I didn't like Netflix's Motley Crue documentary so hopefully this will be better.

onlyforaminute said:

Jonathan Demme would have been wonderful...world class director and loved musicians. 'He possessed a Rock n Roll' spirit. He is deceased.

[Edited 8/22/19 13:10pm]

PeggyO said:

Vannormal said:

This is so hopelessly dumb. The estate obviously fired Ava because there was something she was going to put into the documentary that might've changed our perception (even just slightly) of who prince was. Whether it was related to drugs, sexuality, relationships, financial stuff WHATever. The prince estate needs to realize that is not 1955 anymore we don't have to hide our problems from the world and be ashamed of our struggles. I feel Prince never could come to peace with this during life, and now the estate wants to continue this legacy of obscuring the truth and hiding stuff. Just let us see the man for who he was!! An exceptional man, but a man nontheless! No one is going to be let down if we find out he was less than perfect.

Prince Netflix Documentary Loses Ava DuVernay

Prince's Friend link:

https://www.youtube.com/w...yYa8twM2P8

drfunkentstein said:

RODSERLING said:

drfunkentstein said:

This is so hopelessly dumb. The estate obviously fired Ava because there was something she was going to put into the documentary that might've changed our perception (even just slightly) of who prince was. Whether it was related to drugs, sexuality, relationships, financial stuff WHATever. The prince estate needs to realize that is not 1955 anymore we don't have to hide our problems from the world and be ashamed of our struggles. I feel Prince never could come to peace with this during life, and now the estate wants to continue this legacy of obscuring the truth and hiding stuff. Just let us see the man for who he was!! An exceptional man, but a man nontheless! No one is going to be let down if we find out he was less than perfect.

I think the main problem was that she wasn't fast enough. Two years, too long.

Ava has a LOT on her plate. Plus from her brief statement “There’s a lot of beautiful material there." It needed to be done right.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

drfunkentstein said:

This is so hopelessly dumb. The estate obviously fired Ava because there was something she was going to put into the documentary that might've changed our perception (even just slightly) of who prince was. Whether it was related to drugs, sexuality, relationships, financial stuff WHATever. The prince estate needs to realize that is not 1955 anymore we don't have to hide our problems from the world and be ashamed of our struggles. I feel Prince never could come to peace with this during life, and now the estate wants to continue this legacy of obscuring the truth and hiding stuff. Just let us see the man for who he was!! An exceptional man, but a man nontheless! No one is going to be let down if we find out he was less than perfect.

Pure unfounded speculation. More likely it wasn't going the way she wanted it to go so thought "I can't do it my way, i'm out". This is meant to be about Prince not about the director anyway. Too often personalities get in the way in these projects.

[Edited 8/23/19 1:07am]

Genesia said:

RicoN said:

ah, so you've got the mug on with her fantasy film because of your fantasy god?

"[H]er fantasy film"?!

A Wrinkle in Time is a book by Madeleine L' Engle. The author, herself, was a devout Episcopalian who made no bones about the fact that the book reflects her religious values. She also scoffed at the notion of it being a "fantasy" saying, "Nonsense about witchcraft and fantasy. First I felt horror, then anger, and finally I said, ‘Ah, the hell with it.’"

Any filmmaker who throws out a writer's intent and makes a film that injects themes and values that are antithetical to those of the author is a hack, at best, and a thief, at worst.

to be honest i've not seen it.

But she got paid , she sold her ideas, they had every right to change it.

lrpro said:

Alex Gibney and Alison Ellwood. I loved “The History of the Eagles”. I personally would like to see someone who is not a Prince aficionado but has outstanding documentary chops.

'The History Of The Eagles" is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Ava puts in a year's worth of work on a documentary, and then leaves because of "creative differences"?

Something in the water does not compute.

Goddess4Real said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Ava puts in a year's worth of work on a documentary, and then leaves because of "creative differences"?

Something in the water does not compute.

EXACTLY. Listen sure deadlines are important but this is Netflix we're talking about. They give pretty wide creative latitude. I might be wrong and yes it is just "speculation" but I believe there was some narrative in there about something that Prince estate would not allow the public to see. Hell it might not have evenbeen about Prince but someone in his orbit who was shady AF who they want to protect. I mean we know he was a man of mystery BUT WHAT OTHER MUSICAN/ARTIST/ICON (except maybe nataly wood) has died and we STILL don't know the exact events that lead up to his death other than that he came in contact with fentanyl. We know Kirk has plead the 5th WAYYYYYY too many times for this to be anything other than some shady shady shit. Hell even with MJ within hours we knew the timeline of what exactly went down. Now I am not saying it is about his death. Maybe Ava wanted to include some segment about his time with denise or anna fantastic or mayte and maybe she took an unvarnished look at the fact that he may have behaved innapropriately with these girls. Or not. Who knows? All I know is that AVa duvernay when she takes on a creative venture she does NOT mess around and shines light EVERYWHERE and reveals all about her subjects good and bad. And imho The Prince Estate IS NOT the kind of group of people to be open about anything. That's why I mentioned the 50s. Even Prince, with the death of his son, god rest soul, chose to BURY BURY BURY and not talk about in a very old school, and imo unhealthy. I suspect his sisters and others in the estate share this worldview. Ava does not. We know that. That is why she was fired. They might share many of the same viewpoints, but in terms of either obscuring the facts or airing them out, I believe the estate and Ava were diamterically opposed.

[Edited 8/26/19 3:00am]

drfunkentstein said:

Goddess4Real said:

EXACTLY. Listen sure deadlines are important but this is Netflix we're talking about. They give pretty wide creative latitude. I might be wrong and yes it is just "speculation" but I believe there was some narrative in there about something that Prince estate would not allow the public to see. Hell it might not have evenbeen about Prince but someone in his orbit who was shady AF who they want to protect. I mean we know he was a man of mystery BUT WHAT OTHER MUSICAN/ARTIST/ICON (except maybe nataly wood) has died and we STILL don't know the exact events that lead up to his death other than that he came in contact with fentanyl. We know Kirk has plead the 5th WAYYYYYY too many times for this to be anything other than some shady shady shit. Hell even with MJ within hours we knew the timeline of what exactly went down. Now I am not saying it is about his death. Maybe Ava wanted to include some segment about his time with denise or anna fantastic or mayte and maybe she took an unvarnished look at the fact that he may have behaved innapropriately with these girls. Or not. Who knows? All I know is that AVa duvernay when she takes on a creative venture she does NOT mess around and shines light EVERYWHERE and reveals all about her subjects good and bad. And imho The Prince Estate IS NOT the kind of group of people to be open about anything. That's why I mentioned the 50s. Even Prince, with the death of his son, god rest soul, chose to BURY BURY BURY and not talk about in a very old school, and imo unhealthy. I suspect his sisters and others in the estate share this worldview. Ava does not. We know that. That is why she was fired. They might share many of the same viewpoints, but in terms of either obscuring the facts or airing them out, I believe the estate and Ava were diamterically opposed.

[Edited 8/26/19 3:00am]

You made some great points but was it necessary to say this?

[Edited 8/26/19 6:13am]

There was a 'white-wash' of Freddy Mercury in Bohemian Rhapsody. I think P's Estate and many of his fans are demanding the Disney version of Prince; anything less causes backlash.Perhaps Ava wanted to explore the more fully fleshed-out man. That is a no-no with the Estate and a great segment of Prince's fans.

drfunkentstein said:

Goddess4Real said:

