Dandroppedadime said:

jaypotton said:

I think Prince was a strange paradox. Because of Purple Rain he was seen as a megastar and lumped with MJ and Madonna. IMO he was really more of a niche artist who accidentally hit the big time and, it seems, once Prince tasted mega stardom he saw himself that way BUT wanted to still act (artistically) like a niche artist.

You hit the nail on the head there, although I think Prince truly believed that Love Symbol would sell as well as D&P

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But he wanted to spend no effort. To Prince, it was the record company's job to promote and sell records. But it doesn't work that way, of course.

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Also note that he tried to play the game in 1999 with Arsita and failed miserably and to a degree self-sabotaged it -- what kind of person does an interview pre-release where you announce that "the really good version of my upcoming album is the multi-disc release that I'll only sell to members of my online music service"?

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think there is a different way he could have done it. Going to an unreal war with WB didn't help.

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He didn't go to war. He threw a temper tantrum.

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I mean after her got the masters he went back in fellowship with them in 2013 or 2014.

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And we now know that the 2014 deal was in fact a deal that was originally negociated in 2006, but back then Prince of course blew it off after it basically was done. Apparently the 2014 deal is basically the 2006 deal.

I just double-checked to make sure I had not been diverted from prince.org to WB.org. In spite of the apparent Org URL, I am still not sure.

[Edited 9/11/19 11:04am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

The fact is Prince wasn't the Superstar in the 90s as he was in the 80s. The problem wasn't WB, the issue was the times and artists navigating the scene. It was hard for a lot of great entertainers and artists. RnB singers almost were forced to include a song with a rap on it. Only a few huge artists from the 80s were able to stay on top in the 80s.

That could be a factor alongside with breaking away from WB. I just think by that time he got irritated with record labels and no longer wanted to rely on them for his music career.

It's fair to say that his career hit a plateau in the 90s may have brusied his ego. However, I do admire that he was able to continue doing what he loved and having the resources to keep it going. Even though that can't be easy to mainten but he did it

0uterageous said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The fact is Prince wasn't the Superstar in the 90s as he was in the 80s. The problem wasn't WB, the issue was the times and artists navigating the scene. It was hard for a lot of great entertainers and artists. RnB singers almost were forced to include a song with a rap on it. Only a few huge artists from the 80s were able to stay on top in the 80s.

That could be a factor alongside with breaking away from WB. I just think by that time he got irritated with record labels and no longer wanted to rely on them for his music career.

It's fair to say that his career hit a plateau in the 90s may have brusied his ego. However, I do admire that he was able to continue doing what he loved and having the resources to keep it going. Even though that can't be easy to mainten but he did it

Yes, he obtained a type of freedom. Once he left WB though it never seemed as focused as before.
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The albums weren't hitting like before, but and so he was more into doing tours and shows.
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The block of 1978-1993 and more specifically 1981-1987 was so solid and mistifying that if gave him a foundationa and such a cult following that he was able to thrive...

minnesoundlvr said:

I just double-checked to make sure I had not been diverted from prince.org to WB.org. In spite of the apparent Org URL, I am still not sure.

[Edited 9/11/19 11:04am]

huh

OldFriends4Sale said:

minnesoundlvr said:

I just double-checked to make sure I had not been diverted from prince.org to WB.org. In spite of the apparent Org URL, I am still not sure.

[Edited 9/11/19 11:04am]

huh

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It's the old "if you dare critisize Prince and/or point out that Warners treated him extremely well, you must be on the Warner payroll." Juvenile crap that quite frankly should earn that poster a ban.

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

huh

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It's the old "if you dare critisize Prince and/or point out that Warners treated him extremely well, you must be on the Warner payroll." Juvenile crap that quite frankly should earn that poster a ban.

yeah

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Uh who do we not discuss WB when dealing with Prince

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If I'm not mistaken this is like the ONLY thread about Warner Brothers, so making it seem like this is a Warner Brothers .org is silly

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Also aaahhh didn't Prince return back to work with Warner Brothers hmmm

jaypotton said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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It's the old "if you dare critisize Prince and/or point out that Warners treated him extremely well, you must be on the Warner payroll." Juvenile crap that quite frankly should earn that poster a ban.

Don't often agree with Bart but this place (some folks) sometimes treats Prince like he was God or something rather than a wondefully talented artist who gave us all a lot of pleasure but was ultimately just a mercurial flawed human being. You know it is ok to both love Prince and also be critical of him. It doesn't change or belittle the amazing journey he took us on (some of it awesome some of it frustrating).

Right, 1977-1996 was Prince & Warner bro

and then what year did he reach back to WB to release his music after he received the masters?

