TheTruth123 said:

I knew this, and have always wondered if “I Love You But I Don’t Trust You Anymore” was written from Mayte’s (or someone else’s) perspective.

Uh no. Much of Rave is a big kiss-off to Mayte, including that song. To think it's anything else is short-sighted. The lyrics are pretty clear.

TrivialPursuit said:

Diamonds and Pearls as if God was singing it

TheTruth123 said:

Do Me Baby

the Belle of St Mark

TheTruth123 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Uh no. Much of Rave is a big kiss-off to Mayte, including that song. To think it's anything else is short-sighted. The lyrics are pretty clear.

Gee. Thanks for the vote of intellectual confidence. You can’t see what I mean? That sometimes he wrote from the other person’s perspective — which is the topic? It is entirely possible he is singing from either of their perspectives at different times during the song.

Except, for that song, he's not. He's singing from his own perspective.

TrivialPursuit said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

206Michelle said:

TheTruth123 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Except, for that song, he's not. He's singing from his own perspective.

The “That wasn’t your dress you had on” line. I’ve always wondered if he’s saying he or they both stepped outside of the relationship.

Prince was a philanderer at times. We know Mayte creeped out.

TheTruth123 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do Me Baby

the Belle of St Mark

Do Me Baby is a possible one since a lot of the words are something a woman might say. Or, it could be Prince’s romantic style. The Belle of St Mark was written for Sheila to sing right? So he had her change it to say “he” instead of “she”.

Yeah Do Me Baby's expression is a female 'surrender' to male. The audio end is definately masturbation.

.

Take me baby, kiss me all over, play with my love
Bring out what's been in me for far too long

Here we are looking for a reason
For you to lay me down

.

Yeah The Belle he left it, a Belle is female, not male. This one mixes with 'gender blurring'

OldFriends4Sale said:

TheTruth123 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Do Me Baby is a possible one since a lot of the words are something a woman might say. Or, it could be Prince’s romantic style. The Belle of St Mark was written for Sheila to sing right? So he had her change it to say “he” instead of “she”.

Yeah Do Me Baby's expression is a female 'surrender' to male. The audio end is definately masturbation.

.

Take me baby, kiss me all over, play with my love
Bring out what's been in me for far too long

Here we are looking for a reason
For you to lay me down

.

Yeah The Belle he left it, a Belle is female, not male. This one mixes with 'gender blurring'

belle

/bel/

noun

noun: belle; plural noun: belles

1. a beautiful girl or woman, especially the most beautiful at a particular event or in a particular group.

   "the belle of the season"

   synonyms: beauty, beautiful woman, dream, vision, picture, pinup, goddess, Venus, siren, charmer, enchantress, seductress;

I wonder if The Belle of St Mark was originally inspired by the St Mark's quadriga that sits at the top of the Arc De Triumph Du Carousel (one of the most famous monuments in Paris).

'Quadrigas were emblems of triumph; Victory or Fame often are depicted as the triumphant woman driving it. In classical mythology, the quadriga is the chariot of the gods; Apollo was depicted driving his quadriga across the heavens, delivering daylight and dispersing the night.' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga)

'Now, it was Napoleon Bonaparte that commissioned the Arc de Triomphe du Carrousel to be constructed, and the original chariot with the four horses was actually taken [in 1797, so for approximately 17 years] from the Saint Mark Cathedral in Venice in one of his battles, but these were returned when the Empire fell in 1815 [Battle of Waterloo], so the quadriga you can see today are copies of those Horses of Saint Mark, with the addition of the two allegorical gilded statues each side.'

'The horses of Saint Mark were replaced in 1828 by a quadriga sculpted by Baron François Joseph Bosio, depicting Peace riding in a triumphal chariot led by gilded Victories on both sides.' https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Carrousel

Peace is a concept of societal friendship and harmony in the absence of hostility and violence. In a social sense, peace is commonly used to mean a lack of conflict (such as war) and freedom from fear of violence between individuals or heterogeneous (relatively foreign or distinct) groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace

Upon closer inspection, we can see that the female driver (goddess of peace) of the quadriga above the monument in Paris is wearing a male toga, a garment of ancient Rome, where the original St Mark's quadriga is from.

