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Reply #30 posted 10/17/19 3:00pm

FrankieCoco1

Is this the (as shown on Prince Vault) “early version of the song recorded on 17 February 1979 at Music Farm Studios in New York, NY, USA, during a day of sessions led by Pepé Willie”?
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Reply #31 posted 10/17/19 3:02pm

BartVanHemelen

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The YouTube preview is a picture of the handwritten lyrics: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/X8...efault.jpg .

.

The credits in the YouTube summary are: "Provided to YouTube by Rhino/Warner Records. / Copyright 1979 NPG Records, Inc., under exclusive license to Warner Records Inc. / Producer, Vocals: PRINCE / Composer: Prince".

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #32 posted 10/17/19 3:05pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

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Now it is working in Italy

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Reply #33 posted 10/17/19 3:12pm

TheSilentMikey

LoveGalore said:

Kares said:

.
Prince tuned his instruments to standard pitch (A=440Hz) and this tape plays sharp (and fast). This song is supposed to be in F#. There's nothing subjective or debatable about this.

It's pretty subjective given it sounds fine to my ears. But do you, sweetie.

It sounds off. Way off. It's easily noticeable. Compare it to the album version. This version has its pitch completely messed up (tape issues).

"Don't need no Reefer. Don't need Cocaine. Purple Music does the same to my brain."
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Reply #34 posted 10/17/19 3:13pm

antonb

sorry to kares the person who posted this, for being cynical, I have heard it now, and its pretty cool! Thanks for the heads up

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Reply #35 posted 10/17/19 3:15pm

Kares

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antonb said:

sorry to kares the person who posted this, for being cynical, I have heard it now, and its pretty cool! Thanks for the heads up

no worries!

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #36 posted 10/17/19 3:20pm

Ramzoo

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antonb said:

sorry to kares the person who posted this, for being cynical, I have heard it now, and its pretty cool! Thanks for the heads up

Thumbs up indeed for the guy who posted this thread! We're very lucky for all those new materials but will we keep up considering the whole legacy? I read in the site that someone didn't listen to the Love Symbol since ten years! Impossible for me. Of course I can't tell the frequency but I try to hear everything frequently.

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Reply #37 posted 10/17/19 3:20pm

BartVanHemelen

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Crazy. Next to nothing one year, and now Warners are falling over themselves to get product out.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #38 posted 10/17/19 3:27pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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can someone forward these people a Google search or Wikipedia article on cassette tape speeds or something? Dr. Reverb and Mikey Howe clearly skipped that day of audio class, and it's clearly not going to get any better left to their own devices.

[Edited 10/17/19 15:28pm]

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Reply #39 posted 10/17/19 3:30pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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LoveGalore said:

Kares said:

.
Prince tuned his instruments to standard pitch (A=440Hz) and this tape plays sharp (and fast). This song is supposed to be in F#. There's nothing subjective or debatable about this.

It's pretty subjective given it sounds fine to my ears. But do you, sweetie.

....but tunings/keys aren't subjective, you could literally run any free tuning program to tell you if something is sharp or flat. Whether it ultimately sounds "fine" or not isn't even the question or debate.... There's literally a correct or incorrect answer.

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Reply #40 posted 10/17/19 3:34pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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Mine says "Video Unavailable." Is this one of those non-US international things?

[edit] k, fri@midnite then.

[Edited 10/17/19 15:35pm]

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Reply #41 posted 10/17/19 3:37pm

TheEnglishGent

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WhisperingDandelions said:

Mine says "Video Unavailable." Is this one of those non-US international things?


[edit] k, fri@midnite then.

[Edited 10/17/19 15:35pm]


Said unavailable for me too. I’m in the uk. Need sleep now anyway, hopefully it’ll be all sorted when I wake.
RIP sad
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Reply #42 posted 10/17/19 3:44pm

Kares

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WhisperingDandelions said:

can someone forward these people a Google search or Wikipedia article on cassette tape speeds or something? Dr. Reverb and Mikey Howe clearly skipped that day of audio class, and it's clearly not going to get any better left to their own devices.

[Edited 10/17/19 15:28pm]

.
I talked to Michael Howe about this when P&AM83 came out. He didn't notice that its speed (and pitch) is off. His intention was to leave the audio untouched, without any manipulation that could've been performed to enhance the quality. That is fine, an acceptable approach – however, I pointed out that transferring the cassette using a slightly different speed machine than the one it was recorded with IS manipulation as what we end up with is NOT how Prince played/sang it.
.

For home demos, Prince obviously used cheap, consumer cassette recorders that weren't calibrated properly (most consumer decks were running a bit faster or slower than normal), so when he taped something with a machine that was running slower and today we play that cassette back on a properly calibrated machine, we are speeding it up. This kind of issue should ALWAYS be corrected, not only because it's a very easy fix without any sideeffects, but also because that's how the music sounded at the time of recording it.
.
Apparently though, they still don't agree with this thus we are getting releases with the wrong tempo and pitch... sad
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #43 posted 10/17/19 3:46pm

Militant

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moderator

Sticky'd, featured, and artwork added to original post.