His output was going haywire by the 90s, Carmen, NPG, himself, 1800 New Funk, Eric Leeds, Ingrid, George, Mavis, you name it he was doing it. I wonder if Warner felt they were losing money on all these Prince productions that didnt end up actually selling other than his own. I would feel some type of way as a business owner. No other artist was pushing out all these albums at such a pace. This was the time he started geting upset and wanting to own his own masters but that wasnt in the contract.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

It's the old "if you dare critisize Prince and/or point out that Warners treated him extremely well, you must be on the Warner payroll." Juvenile crap that quite frankly should earn that poster a ban.

yeah

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Uh who do we not discuss WB when dealing with Prince

.

If I'm not mistaken this is like the ONLY thread about Warner Brothers, so making it seem like this is a Warner Brothers .org is silly

.

Also aaahhh didn't Prince return back to work with Warner Brothers hmmm

I simply made a personal observation. Is that allowed here, without being called "silly" or being recommended for banning, as one Orger suggested?

paisleypark4 said:

His output was going haywire by the 90s, Carmen, NPG, himself, 1800 New Funk, Eric Leeds, Ingrid, George, Mavis, you name it he was doing it. I wonder if Warner felt they were losing money on all these Prince productions that didnt end up actually selling other than his own. I would feel some type of way as a business owner. No other artist was pushing out all these albums at such a pace. This was the time he started geting upset and wanting to own his own masters but that wasnt in the contract.

OFC massive money was lost with those projects. If you combine all the projects you just mentioned, in terms of sales, they didn't even equal to a GOLD record (500,000 copies) all combined.

Lets be clear here. WB may have treated Prince extremely well but that was at the behest of Prince fighting for that treatment. He knew he was bad (not bad meaning bad, but bad meaning good-Run/DMC), he said so himself in that famed RS 1985 interview. If he hadn't fought for that extremely well treatment to exercise his talent, we may have ended up with just another Obryan. Overall, WB treated him well and he gave them way more in dividends that WB heavily profited from. It went both ways.

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[Edited 9/15/19 16:41pm]

jaypotton said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Don't often agree with Bart but this place (some folks) sometimes treats Prince like he was God or something rather than a wondefully talented artist who gave us all a lot of pleasure but was ultimately just a mercurial flawed human being. You know it is ok to both love Prince and also be critical of him. It doesn't change or belittle the amazing journey he took us on (some of it awesome some of it frustrating).

Very well said.

rdhull said:

Lets be clear here. WB may have treated Prince extremely well but that was at the behest of Prince fighting for that treatment. He knew he was bad (not bad meaning bad, but bad meaning good-Run/DMC), he said so himself in that famed RS 1985 interview. If he hadn't fought for that extremely well treatment to exercise his talent, we may have ended up with just another Obryan. Overall, WB treated him well and he gave them way more in dividends that WB heavily profited from. It went both ways.

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[Edited 9/15/19 16:41pm]

Exactly!

rdhull said:

Lets be clear here. WB may have treated Prince extremely well but that was at the behest of Prince fighting for that treatment. He knew he was bad (not bad meaning bad, but bad meaning good-Run/DMC), he said so himself in that famed RS 1985 interview. If he hadn't fought for that extremely well treatment to exercise his talent, we may have ended up with just another Obryan. Overall, WB treated him well and he gave them way more in dividends that WB heavily profited from. It went both ways.

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[Edited 9/15/19 16:41pm]

I disagree, from the start, WB just opened the doors for Prince to do almost everything he wanted.

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Even George Clinton said WB treated Prince better than anyone black white or whatever

They saw who Prince was and were smitten

minnesoundlvr said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

yeah

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Uh who do we not discuss WB when dealing with Prince

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If I'm not mistaken this is like the ONLY thread about Warner Brothers, so making it seem like this is a Warner Brothers .org is silly

.

Also aaahhh didn't Prince return back to work with Warner Brothers hmmm

I simply made a personal observation. Is that allowed here, without being called "silly" or being recommended for banning, as one Orger suggested?

Well everyone is making observations, but it was a snide comment on those of us posting.

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And your comment is silly. 1 thread about Warner Bro's treating Prince well and all of a sudden Prince.org is not WB.org? Yes silly

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So they suggest you be banned, are you banned?

You suggest we think this is WB.org

Bishop31 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Oh please. Most of his tours lasted mere weeks. Other artists tour for months, even years. Ed Sheeran just finished a 2+ years tour of 260 gigs: https://en.wikipedia.org/...C3%B7_Tour . Prince's longest was IIRC the Purple Rain Tour, which lasted six months and comprised about 100 concerts.

You make a great point. For someone who loved to play live, his album tours were surprisingly short, when compared to other major recording acts.

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He loved to play live, that's for sure.

But he also loved to record - ie in the studio.

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He also did gigs here and there, in between recording and touring, no?

(Have no idea how often that was really.)

