RJOrion said:

bboy87 said:

Prince's estate has been making great strides since his passing:

.

If you cannot see the flaws in between the 'great strides', what are we discussing here?

RJOrion said:

Free2BMe said:

Just wanted to say that in a 100 years, we don’t know who will be remembered; because neither you, me, your/my children or grandchildren or even great grandchildren will be here to know. However, one thing I do know that IF Prince is remembered, so will MichAel. Michael is so much more than just a singer. 100 years from now, Michael will be remembered for his commercial success, global and cultural influence AND his MUSIC! 100 years from now Prince will remembered for his Music! [Edited 7/14/19 20:53pm]

you started your statement by saying we dont know who will be remembered 100 years from now...then you end it by saying what MJ and Prince will be remembered for, in specifics...lmao...do you even think out, or read the nonsense you type...youre obsession with Michael Jackson is comical...100 years from now he will be remembered as a weirdo who hated and bleached his brown skin and carved away his african facial features and had slumber parties with little boys, which will overshadow his musical accomplishments...because that's how he's remembered now...by millions...his weirdness has been documented and preserved on film...while Prince's talents have been documented in full feature movies and legendary halftime stadium performances starring him...Prince will also be remembered as a virtuoso performer on multiple musical instruments...and a songwriter, producer and hitmaker for several acts besides himself... where's Michael's movies?...where's Michael's guitar solos, or bass solos?..piano compositions?...drum sticks?...Linn Drum programming?...who did Michael ever discover and produce hits for?...where's Michael's Paisley Park?...what label did Michael ever have?...what hits did Michael (or his brothers and sisters) ever have without Berry Gordy's Motown machine?..or the songwriting and production genius of Leon Gamble and Kenny Huff?...or Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?, or Dallas Austin?..PRINCE WON...by alot

RJOrion...as hard as it is to acknowledge what you said about michael, Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in it...

Legacy comes down to how much there is to Study, learn and talk about...

History will be kind to Prince, for as time marches by more and more fascinating information about his Process, becomes made available,

and his genius is what is mentioned over and over again....Prince is a serious conversation starter and virtually has some thing for everyone...

Bass Player, Guitar Player, Producer, Arranger,Composer Style Icon, Sexy MF, etc and

not to mention he remains without Scandal...

Michael, as great as he was,,,didnt really progress past a certain point, his dancing never changed much

nor did his Musical style...and now days you cant mention his name without a tiny bit of a cringe..

Prince take away all the other People around him would still have 5 Albums under his belt, Essentially ,Made by Prince from beginning to End..

Michael ....take away all the other people...?

I also dont think the Scandal around Michael is quite over yet..its only a matter of time before the rest of them come forward...

udo said:

bboy87 said:

Prince's estate has been making great strides since his passing:

.

If you cannot see the flaws in between the 'great strides', what are we discussing here?

I'm not saying there aren't problems. Just saying making his material more accessible to people has been a good thing

RJOrion said:

Free2BMe said:

Just wanted to say that in a 100 years, we don’t know who will be remembered; because neither you, me, your/my children or grandchildren or even great grandchildren will be here to know. However, one thing I do know that IF Prince is remembered, so will MichAel. Michael is so much more than just a singer. 100 years from now, Michael will be remembered for his commercial success, global and cultural influence AND his MUSIC! 100 years from now Prince will remembered for his Music! [Edited 7/14/19 20:53pm]

you started your statement by saying we dont know who will be remembered 100 years from now...then you end it by saying what MJ and Prince will be remembered for, in specifics...lmao...do you even think out, or read the nonsense you type...youre obsession with Michael Jackson is comical...100 years from now he will be remembered as a weirdo who hated and bleached his brown skin and carved away his african facial features and had slumber parties with little boys, which will overshadow his musical accomplishments...because that's how he's remembered now...by millions...his weirdness has been documented and preserved on film...while Prince's talents have been documented in full feature movies and legendary halftime stadium performances starring him...Prince will also be remembered as a virtuoso performer on multiple musical instruments...and a songwriter, producer and hitmaker for several acts besides himself... where's Michael's movies?...where's Michael's guitar solos, or bass solos?..piano compositions?...drum sticks?...Linn Drum programming?...who did Michael ever discover and produce hits for?...where's Michael's Paisley Park?...what label did Michael ever have?...what hits did Michael (or his brothers and sisters) ever have without Berry Gordy's Motown machine?..or the songwriting and production genius of Leon Gamble and Kenny Huff?...or Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?, or Dallas Austin?..PRINCE WON...by alot

Or they'll both be remembered for the barriers they broke, their successes, and the great music they released

Just because they both had different routes and different skills don't mean they both can't be great

Will the scandals and controversies be a shadow on MJ's legacy? It'll always be there for some but I think the work he left behind will be the bigger statement

