jaawwnn said:

Genesia said:

JoeyCococo said:

Can you elaborate a bit on what the anti-semitism parts are?

In Family Name, he seems to be casting the slave trade (with its obliteration of African culture in the form of renaming slaves) at the feet of people with stereotypically Jewish names. Of course, most of those stereotypically Jewish names aren't original Family Names, either.

Perhaps his point was that for some people, changing their names was a choice rather than coercion (of something even more malevolent). But Jews had their names changed forcibly or as a result of persecution, as well.

At best, it was an odd artistic choice. At worst … well, I already said what I thought the worst was.

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There's also the unfortunate "Holocaust aside / many lived and died / but when all the truth is told / would you rather be dead or sold?" bit.

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I think he's comparing the trauma of slavery to the Holocaust? Unsure, it's clumsy. But both these examples, if you unpack them, brush against common anti-semitic tropes. Jews were often portrayed as caring about money first, and only, and often at the expense of the lives of other people. The holocaust is often doubted, or put aside.

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It's sloppy.

I've always loved the album. While I do not agree with a lot of the religious content, I respect the fact that Prince was on his own spiritual path, was passionate and inspired over it, and wished to express that through his art. The album is thought-provoking and musically sublime.

Mintchip said:

Genesia said:

In Family Name, he seems to be casting the slave trade (with its obliteration of African culture in the form of renaming slaves) at the feet of people with stereotypically Jewish names. Of course, most of those stereotypically Jewish names aren't original Family Names, either.

Perhaps his point was that for some people, changing their names was a choice rather than coercion (of something even more malevolent). But Jews had their names changed forcibly or as a result of persecution, as well.

At best, it was an odd artistic choice. At worst … well, I already said what I thought the worst was.

.

There's also the unfortunate "Holocaust aside / many lived and died / but when all the truth is told / would you rather be dead or sold?" bit.

.

I think he's comparing the trauma of slavery to the Holocaust? Unsure, it's clumsy. But both these examples, if you unpack them, brush against common anti-semitic tropes. Jews were often portrayed as caring about money first, and only, and often at the expense of the lives of other people. The holocaust is often doubted, or put aside.

.

It's sloppy.

Exactly. But why even compare the two? And, more to the point, why make the assertion that the Holocaust wasn't as bad because the Jews were killed rather than sold? I guess he didn't read that Old Testament chapter where Pharaoh made his Hebrew slaves build the pyramids.

I can't listen to Family Name, even his voice has an unpleasantly spiteful tone to it -- to match the lyrics.

One reason I still enjoy Rainbow Children (which owes as much to Stevie Wonder as it does George Clinton) is that all the other religtious/theocracy stuff is SO far out to me that I consider it to be basically sci-fi.

Rainbow Children is like the Imperial version of Mothership Connection. Nos sure if that makes it better, or worse.

Hamad said:

jaawwnn said:

It's a great album, I appreciate that he really meant the lyrics, at their best they're thoughtprovoking even if they're preachy. Sure he was always preachy, he literally has a song called God. On the Rainbow Children the lyrics are kind of specific where he was quite vague in the past, I think some people might have been uncomfortable being confronted with them, and I can't blame them either.

There's been some criticism of the music being phony jazz, which is probably kind of true, but I still enjoy it since he mixes it with enough other stuff to keep it inspired. I always like to hear him stretching himself musically and he really does seem to be doing that on this album. The 'Darth Vader' voice criticism i've never gotten, it's just a variation on the PFunk thing isn't it? Go listen to Maggot Brain.

[Edited 11/26/19 2:17am]

I too got the funkadelic reference, but it wasn’t “Maggot Brain”, it was “Good Thoughts, Bad Thoughts”. George used that same distorted voice

Ah I was just choosing at random a PFunk song with a deep voice, there's a fair few!

dustoff said:

I can't listen to Family Name, even his voice has an unpleasantly spiteful tone to it -- to match the lyrics.

One reason I still enjoy Rainbow Children (which owes as much to Stevie Wonder as it does George Clinton) is that all the other religtious/theocracy stuff is SO far out to me that I consider it to be basically sci-fi.

Rainbow Children is like the Imperial version of Mothership Connection. Nos sure if that makes it better, or worse.

[Edited 11/27/19 2:09am]

From a music perspective, I've always enjoyed this album. It's sophisticated and I love the jazzy vibe, however, I have never loved the lyrics of several songs. Some of the JW dogma was unwelcome, but otherwise, I can enjoy the album if I don't let the lyrics get to me too much.