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OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

Lets be clear here. WB may have treated Prince extremely well but that was at the behest of Prince fighting for that treatment. He knew he was bad (not bad meaning bad, but bad meaning good-Run/DMC), he said so himself in that famed RS 1985 interview. If he hadn't fought for that extremely well treatment to exercise his talent, we may have ended up with just another Obryan. Overall, WB treated him well and he gave them way more in dividends that WB heavily profited from. It went both ways.

.

[Edited 9/15/19 16:41pm]

I disagree, from the start, WB just opened the doors for Prince to do almost everything he wanted.

.

Even George Clinton said WB treated Prince better than anyone black white or whatever

They saw who Prince was and were smitten

Exactly.

Of course Prince advocated for himself and his interests, as all artists do, but he had no leverage (at least not before Purple Rain). WB gave him special treament not simply because he pounded the table loudly making demands. They gave him special treatment because they believed in him.

For example, when he was an 18-year-old unknown artist WB gave him a 3-album contract with complete artistic control. Of course he pushed for that control, but his advocacy alone wasn't the reason WB agreed. Most artists pushing for artisitic control and were denied.

So how did Prince aquire something (complerte artistic control) that other artists couldn't? Advocay isn't the determining variable because other artists advocated just as strongly as him. What set Prince apart form those artists was that WB believed in him to a degree that they didn't believe in the other artists.

Another example: I'm sure that Prince argued forcefully to be able to release 1999, a double LP. But no amount of table pounding alone would have gotten WB to capitulate. Again, double LPs were reserved for only big name bands, not guys who had one Top 40 hit (I Wanna Be Your Lover) 3 years earlier. Prince got special treatment because they believed in him.

barnswallow said:

Strive said:

BartVanHemelen said: Most artists don't live and breath touring the way Prince did. Discounting the rehearsal done before he hit the road, most of the modern routine was long soundcheck, show, watching/critiquing the show, aftershow. (At least until he went to two shows a night) The Musicology tour may not have been 2+ years, 260 gigs but it was a grueling grind of a tour where he was piling on additional dates. But, even if you don't agree with the idea that he was touring like a fiend throughout his life, touring is what paid the bills. That was my point. He could counter his numerous bad business decisions by performing. [Edited 9/9/19 6:50am]

Looking at Ed Sheeran and Prince: through age 28... Ed Sheeran toured on 3 albums '+', ''x", and '/'; Prince toured on 8 different tours: Prince, Rick James, Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, and Parade. He also acted in two movies and directed one. Just for some perspective, since I know you know that. In the 9 years leading up to today, Ed Sheeran performed in 546 shows; Prince: 354 shows, about 65% of Ed Sheeran's number. Plus, Prince was composing for and organizing how many other acts/groups' tours? I guess that doesn't constitute only 'living and breathing' tours, since he was doing all those other things... but they were all under the auspices of Warner Bros, right? How much money did Warner Brothers make from arranging for Sinead O'Connor to get 'Nothing Compares 2U'? Or, how did that work? Probably could find the answer on some other thread!!!

[Edited 9/9/19 13:25pm]

[Edited 9/9/19 13:37pm]

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Not to forget, Ed Sheeran tours and performes basically alone, almost with the same arrangements live, over and over again ! (very boring live performances by the way imho)

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Prince dragged a circus with him, all the time, and demanded dancemoves etc from his band while performing, all that is rehearsed extensively. EXTENSIVELY! (read interviews with older bandmembers to have an idea how long the rehearsing hours and days were... repeadedly talked about.).

Hits and new songs were always and again heavy re-arranged, thus re-rehearsed by his band, etc.

(Not one known song performed during whatever-tour had the same arrangement, etc...)

That's calld hard work.

I even wonder when IF he found the time to have sex. He sure sang a lot about it.

And we have a saying that goes, 'when you talk too much about something, you need it really bad' or something like that).

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...but we wer talking about WB, right ?

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lurker316 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I disagree, from the start, WB just opened the doors for Prince to do almost everything he wanted.

.

Even George Clinton said WB treated Prince better than anyone black white or whatever

They saw who Prince was and were smitten

Exactly.

Of course Prince advocated for himself and his interests, as all artists do, but he had no leverage (at least not before Purple Rain). WB gave him special treament not simply because he pounded the table loudly making demands. They gave him special treatment because they believed in him.

For example, when he was an 18-year-old unknown artist WB gave him a 3-album contract with complete artistic control. Of course he pushed for that control, but his advocacy alone wasn't the reason WB agreed. Most artists pushing for artisitic control and were denied.

So how did Prince aquire something (complerte artistic control) that other artists couldn't? Advocay isn't the determining variable because other artists advocated just as strongly as him. What set Prince apart form those artists was that WB believed in him to a degree that they didn't believe in the other artists.