Does it have to be about who won? Who really gives a fuck? Both dudes have solidied legacies

Prince: Singer, Songwriter, instrumentalist, producer, actor, dancer

17 top 10 albums, wrote songs and produced for The Time, Vanity 6, Sheila E, Sheena Easton, Mavis Staples, George Clinton, Patti Labelle, Chaka Khan, Joe Crocker, Earth Wind and Fire, and The Bangles

Grammy Awards, American Music Awards, Academy Award, Golden Globe Winner

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Michael Jackson: Singer, Songwriter, producer, actor, dancer

16 top 10 albums. wrote songs and produced for Carole Bayer Sager, Rebbie Jackson, The Brothers Johnson, Diana Ross, Blackstreet, Johnny Mathis, Jennifer Holliday, and Brownstone

Grammy Awards, American Music Awards, Emmy nominee,

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

They'll both be remembered for the good and the bad, but what they will be remembered for mainly is their work

[Edited 7/15/19 2:59am]

bboy87 said:

bboy87 said:

udo said:

.

If you cannot see the flaws in between the 'great strides', what are we discussing here?

I'm not saying there aren't problems. Just saying making his material more accessible to people has been a good thing

.

There's BIG problems.

Simply repressing releases is no big feat. It happens lal the time.

(re)releassing stuff on vinyl only without understanding what was the history of them is another mistake.

Prince is largely a Gen X idol. Gen X are the smallest population cohort and are pretty much at the end of their peak of their pop culture significance (stranger things, jimmy fallon, star wars,etc). We may not even get a Gen X president. Sure he'll be remember for a long time but dont expect Elvis, John Lennon level. Is all good. We know whats up.

udo said:

bboy87 said:

I'm not saying there aren't problems. Just saying making his material more accessible to people has been a good thing

.

There's BIG problems.

Simply repressing releases is no big feat. It happens lal the time.

(re)releassing stuff on vinyl only without understanding what was the history of them is another mistake.

I understand

Was just saying making all his work available as time goes is good as it gives more people a chance to obtain and listen to it, that's all.

bboy87 said:

Was just saying making all his work available as time goes is good as it gives more people a chance to obtain and listen to it, that's all.

.

You are too kind.

These music professionals should be well aware that most people have a CD-player.

A subset of those migh have a record player.

Of course the margins on vinyl might be different but the number of CD's to be sold is bigger.

So what was the math that Michael did before deciding on this vinyl path?

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[Edited 7/15/19 6:36am]

*** Ok wow, I've been posting and how am I missing this Prince vs Michael Jackson arguement... ***

Stop, don't pass GO... don't collect anything...

Will be removing all offending posts...

PRINCE. WILL. LIVE.

skywalker said:

pain said:

Prince died 3 years ago but it seems like he died 20 years ago because he is fading You can barely see his albums in the charts And his streaming numbers are very low When you compare his stats/numbers to some of his peers who are dead/still alive,you realise that his stats are very weak Prince deserves to have a bigger legacy

1. Prince is one of the largest selling musicians of all time around the world. - 2. He was his own worst enemy of preserving his legacy. - Another way to look at this is that he didn’t whore himself out (play the game)the way Michael Jackson, Madonna, and others did. Meaning, in 1985 he wasn’t doing Coke commercials even though easily could’ve gone this route many times throughout his career. More often than not, he did what he wanted to do rather than what was commercially viable. This will change over time as his estate is more traditional/commercially minded than he (usually) was. - 3. Prince is the one most famous/influential people/musicians to ever live. What more Do you want? He is one of THE titans of music. Check Bob Dylan’s legacy versus his chart success. How many #1 singles did Hendrix have? How many number one songs for Springsteen? - 4. Charts and streaming are all smoke and mirrors. What I mean by that is, yes it does show some organic/actual popularity. More often than not, they are controlled/shaped/influenced by corporations that want to sell you things. - 5. Fun exercise for perspective: Google image search the word “king”. Then, google image search the word “prince”. Now talk to me about his legacy. [Edited 7/10/19 16:13pm]

This is a perfect explanation.

my initial point was that prince didn't get the kind of attention that draws out all the people that love to spew or eat the dirt, there won't be many scandalous stories of rapes, beatings or the like, although there are always some transgressions in every man's life. It's not going to be news to most people, so, I think, in that way, he's always been just a little off the superstar track, just enough to not attract or generate that. It'll be more about his music and his excellence and productivity as time goes by, just like it was witht the truly great composers.

