independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Updating our knowledge of the vault from the new handwritten track listings
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 2 of 3 <123>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #30 posted 11/05/19 1:32pm

TwiliteKid

avatar

jfenster said:

does the estate realize these configurationss would be highly saught after???

You really think an alternate For You would be big? Not so sure.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #31 posted 11/05/19 1:33pm

jfenster

TwiliteKid said:

jfenster said:

does the estate realize these configurationss would be highly saught after???

You really think an alternate For You would be big? Not so sure.

double it with the remaster....

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #32 posted 11/05/19 2:46pm

purplepolitici
an

avatar

When I was a kid I thought I was a musical genius with album n song titles, covers, even movie ideas 😂.
For all time I am with you, you are with me.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #33 posted 11/05/19 4:09pm

bsprout

RodeoSchro said:

I hope I never hear Prince's version of "Send in the Clowns". Honestly, I hope I never hear that song by anyone, ever. One of my most disliked songs ever.


Me too 🙈
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #34 posted 11/05/19 4:33pm

rdhull

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

I hope I never hear Prince's version of "Send in the Clowns". Honestly, I hope I never hear that song by anyone, ever. One of my most disliked songs ever.

especially by subway Wall Street bros?

"Climb in my fur."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #35 posted 11/05/19 11:55pm

love2thenines2
003

My st Graal 4ever would be the 1st more produced and longer version of When Doves Cry. !
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #36 posted 11/06/19 7:30am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

SoulAlive said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


imagine, if a lot diehard hardcore fans have hate for this track, just imagine the hate from mainstream audiences and music critics.`

For the song not to end up on an album, you know there was a lot of feedback from within the Prince camp with vocal misgivings about adding it to an album.

lol do you really believe that Prince listened to any "feedback from within the Prince camp" when choosing songs for his albums?

Yes, I think he did. He said it himself in a 1985 interview.

and songs like Manic Monday, Miss Understood, Jerk Out etc

he didn't include based on the groups/bands thoughts

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #37 posted 11/06/19 7:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator




.

Initial tracking took place on 14 January, 1982 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (three days after Bold Generation and Gigolos Get Lonely Too, the same day as The Walk, and the day before Colleen), during sessions for The Time's second album What Time Is It?.

It was intended to be sung by Morris Day, but Prince reclaimed the song to use on 1999 instead. It is likely that Morris Day recorded vocals for the song during these sessions, but this is unconfirmed.

-PrinceVault

.
The Time: What Time Is It?, home studio, 11 January 1982
Gigolos Get Lonely Too (4:40)*
Bold Generation The Time: What Time Is It?, Sunset Sound, 14-20 January 1982
International Lover (6:35)* (14/1)
.
3. What Time Is It?

In late December 1981, during a break at his "Controversy"-Tour, [Prince] starts the recording sessions for THE TIME's second album. He recorded Gigolos get lonely too and Jerk out at his home studio again. The last mentioned song didn't make it on this album, but a reworked version surfaced on THE TIME's 1990 reunion-album [Pandemonium]. From 14th to 20th January 1982 the sessions continued at Hollywood Sunset Sound, where he recorded The walk, Wild and loose and a previously unreleased track called Colleen. Another previously unreleased leftover from this sessions was a song called Bold generation, recorded 11th January 1982 either at [Prince]'s home studio or Hollywood Sunset Sound.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #38 posted 11/09/19 6:32pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

jfenster said:

r there studio ..not rehearsal versions...of IWD4U, BIAS, and Purple rain?



We know BIAS studio exists, at least in demo form. The fact that both BIAS and IWD4U appear on an album/soundtrack track list 18 months before the live recordings, I'd be shocked if they didn't exist as studio versions much earlier.

Purple Rain song seems a much later concept, so it's much harder to judge.
.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #39 posted 11/11/19 2:11pm

jaawwnn

avatar

We have all those rehearsals of Bodyheat, he was clearly a big fan of it, I wonder if Bodyfreeze was some kind of answer song?

Also that rehearsal we have of I would Die 4 U is from, what, February 1982? Controversy era. There must be, or have been, a demo of some kind from around then as well.
[Edited 11/11/19 14:14pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #40 posted 11/11/19 2:39pm

jaawwnn

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:



SquirrelMeat said:



For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.




.


Kinda revealing how GB is in many aspects a "retrospective" project. A scenario dating back to September 1987, songs dating back to 1981,... I'm wondering if Prince was in a creative lull around that time, because http://www.princevault.co...orded_1990 isn't exactly a treasure trove.


