OldFriends4Sale said:

jtfolden said:

I wouldn't call TBA a weaker album in comparison to LoveSexy at all. Indeed, I think the darker tone and mystique may have given it a better boost than the poor showing LoveSexy received in the USA. Neither one was remotely geared toward radio but TBA was very edgy for the time, at least.

I actually prefer the BLACK album over Lovesexy.

I listen to it all the way through way more than Lovesexy

Same here. I never really warmed to Lovesexy and to me it feels very rushed. I very rarely listen to it. The Black Album on the other hand is solid and I listen to it a lot.

Nasalhair said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I actually prefer the BLACK album over Lovesexy.

I listen to it all the way through way more than Lovesexy

Same here. I never really warmed to Lovesexy and to me it feels very rushed. I very rarely listen to it. The Black Album on the other hand is solid and I listen to it a lot.

crazy anybody would prefer lovesexy over the black album. i was underwhelmed with lovesexy.

.

the black album was the natural follow up from sign of the times. that is, it was a magnificent album that was funky as hell.

.

lovesexy on the other hand was weak and had a few dull songs. it was actually the first time i skipped songs on a prince album. i tried to like them but they just weren't very good. unfortunately a sign of things to come - batman (ugh), grafitti bridge (sigh), diamonds and pearls (absolutley horrible).

.

luckily he got back on track with the love symbol album so my musical relationship with him remained strong.

Nasalhair said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I actually prefer the BLACK album over Lovesexy.

I listen to it all the way through way more than Lovesexy

Same here. I never really warmed to Lovesexy and to me it feels very rushed. I very rarely listen to it. The Black Album on the other hand is solid and I listen to it a lot.

I still think the New Power energy of Lovesexy and the band/associates at the time would have made whatever variation of Graffiti Bridge more acceptable, but 'this thing that he said was alive' didn't translate to me. And many in the band said they were really getting it.

.

I like putting together playlists of the era's album along with any proteges, B sides, outtakes And it just doesn't work for the Lovesexy era. Even though there are some cool songs that make me feel 'purple music' or that pure Prince essence.

blacksignparade said:

Nasalhair said:

Same here. I never really warmed to Lovesexy and to me it feels very rushed. I very rarely listen to it. The Black Album on the other hand is solid and I listen to it a lot.

crazy anybody would prefer lovesexy over the black album. i was underwhelmed with lovesexy.

.

the black album was the natural follow up from sign of the times. that is, it was a magnificent album that was funky as hell.

.

lovesexy on the other hand was weak and had a few dull songs. it was actually the first time i skipped songs on a prince album. i tried to like them but they just weren't very good. unfortunately a sign of things to come - batman (ugh), grafitti bridge (sigh), diamonds and pearls (absolutley horrible).

.

luckily he got back on track with the love symbol album so my musical relationship with him remained strong.

Sorry, but I prefer everything about Lovesexy to Black Album. Black Album feels like a handful of B-sides slapped together with no real relation to each other. Certainly not a cohesive album. I suppose it could be seen as an interesting patchwork quilt showing his transition from one band to another (its unique in that it has Susannah, Cat, and Boni on it), but not a great record.

theplejades said:

That the Black Album was a Prince-Album must have been one of the worst kept secrets ever.

In Germany we had a great weekly Funk and Soul radio show. The host was a big Prince fan and she always always played his songs. I don´t remember her name but she played almost the entire Black Album one week before it was about to be released. Then it got pulled.

I think she got in big trouble for playing it but many people (including me) recorded the songs on cassette from that show and did not have to buy the bootleg.

I loved that album and listened to it all the time.

[Edited 11/27/19 10:40am]

That was NDR2, wasn't it???

Because I taped that as well. I was 16 at the time... The whole album, if I remember correctly. Surely that was a source for many of the bootlegs...

Was it a lady? Or was ist Peter Urban? I do not remember.

Krid said:

theplejades said:

That the Black Album was a Prince-Album must have been one of the worst kept secrets ever.

In Germany we had a great weekly Funk and Soul radio show. The host was a big Prince fan and she always always played his songs. I don´t remember her name but she played almost the entire Black Album one week before it was about to be released. Then it got pulled.

I think she got in big trouble for playing it but many people (including me) recorded the songs on cassette from that show and did not have to buy the bootleg.

I loved that album and listened to it all the time.

[Edited 11/27/19 10:40am]

That was NDR2, wasn't it???

Because I taped that as well. I was 16 at the time... The whole album, if I remember correctly. Surely that was a source for many of the bootlegs...