PeteSilas said:

RJOrion said:

PeteSilas said:

my initial point was that prince didn't get the kind of attention that draws out all the people that love to spew or eat the dirt, there won't be many scandalous stories of rapes, beatings or the like, although there are always some transgressions in every man's life. It's not going to be news to most people, so, I think, in that way, he's always been just a little off the superstar track, just enough to not attract or generate that. It'll be more about his music and his excellence and productivity as time goes by, just like it was witht the truly great composers.

or maybe there is no real "dirt to spew or eat"...Prince hasnt been immune to negative press, or negative opinions, but it was usually the "he's an asshole" or "he's rude" or "he's a sissy" or "he likes women half his age" or "he treats his band members poorly"...just because he's never been brought up on pedophilia or child molestation charges, or rape cases, or convicted of beating or peeing on women, doesnt mean he was "off the superstar track"...besides, after his death, they did spew dirt about how he was a drug addict off and on since the early 80's, so im confused by your comment....every great man, or artist, or composer isnt necessarily a deviant or criminal...

there's always dirt, always, even if it isn't the truth. I'm trying not to bring up other stars as examples but suffice to say, no one will be saying Prince and his momma had sex.

udo said:

bboy87 said:

Was just saying making all his work available as time goes is good as it gives more people a chance to obtain and listen to it, that's all.

.

You are too kind.

These music professionals should be well aware that most people have a CD-player.

A subset of those migh have a record player.

Of course the margins on vinyl might be different but the number of CD's to be sold is bigger.

So what was the math that Michael did before deciding on this vinyl path?

.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 7/15/19 6:36am]

These music professionals should be well aware that most people have a CD-player.

Most people who? I haven't had a car in 7 years that had a CD player. Aside from playing a CD in my DVD player (connected to my TV, so probably not much), the only CD drive I have is an external connected to my computer. I use it to rip my CDs into digital files anyway.

Fewer and fewer people have CD drives, especially if you're going after a NEW audience. Millennials are more likely to stream something or -- if they want to purchase it -- they'll download it.

I think the addition of most of his catalog to Spotify should help keep his legacy alive. It might not keep the Estate alive financially though . . .

WhisperingDandelions said:

Also, a better guage of his legacy is how his piers view him.

There isn't an artist that ever walked this earth that had more respect from fellow musicians/celebrities than Prince did.

He was the celebrities celebrity and the musicians musician. They all knew what time it was.

The coolest of cool lost their cool in Prince's presence.

WhisperingDandelions said:

He was big in the 80s mainstream for like one full album of hits, one single a couple years later, and then he rode Batman for one final lap.

His legacy is what it always was, which is considered among the greats within musician/super music nerd/music historian communities.... buuut, mainstream Joe 6-pack type fans always ask what's the big deal, tout "MJ was better" and can only name 1, or 2, maybe 3 pop hits, unless they were around in '84.

Blame the Purple Rain -> Around the World in a Day transition for the loss of the mainstream. Personally, I thank that transition for why I became a lifelong fan. A silly move for one looking to ca$h out and/or $ellout, total bawse move for an artist.

[Edited 7/10/19 21:03pm]

Yeah, I think this is a pretty succinct overview of Prince commercially. I don't really see why fans need to compare him to a commercial demi-god like Michael Jackson. Part of the fun of exploring Prince's music is all of the nooks, crannies and detours that come with it. If he was tailoring all his stuff with an eye on topping the charts that wouldn't have happened.

leadline said:

Also, a better guage of his legacy is how his piers view him.

There isn't an artist that ever walked this earth that had more respect from fellow musicians/celebrities than Prince did.

He was the celebrities celebrity and the musicians musician. They all knew what time it was.

The coolest of cool lost their cool in Prince's presence.

I'm not musician myself, but most musicians I know think of Prince as a musician's muscian. In contrast, they think of MJ as an all-around entertainer, not a musician.

Prince was an instrumentalist. MJ was a dancer.

I don't deny that MJ had some very catchy pop songs (many written by Quincy Jones) and a tremendous impact he had on pop music. But Prince wasn't limited to one genre and explored a lot of non-commerical music.

Here's the perfect illustration of the difference between the priorities, passions and legacies of MJ and Prince:

MJ's home (Neverland) was literally an amusement park.

Prince's home (Paisely Park) was literally a recording studio.

'Nuff said.

lurker316 said:

leadline said:

Also, a better guage of his legacy is how his piers view him.

There isn't an artist that ever walked this earth that had more respect from fellow musicians/celebrities than Prince did.

He was the celebrities celebrity and the musicians musician. They all knew what time it was.

The coolest of cool lost their cool in Prince's presence.

I'm not musician myself, but most musicians I know think of Prince as a musician's muscian. In contrast, they think of MJ as an all-around entertainer, not a musician.

Prince was an instrumentalist. MJ was a dancer.

I don't deny that MJ had some very catchy pop songs (many written by Quincy Jones) and a tremendous impact he had on pop music. But Prince wasn't limited to one genre and explored a lot of non-commerical music.

Here's the perfect illustration of the difference between the priorities, passions and legacies of MJ and Prince:

MJ's home (Neverland) was literally an amusement park.