The Prince-penned tracks on Pandemonium support this as well. There's a lot of factors at play but it can't be a coincidence that something intrinsic in his sound changed around this period as well. The nude tour is arguably his first backwards looking tour as well.
[Edited 11/11/19 14:41pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #41 posted 11/14/19 5:32pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

jaawwnn said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Kinda revealing how GB is in many aspects a "retrospective" project. A scenario dating back to September 1987, songs dating back to 1981,... I'm wondering if Prince was in a creative lull around that time, because http://www.princevault.co...orded_1990 isn't exactly a treasure trove.

The Prince-penned tracks on Pandemonium support this as well. There's a lot of factors at play but it can't be a coincidence that something intrinsic in his sound changed around this period as well. The nude tour is arguably his first backwards looking tour as well. [Edited 11/11/19 14:41pm]



Good point. Maybe Prince was having a classic case of writers block in 1990, and it took the new band and the 'rap' influence to point him in a significant new direction change with Diamonds and Pearls.

.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #42 posted 11/15/19 11:44am

Se7en

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

jaawwnn said:

BartVanHemelen said: The Prince-penned tracks on Pandemonium support this as well. There's a lot of factors at play but it can't be a coincidence that something intrinsic in his sound changed around this period as well. The nude tour is arguably his first backwards looking tour as well. [Edited 11/11/19 14:41pm]



Good point. Maybe Prince was having a classic case of writers block in 1990, and it took the new band and the 'rap' influence to point him in a significant new direction change with Diamonds and Pearls.



I don't think he was in a creative lull, but probably feeling a sense of urgency after Batman to do SOMETHING related to film. I think the GB film kept him preoccupied. As good, bad or indfifferent as that was (well, just bad).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #43 posted 11/23/19 2:55am

VaultCurator

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:


This a a real eyeopener.

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.

.

It turns out that some additional history of 'Moonbeam Levels' was made public back in 2016 but Prince Vault appears to have missed it. The following excerpt was taken from an interview with Susan Rogers by Red Bull Music Academy.
.
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/w...ON0nQCQF08
Time stamp: 1:30:12
.
When asked about whether his unreleased music should be released, given that he didn't make it available to the public himself, part of her reply was...
.
"There's a song called 'Moonbeam Levels' that I heard in '83 when I came to work for him. It was one of my favourites and he wasn't ready to release it. We put it on 'Purple Rain' on the album sequence at one point and we pulled it off. We put it on 'Around The World In A Day' and we pulled it off. I was so disappointed every time. He just didn't want people to know that about him, but now I think maybe he would."
.

So now we know that 'Moonbeam Levels' was considered for at least 3 albums. 'Purple Rain', 'Around The World In A Day', and 'Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic'

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #44 posted 11/23/19 5:03am

LoveGalore

VaultCurator said:



SquirrelMeat said:



This a a real eyeopener.


We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.



.


It turns out that some additional history of 'Moonbeam Levels' was made public back in 2016 but Prince Vault appears to have missed it. The following excerpt was taken from an interview with Susan Rogers by Red Bull Music Academy.
.
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/w...ON0nQCQF08
Time stamp: 1:30:12
.
When asked about whether his unreleased music should be released, given that he didn't make it available to the public himself, part of her reply was...
.
"There's a song called 'Moonbeam Levels' that I heard in '83 when I came to work for him. It was one of my favourites and he wasn't ready to release it. We put it on 'Purple Rain' on the album sequence at one point and we pulled it off. We put it on 'Around The World In A Day' and we pulled it off. I was so disappointed every time. He just didn't want people to know that about him, but now I think maybe he would."
.


So now we know that 'Moonbeam Levels' was considered for at least 3 albums. 'Purple Rain', 'Around The World In A Day', and 'Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic'



And 1999
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #45 posted 11/23/19 5:12am

VaultCurator

avatar

LoveGalore said:

And 1999

.

Not as far as I'm aware. Unless you're referring to the Super Deluxe. wink

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #46 posted 11/23/19 5:15am

LoveGalore

VaultCurator said:



LoveGalore said:


And 1999

.


Not as far as I'm aware. Unless you're referring to the Super Deluxe. wink


It has been pretty common knowledge that Moonbeam Levels was intended for 1999 for decades though.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #47 posted 11/23/19 6:02am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

VaultCurator said:

SquirrelMeat said:


This a a real eyeopener.

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.

.

