There is a thread elsewhere discussing the new memoirs, but in a couple of the new images, there are some important nuggets of information about the early album concepts and potential vault material.

For the music purists, there are some important facts, and questions, that arise.

Firstly, there is hand written note for a potential track list for 'For You', possibly before Prince even signed to WB (he lists three record labels underneath). The Track list is:

Side One:

1. For You

2. Bodyfreeze

3. Never Really Fell Out Of Love With You

4. You Are Everything To Me

5. I Spend My Time Loving You

Side Two:

1. Soft & Wet

2. Baby

3. Let Me Touch You
4. Love In The Morning

5. Send In The Clowns (J.Collins)

The list seems too presice to be fantasy. Does this reveal there are 5 new songs to add to our knoweldege of the vault, along with a cover of Judy Collins' 'Send In The Clowns'? If it's true, it's one of the last songs I could imaging Prince covering.

Secondly, there is an even more interesting list (made Early/Mid 1982, before the 1999 Album was released) for the track for the 'Dreams' soundtrack (the pre-cursor to Purple Rain). They are listed as:

‘Songs Include

Baby I’m A Star

I Would Die For U

Moonbeam Levels

I Can’t Stop This Feeling I got

Too Tough

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me

I Just Wanna Be Rich

Bold Generation

Among others.”

This a a real eyeopener.

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.

We now know that two songs intended for Dreams (Can’t Stop & Bold Generation), skipped Purple Rain but ended up in Graffiti Bridge.

When you put this track list in context of his character notes for the early draft of Dreams, it’s quite possible that Baby I’m A Star and I Just Wanna Be Rich were to be songs by The Time. ‘I Would Die For U’ and ‘Baby I’m A Star’ may have been the openers replaced by ‘Let’s Go Crazy’ and Jungle Love’; Whist ‘I Just Wanna Be Rich’ and ‘Bold Generation’ were replaced by ‘The Bird’ and 'Purple Rain’ respectively.

Its also interesting to see princebolics developing, using ‘U’, but not ‘4’ or ‘2’ yet.

For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.

Thoughts?

SquirrelMeat said:

There is a thread elsewhere discussing the new memoirs, but in a couple of the new images, there are some important nuggets of information about the early album concepts and potential vault material.

For the music purists, there are some important facts, and questions, that arise.

Firstly, there is hand written note for a potential track list for 'For You', possibly before Prince even signed to WB (he lists three record labels underneath). The Track list is:

Side One:

1. For You

2. Bodyfreeze

3. Never Really Fell Out Of Love With You

4. You Are Everything To Me

5. I Spend My Time Loving You

Side Two:

1. Soft & Wet

2. Baby

3. Let Me Touch You
4. Love In The Morning

5. Send In The Clowns (J.Collins)

The list seems too presice to be fantasy. Does this reveal there are 5 new songs to add to our knoweldege of the vault, along with a cover of Judy Collins' 'Send In The Clowns'? If it's true, it's one of the last songs I could imaging Prince covering.

Secondly, there is an even more interesting list (made Early/Mid 1982, before the 1999 Album was released) for the track for the 'Dreams' soundtrack (the pre-cursor to Purple Rain). They are listed as:

‘Songs Include

Baby I’m A Star

I Would Die For U

Moonbeam Levels

I Can’t Stop This Feeling I got

Too Tough

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me

I Just Wanna Be Rich

Bold Generation

Among others.”

This a a real eyeopener.

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.

We now know that two songs intended for Dreams (Can’t Stop & Bold Generation), skipped Purple Rain but ended up in Graffiti Bridge.

When you put this track list in context of his character notes for the early draft of Dreams, it’s quite possible that Baby I’m A Star and I Just Wanna Be Rich were to be songs by The Time. ‘I Would Die For U’ and ‘Baby I’m A Star’ may have been the openers replaced by ‘Let’s Go Crazy’ and Jungle Love’; Whist ‘I Just Wanna Be Rich’ and ‘Bold Generation’ were replaced by ‘The Bird’ and 'Purple Rain’ respectively.

Its also interesting to see princebolics developing, using ‘U’, but not ‘4’ or ‘2’ yet.

For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.

Thoughts?

I agree with everything you said...apart from the fact that some of the DREAMs songs you think might be The Time songs might actually be Vanity/Apollonia songs... Who knows? Either way, I'd love to ask Michael Howe if he ever found these tracks in the Vault...