Was it a lady? Or was ist Peter Urban? I do not remember.

can you confirm or narrow down the timing of the broadcast

[Edited 12/5/19 7:43am]

Krid said:

theplejades said:

That the Black Album was a Prince-Album must have been one of the worst kept secrets ever.

In Germany we had a great weekly Funk and Soul radio show. The host was a big Prince fan and she always always played his songs. I don´t remember her name but she played almost the entire Black Album one week before it was about to be released. Then it got pulled.

I think she got in big trouble for playing it but many people (including me) recorded the songs on cassette from that show and did not have to buy the bootleg.

I loved that album and listened to it all the time.

[Edited 11/27/19 10:40am]

That was NDR2, wasn't it???

Because I taped that as well. I was 16 at the time... The whole album, if I remember correctly. Surely that was a source for many of the bootlegs...

Was it a lady? Or was ist Peter Urban? I do not remember.

The User Pellwormer answered that already. Her name was Ruth Rockenschaub and the show was called Soultrain. Not sure if it was on NDR or WDR. I think at the time I was always listening to WDR. Maybe Pellwormer can answer that because he also recorded the whole show. I recorded only the songs.

In this link https://the-black-album.i...story.html they write that the show was aired on March 6 which i find a little surprising because i have a feeling that it was much earlier in December. But I could be wrong about that though.

Le Grind sent Prince to the dark side, y'all. A little hard to buy he ever thought When 2 R in Love is the devils music. It's not like he disavowed other music recorded during that same period. And what's the difference between Housequake, and the Camille tracks, and the Black Album? I always felt there's more to the story. Reading this is also the first time I really considered how patient WB were.

Susan Rogers:

The Black Album was recorded right around that time - just setting aside a couple of days of studio time in order to make music to dance to at Sheila's birthday party. We'd been working really hard on Sign o' the Times - and the songs on Sign o' the Times, the lyrics are clever, the topics are deeper, more introspective than your typical dance music. Those songs require a bit of time to write and produce and record. So Prince needed a break from all that. He just wanted to make some funky dance music, because he wanted music to dance to at Sheila's party.

So he took some time and recorded all that fun stuff and then set it aside and forgot about it. We pressed some vinyl - we would go to Grundman Mastering right on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood - we'd have Bernie Grundman master it for us, press us some acetates. We would take a stack of these acetates to the party and the DJ could play them and we could dance to them.

It ultimately became The Black Album - I believe this is how it happened - after the R&B music press wasn't as favourable in their reviews of the Sign ' o the Times album, and Prince wanted to prove, 'yeah, I'm funky, I still do funk music, I'm still a funk musician'.

http://www.bbc.com/news/e...s-36111200

Time upon a once
There was a boy named Camille
Now this boy named Camille
didn't know how 2 feel.
Sometimes he was lonely
sometimes he was sad
but most times
he just took 4 granted
all the nice things
that he had.

Some people said they loved him
but Camille said
"Contempt!
Winter, Spring,
Summer, or Fall,
love is no good
unless it's felt by all"

So, naive & terrifically in need
Camille started looking for answers
His paintbrush the questioner,
his canvas the arena,
Camille set out to silence his critics.
"No longer daring" - his enemies laughed.
"No longer glam, his funk is half-assed...
one leg is much shorter
than the other one is weak.
His strokes are tepid,
his colors are meek."

So Camille found a new color.
The color black:
strongest hue of them all.
He painted a picture
called Le Grind --
hittin' so tall.
And then Cindy C --
THE vogue fantasy.
Horns & vocals 2 die 4.
Lollipops -- in yours!

Stroke after stroke callin' all others a joke.
Superfunkycalifragisexi.

Camille rocked hard in a funky place. Stuck his long
funk in competition's face. Tuesday came. Blue Tuesday.
His canvas full, and lying on the table, Camille mustered
all the hate that he was able. Hate 4 the ones who ever
doubted his game. Hate 4 the ones who ever doubted his name.

"Tis nobody funkier -- let the Black Album fly." Spooky
Electric was talking, Camille started 2 cry. Tricked.
A fool he had been. In the lowest utmostest. He had allowed
the dark side of him 2 create something evil. 2 Nigs United
4 West Compton. Camille and his ego. Bob George. Why?
Spooky Electric must die. Die in the hearts of all who
want love. Die in the hearts of men who want change.
Die in the bodies of women who want babies that will grow up
with a New Power Soul. Love Life, Lovesexy -- the feeling
u get when u fall in love, not with a girl or boy but with the
heavens above. Lovesexy -- endorphin. Camille figured out
what 2 feel. Glam Slam Escape -- the Sexuality Real.
Tonight we make love with only words. Girls first. This
feeling's so good in every single way.
God is alive! Let Him touch u and He will quench
every thirst. Let him touch u and an aura of peace will adorn u.
God is alive!
Let Him touch u and your own Lovesexy will be born.
Let Him touch u, let Him touch u, and Heaven is yours.
Welcome 2 the New Power Generation.