Prince's home (Paisely Park) was literally a recording studio.

'Nuff said.

I agree with all of that, but, how did MJ become a part of this?

lurker316 said:

His legacy is big enough! Prince is the one who's legacy is about MUSIC! His demise didn't and still doesn't change that. He's has people who have honored and still continue to honor him with much respect and the Blackish episode was everything. Paisley Park is a museum, not land that's just sitting there and later sold. There's no circus based on him because his life is not a circus and I am hoping that after Ava did justice with "When They See Us" that Prince's documentary with get the same results, instead of mockumentary of two liars lying years after his demise. Prince's legacy is fine!

pain said:

lurker316 said:

I have made a similar argument.

100 years from now MJ will be remembered for his commerical success and cultural influence.

100 years from now Prince will be remember for his music.

Why do you think that? We don't have to like MJ to admit that his music is more celebrated than prince's music Even with the negative press he is still outselling,outearning,outstreaming and outcharting prince I always thought that MJ will fade just 3-5 years after his death but i was wrong There is no sign that he is fading even with that movie...on streaming platforms his numbers are still increasing We don't need to like him to admit that beside his incredible commercial success he made great music that is why even after his deathh people around the world continue to listen his music If his music was garbage he would have faded after his death

That wasn't no movie, that was bullshitamentary with bullshit liars and Oprah's full of shit for interviewing them. #Mute Michael Jackson: I don't think so!

lurker316 said:

leadline said:

Also, a better guage of his legacy is how his piers view him.

There isn't an artist that ever walked this earth that had more respect from fellow musicians/celebrities than Prince did.

He was the celebrities celebrity and the musicians musician. They all knew what time it was.

The coolest of cool lost their cool in Prince's presence.

I'm not musician myself, but most musicians I know think of Prince as a musician's muscian. In contrast, they think of MJ as an all-around entertainer, not a musician.

Prince was an instrumentalist. MJ was a dancer.

I don't deny that MJ had some very catchy pop songs (many written by Quincy Jones) and a tremendous impact he had on pop music. But Prince wasn't limited to one genre and explored a lot of non-commerical music.

Here's the perfect illustration of the difference between the priorities, passions and legacies of MJ and Prince:

MJ's home (Neverland) was literally an amusement park.

Prince's home (Paisely Park) was literally a recording studio.

'Nuff said.

Incredibly false. Jones has ONE writing credit (PYT) mainly because the title was his idea

Of Jackson's period of collaborating with Quincy Jones, he released 22 singles. 15 were written by Jackson, including 9 of his 13 number ones. The demos are readibly available

Quincy Jones played a big part, but he wasn't writing songs for MJ

Se7en said:

These music professionals should be well aware that most people have a CD-player.

Most people who?

.

If you are the type that throws away gear too soon yes.

But in such case: why no downloads?

Nice 24/96 or better audio?

It simply shows that the vinuyl choice is weird.

TurnItUp said:

RJOrion said:

Free2BMe said:

RJOrion said:

but thats YOUR opinion...theres millions of people that will see it as fact because it was presented to them as such...unfortunately for MJ, you alone dont get to determine his lasting public legacy...whether that documentary is right or wrong, its going to leave a damaging blemish on the public's perception of Michael Jackson and his legacy...just like the public perception of Prince in alot of peoples' minds will be that he was hiding a drug addiction for years, and may have been suicidal...the mass media ultimately shapes how these entertainers legacies are shaped and viewed into the future...whether right or wrong good or bad...

But there are MILLIONS of prople who don’t see the fraudomentary as fact because they were intelligent to see the liars for what they are. I have read so many testimonials of people who have become fans BECAUSE of the child porn/pedo FANTASY film. These people say they became fans, after first believing the fraudomentary, because they Researched and found the FACTS and EVIDENCE to prove Michael’s innonce. The only people ignorant and gullible enough to believe two proven liars, are those who WANT this be true. No normal, intelligent, rational and sane person believes that crap. It has been debunked in every way possible. Michael’s music is still being played more than ever, his music is still selling more than his peers, his fandom is still strong and so is his legacy and that’s all that matters. Cancel who?

as a huge mj fan, i watched the docu, it's hard to say what's true, it's a fact that both guys have lied before though so they aren't the innocent victims they are trying to portray themselves as. What's more, even if Mj was a pedo, i'll still be a fan forever. I know that's too much to ask of most people though. However, with Prince, the point i was making was that he was never under that kind of scrutiny that the other superstars were except for the purple rain portion which he screwed up a lot sooner than the other superstars of the era, the attitude, the smugness, the whole "fuck you world" thing didn't go over well with the american public and Prince didn't like the pressure to conform so both parties went their seperate ways. After that, his success was spotty on the charts.