This is also an area where a lot of people come to feed pigeons and they often fly over and land on those statues.

Now look at the lyrics of the song again and imagine how Prince would have originally written them based on the above, and it suddenly all clicks into place... I also thought the dark hair and blue-green eyes could have been a reference to jill jones.

Just a thought.

[Edited 8/22/19 5:18am]

Interesting. Prince used a lot of romantic symbolism with the GL, R1600 music

At this time, Jill was bleach blonde, I never thought of her eyes being blue green. Probably just a song of imagery and tragic romance. But definately a colorful 'movie' of a song

CherryMoon57 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah Do Me Baby's expression is a female 'surrender' to male. The audio end is definately masturbation.

.

Take me baby, kiss me all over, play with my love
Bring out what's been in me for far too long

Here we are looking for a reason
For you to lay me down

.

Yeah The Belle he left it, a Belle is female, not male. This one mixes with 'gender blurring'

belle

/bel/

noun

noun: belle; plural noun: belles

1. a beautiful girl or woman, especially the most beautiful at a particular event or in a particular group.

   "the belle of the season"

   synonyms: beauty, beautiful woman, dream, vision, picture, pinup, goddess, Venus, siren, charmer, enchantress, seductress;

I wonder if The Belle of St Mark was originally inspired by the St Mark's quadriga that sits at the top of the Arc De Triumph Du Carousel (one of the most famous monuments in Paris).

'Quadrigas were emblems of triumph; Victory or Fame often are depicted as the triumphant woman driving it. In classical mythology, the quadriga is the chariot of the gods; Apollo was depicted driving his quadriga across the heavens, delivering daylight and dispersing the night.' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga)

'Now, it was Napoleon Bonaparte that commissioned the Arc de Triomphe du Carrousel to be constructed, and the original chariot with the four horses was actually taken [in 1797, so for approximately 17 years] from the Saint Mark Cathedral in Venice in one of his battles, but these were returned when the Empire fell in 1815 [Battle of Waterloo], so the quadriga you can see today are copies of those Horses of Saint Mark, with the addition of the two allegorical gilded statues each side.'

'The horses of Saint Mark were replaced in 1828 by a quadriga sculpted by Baron François Joseph Bosio, depicting Peace riding in a triumphal chariot led by gilded Victories on both sides.' https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Carrousel

Peace is a concept of societal friendship and harmony in the absence of hostility and violence. In a social sense, peace is commonly used to mean a lack of conflict (such as war) and freedom from fear of violence between individuals or heterogeneous (relatively foreign or distinct) groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace

Upon closer inspection, we can see that the female driver (goddess of peace) of the quadriga above the monument in Paris is wearing a male toga, a garment of ancient Rome, where the original St Mark's quadriga is from.

This is also an area where a lot of people come to feed pigeons and they often fly over and land on those statues.

Now look at the lyrics of the song again and imagine how Prince would have originally written them based on the above, and it suddenly all clicks into place... I also thought the dark hair and blue-green eyes could have been a reference to jill jones.

Just a thought.

The belle of St. Mark was a frail but a passionate creature
Ebony hair and eyes of deep blue-green
The belle of St. Mark wore clothes that belonged to her father
Even though she was only seventeen

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

You can tell from expressions that she makes public
That she suffers from a badly broken heart
she smiles as she feeds the afternoon pigeons
But she cries as she walks the night streets of St. Mark

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

The belle of St. Mark she don't talk to strangers
she's so mysterious
Her erotic persuasion provokes me like no other woman
The fire I have for her is undoubtedly serious

I must make her see that she needs love to forget
And if anyone can help her, I can
I can help
I can help you

His Paris hair blows in the warm Parisian air
It blows whenever her Paris hair is there
The man who hurt her surely must have trouble sleeping
'Cause the belle of St. Mark is a beauty extraordinary

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark.
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark.
It tears me apart whenever I hear him cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

If she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die
If she doesn't I'll die

[Edited 8/22/19 5:18am]

Prince bootleg demo of Chakas song he wrote: Never be another fool!

"i'll never open my legs again

to a man so insecure"!!!

OldFriends4Sale said:

He certainly did, I have noticed quite a number of greco-roman references in Prince's work before. I only mentioned JJ (whose natural hair is dark, and eyes, sort of aqua blue) as an additional possibility (plus she is credited for the background vocals on that song). The rest is all there in the song itself though (from the name of the St Mark quadriga to the setting of Paris, the male clothes worn by a 'belle' and even the pigeons lol). Prince's anti-war stance has always been unambiguous and so has the peace promoting aspect of many of his lyrics and visuals (doves, peace symbol, etc). As for 'movie', Under the Cherry Moon also incorporated the majority of the above cultural elements. But I digress...

OldFriends4Sale said:

Interesting. Prince used a lot of romantic symbolism with the GL, R1600 music

At this time, Jill was bleach blonde, I never thought of her eyes being blue green. Probably just a song of imagery and tragic romance. But definately a colorful 'movie' of a song

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if The Belle of St Mark was originally inspired by the St Mark's quadriga that sits at the top of the Arc De Triumph Du Carousel (one of the most famous monuments in Paris).

'Quadrigas were emblems of triumph; Victory or Fame often are depicted as the triumphant woman driving it. In classical mythology, the quadriga is the chariot of the gods; Apollo was depicted driving his quadriga across the heavens, delivering daylight and dispersing the night.' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga)

'Now, it was Napoleon Bonaparte that commissioned the Arc de Triomphe du Carrousel to be constructed, and the original chariot with the four horses was actually taken [in 1797, so for approximately 17 years] from the Saint Mark Cathedral in Venice in one of his battles, but these were returned when the Empire fell in 1815 [Battle of Waterloo], so the quadriga you can see today are copies of those Horses of Saint Mark, with the addition of the two allegorical gilded statues each side.'

'The horses of Saint Mark were replaced in 1828 by a quadriga sculpted by Baron François Joseph Bosio, depicting Peace riding in a triumphal chariot led by gilded Victories on both sides.' https://en.wikipedia.org/..._Carrousel

Peace is a concept of societal friendship and harmony in the absence of hostility and violence. In a social sense, peace is commonly used to mean a lack of conflict (such as war) and freedom from fear of violence between individuals or heterogeneous (relatively foreign or distinct) groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace

Upon closer inspection, we can see that the female driver (goddess of peace) of the quadriga above the monument in Paris is wearing a male toga, a garment of ancient Rome, where the original St Mark's quadriga is from.

This is also an area where a lot of people come to feed pigeons and they often fly over and land on those statues.

Now look at the lyrics of the song again and imagine how Prince would have originally written them based on the above, and it suddenly all clicks into place... I also thought the dark hair and blue-green eyes could have been a reference to jill jones.

Just a thought.

The belle of St. Mark was a frail but a passionate creature
Ebony hair and eyes of deep blue-green
The belle of St. Mark wore clothes that belonged to her father
Even though she was only seventeen

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

You can tell from expressions that she makes public
That she suffers from a badly broken heart
she smiles as she feeds the afternoon pigeons
But she cries as she walks the night streets of St. Mark

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

The belle of St. Mark she don't talk to strangers
she's so mysterious
Her erotic persuasion provokes me like no other woman
The fire I have for her is undoubtedly serious

I must make her see that she needs love to forget
And if anyone can help her, I can
I can help
I can help you

His Paris hair blows in the warm Parisian air
It blows whenever her Paris hair is there
The man who hurt her surely must have trouble sleeping
'Cause the belle of St. Mark is a beauty extraordinary

I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark.
It tears me apart whenever I hear her cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark.
It tears me apart whenever I hear him cry
I'm in love
With the belle of St. Mark
And if she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die

If she doesn't love me I think I'll probably die
If she doesn't I'll die

[Edited 8/22/19 5:18am]

[Edited 8/24/19 3:23am]

TheTruth123 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah Do Me Baby's expression is a female 'surrender' to male. The audio end is definately masturbation.

.

Take me baby, kiss me all over, play with my love
Bring out what's been in me for far too long

Here we are looking for a reason
For you to lay me down

.

Yeah The Belle he left it, a Belle is female, not male. This one mixes with 'gender blurring'

belle

/bel/

noun

noun: belle; plural noun: belles

1. a beautiful girl or woman, especially the most beautiful at a particular event or in a particular group.

   "the belle of the season"

   synonyms:

   beauty, beautiful woman, dream, vision, picture, pinup, goddess, Venus, siren, charmer, enchantress, seductress;

Yes and a woman could “play with” a man’s “love” too. 😉 But definitely good description of the female surrender. I think that’s was one aspect of prince’s female side.

LOL yeah of course a man love stick can be played with lol

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if The Belle of St Mark was originally inspired by the St Mark's quadriga that sits at the top of the Arc De Triumph Du Carousel (one of the most famous monuments in Paris).

[self-snip]

I haven't heard the song you're talking about. However, I would like to thank you for taking the time to provide a deep and well thought-out interpretation. We're all busy and often can't spare more than a few moments to comment on a thread, which is sometimes frustrating when there's a really interesting topic but no one can or wants to engage, but it's always heartening to see a longer, more polished post like yours

SanMartin said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I wonder if The Belle of St Mark was originally inspired by the St Mark's quadriga that sits at the top of the Arc De Triumph Du Carousel (one of the most famous monuments in Paris).

[self-snip]

I haven't heard the song you're talking about. However, I would like to thank you for taking the time to provide a deep and well thought-out interpretation. We're all busy and often can't spare more than a few moments to comment on a thread, which is sometimes frustrating when there's a really interesting topic but no one can or wants to engage, but it's always heartening to see a longer, more polished post like yours

Thank you!

TrivialPursuit said:

TheTruth123 said:

I knew this, and have always wondered if “I Love You But I Don’t Trust You Anymore” was written from Mayte’s (or someone else’s) perspective.

Uh no. Much of Rave is a big kiss-off to Mayte, including that song. To think it's anything else is short-sighted. The lyrics are pretty clear.

Hmmm, I'm not so sure that Rave was a break-up album or kiss-off to Mayte - other than maybe Man O War and The Greatest Romance Ever Sold. Tangerine and Strange But True are about missing a former lover. Hot Wit U and Baby Knows are about wanting to get it on with a hot chick. Everyday Is A Winding Road is Sheryl Crow waxing poetic about going through life. Prettyman is Prince talking about himself. Silly Game was recorded early 1999 when Prince and Mayte were still together, so it seems this songs was also about a former love.

*

Interestingly, during his last P&M show he sang ILYBIDTUA, and he sang "I remember meeting you here in the good old days" and then he said, "the 80's" before singing "I would never pick the flower of my favorite protege." So, it seems, at least for that performance, the song was coming from his perspective, and he was singing about a woman that he gave a ring to in the 80's.

McD said:

Back in the NPGMC days, Sheila E. did a live Q and A for members. I couldn’t resist asking her what the inspiration for Belle of St Mark was, you know, given it was credited to her but she had nothing to do with it. She couldn’t remember... Love... Thy Will Be Done is not only written from someone else’s perspective, it’s written about Prince. It’s a psychological goldmine for anyone interested in deconstructing it. To the best of my knowledge, Martika’s only contribution is the line ‘Love, they will be done. I can no longer hide, I can no longer run.’ Prince adds this little nugget.... “I see all of your creations as one perfect complex. No one more beautiful or more special than the next.” I mean how many human beings alive on the planet could that realistically apply to? Even if you think Elton John’s a genius, it doesn’t really work with him inserted instead, does it. Is Prince projecting a romance with Martika? Is he projecting his own creative prowess on to Martika? Is he simply having a moment of mad self admiration? Is he unaware of how the line doesn’t really apply to anyone else? You could speculate all day.

I always thought he was referring to God in that lyric - not himself. I never thought the song had anything to do with him and Martika. It was his relationship with and feelings about God.

*

*

This is a song about Prine's relationship with God and it helping him to find inner peace.

[Edited 9/13/19 18:07pm]

CherryMoon57 said:

Sometimes It Snows In April?

Prince about Christopher Tracy

Holly Rock

He even says My name's Sheila E....