It turns out that some additional history of 'Moonbeam Levels' was made public back in 2016 but Prince Vault appears to have missed it. The following excerpt was taken from an interview with Susan Rogers by Red Bull Music Academy.
.
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/w...ON0nQCQF08
Time stamp: 1:30:12
.
When asked about whether his unreleased music should be released, given that he didn't make it available to the public himself, part of her reply was...
.
"There's a song called 'Moonbeam Levels' that I heard in '83 when I came to work for him. It was one of my favourites and he wasn't ready to release it. We put it on 'Purple Rain' on the album sequence at one point and we pulled it off. We put it on 'Around The World In A Day' and we pulled it off. I was so disappointed every time. He just didn't want people to know that about him, but now I think maybe he would."
.

So now we know that 'Moonbeam Levels' was considered for at least 3 albums. 'Purple Rain', 'Around The World In A Day', and 'Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic'

I could see it connected with Purple Rain, I could hear it connected with ATWIAD with some touches of finger cymbals and ouds etc I'm trying to hear the music that would be connected to 1989 Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic. It seems he would have to do a different take of the song to blend.
I never thought early 1986 Joy In Repetition fit 1990s Graffiti Bridge. And 1988 Pink Cashmere did not fit the time period it was released.
.
Thanks for this information, never knew it was considerd for PR & ATWIAD

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #48 posted 11/23/19 6:29am

VaultCurator

avatar

LoveGalore said:

VaultCurator said:

.

Not as far as I'm aware. Unless you're referring to the Super Deluxe. wink

It has been pretty common knowledge that Moonbeam Levels was intended for 1999 for decades though.

.

Sorry LoveGalore. Quite right. I remember reading that it wasn't known to have been placed in a sequence of 1999, although I just checked PrinceVault and it was indeed originally intended for it. My bad.
.
So yes, that's four albums it almost appeared on.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #49 posted 11/24/19 5:24pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

LoveGalore said:

VaultCurator said:

.

Not as far as I'm aware. Unless you're referring to the Super Deluxe. wink

It has been pretty common knowledge that Moonbeam Levels was intended for 1999 for decades though.

I don't think it was. Despite being recorded at the back end of the 1999 sessions, Prince's only had written notes showing it as earmarked for 'Dreams'.

The Prince vault details are wrong, as they never had access to what has appeared in the new book.

.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #50 posted 11/24/19 11:48pm

LoveGalore

SquirrelMeat said:

LoveGalore said:

VaultCurator said: It has been pretty common knowledge that Moonbeam Levels was intended for 1999 for decades though.

I don't think it was. Despite being recorded at the back end of the 1999 sessions, Prince's only had written notes showing it as earmarked for 'Dreams'.

The Prince vault details are wrong, as they never had access to what has appeared in the new book.

That note doesn't imply it wasn't considered for 1999. I think its consideration for 1999 is clear, especially given when it was recorded. Especially considering he performed it live during that tour. And especially given it was placed on so many albums subsequent to its recording.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #51 posted 11/25/19 1:41am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

Se7en said:

SquirrelMeat said:



Good point. Maybe Prince was having a classic case of writers block in 1990, and it took the new band and the 'rap' influence to point him in a significant new direction change with Diamonds and Pearls.



I don't think he was in a creative lull, but probably feeling a sense of urgency after Batman to do SOMETHING related to film. I think the GB film kept him preoccupied. As good, bad or indfifferent as that was (well, just bad).

.

Except that the script for GB had been kicking around since 1987.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #52 posted 11/25/19 5:49am

VaultCurator

avatar

LoveGalore said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I don't think it was. Despite being recorded at the back end of the 1999 sessions, Prince's only had written notes showing it as earmarked for 'Dreams'.

The Prince vault details are wrong, as they never had access to what has appeared in the new book.

That note doesn't imply it wasn't considered for 1999. I think its consideration for 1999 is clear, especially given when it was recorded. Especially considering he performed it live during that tour. And especially given it was placed on so many albums subsequent to its recording.

.

Hey guys! Check this out. I just checked Moonbeam's page on Prince vault again and there has been a huge update! Check out what's written there now...

.
http://princevault.com/index.php?title=Moonbeam_Levels
.

"Even though it was recorded during the sessions for 1999, and considered for that album, it was never placed on a configuration of it. It was worked on further in June 1983 and considered for, but also not placed on any configurations of Purple Rain,and subsequently also for Around The World In A Day, Parade and the CrystalBall set that evolved into Sign O' The Times. Finally it was also considered for inclusion on the aborted Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic album (different from the 1999 album Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic), as the ninth and final track on the mid-January 1989, configuration of the album before it was abandoned when Prince began work on the Batman soundtrack album. "

.

One of the references on the page was Duane Tudahl's book 'Prince and the Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions'. I've just found the relevant quote in the expanded edition (pages 94-95). Again, it's a quote from Susan Rogers...
.
"He considered putting it on just about every album that I know of, that I've worked with him on, including Purple Rain, Around The World In A Day, Sign O' The Times and Parade."
.
[Edit: Post updated with citation]

[Edited 11/25/19 6:40am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #53 posted 11/25/19 8:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

BartVanHemelen said:

Se7en said:



I don't think he was in a creative lull, but probably feeling a sense of urgency after Batman to do SOMETHING related to film. I think the GB film kept him preoccupied. As good, bad or indfifferent as that was (well, just bad).

.

Except that the script for GB had been kicking around since 1987.

sort of, not the one we saw on film in 1990

but the concept sure did change multiple times until then.
Even the addition of the Time came in 89, Jimmy Jam said the had a Time movie they were working on

seems like GB is encorporated the When The Dawn Of The Morning Comes direction 1986

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #54 posted 11/25/19 8:55am

LoveGalore

VaultCurator said:



LoveGalore said:




SquirrelMeat said:




I don't think it was. Despite being recorded at the back end of the 1999 sessions, Prince's only had written notes showing it as earmarked for 'Dreams'.

The Prince vault details are wrong, as they never had access to what has appeared in the new book.



That note doesn't imply it wasn't considered for 1999. I think its consideration for 1999 is clear, especially given when it was recorded. Especially considering he performed it live during that tour. And especially given it was placed on so many albums subsequent to its recording.



.


Hey guys! Check this out. I just checked Moonbeam's page on Prince vault again and there has been a huge update! Check out what's written there now...


.
http://princevault.com/index.php?title=Moonbeam_Levels
.


"Even though it was recorded during the sessions for 1999, and considered for that album, it was never placed on a configuration of it. It was worked on further in June 1983 and considered for, but also not placed on any configurations of Purple Rain,and subsequently also for Around The World In A Day, Parade and the CrystalBall set that evolved into Sign O' The Times. Finally it was also considered for inclusion on the aborted Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic album (different from the 1999 album Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic), as the ninth and final track on the mid-January 1989, configuration of the album before it was abandoned when Prince began work on the Batman soundtrack album. "


.


One of the references on the page was Duane Tudahl's book 'Prince and the Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions'. I've just found the relevant quote in the expanded edition (pages 94-95). Again, it's a quote from Susan Rogers...
.
"He considered putting it on just about every album that I know of, that I've worked with him on, including Purple Rain, Around The World In A Day, Sign O' The Times and Parade."
.
[Edit: Post updated with citation]

[Edited 11/25/19 6:40am]



Yep - that all makes sense to me. While I couldn't see it on most of those other records, MBL is a perfect fit on 1999 both sonically and thematically. I get why he didn't put it on the record - as I also get why he didn't put other songs on, it's just sort of the same as others. Moonbeam Levels = 1999 + Free. Turn It Up = Delirious. Purple Music = All the Critics. And on and on and on.

But I am definitely convinced that he recorded that song in the same spirit as the rest of the material envisioned for 1999. And considering he hadn't yet recorded 1999 the song by then, it makes sense that there would absolutely be no place for MBL once he did as it's vibe is satisfied already at that point.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #55 posted 11/25/19 9:20am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

If he decided to release it as a Bside what song would be the right A side?

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #56 posted 11/25/19 9:38am

VaultCurator

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

If he decided to release it as a Bside what song would be the right A side?

.

It would have been good if he'd placed it on the B-Side of 'Pop Life'. That way the running order for the 'Around The World In A Day' singles would have been 'Raspberry Beret' backed with 'She's Always In My Hair', followed by 'Pop Life' backed with 'Moonbeam Levels'. What a pair of B-sides they would have made? Plus I was never that keen on 'Hello'.
.

Personally I'd have preferred it taking it's pride of place on an album, but it wasn't to be.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #57 posted 11/25/19 10:44am

LoveGalore

OldFriends4Sale said:



If he decided to release it as a Bside what song would be the right A side?



I could see it as the b side to I Would Die 4 U or even Automatic.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #58 posted 11/26/19 8:53am

rdhull

avatar

ML fits in right where LRC does or could have been right after LRC.

"Climb in my fur."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #59 posted 11/26/19 9:34am

scififilmnerd

avatar

Great thread. biggrin

rainbow woot! FREE THE 29 MAY 1993 COME CONFIGURATION! woot! rainbow
rainbow woot! FREE THE 1994 CHAOS AND DISORDER CONFIGURATION woot! rainbow
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 2 of 3 <123>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Updating our knowledge of the vault from the new handwritten track listings