As Too Tough...could it be related to Too Rough??

Also, it appears that Prince might have recorded studio versions of I WOULD DIE 4 U and BABY I'M A STAR back well before the 1st Avenue show... Why would he have song titles and plans to put them on the 'Dreams' soundtrack if they didn't already exist???

Has Michael Howe discovered these??

soladeo1 said:

"Send In the Clowns" is a song written by Stephen Sondheim for the 1973 musical A Little Night Music, an adaptation of Ingmar Bergman's film Smiles of a Summer Night.

Sondheim wrote the song specifically for Glynis Johns, who created the role of Desirée on Broadway. The song is structured with four verses and a bridge, and uses a complex compound meter.

It became Sondheim's most popular song after Frank Sinatra recorded it in 1973 and Judy Collins' version charted in 1975 and 1977. Subsequently, numerous other artists recorded the song, and it has become a jazz standard. wiki

poppys said:

"Send In the Clowns" is a song written by Stephen Sondheim for the 1973 musical A Little Night Music, an adaptation of Ingmar Bergman's film Smiles of a Summer Night.

Sondheim wrote the song specifically for Glynis Johns, who created the role of Desirée on Broadway. The song is structured with four verses and a bridge, and uses a complex compound meter.

It became Sondheim's most popular song after Frank Sinatra recorded it in 1973 and Judy Collins' version charted in 1975 and 1977. Subsequently, numerous other artists recorded the song, and it has become a jazz standard. wiki

The interesting thing is, from Prince's persepctive, he noted the writer as J Collins. So he saw the refrence material (cover) as the original.

soladeo1 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

There is a thread elsewhere discussing the new memoirs, but in a couple of the new images, there are some important nuggets of information about the early album concepts and potential vault material.

For the music purists, there are some important facts, and questions, that arise.

Firstly, there is hand written note for a potential track list for 'For You', possibly before Prince even signed to WB (he lists three record labels underneath). The Track list is:

Side One:

1. For You

2. Bodyfreeze

3. Never Really Fell Out Of Love With You

4. You Are Everything To Me

5. I Spend My Time Loving You

Side Two:

1. Soft & Wet

2. Baby

3. Let Me Touch You
4. Love In The Morning

5. Send In The Clowns (J.Collins)

The list seems too presice to be fantasy. Does this reveal there are 5 new songs to add to our knoweldege of the vault, along with a cover of Judy Collins' 'Send In The Clowns'? If it's true, it's one of the last songs I could imaging Prince covering.

Secondly, there is an even more interesting list (made Early/Mid 1982, before the 1999 Album was released) for the track for the 'Dreams' soundtrack (the pre-cursor to Purple Rain). They are listed as:

‘Songs Include

Baby I’m A Star

I Would Die For U

Moonbeam Levels

I Can’t Stop This Feeling I got

Too Tough

Wouldn’t You Love To Love Me

I Just Wanna Be Rich

Bold Generation

Among others.”

This a a real eyeopener.

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain. It does beg the question whether it fits more with the Purple Rain Deluxe (Along with Baby I’m A Star, I Would Die For U, I Can’t Stop, Too Tough, Would You Love To Love Me and Bold Generation), rather than the forthcoming 1999 Deluxe.

We now know that two songs intended for Dreams (Can’t Stop & Bold Generation), skipped Purple Rain but ended up in Graffiti Bridge.

When you put this track list in context of his character notes for the early draft of Dreams, it’s quite possible that Baby I’m A Star and I Just Wanna Be Rich were to be songs by The Time. ‘I Would Die For U’ and ‘Baby I’m A Star’ may have been the openers replaced by ‘Let’s Go Crazy’ and Jungle Love’; Whist ‘I Just Wanna Be Rich’ and ‘Bold Generation’ were replaced by ‘The Bird’ and 'Purple Rain’ respectively.

Its also interesting to see princebolics developing, using ‘U’, but not ‘4’ or ‘2’ yet.

For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.

Thoughts?

I agree with everything you said...apart from the fact that some of the DREAMs songs you think might be The Time songs might actually be Vanity/Apollonia songs... Who knows? Either way, I'd love to ask Michael Howe if he ever found these tracks in the Vault...

Im guessing, but also basing it on semi-logic.

