Mikado said:

pain said:

Prince was great and was a genius but to say that MJ is just known as the most popular entertainer that ever lived is a lie.

The Beatles sold more than any other act, so wouldn't that mean that the Fabs are the most popular? They've probably been written about more too.

Prince's legacy will be fine, and his legend will only grow. How much of beethoven or mozarts' or ellingtons music do most people know? Most have heard of them and their reps. I think the "bigger" thing is doubled edged too, how many times after elvis and michael died has some book or story come out recounting how vile and evil they were? I don't think that'll happen to prince, elvis and mj's legacies have both taken a lot of hits, a lot and the stories have been heard by a lot of fans, a lot of non-fans a lot of former fans.., i don't see that happening to Prince.

PeteSilas said:

RJOrion said:

Mikado said:

You think that Prince was doing the same thing?

nah...and Prince didnt want to be a part of Mike's corny We Are The World project...and Prince declined Mike's invitation to duet on "Bad", with its highly suspect opening lyrics

Both of those dudes were competitive with each other and everyone else. That's a factor on how they continued to stay in the game

Them being around made things so much more interesting....

Free2BMe said:

Everyone who worked with Michael or met him or knew him personally said he was the most humble, kindest, most giving and charitable person they had met. I believe those people over any tabloid, rumor, speculation or innuendo.

What do you think about Terence Trent D'Arby always saying Mike or his people sabotaged his career at CBS Records? Terence praises Mike as a performer, but still tells this story. Or Clive Davis saying that Mike called him to ask him not to release Jermaine's Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' as a single

WhisperingDandelions said:

kewlschool said:

100 years from now. Most wont no who MJ was. Based on history and how singers are remembered. Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googiling)? You can't. History doesn't care.

I mean, uh, it stands to reason if you're making music in the middle of the 1800s and the ability to record sound hasn't even been invented yet, then yeah, composers and their compositions are of course going to be better remembered than the performers...

[Edited 7/11/19 23:33pm]

Then why aren't the actor's or the athletes remembered? Theater was huge back then.

Oh, recording devices have been around for longer than you think late 1800's.

And don't forget music boxes have been around for hundreds of years.

MickyDolenz said:

kewlschool said:

Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googling)?

How can someone determine who was a successful singer in music before there was a recording industry and the later mass media of radio & television? Who were they popular to? The classical guys played to mainly rich white people mostly in Europe. So that's not music of the general public, nor for places like Africa or South America. Just because somebody is a songwriter or composer doesn't mean they'll be more remembered. The general public do not care who who writes songs or not. I still hear Milli Vanilli played on the radio and their videos on Youtube have millions of views and there's supposed to be a biopic made about them. The only reason anybody is remembered is because they're still promoted. People today know who Jesus Christ is because churches are still around and also on TV. People know ancient characters like Thor & Hercules because there's TV shows, comic books, & movies featuring them. It's A Wonderful Life & Charlie Brown are known by several generations because they are shown on TV every year at Christmas. Why is Elvis Presley more known than Fats Domino, Jackie Wilson, or Pat Boone? Because Elvis is on all kinds of merchandise, his movies are still shown on TV, and he gets talked about in the media more. His records are given more attention than Fats Domino or Little Richard, whose albums are more likely to be out of print. The Monkees got a whole new audience because MTV reran their sitcom in the mid-1980s. Same with A Star Is Born getting remade several times decades apart. Superman & Mickey Mouse have remained really popular, but Krazy Kat & Deputy Dawg, who are not promoted today to the same extent, not so much. Anyway, WHO wrote the history and who was it written for? The president of the USA (Woodrow Wilson) when the movie Birth Of A Nation came out called it a true story.

Mozart, Beethoven,Bach etc. Remembered without recordings. Purely based on their compositions. Are all composers going to be remembered? No. Yet, the cream of the crop do. I feel Prince fits that level for his style of music. People care who wrote the music, especially music that stands the test of time. Mozart, Beethoven, Bach those names bring people to see orchestras. Beatles music, Prince, *Cole Porter, *Gerswhin, etc. will most likely do in the future.* those two composers already bring people to see shows.

PeteSilas said:

Prince's legacy will be fine, and his legend will only grow. How much of beethoven or mozarts' or ellingtons music do most people know? Most have heard of them and their reps. I think the "bigger" thing is doubled edged too, how many times after elvis and michael died has some book or story come out recounting how vile and evil they were? I don't think that'll happen to prince, elvis and mj's legacies have both taken a lot of hits, a lot and the stories have been heard by a lot of fans, a lot of non-fans a lot of former fans.., i don't see that happening to Prince.

I bet you the various recordings of Mozart compositions over the last 100 years or so-have sold more than the Beattles or MJ.