Another example: I'm sure that Prince argued forcefully to be able to release 1999, a double LP. But no amount of table pounding alone would have gotten WB to capitulate. Again, double LPs were reserved for only big name bands, not guys who had one Top 40 hit (I Wanna Be Your Lover) 3 years earlier. Prince got special treatment because they believed in him.

Exactement

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People need to really look back the early years 1977-1979 look at all that happened for Prince as an unknown. Just like us they were smitten by Prince, they believed in Prince, they were team Prince. Who allows an artist to record an album, pressed for release and on the ship date cancel it, then record another album, and for the tour bend over backwards to help make that vision happen including an actual river with a boat

.

you said it perfectly. Pounding the table doesn't make that happen.

WB and Me -We Can Work It Out

It would be easy to be skeptical about Davis' enthusiasm, but the undeniable fact is that, regardless of his commercial fortunes, the Artist still holds a great degree of allure among both executives and performers in the music industry. Label honchos often take their ability to work successfully with eccentric artists as a point of pride, and the Artist has no equal in that regard. Performers, meanwhile, view him as the epitome of an artist's Artist, a man who creates whenever and however the mood strikes him and who plays by nobody else's rules.

-The Artist Is Back -- But Don't Call It a Comeback

By ANTHONY DE CURTIS

lurker316 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I disagree, from the start, WB just opened the doors for Prince to do almost everything he wanted.

.

Even George Clinton said WB treated Prince better than anyone black white or whatever

They saw who Prince was and were smitten

Exactly.

Of course Prince advocated for himself and his interests, as all artists do, but he had no leverage (at least not before Purple Rain). WB gave him special treament not simply because he pounded the table loudly making demands. They gave him special treatment because they believed in him.

For example, when he was an 18-year-old unknown artist WB gave him a 3-album contract with complete artistic control. Of course he pushed for that control, but his advocacy alone wasn't the reason WB agreed. Most artists pushing for artisitic control and were denied.

So how did Prince aquire something (complerte artistic control) that other artists couldn't? Advocay isn't the determining variable because other artists advocated just as strongly as him. What set Prince apart form those artists was that WB believed in him to a degree that they didn't believe in the other artists.

Another example: I'm sure that Prince argued forcefully to be able to release 1999, a double LP. But no amount of table pounding alone would have gotten WB to capitulate. Again, double LPs were reserved for only big name bands, not guys who had one Top 40 hit (I Wanna Be Your Lover) 3 years earlier. Prince got special treatment because they believed in him.

I think Prince got "special treatment" because he was, well, special. The WB executives could see right away that his was a singular talent, and they jumped to give him unprecedented artistic control.

AOL LIVE / JULY 22, 1997

Question: What's different about your music now vs when you were with Warner?
TheArtst: listen 2 crystal ball and the truth u will hear what freedom sounds like..
TheArtst: there is a track called baconskin that thumps 4 fifteen minutes..SICK

Love that, so true!

Vannormal said

-

Not to forget, Ed Sheeran tours and performes basically alone, almost with the same arrangements live, over and over again ! (very boring live performances by the way imho)

-

Prince dragged a circus with him, all the time, and demanded dance

while performing,

moves etc from his bandall that is rehearsed extensively. EXTENSIVELY! (read interviews with older bandmembers to have an idea how long the rehearsing hours and days were... repeadedly talked about.).

Hits and new songs were always and again heavy re-arranged, thus re-rehearsed by his band, etc.

(Not one known song performed during whatever-tour had the same arrangement, etc...)

That's calld hard work.

I even wonder when IF he found the time to have sex. He sure sang a lot about it.

And we have a saying that goes, 'when you talk too much about something, you need it really bad' or something like that).

-

...but we wer talking about WB, right ?

There has always been a question I always wanted to ask him if I ever had the opportunity to talk to him, why did you sign that contract if you didn't agree? Have you read it before? Has anyone ever told you that you always have to read anything before signing?

Roby78 said:

There has always been a question I always wanted to ask him if I ever had the opportunity to talk to him, why did you sign that contract if you didn't agree? Have you read it before? Has anyone ever told you that you always have to read anything before signing?

He was very young and may have been focused on artisitc freedom/self-producing.

PeggyO said:

Roby78 said:

There has always been a question I always wanted to ask him if I ever had the opportunity to talk to him, why did you sign that contract if you didn't agree? Have you read it before? Has anyone ever told you that you always have to read anything before signing?

He was very young and may have been focused on artisitc freedom/self-producing.

I believe @Roby78 may be refering to the "$100 million" contract Prince sign in '91 and then immediately tried to get out of. He was 33 at the time and very experienced with the record industry.

Roby78 said:

There has always been a question I always wanted to ask him if I ever had the opportunity to talk to him, why did you sign that contract if you didn't agree? Have you read it before? Has anyone ever told you that you always have to read anything before signing?

His replies about contracts in 1999-2000 are very interesting

Especially the marriage contract