolyard to your heart's content too.
blah blah blah
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Reply #29 posted 12/02/19 2:21pm

jazzz

erik319 said:

Prince himself mentioned and edited the questionable lyrics from Xtraloveable when he revisited it.

I find the lyric uncomfortable and wouldn't be bothered if the word was
edited out. Same goes for Lust U Always and U.

You can edit Schoolyard to your heart's content too.

.
Ok, so install Audacity, select the part of the waveform that bothers you, and apply the reverse effect. Then save the edited wave file. But don’t promote the organized censoring of who knows how many songs in the Vault. Other people might want to hear the songs as they were originally put to tape, without any form of mutation... There is a lot of discussion on this site about added reverb or reversed channels. Editing out words seems more appropriate to some.
.
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