EXACTLY. Listen sure deadlines are important but this is Netflix we're talking about. They give pretty wide creative latitude. I might be wrong and yes it is just "speculation" but I believe there was some narrative in there about something that Prince estate would not allow the public to see. Hell it might not have evenbeen about Prince but someone in his orbit who was shady AF who they want to protect. I mean we know he was a man of mystery BUT WHAT OTHER MUSICAN/ARTIST/ICON (except maybe nataly wood) has died and we STILL don't know the exact events that lead up to his death other than that he came in contact with fentanyl. We know Kirk has plead the 5th WAYYYYYY too many times for this to be anything other than some shady shady shit. Hell even with MJ within hours we knew the timeline of what exactly went down. Now I am not saying it is about his death. Maybe Ava wanted to include some segment about his time with denise or anna fantastic or mayte and maybe she took an unvarnished look at the fact that he may have behaved innapropriately with these girls. Or not. Who knows? All I know is that AVa duvernay when she takes on a creative venture she does NOT mess around and shines light EVERYWHERE and reveals all about her subjects good and bad. And imho The Prince Estate IS NOT the kind of group of people to be open about anything. That's why I mentioned the 50s. Even Prince, with the death of his son, god rest soul, chose to BURY BURY BURY and not talk about in a very old school, and imo unhealthy. I suspect his sisters and others in the estate share this worldview. Ava does not. We know that. That is why she was fired. They might share many of the same viewpoints, but in terms of either obscuring the facts or airing them out, I believe the estate and Ava were diamterically opposed.

[Edited 8/26/19 3:00am]

[Edited 8/26/19 7:55am]

Yeah. Rocketman is a much better movie. A film that is that honest about Prince would be good. But with an actor that's as good as Rami Malek was as Freddy. The actor that played Elton John just didn't do as good a job. So a film/documentary like Rocketman, with performances like Bohemian Rhapsody.

Neither Bohemian Rhapsody nor Rocketman are documentaries.

PeggyO said:

mediumdry said:

PeggyO said:

There was a 'white-wash' of Freddy Mercury in Bohemian Rhapsody. I think P's Estate and many of his fans are demanding the Disney version of Prince; anything less causes backlash.Perhaps Ava wanted to explore the more fully fleshed-out man. That is a no-no with the Estate and a great segment of Prince's fans.

drfunkentstein said:

EXACTLY. Listen sure deadlines are important but this is Netflix we're talking about. They give pretty wide creative latitude. I might be wrong and yes it is just "speculation" but I believe there was some narrative in there about something that Prince estate would not allow the public to see. Hell it might not have evenbeen about Prince but someone in his orbit who was shady AF who they want to protect. I mean we know he was a man of mystery BUT WHAT OTHER MUSICAN/ARTIST/ICON (except maybe nataly wood) has died and we STILL don't know the exact events that lead up to his death other than that he came in contact with fentanyl. We know Kirk has plead the 5th WAYYYYYY too many times for this to be anything other than some shady shady shit. Hell even with MJ within hours we knew the timeline of what exactly went down. Now I am not saying it is about his death. Maybe Ava wanted to include some segment about his time with denise or anna fantastic or mayte and maybe she took an unvarnished look at the fact that he may have behaved innapropriately with these girls. Or not. Who knows? All I know is that AVa duvernay when she takes on a creative venture she does NOT mess around and shines light EVERYWHERE and reveals all about her subjects good and bad. And imho The Prince Estate IS NOT the kind of group of people to be open about anything. That's why I mentioned the 50s. Even Prince, with the death of his son, god rest soul, chose to BURY BURY BURY and not talk about in a very old school, and imo unhealthy. I suspect his sisters and others in the estate share this worldview. Ava does not. We know that. That is why she was fired. They might share many of the same viewpoints, but in terms of either obscuring the facts or airing them out, I believe the estate and Ava were diamterically opposed.

[Edited 8/26/19 3:00am]

[Edited 8/26/19 7:55am]

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PeggyO said:

There was a 'white-wash' of Freddy Mercury in Bohemian Rhapsody. I think P's Estate and many of his fans are demanding the Disney version of Prince; anything less causes backlash.Perhaps Ava wanted to explore the more fully fleshed-out man. That is a no-no with the Estate and a great segment of Prince's fans.

[Edited 8/26/19 7:55am]

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

I rest my case...

PeggyO said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

I rest my case...

Who needs Hollywood when KCool can write a whitewashing MASTERPIECE?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

The whole lusting after teenage girls and being their friend until he could turn the relationship sexual after they became legal was borderline. It was questionable behavior when he was younger and straight up inappropriate when it was a 50 year old man publicly fawning in the media about Willow Smith.