[Edited 7/14/19 8:24am]

Prince's Legacy is just fine where it is. I thank you 4 starting this thread because usually I just read the posts here but this one made me want to respond. Prince holds one of the most unique places in our entire culture. His influences are everywhere, if you just know how to spot them. And that's one of my favorite things about him, it's not oftne in your face but it's very subtle and every present.

To start with he is the muscian's musician. He is completely respected by prior and current generations of bands and musicians who consistently play homage to him. That's why I love it when Radiohead, 3eb, JT, Jay Z, Foo fighters, Gun N Roses, Bruno Mars, John Mayer, Alicia Keys, D'Angelo etc... I go on and on but it's amazing when a singular pop musician who crossed gender and race lines has not only popular music's respect but also musical critics as well. Musician, Rolling Stone, Guitar World, Bass Magazine, etc. love to pay critical compliments to this man and his passion of music. It's hard to say that for alot of other musicians since they are either regarded as just pop stars or just as hardcore musicians who never had an impact on the charts.


Go to any record store (yes they still exist) or go online to various online stores that sell concerts or go to trade fairs or markets. Prince's stuff is always the most interesting and extensive. Which brings me to my favorite part of Prince. His live shows was the stuff of legend. Rather than being exposed onstage as not as interesting as his studio recorded stuff Prince always took it to another level and revamped his songs and artistry into an entirely other experiencing. As time move forwards people will keep talking about it which they already do anytime articles are written about best live performers.

But lets move on to movies. There are tons of directors and stars who name drop Prince into their movies. The most recent and blatent example of this was in the netflix movie wine trip. An entire conversation about our boy in the jacuzzi. And to close with the closing song with a tribute band is a nice touch. Spike Lee and others always show their love for P. It was cool recently to see the superhero movie (forgot the name) where they show Prince in a the news. Whether it's Universal making a new movie with all his music or the netflix documentary coming out Prince's legacy is alive and well.

How many random influential people talk about thier love of Prince on a constant basis. When I walked into Paisley Park and saw Obama's letter about him framed on the wall it made me smile. On the day he passed our President at that time felt compelled to say a few kind words about his influence on modern day world. I could on and on about different people mentioning Prince in a kind and influential way but it be a book in itself. You all get the idea.

We all know one of the biggest stages to play to the world is the Superbowl. It is not by chance that Prince is consistenly regarded as the best Superbowl performance. It's not by chance that entire city expresses their love by opening a store to sell goods at thier airport. It's not by chance that numerous sporting events and teams incorporate a Prince nod to him out of respect. That's why I wasn't surprised when the company managing Elvis Presley estate Graceland opted to run Paisley Park as well. That's how much influence in our culture Prince has.

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. I will close with this. I go to a lot of Prince tribute band shows. They are a testament to our guy. The crowds are diverse. People are having fun and they are always a good time. I make it a point to bring friends who don't know his music that well. They always leave saying "WoW, what a blast!" And when I wear my symbol necklace or a Prince T-shirt to say it loud and proud the most random people come up to me and nod in approval or just stop me and say things like "Respect!" or "Love that guy" or "Can I have your T-shirt because he is the man".

His Legacy is intact, alive and growing. U just have to know how to c it!

[Edited 7/14/19 9:15am]

[Edited 7/14/19 9:16am]

[Edited 7/14/19 9:18am]

[Edited 7/14/19 9:26am]

[Edited 7/14/19 9:31am]

kewlschool said:

I bet you the various recordings of Mozart compositions over the last 100 years or so-have sold more than the Beatles or MJ.

If that is so, then who is the main audience and performers for classical music & opera? White people (and usually more upper class at that). Which is the same for rock music and Shakespere plays. In general, more money is spent to promote white entertainment. Which is why Marvel is really successful worldwide, but Tyler Perry's movies/TV is mostly known in the states. If Black Panther wasn't made by Marvel, would it have been as successful or would it have been closer to Meteor Man? It is said that white movies from Hollywood sell more internationally than ones with other races. Non-whites get networks specifically for them like BET & Telemundo or a special awards show like the Latin Grammys & Soul Train Awards. Theoretically, a Chinese or Indian singer could only sell in their own country and sell more than anybody else in history without being known in other countries. The same way Garth Brooks is one of the biggest selling acts in history with being primarily known in the USA. Country music is not as popular in other countries as in the USA.

onlyforaminute said:

RJOrion said:

onlyforaminute said:

Basically your saying anything headed by black folks or rather any minority can't be successful. Tyler Perry doesn't have the world recognition like Disney therefore that equals failure?