Very cool release!

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Reply #44 posted 10/17/19 3:58pm

toejam

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Kares said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

can someone forward these people a Google search or Wikipedia article on cassette tape speeds or something? Dr. Reverb and Mikey Howe clearly skipped that day of audio class, and it's clearly not going to get any better left to their own devices.

.
I talked to Michael Howe about this when P&AM83 came out. He didn't notice that its speed (and pitch) is off. His intention was to leave the audio untouched, without any manipulation that could've been performed to enhance the quality. That is fine, an acceptable approach – however, I pointed out that transferring the cassette using a slightly different speed machine than the one it was recorded with IS manipulation as what we end up with is NOT how Prince played/sang it.
.

For home demos, Prince obviously used cheap, consumer cassette recorders that weren't calibrated properly (most consumer decks were running a bit faster or slower than normal), so when he taped something with a machine that was running slower and today we play that cassette back on a properly calibrated machine, we are speeding it up. This kind of issue should ALWAYS be corrected, not only because it's a very easy fix without any sideeffects, but also because that's how the music sounded at the time of recording it.
.
Apparently though, they still don't agree with this thus we are getting releases with the wrong tempo and pitch... sad
.

.

Excellent post, Kares. This shouldn't be an issue - it is an easy fix. But given this is a demo, it's also possible that Prince simply tuned his guitar on the fly without a reference note, and as such did it a little sharp by accident. Who knows. I suspect you're right, though.

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
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Reply #45 posted 10/17/19 4:00pm

love2thenines2
003

antonb said:

sorry to kares the person who posted this, for being cynical, I have heard it now, and its pretty cool! Thanks for the heads up



My apologies too! Thanx
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Reply #46 posted 10/17/19 4:01pm

MIRvmn

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I just bought it on play store and I really like this acoustic demo smile
[Edited 10/17/19 16:02pm]
We are living in Orwell's 1984
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Reply #47 posted 10/17/19 4:03pm

IstenSzek

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but why? why now? biggrin i don't understand it. not that i have to understand it to enjoy it music woot!

but what is the plan here? is this the first hint of more reissues coming (soon)? because if they
are not coming soon, what on earth are they doing releasing this BEFORE the 1999 reissue? eek

i hope they will release another (few) reissue box(es) this year. yes, please drool

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #48 posted 10/17/19 4:09pm

Kares

avatar

toejam said:

Kares said:

.
I talked to Michael Howe about this when P&AM83 came out. He didn't notice that its speed (and pitch) is off. His intention was to leave the audio untouched, without any manipulation that could've been performed to enhance the quality. That is fine, an acceptable approach – however, I pointed out that transferring the cassette using a slightly different speed machine than the one it was recorded with IS manipulation as what we end up with is NOT how Prince played/sang it.
.

For home demos, Prince obviously used cheap, consumer cassette recorders that weren't calibrated properly (most consumer decks were running a bit faster or slower than normal), so when he taped something with a machine that was running slower and today we play that cassette back on a properly calibrated machine, we are speeding it up. This kind of issue should ALWAYS be corrected, not only because it's a very easy fix without any sideeffects, but also because that's how the music sounded at the time of recording it.
.
Apparently though, they still don't agree with this thus we are getting releases with the wrong tempo and pitch... sad
.

.

Excellent post, Kares. This shouldn't be an issue - it is an easy fix. But given this is a demo, it's also possible that Prince simply tuned his guitar on the fly without a reference note, and as such did it a little sharp by accident. Who knows. I suspect you're right, though.

.
In the case of P&AM83 we can be sure that his piano wasn't tuned to A=445, as it sounds like on the release. Also, I suspect Prince had perfect pitch, and if I'm right, he didn't even need a reference for tuning. But even if he didn't have perfect pitch, I don't think he would've tuned the guitar THIS wrong. 40-50 cents difference is VERY obvious to anyone with relatively good ears – and speeding up (or slowing down) a vocal recording by this much also makes the human voice sound a little unnatural.
.
And not all the songs are pitch-correct on Originals either, so I'm afraid the subject of the matter is definitely a recurring oversight on Howe's part.
.

[Edited 10/17/19 16:13pm]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #49 posted 10/17/19 4:30pm

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

Kares said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

can someone forward these people a Google search or Wikipedia article on cassette tape speeds or something? Dr. Reverb and Mikey Howe clearly skipped that day of audio class, and it's clearly not going to get any better left to their own devices.

[Edited 10/17/19 15:28pm]

.
I talked to Michael Howe about this when P&AM83 came out. He didn't notice that its speed (and pitch) is off. His intention was to leave the audio untouched, without any manipulation that could've been performed to enhance the quality. That is fine, an acceptable approach – however, I pointed out that transferring the cassette using a slightly different speed machine than the one it was recorded with IS manipulation as what we end up with is NOT how Prince played/sang it.
.

For home demos, Prince obviously used cheap, consumer cassette recorders that weren't calibrated properly (most consumer decks were running a bit faster or slower than normal), so when he taped something with a machine that was running slower and today we play that cassette back on a properly calibrated machine, we are speeding it up. This kind of issue should ALWAYS be corrected, not only because it's a very easy fix without any sideeffects, but also because that's how the music sounded at the time of recording it.
.
Apparently though, they still don't agree with this thus we are getting releases with the wrong tempo and pitch... sad
.

So odd. So his intention was to leave tape audio untouched, but for the full mix down masters we get the other guy submerging all the individual tracks in a vat of reverb? How is that congruous?

His perspective in general just screams a lack of knowledge for how cassettes work, for all the reasons you specify and are clearly aware of. Like I said, I mean, I believe a simple Google search will provide a similar lines of logical explanation... there's no way of convincing this guy of indisputable fact?

[Edited 10/17/19 16:51pm]

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Reply #50 posted 10/17/19 4:34pm

TwiliteKid

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IstenSzek said:

but why? why now? biggrin i don't understand it. not that i have to understand it to enjoy it music woot!

but what is the plan here? is this the first hint of more reissues coming (soon)? because if they
are not coming soon, what on earth are they doing releasing this BEFORE the 1999 reissue? eek

i hope they will release another (few) reissue box(es) this year. yes, please drool



http://princevault.com/in...um:_Prince

It’s the 40th anniversary of Prince.
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Reply #51 posted 10/17/19 4:40pm

AvocadosMax

I DONT SEE IT ON APPLE OR TIDAL
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Reply #52 posted 10/17/19 4:43pm

AvocadosMax

I clicked the link on the violent reality channel, and the video just blank saying “This video is not available” yet its on the official Prince youtube channel

So did they change their mind???? Wtf
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Reply #53 posted 10/17/19 4:44pm

AvocadosMax

AvocadosMax said:

I clicked the link on the violent reality channel, and the video just blank saying “This video is not available” yet its on the official Prince youtube channel

So did they change their mind???? Wtf

Sorry, ****VOILET reality

“Violent reality” would be a funny name for a youtube channel though lol
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Reply #54 posted 10/17/19 4:49pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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AvocadosMax said:

I clicked the link on the violent reality channel, and the video just blank saying “This video is not available” yet its on the official Prince youtube channel So did they change their mind???? Wtf

Earlier in this thread someone said its availability is based on whenever Friday occurs in your own personal timezone, so I'm just clock-watching until then.

[Edited 10/17/19 16:50pm]

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Reply #55 posted 10/17/19 4:51pm

AvocadosMax

WhisperingDandelions said:



AvocadosMax said:


I clicked the link on the violent reality channel, and the video just blank saying “This video is not available” yet its on the official Prince youtube channel So did they change their mind???? Wtf

Earlier in this thread someone said its availability is based on whenever Friday occurs in your own personal timezone, so I'm just clock-watching until then.

[Edited 10/17/19 16:50pm]


Ahhh. So about 4 hours to go lol
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Reply #56 posted 10/17/19 5:27pm

jjam

Well this is a nice surprise...

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Reply #57 posted 10/17/19 5:36pm

williamb610

COOL!

I'm getting it, on Amazon, whenever it's available!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully, there's an album or at least more SINGLES to go with it!

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Reply #58 posted 10/17/19 6:28pm

jaawwnn

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Kares said:



WhisperingDandelions said:


can someone forward these people a Google search or Wikipedia article on cassette tape speeds or something? Dr. Reverb and Mikey Howe clearly skipped that day of audio class, and it's clearly not going to get any better left to their own devices.


[Edited 10/17/19 15:28pm]



.
I talked to Michael Howe about this when P&AM83 came out. He didn't notice that its speed (and pitch) is off. His intention was to leave the audio untouched, without any manipulation that could've been performed to enhance the quality. That is fine, an acceptable approach – however, I pointed out that transferring the cassette using a slightly different speed machine than the one it was recorded with IS manipulation as what we end up with is NOT how Prince played/sang it.
.


For home demos, Prince obviously used cheap, consumer cassette recorders that weren't calibrated properly (most consumer decks were running a bit faster or slower than normal), so when he taped something with a machine that was running slower and today we play that cassette back on a properly calibrated machine, we are speeding it up. This kind of issue should ALWAYS be corrected, not only because it's a very easy fix without any sideeffects, but also because that's how the music sounded at the time of recording it.
.
Apparently though, they still don't agree with this thus we are getting releases with the wrong tempo and pitch... sad
.


I don't doubt your maths but are you sure a 19 year old Prince wasn't just tuning by ear? Going slightly sharp or flat happens all the time, i can name entire albums that were recorded at "incorrect" pitches because the band were just tuning to themselves by ear. I take your point that prince was just using a cheap cassette deck and the problems that arise from that but equally he wasnt too worried about his guitar being perfectly tuned to concert pitch for a quick demo run through. Hell, both could be true at the same time!
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Reply #59 posted 10/17/19 6:28pm

jaawwnn

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Also, this is a cool release! biggrin
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