OldFriends4Sale said:

The black album was overrated and over hyped. Take away the mystique of it all, it really is just outakes of SOTT, Madhouse and Camille. Let's not confuse this. Lovesexy was a blah album to me, back then I thought it was amazing, 30+ yeras later. I find it corny as all hell.

LoveGalore said:

What's troublesome about this concept is that half the album was recorded in 1987. So was it Sheila's birthday in 1986? If so, we are talking 4 songs with only 2 of them being new (bob George and le grind)

.

Yeah, Sheila's Birthday is the 12th December so only 3 tracks were newly recorded...
.
Bob George - 7 December 1986
2 Nigs United 4 West Compton - 9 December 1986
Le Grind - 10 December 1986
.
Superfunkycalifragisexy & Rockhard In A Funky Place were both recorded a few months prior, although he may have taken those with him to the party.
.
Cindy C. & Dead On It were both recorded in March 87. Since they were recorded so close together maybe they were intended for a different party??? Who knows.
.
When 2 R In Love is the odd one out as was recorded in October 87. The same month the black album was compiled.
.

Sheila's birthday seems to be the root of where the album started, but it's not the whole story.

VaultCurator said:

LoveGalore said:

What's troublesome about this concept is that half the album was recorded in 1987. So was it Sheila's birthday in 1986? If so, we are talking 4 songs with only 2 of them being new (bob George and le grind)

.

Yeah, Sheila's Birthday is the 12th December so only 3 tracks were newly recorded...
.
Bob George - 7 December 1986
2 Nigs United 4 West Compton - 9 December 1986
Le Grind - 10 December 1986
.
Superfunkycalifragisexy & Rockhard In A Funky Place were both recorded a few months prior, although he may have taken those with him to the party.
.
Cindy C. & Dead On It were both recorded in March 87. Since they were recorded so close together maybe they were intended for a different party??? Who knows.
.
When 2 R In Love is the odd one out as was recorded in October 87. The same month the black album was compiled.
.

Sheila's birthday seems to be the root of where the album started, but it's not the whole story.

What a bizarre trip that album is given its random and piecemeal nature. A couple Crystal Ball era outtakes, a few songs recorded for a birthday party, a couple random one-off tracks, and then probably the newest song he'd recorded the month it was compiled. WTF? No wonder he cancelled it - the album is a bit of a disaster, conceptually speaking.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Susan Rogers:

It ultimately became The Black Album - I believe this is how it happened - after the R&B music press wasn't as favourable in their reviews of the Sign ' o the Times album, and Prince wanted to prove, 'yeah, I'm funky, I still do funk music, I'm still a funk musician'.

http://www.bbc.com/news/e...s-36111200

Just reading that... . But then again I could never understand the times they lived in...no pun. Always interesting to try and understand.

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Susan Rogers:

The Black Album was recorded right around that time - just setting aside a couple of days of studio time in order to make music to dance to at Sheila's birthday party. We'd been working really hard on Sign o' the Times - and the songs on Sign o' the Times, the lyrics are clever, the topics are deeper, more introspective than your typical dance music. Those songs require a bit of time to write and produce and record. So Prince needed a break from all that. He just wanted to make some funky dance music, because he wanted music to dance to at Sheila's party.

So he took some time and recorded all that fun stuff and then set it aside and forgot about it. We pressed some vinyl - we would go to Grundman Mastering right on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood - we'd have Bernie Grundman master it for us, press us some acetates. We would take a stack of these acetates to the party and the DJ could play them and we could dance to them.

It ultimately became The Black Album - I believe this is how it happened - after the R&B music press wasn't as favourable in their reviews of the Sign ' o the Times album, and Prince wanted to prove, 'yeah, I'm funky, I still do funk music, I'm still a funk musician'.

http://www.bbc.com/news/e...s-36111200

What's troublesome about this concept is that half the album was recorded in 1987. So was it Sheila's birthday in 1986? If so, we are talking 4 songs with only 2 of them being new (bob George and le grind)

I suspect it was her 1986 December 11th birthday party

.