Prince makes it quite clear in the draft that 'Morris Day' craves only 2 things. Fame and money. 'Baby I'm A Star' represents the ultimate in stardom, and 'I just Wanna be Rich' represents 'money'.

He also states that 'Prince & the Revolution' are free spirits and fighting the norm ('Bold Generation).

It wouldn't suprise me that the Vanity love triangle suggested in the script was based around ' Wouldn't You Love To Love Me', a bit like 'Love Machine'.

SquirrelMeat said:

poppys said:

"Send In the Clowns" is a song written by Stephen Sondheim for the 1973 musicalA Little Night Music, an adaptation of Ingmar Bergman's film Smiles of a Summer Night.

Sondheim wrote the song specifically for Glynis Johns, who created the role of Desirée on Broadway. The song is structured with four verses and a bridge, and uses a complex compound meter.

It became Sondheim's most popular song after Frank Sinatra recorded it in 1973 and Judy Collins' version charted in 1975 and 1977. Subsequently, numerous other
artists recorded the song, and it has become a jazz standard. wiki

The interesting thing is, from Prince's persepctive, he noted the writer as J Collins. So he saw the refrence material (cover) as the original.

Not so sure he didn't hear Sinatra's cover on the radio like I did. Peggy Lee also had a very dramatic version. It was a huge song. Wouldn't be suprised if his dad or mom played/sang it either, being a standard at parties etc.

1974 - Prince was 15.

[Edited 11/3/19 5:35am]

Well, I never knew I wanted to hear Prince singing Send in the Clowns until now.

Matthaus said:

Well, I never knew I wanted to hear Prince singing Send in the Clowns until now.

haha, right? bet it's good.

It is interesting also how both bold generation and can`t stop this feeling I got were repurposed for Graffiti Bridge later on... and if your theory of re-arrange proves true that would be a third from that era.

SquirrelMeat said:

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain.

.

Well.. he really liked the track and seemed to consider it for every project after he recorded it. By that time, he had probably decided it didn't fit properly on 1999 and just wanted it for his next project. Much in the same way that he kept liking "wouldn't you love to love me", as he kept tinkering with it (there was a completely unknown version on versions..), offered it to Michael Jackson, released it on the Taja Sevelle album and since that kinda faded into obscurity then still released it himself much later.

.

So... I don't think Moonbeam Levels was "meant" for Purple Rain, as much as that Prince really wanted to release the track and he kept trying to make it fit into whatever he was doing next. Which is also kind of what Susan Rogers keep saying about the track.

mediumdry said:

SquirrelMeat said:

We finally seem to know why Moonbeam Levels was never considered for 1999; because he had already earmarked it for the project that would become Purple Rain.

.

Well.. he really liked the track and seemed to consider it for every project after he recorded it. By that time, he had probably decided it didn't fit properly on 1999 and just wanted it for his next project. Much in the same way that he kept liking "wouldn't you love to love me", as he kept tinkering with it (there was a completely unknown version on versions..), offered it to Michael Jackson, released it on the Taja Sevelle album and since that kinda faded into obscurity then still released it himself much later.

.

So... I don't think Moonbeam Levels was "meant" for Purple Rain, as much as that Prince really wanted to release the track and he kept trying to make it fit into whatever he was doing next. Which is also kind of what Susan Rogers keep saying about the track.

I think you're mistaking If I Could Get Your Attention, or have I missed something?

I've not read the book yet, so don't slate me, but I've seen Prince's notebooks at the O2 exhibition (there was a song called 1010 I believe) and there are many song titles and lyrics that may or may not have been recorded - they may just be written down as ideas with the tune maybe in his head.

Thus in conclusion - not all song titles and lyrics that are written down by Prince have necessarily been recorded. But in the instance of this Dreams configuration i imagine they do exist - although i'm slightly doubtful of the For You early configuration with song titles like Body Freeze, they may just be ideas for song titles to get the creative juices flowing (or even just quick acoustic demos to tape similar to I Feel For You)

[Edited 11/2/19 4:13am]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rusty1 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

We missed a bullet with the omission of Moonbeam Levels. The original Purple & Gold

unreal "Moonbeam Levels" is a great song one of his early " Minneapolis Sound" era material.. i don't get how fans hate on this tune. Purple & Gold was awful.. "Moonbeam" musically & lyrically is a solid song

imagine, if a lot diehard hardcore fans have hate for this track, just imagine the hate from mainstream audiences and music critics.`

For the song not to end up on an album, you know there was a lot of feedback from within the Prince camp with vocal misgivings about adding it to an album.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rusty1 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said: unreal "Moonbeam Levels" is a great song one of his early " Minneapolis Sound" era material.. i don't get how fans hate on this tune. Purple & Gold was awful.. "Moonbeam" musically & lyrically is a solid song

imagine, if a lot diehard hardcore fans have hate for this track, just imagine the hate from mainstream audiences and music critics.`

For the song not to end up on an album, you know there was a lot of feedback from within the Prince camp with vocal misgivings about adding it to an album.

Are there that many? Your post is the first I remember seeing; certainly the first to compare Moonbeam Levels to Purple & Gold!

r there studio ..not rehearsal versions...of IWD4U, BIAS, and Purple rain?

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rusty1 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said: unreal "Moonbeam Levels" is a great song one of his early " Minneapolis Sound" era material.. i don't get how fans hate on this tune. Purple & Gold was awful.. "Moonbeam" musically & lyrically is a solid song

imagine, if a lot diehard hardcore fans have hate for this track, just imagine the hate from mainstream audiences and music critics.`

For the song not to end up on an album, you know there was a lot of feedback from within the Prince camp with vocal misgivings about adding it to an album.

do you really believe that Prince listened to any "feedback from within the Prince camp" when choosing songs for his albums?

jfenster said:

r there studio ..not rehearsal versions...of IWD4U, BIAS, and Purple rain?

A muddy sounding 1981 studio recording of Baby I'm a Star has been available on bootlegs for as long as I can remember. I've never seen confirmation of studio versions of IWD4U or Purple Rain. The common belief is they were most likely only ever worked on live at the Warehouse in 83. But who knows?

airth said:

Freek99999 said:

mediumdry said:

.

Well.. he really liked the track and seemed to consider it for every project after he recorded it. By that time, he had probably decided it didn't fit properly on 1999 and just wanted it for his next project. Much in the same way that he kept liking "wouldn't you love to love me", as he kept tinkering with it (there was a completely unknown version on versions..), offered it to Michael Jackson, released it on the Taja Sevelle album and since that kinda faded into obscurity then still released it himself much later.

.

So... I don't think Moonbeam Levels was "meant" for Purple Rain, as much as that Prince really wanted to release the track and he kept trying to make it fit into whatever he was doing next. Which is also kind of what Susan Rogers keep saying about the track.

I think you're mistaking If I Could Get Your Attention, or have I missed something?

.

indeed, I mixed up the Taja tracks. Thanks for the correction.

SquirrelMeat said:

For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.

.

Kinda revealing how GB is in many aspects a "retrospective" project. A scenario dating back to September 1987, songs dating back to 1981,... I'm wondering if Prince was in a creative lull around that time, because http://www.princevault.co...orded_1990 isn't exactly a treasure trove.

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

For me, the most interesting bit is that he began to develop Dreams in so much detail so early, even before 1999 was released, and that Dreams, in some ways, is more reflected in Graffiti Bridge than it is in Purple Rain.

.

Kinda revealing how GB is in many aspects a "retrospective" project. A scenario dating back to September 1987, songs dating back to 1981,... I'm wondering if Prince was in a creative lull around that time, because http://www.princevault.co...orded_1990 isn't exactly a treasure trove.

That's always been my view of the 88-90 period. Batman was cobbled from an aborted project, GB is littered with old songs, The Nude Tour was basically a greatest hits tour. Even the outtakes from this period are rather mundane and mediocre. As much as I dislike his incorporation of Hip Hop in the following two albums at least the NPG records sounded more inspired.

Bodyfreeze and Let Me Touch You sound like the only tracks that could've been upbeat and funky. The rest of those alternate tracks sound like slow songs. That's what I didn't like about For You and Prince. Way too many slow songs. I'm suprised that Make It Through The Storm, We Can Work It Out, Wouldn't You Love To Love Me, Do You Want To Ride and Rock Me, Lover were not considered for For You. Thank God he didn't put Send In The Clowns on For You. I do believe that I Spend My Time Loving You would've been a better slow jam than Baby, with a full production of keyboards, drums and bass.

I hope I never hear Prince's version of "Send in the Clowns". Honestly, I hope I never hear that song by anyone, ever. One of my most disliked songs ever.

does the estate realize these configurationss would be highly saught after???