I was a JW when the album came out so the lyrics obviously didn't offend me (other than them being not always "accurate knowledge of 'the truth'") but the Bob George narration got old very quickly. I just don't enjoy the album. It has it's moments but trying to listen to the whole album like I prefer to listen to music is just excruciating. It's just self-indulgence a step too far.

[Edited 11/28/19 7:34am]

LoveGalore said:

I look at it as a fairytale. Like he's singing about Lord of the Rings or some shit

Without a doubt, the production on this outstrips any other in his discography. Lotusflower comes closest. Intrestingly, they are his more 'concept' albums. He was obviously really into what he is doing.

Prince doing jazz?

Outside of Madhouse...I don't really dig it! Shit's too mellow. I like my Prince music intense, musically.

Never got into 'Rainbow Children'.

POOK said:

POOK LOVE RAINBOW KID MUSIC POOK OK WITH THEOLOGY LYRIC POOK NOT CRAZY ABOUT SPOOKY VOICE OH ALSO POOK NOT KNOW ABOUT PEACH BLACK PODCAST SO THANK OP BANANA SPLIT FOR ALL [Edited 12/4/19 8:54am]

Hamad said:

I was listening to a peach & black podcast review last week and one of the speakers said that the lyrics created a disconnect between him & the music (I’m paraphrasing). I’m not oblivious about the big heated discussions that took place here when it was released, however my question is, have you guys revisited the album again recently? And if so does the stance still remain the same(or worse ) or have your views changed? I ask this, because I find myself going back to certain albums I didn’t care for in the past (Chaos & Disorder/New Power Soul) but find myself completely enthralled by them now.

I think it represented his hardcore JW phase. He passed that by in the end and toned it down in the end. I treat it like a fantasy, concept album these days. It remains totally bonkers to this day.

emesem said:

Views have not changed. Its still most negative and hateful thing that Prince ever put out. Sorry I havent gotten over the theocratic fascism, the misogyny, the anti-semitism or the dog whistle racism.

Shame as the last half of it has some of Princes best music but its just lipstick on a cold, dark heart.

[Edited 11/26/19 9:03am]

Glad you said it, Too many people giving him a pass for the music. "I ignore lyrics, nut the music? wooo" etc. I'm somewhat guilty too passing it off as a fantasy album. We know there's some dodgy stuff lyrically. He meant it that way too. The controversial new album sticker was exhibit A.

Relistening to it now on Youtube. It's funky...just not the upbeat funk I like! I do like Mellow, though.

If I can buy Mellow on Amazon, then, I'll be satisfied. A lot of it is like this funk that's played "mellow" for lack of a better word. I like to be thrilled. If it ain't thrilling, I can't get into it...that's people, activities, work, everything for me...especially this album!

It sounds like a band album, where everybody ain't as funky as Prince. Maybe, they ain't as funky as the Prince of old. Maybe that's the thing. P went in a different direction that doesn't fit my personality. If I want Prince doing jazz, it would have to sound like 'Clocking the Jizz'. I ain't got time for the mellow shit!

I definitiley like the Last Decemnber better than any of the other songs on the album. Still like the live versions of all the songs so much better than the studio versions. I was surprised he didn't include Last December on the One Night Alone Live album that included so much of TRC. I noticed it also wasn't on the only boot I have of the tour, the Louisville show. Did he ever perform it live?

I listened to that album once.... once only, worse than NPS and Rave combined... musically he was in a "funk" and his music was unlistenable to me.

I was hyped for it at the time. It was a new release, he’d gone back to using the name ‘Prince’, it was his first proper album in two years. It was exciting at the time. I gave it a fair share of plays for a few months. If I remember rightly the consensus was that there was a really strong EP buried in a wishy washy album. She Loves Me 4 Me, Family Name, The Everlasting Now & Last December, these tracks went down well. On top of that I gave 1+1+1 is 3 a fair few spins.

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I have to admit, I’ve barely played it since. By the end of the One Nite Alone tour I was burnt out with it and I’ve never really looked back.

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As far as the lyrical content goes, the religious stuff never bothered me. When I hear people complain about the preaching my reaction is ‘you do remember LoveSexy right?’. Prince including his religious views in his music wasn't anything new. As far as I was concerned it was just Prince doing his thing. I took no issue with it.