It seems it was just music, not an 'album' of music to play at her birthday party.
I think Susan is just saying some of the music that became the Black album was recorded around the same time

Is it possible that Supefunkycalifragisexy could have been 4 possible use at the party too?

Maybe he would have previewed some music from Sheila's 3rd album too...

.

0. Walkin' In Glory December 7th 1986 at Sunset Sound

1. Le Grind 10 December 1986 at Sunset Sound 4 the VERTIGO party

2. Cindy C March 1987 at Prince's Galpin Blvd Home Studio

3. Dead On It March 1987 at Prince's Galpin Blvd Home Studio

4. When 2 R In Love October 1987 at Paisley Park Studios

5. Bob George 7 December 1986 at Sunset Sound 4 the VERTIGO party

6. Superfunkycalifragisexy September 1986 at Prince's Galpin Blvd Home Studio

7. 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton 9 December 1986 at Sunset Sound 4 the VERTIGO party

8. Rock Hard In a Funky Place 28 October 1986 at Sunset Sound 11.5.1986 CAmille project config.

Hi OF4S,

I have another question and I bet you'll have the answer. I remember that Prince came up with the name 'Bob George' by combining the first and last names of two other people. I think one was a critic who gave him a bad review. They may have both been critics.

What interests me about 'Bob George' is that it was recorded on 07th December 1986. This was one week after the Crystal Ball album was configured (30th November 1986) and there are no other known recordings between these dates. Presumably this was the week Prince was attempting to get 'Crystal Ball' approved for release, and him getting knocked back by WB. It's very possible that 'Bob George' was the first track Prince recorded after Crystal Ball's rejection. It would explain why he was so pissed on that track, and why he needed a break away from the Sign project as a whole (as Susan Roger's explained).

VaultCurator said:

Hi OF4S,

I have another question and I bet you'll have the answer. I remember that Prince came up with the name 'Bob George' by combining the first and last names of two other people. I think one was a critic who gave him a bad review. They may have both been critics.

What interests me about 'Bob George' is that it was recorded on 07th December 1986. This was one week after the Crystal Ball album was configured (30th November 1986) and there are no other known recordings between these dates. Presumably this was the week Prince was attempting to get 'Crystal Ball' approved for release, and him getting knocked back by WB. It's very possible that 'Bob George' was the first track Prince recorded after Crystal Ball's rejection. It would explain why he was so pissed on that track, and why he needed a break away from the Sign project as a whole (as Susan Roger's explained).

Hmm...Jesse on Questlove's podcast said that Prince called him and said "I wrote a song about you. It's called Bob George"

VaultCurator said:

Hi OF4S,

I have another question and I bet you'll have the answer. I remember that Prince came up with the name 'Bob George' by combining the first and last names of two other people. I think one was a critic who gave him a bad review. They may have both been critics.

What interests me about 'Bob George' is that it was recorded on 07th December 1986. This was one week after the Crystal Ball album was configured (30th November 1986) and there are no other known recordings between these dates. Presumably this was the week Prince was attempting to get 'Crystal Ball' approved for release, and him getting knocked back by WB. It's very possible that 'Bob George' was the first track Prince recorded after Crystal Ball's rejection. It would explain why he was so pissed on that track, and why he needed a break away from the Sign project as a whole (as Susan Roger's explained).

a direct answer to music critic Nelson George / Bob Cavallo

VaultCurator said:

Hi OF4S,

I have another question and I bet you'll have the answer. I remember that Prince came up with the name 'Bob George' by combining the first and last names of two other people. I think one was a critic who gave him a bad review. They may have both been critics.

What interests me about 'Bob George' is that it was recorded on 07th December 1986. This was one week after the Crystal Ball album was configured (30th November 1986) and there are no other known recordings between these dates. Presumably this was the week Prince was attempting to get 'Crystal Ball' approved for release, and him getting knocked back by WB. It's very possible that 'Bob George' was the first track Prince recorded after Crystal Ball's rejection. It would explain why he was so pissed on that track, and why he needed a break away from the Sign project as a whole (as Susan Roger's explained).

That is very interesting. I didn't look at the dates of the occurences so closely.
Could easily have added to the energy of that piece

lavendardrummachine said:

I always felt there's more to the story. Reading this is also the first time I really considered how patient WB were.

Probably a lot left out there to read then...

LoveGalore said:

VaultCurator said:

.

Yeah, Sheila's Birthday is the 12th December so only 3 tracks were newly recorded...
.
Bob George - 7 December 1986
2 Nigs United 4 West Compton - 9 December 1986
Le Grind - 10 December 1986
.
Superfunkycalifragisexy & Rockhard In A Funky Place were both recorded a few months prior, although he may have taken those with him to the party.
.
Cindy C. & Dead On It were both recorded in March 87. Since they were recorded so close together maybe they were intended for a different party??? Who knows.
.
When 2 R In Love is the odd one out as was recorded in October 87. The same month the black album was compiled.
.

Sheila's birthday seems to be the root of where the album started, but it's not the whole story.

What a bizarre trip that album is given its random and piecemeal nature. A couple Crystal Ball era outtakes, a few songs recorded for a birthday party, a couple random one-off tracks, and then probably the newest song he'd recorded the month it was compiled. WTF? No wonder he cancelled it - the album is a bit of a disaster, conceptually speaking.

no more random than Graffiti Bridge's best of the Vault.

WhisperingDandelions said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

VaultCurator said:

Hi OF4S,

I have another question and I bet you'll have the answer. I remember that Prince came up with the name 'Bob George' by combining the first and last names of two other people. I think one was a critic who gave him a bad review. They may have both been critics.

What interests me about 'Bob George' is that it was recorded on 07th December 1986. This was one week after the Crystal Ball album was configured (30th November 1986) and there are no other known recordings between these dates. Presumably this was the week Prince was attempting to get 'Crystal Ball' approved for release, and him getting knocked back by WB. It's very possible that 'Bob George' was the first track Prince recorded after Crystal Ball's rejection. It would explain why he was so pissed on that track, and why he needed a break away from the Sign project as a whole (as Susan Roger's explained).

a direct answer to music critic Nelson George / Bob Cavallo

Okay thanks for clearing that up. Ever since Jesse said it was about him i thought...this doesnt sound right at all but oh wells

AZStreet said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

a direct answer to music critic Nelson George / Bob Cavallo

Okay thanks for clearing that up. Ever since Jesse said it was about him i thought...this doesnt sound right at all but oh wells

LOL

But you know how Prince is. He has always used double messages in songs, dual inspirations.

Did he explain in what way, it was supposed to be about him?

OldFriends4Sale said:

AZStreet said:

Okay thanks for clearing that up. Ever since Jesse said it was about him i thought...this doesnt sound right at all but oh wells

LOL

But you know how Prince is. He has always used double messages in songs, dual inspirations.

Did he explain in what way, it was supposed to be about him?

(Questlove Supreme on Pandora transcription)

Jesse: Like Prince would call me up...he had a weird sense of humor. He called me up long after I was gone...i think it was when my first album was about to drop?..cant remember but he said "I mentioned you in a song today" and I go "what are you talking about?"...."Raspberry Beret" and click, he hangs up. And so I listened to the song, and I had moved the opposite of everybody, so I'm in this area called Blaine, there was nothing out there but cows and shit and me...

Boss Bill: Old Man Johnson's farm

Jesse: Exactly. And then the other one was "I wrote a song about you". And at the time I was living in Paris and we criss crossed a lot. '89 maybe that was? Sent me this tape..like Bob George...like mothafucka that aint...*everyone laughs*

Questlove: Wait...wait

Jesse: you know there is a part of the song "the n****rs got a gun"dadadada all that shit...that's his sense of humor. So I had to go "yea that was funny".

Questlove: Wait. Can you explain the reference of Bob George? Like how is that cop you?

Jesse: The dude when he goes "Cant we just dance"...or whatever *laugh*. I dont...I dont know, But he..because his nick name for me for a long period of time was "Here comes Jesse 'Im OK' Johnson"...because you know *laugh* that was the time. We was just some street dudes and so whenever we would run into stuff and I would get called *censored*(sounded like 'fag') all the time. We would be at an in-store signing and some girl go "you *censored* and I be like "Bitch what the fuck you ugly"

*Everyone laughs. And he goes on to a story on Vanity and how she was like a sister to him and she used to cockblock him when they would go out as other women would be interested in him.

So ya....he didnt answer the question

[Edited 12/6/19 15:14pm]

since it was to be permanantly not-to-be reissued as per the deal with WB...how does that affect a future remaster?????

[Edited 12/7/19 11:01am]

jfenster said:

since it was to be permanantly not-to-be reissued as per the deal with WB...how does that affect a future remaster?????

[Edited 12/7/19 11:01am]

.

Since its story is intertwined with Lovesexy, they can put the remastered tracks in a Lovesexy remaster deluxe. That way they won't reissue the black album and have a richer Lovesexy deluxe.