I didn't said anything about failing, but who or what is the most successful, so are the most known and make the most money. The entire entertainment business is based on a star system. A mainstream act is known by more people than one marketed to a specific audience like R&B and techno. Even if people don't actually know his music, many have heard of Elvis Presley. The Beatles have had many reissues and had several movies made about them or feature their music. Recently there were movies about Elton John & Queen. If Prince had not crossed over to the mainstream, this site probably wouldn't exist. You think if Lionel Richie wasn't mainstream he would have gotten the hosting job on American Idol? There's a difference in the sales & popularity of Michael & Janet Jackson who crossed over to the Top 40 audience and Jermaine Jackson, who mostly had R&B hits with very few that were Top 40 hits. Acts with mainstream popularity get more media recognition, either by TV coverage or having magazine/newspaper articles, & books written about them. I can find hundreds of books about The Beatles & Elvis and lots of video footage of them too. That didn't happen with acts mainly known to the R&B audience. That has nothing to do with failure, just they didn't get the same amount of promotion or attention as acts marketed to the mainstream. A mainstream act can flop, that isn't the same thing as not being a household name. There wasn't a Rolling Stone type of magazine for R&B acts until Vibe in the 1990s and that is more hip hop era. If you want to find out info about Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Rolling Stones, or Eric Clapton, it's not that hard to do. Can't say the same for Johnnie Taylor or The Isley Brothers. They were less documented and their catalog does not get the deluxe reissues like Led Zeppelin or Eagles. The rock bands had a lot of extra unreleased material because they were given bigger recording budgets in the first place.

RJOrion said:

onlyforaminute said:

Seriously? You are making similarities between Disney backed Mavel versus Tyler Perry? Not a good look. Basically your saying anything headed by black folks or rather any minority can't be successful. Tyler Perry doesn't have the world recognition like Disney therefore that equals failure? So much for faith and belief in the American dream.

that seems to be a recurring theme in his/her comments... just like his/her reliance on using "top40" charts as the definitive barometer when judging the legacy of black/brown artists...and rendering any other genres as "sub-genres" or "niche"...

I used to read Billboard every week. The mainstream charts were called the Hot 100 for singles & Billboard 200 for albums. The others were called sub-charts in the magazine. I didn't name it that. The Hot 100 is the mainstream pop chart, which plays different genres. "Pop" is short for "popular music", it's not a genre into itself. Like in the 1980s, Top 40 would play Guns n Roses, Michael Jackson, Depeche Mode, Tracy Chapman, Kenny Rogers, Christopher Cross, & New Kids On The Block all on the same station. It's not segregated like a country radio station would be. Country radio only plays country artists, it doesn't play Kraftwerk. "Top 40" is the 1st 40 songs on the "Hot 100". The other sub-charts (aka non-mainstream) were for specific radio formats for different audiences like country, R&B, Album Oriented Rock, jazz, alternative rock/college rock, 12" maxi singles, dance music, polka, blues, gospel, contemporary Christian, etc. There's also charts for the highest grossing concerts for that week and for video games. There used to be charts in Billboard for videocassettes & laserdiscs. In differnet decades, the Billboard charts had different names. Like R&B has been titled "Race Music", Harlem Hit Parade, Soul, Rhythm and Blues, Black Music, R&B/Hip Hop, Urban Contemporary, Adult R&B, and so on.

MickyDolenz said:

vinaysfunk said:

MickyDolenz said:

RJOrion said:

Billboard has LONG been acknowledged as racist for decades...any simple google search on that dynamic will pull up endless links attesting to that...them pulling Lil Nas X from their "country music" charts is the most recent controversy regarding their jaded and systematic biases...so YOU using Billboard as a measuring stick, speaks volumes... so you can miss me with your 1000 word gibberish filled essays ...theres a nation of millions who dont believe you, or agree with you... [Edited 7/14/19 15:43pm]

Didn't say they were or weren't. The entire mainstream media in the US is white run or owned. That's why I said mainstream popular artists get more media coverage. Because that's what their readers want to know about and they're trying to sell magazines. So they're more famous and/or more documented. That is all I was talking about. I didn't only talk about black artists, I mentioned that polka & alternative rock are considered sub-genres. Polka is pretty much a white genre. I also said that country & glam metal had to crossover to mainstream to get bigger sales. It's also true that acts like The Beatles have a lot of books written about them. What is gibberish about that?

vinaysfunk said:

Prince's Legacy is just fine where it is. I thank you 4 starting this thread because usually I just read the posts here but this one made me want to respond. Prince holds one of the most unique places in our entire culture. His influences are everywhere, if you just know how to spot them. And that's one of my favorite things about him, it's not oftne in your face but it's very subtle and every present.