(Speculation: There's references to her on HNR2 from back when she was under 13. 2.Y.T.D. was tracked in 2011 and you can search "Willow Smith Knee High Boots" to see that there was a number of public apperances where she wore knee high boots from around the same time frame. Same with the electric hair reference. "Till then we can pretend that she's old enough 2 do ya but 2 young 2 dare" is a seriously messed up thing to be singing about a 11 year old girl, even if it was never acted on it. It's more disturbing when you think that the last known person to talk to Prince was Will Smith and Willow emailed him the day of his death with the subject "Are_you_ok???")

That said, I seriously doubt that Ava would've touched on that topic or done anything that would've endangered her ability to use Prince as a pawn for her agenda.

Strive said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

The whole lusting after teenage girls and being their friend until he could turn the relationship sexual after they became legal was borderline. It was questionable behavior when he was younger and straight up inappropriate when it was a 50 year old man publicly fawning in the media about Willow Smith.

(Speculation: There's references to her on HNR2 from back when she was under 13. 2.Y.T.D. was tracked in 2011 and you can search "Willow Smith Knee High Boots" to see that there was a number of public apperances where she wore knee high boots from around the same time frame. Same with the electric hair reference. "Till then we can pretend that she's old enough 2 do ya but 2 young 2 dare" is a seriously messed up thing to be singing about a 11 year old girl, even if it was never acted on it. It's more disturbing when you think that the last known person to talk to Prince was Will Smith and Willow emailed him the day of his death with the subject "Are_you_ok???")

That said, I seriously doubt that Ava would've touched on that topic or done anything that would've endangered her ability to use Prince as a pawn for her agenda.

Prince(r.i.p.) WAS NOT a pedo!

U LEAVE THE SMITH FAMILY OUT OF THIS!

Strive said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

The whole lusting after teenage girls and being their friend until he could turn the relationship sexual after they became legal was borderline. It was questionable behavior when he was younger and straight up inappropriate when it was a 50 year old man publicly fawning in the media about Willow Smith.

(Speculation: There's references to her on HNR2 from back when she was under 13. 2.Y.T.D. was tracked in 2011 and you can search "Willow Smith Knee High Boots" to see that there was a number of public apperances where she wore knee high boots from around the same time frame. Same with the electric hair reference. "Till then we can pretend that she's old enough 2 do ya but 2 young 2 dare" is a seriously messed up thing to be singing about a 11 year old girl, even if it was never acted on it. It's more disturbing when you think that the last known person to talk to Prince was Will Smith and Willow emailed him the day of his death with the subject "Are_you_ok???")

That said, I seriously doubt that Ava would've touched on that topic or done anything that would've endangered her ability to use Prince as a pawn for her agenda.

2Y2D is about Andy Allo, dipshit.

Strive said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

What white washing of Prince(r.i.p.) needs to be done? He NEVER did anything scandalous to whitewash. Besides having access to a whose who of the most beautiful women in the world that he made a star, most threw themselves at him.

The whole lusting after teenage girls and being their friend until he could turn the relationship sexual after they became legal was borderline. It was questionable behavior when he was younger and straight up inappropriate when it was a 50 year old man publicly fawning in the media about Willow Smith.

(Speculation: There's references to her on HNR2 from back when she was under 13. 2.Y.T.D. was tracked in 2011 and you can search "Willow Smith Knee High Boots" to see that there was a number of public apperances where she wore knee high boots from around the same time frame. Same with the electric hair reference. "Till then we can pretend that she's old enough 2 do ya but 2 young 2 dare" is a seriously messed up thing to be singing about a 11 year old girl, even if it was never acted on it. It's more disturbing when you think that the last known person to talk to Prince was Will Smith and Willow emailed him the day of his death with the subject "Are_you_ok???")

That said, I seriously doubt that Ava would've touched on that topic or done anything that would've endangered her ability to use Prince as a pawn for her agenda.

Perhaps u should listen 2 18 and Over a few times and get over yourself.