To start with he is the muscian's musician. He is completely respected by prior and current generations of bands and musicians who consistently play homage to him. That's why I love it when Radiohead, 3eb, JT, Jay Z, Foo fighters, Gun N Roses, Bruno Mars, John Mayer, Alicia Keys, D'Angelo etc... I go on and on but it's amazing when a singular pop musician who crossed gender and race lines has not only popular music's respect but also musical critics as well. Musician, Rolling Stone, Guitar World, Bass Magazine, etc. love to pay critical compliments to this man and his passion of music. It's hard to say that for alot of other musicians since they are either regarded as just pop stars or just as hardcore musicians who never had an impact on the charts.


Go to any record store (yes they still exist) or go online to various online stores that sell concerts or go to trade fairs or markets. Prince's stuff is always the most interesting and extensive. Which brings me to my favorite part of Prince. His live shows was the stuff of legend. Rather than being exposed onstage as not as interesting as his studio recorded stuff Prince always took it to another level and revamped his songs and artistry into an entirely other experiencing. As time move forwards people will keep talking about it which they already do anytime articles are written about best live performers.

But lets move on to movies. There are tons of directors and stars who name drop Prince into their movies. The most recent and blatent example of this was in the netflix movie wine trip. An entire conversation about our boy in the jacuzzi. And to close with the closing song with a tribute band is a nice touch. Spike Lee and others always show their love for P. It was cool recently to see the superhero movie (forgot the name) where they show Prince in a the news. Whether it's Universal making a new movie with all his music or the netflix documentary coming out Prince's legacy is alive and well.

How many random influential people talk about thier love of Prince on a constant basis. When I walked into Paisley Park and saw Obama's letter about him framed on the wall it made me smile. On the day he passed our President at that time felt compelled to say a few kind words about his influence on modern day world. I could on and on about different people mentioning Prince in a kind and influential way but it be a book in itself. You all get the idea.

We all know one of the biggest stages to play to the world is the Superbowl. It is not by chance that Prince is consistenly regarded as the best Superbowl performance. It's not by chance that entire city expresses their love by opening a store to sell goods at thier airport. It's not by chance that numerous sporting events and teams incorporate a Prince nod to him out of respect. That's why I wasn't surprised when the company managing Elvis Presley estate Graceland opted to run Paisley Park as well. That's how much influence in our culture Prince has.

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. I will close with this. I go to a lot of Prince tribute band shows. They are a testament to our guy. The crowds are diverse. People are having fun and they are always a good time. I make it a point to bring friends who don't know his music that well. They always leave saying "WoW, what a blast!" And when I wear my symbol necklace or a Prince T-shirt to say it loud and proud the most random people come up to me and nod in approval or just stop me and say things like "Respect!" or "Love that guy" or "Can I have your T-shirt because he is the man".

His Legacy is intact, alive and growing. U just have to know how to c it!

MickyDolenz said:

onlyforaminute said:

Yes, you are saying that. I guess the Isley Brothers shouldn't have even bothered getting into the music business since their stuff isn't selling at Beatles numbers? That's all that seems to be classified as being successful.

Not selling Beatles numbers isn't saying someone is a failure. Classical music albums don't sell as well as The Beatles either and they don't get pop radio airplay. That doesn't mean that an orchestra doesn't make money at all or failed. I'm only talking about fame. Artists well known to mainstream audience are going to get more media coverage, so more publicity, and so are going to be known by more people. Saying Marvel movies are known by more people than Tyler Perry movies is no different in saying that McDonald's is more well known than a vegan restaurant. Doesn't mean that a vegan restaurant failed or is not successful. Just that McDonald's is really famous & appeals to more people than vegan food. My point is that because The Beatles are have more fame than The Isley Brothers, more has been written about The Beatles while they were an active group and still today. I wasn't talking about anybody failing in the first place, but that more fame = more media coverage and the record labels are more likely to do something with more well known artists music. A less popular artist albums are more likely to be out of print, so are not getting any promotion.

Strive said:

Strive said:

Jewish owned and operated. Not white.

Last time I looked at an application it had the choice "white not of Hispanic origin". Not Jewish, Italian, or Irish.

SoulAlive said:

Prince has an amazing legacy.He will always be considered one of the greatest artists of all time.

kewlschool said:

Prince's estate has been making great strides since his passing:

The Celebration events, making his post 95 albums accessible again, the vinyl reissues with WB and Sony, Originals, Piano & A Microphone '83, releasing Syracuse '85 with Purple Rain deluxe, putting his videos on Youtube, and his presence on streaming services

I would like to see more deluxe re-releases of the albums, releases of the concerts and video projects that were already available on home video or TV only be made available again but on blu ray and streaming services:

Cobo '85

Lovesexy Live

Act I

The Undertaker

He already had a massive legacy that will only continue to grow. TBH, they don't even have to release another posthumous album and he'll still be a big presence in music

Free2BMe said: