kewlschool said:

lurker316 said:

pain said:

lurker316 said:

I have made a similar argument.

100 years from now MJ will be remembered for his commerical success and cultural influence.

100 years from now Prince will be remember for his music.

Why do you think that? We don't have to like MJ to admit that his music is more celebrated than prince's music Even with the negative press he is still outselling,outearning,outstreaming and outcharting prince I always thought that MJ will fade just 3-5 years after his death but i was wrong There is no sign that he is fading even with that movie...on streaming platforms his numbers are still increasing We don't need to like him to admit that beside his incredible commercial success he made great music that is why even after his deathh people around the world continue to listen his music If his music was garbage he would have faded after his death

100 years from now. Most wont no who MJ was. Based on history and how singers are remembered. Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googiling)? You can't. History doesn't care.

kewlschool said:

100 years from now. Most wont no who MJ was. Based on history and how singers are remembered. Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googiling)? You can't. History doesn't care.

I mean, uh, it stands to reason if you're making music in the middle of the 1800s and the ability to record sound hasn't even been invented yet, then yeah, composers and their compositions are of course going to be better remembered than the performers...

[Edited 7/11/19 23:33pm]

kewlschool said:

Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googling)?

How can someone determine who was a successful singer in music before there was a recording industry and the later mass media of radio & television? Who were they popular to? The classical guys played to mainly rich white people mostly in Europe. So that's not music of the general public, nor for places like Africa or South America. Just because somebody is a songwriter or composer doesn't mean they'll be more remembered. The general public do not care who who writes songs or not. I still hear Milli Vanilli played on the radio and their videos on Youtube have millions of views and there's supposed to be a biopic made about them. The only reason anybody is remembered is because they're still promoted. People today know who Jesus Christ is because churches are still around and also on TV. People know ancient characters like Thor & Hercules because there's TV shows, comic books, & movies featuring them. It's A Wonderful Life & Charlie Brown are known by several generations because they are shown on TV every year at Christmas. Why is Elvis Presley more known than Fats Domino, Jackie Wilson, or Pat Boone? Because Elvis is on all kinds of merchandise, his movies are still shown on TV, and he gets talked about in the media more. His records are given more attention than Fats Domino or Little Richard, whose albums are more likely to be out of print. The Monkees got a whole new audience because MTV reran their sitcom in the mid-1980s. Same with A Star Is Born getting remade several times decades apart. Superman & Mickey Mouse have remained really popular, but Krazy Kat & Deputy Dawg, who are not promoted today to the same extent, not so much. Anyway, WHO wrote the history and who was it written for? The president of the USA (Woodrow Wilson) when the movie Birth Of A Nation came out called it a true story.

WhisperingDandelions said:

kewlschool said:

100 years from now. Most wont no who MJ was. Based on history and how singers are remembered. Name a successful singer from the 1800's (without googiling)? You can't. History doesn't care.

I mean, uh, it stands to reason if you're making music in the middle of the 1800s and the ability to record sound hasn't even been invented yet, then yeah, composers and their compositions are of course going to be better remembered than the performers...

Straight savage.

The incredible response to his death, the continual outpouring of love and respect and the future of his legacy greatly exceeds my expectations. I have confidence that there a PLENTY of people out there hoping to make money off of Princes past. That alone will help build his legacy for the future. Trying to guage his legacy by album sales alone is silly, but without silly, these kinds of websites wouldnt exist. So, carry on.

pain said:

kewlschool said:

Here is a famous lyric:

Hooray for Hollywood

Where you're terrific if you're even good

Where anyone at all from Shirley Temple

To Aimee Semple

Is equally understood

Aimee Semple in the 1920's was more popular than Elvis, MJ, and Monroe combined. Yet, nobody knows (for the most part) who she is or even exsisted. Historically speaking singers, sport stars, and actors aren't remembered as much as composers. So, in time-Prince's influence will be greater than MJ's. But in the scheme of all things it doesn't really matter. All you have to do is enjoy Prince's music for yourself.

I will disagree with you because MJ was not only a singer...he was a singer-songwriter-dancer People like to underestimate MJ Even with all the negative press since the begin of this year his streaming numbers are still increasing,his show in las vegas is still selling out etc...they can't even mute or cancel him that is why i don't think Prince's influence will be greater than MJ MJ was not the most prolific songwriter or the best songwriter but he wrote so many good songs who are regarded as classics and he wrote or co-wrote the majority of his songs..we don't need to like him to realize that Prince doesn't even come close to him

[Edited 7/12/19 7:45am]

RODSERLING said:

I really love the albums ATWIAD and Parade...But frankly, half of the tracks are clunkers : tambourine, the ladder, temptation, and most of the Parade tracks were inexploitable for thé radio format. . He should have mixed two albums and releasing just one every two years. . That s the beginning of the explanation of why his legacy is not bigger.

It's called art.

Prince was an artist, he was music, not a popstar.

ForbiddenFruit said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Why?

You still have to ask?

Did not pay attention?

Well:

- Not enough good marketing

- Poor choice of releases

- Poor quality of releases

- Poor timing of releases

.

There may be more but these are some issues.

Mikado said:

RODSERLING said:

I really love the albums ATWIAD and Parade...But frankly, half of the tracks are clunkers : tambourine, the ladder, temptation, and most of the Parade tracks were inexploitable for thé radio format. . He should have mixed two albums and releasing just one every two years. . That s the beginning of the explanation of why his legacy is not bigger.

I don't think that is why it' snot bigger. Actually the Parade almost especially is lauded by musicians as perfection of sorts. Albums like Parade are why his legacy should be bigger and respected. But the problem was not the music, it's timeless, it's the movie that it accompanied.

The Ladder is a favorite on his tours. And don't touch Tambourine, I need the long version.

If Temptation was full band, with the feeling of the rehearsal it would be on a whole different level.

OldFriends4Sale said:

RODSERLING said:

I don't think the movie hurt the Parade promotion at the time. Nobody remembers it nowadays, so that's not why it s catalogue sales are abysmal since 30 years.

How many old albums in general sell a lot decades later? Very few, such as Dark Side Of The Moon. You think a lot of people today are checking for Sports by Huey Lewis & The News, Out Of The Blue by Debbie Gibson, or The Final Countdown by Europe? Those albums were big sellers when they came out. How many are buying old albums by Captain & Tennille, John Denver, Dolly Parton, George Benson, or Harry Belefonte? The general Top 40 listening audience are more likely to buy a greatest hits of the songs they remembered being played on the radio than an album of other songs they don't know. Most of the people who were interested in an artist's album bought it when it first came out. If their children like the music, they can just copy thier parents' album or stream it. Don't have to buy it again.

pain said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

[Edited 7/12/19 7:45am]

Can you prove me the contrary? If you follow the charts,streaming numbers on Spotify,Youtube etc..you'll realize that i am not lying

Prince(r.i.p.) knew his music would last for DECADES after he left this earth. Which is why he left his most best jewels in the vault. He was WAY ahead of his time. Charts, streaming,numbers, will catch up to him when his artistry proves the test of time.

[Edited 7/12/19 15:35pm]

You do realize that all a 'singer-songwriter-dancer' has to do is change one little teeny tiny word in a song that has been written by someone else specifically for said 'singer-songwriter-dancer' and they get credit for being a writer/co-writer of a song. Or they have in a contract that their name is always applied to song writing credit of any song released by a band, such as John Lennon getting co-writing credit for a song that was only written by paul McCartney. So calling someone a songwriter doesn't really have much weight to it. I'm not bashing Michael here, just adding a different perspective to your arguement.

pain said:

kewlschool said:

Here is a famous lyric:

Hooray for Hollywood

Where you're terrific if you're even good

Where anyone at all from Shirley Temple

To Aimee Semple

Is equally understood

Aimee Semple in the 1920's was more popular than Elvis, MJ, and Monroe combined. Yet, nobody knows (for the most part) who she is or even exsisted. Historically speaking singers, sport stars, and actors aren't remembered as much as composers. So, in time-Prince's influence will be greater than MJ's. But in the scheme of all things it doesn't really matter. All you have to do is enjoy Prince's music for yourself.

I will disagree with you because MJ was not only a singer...he was a singer-songwriter-dancer People like to underestimate MJ Even with all the negative press since the begin of this year his streaming numbers are still increasing,his show in las vegas is still selling out etc...they can't even mute or cancel him that is why i don't think Prince's influence will be greater than MJ MJ was not the most prolific songwriter or the best songwriter but he wrote so many good songs who are regarded as classics and he wrote or co-wrote the majority of his songs..we don't need to like him to realize that Prince doesn't even come close to him

RODSERLING said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think that is why it' snot bigger. Actually the Parade almost especially is lauded by musicians as perfection of sorts. Albums like Parade are why his legacy should be bigger and respected. But the problem was not the music, it's timeless, it's the movie that it accompanied.

The Ladder is a favorite on his tours. And don't touch Tambourine, I need the long version.

If Temptation was full band, with the feeling of the rehearsal it would be on a whole different level.

I don't think the movie hurt the Parade promotion at the time. Nobody remembers it nowadays, so that's not why it s catalogue sales are abyssal since 30 years. . ATWIAD was released way too fast when Purple Rain was still on the top 10 album, and there was still some potential hits left unexploited : Darling Nikki and Beautiful Ones, especially in Europe. . Take me with U was a poor choice of single, especially since Prince s voice was only the co lead singer, with somebody who didn't know how to sing. . Tambourine is objectively an average song, unlike Pop Life, Kiss or Raspberry Beret. It didn't deserve a place on the follow up of Purple Rain, and that's why the large audience were disappointed. [Edited 7/12/19 11:44am]

In 1986 if Under the Cherry Moon the movie was a hit, the trajectory of the whole era would have been different. Prince's whole attitude was soured by the movie. The music wasn't the problem.

.

Fans still remember the movie, and a large pecentage love the movie. Most fans also really love Parade. 'Catalogue' sales since 30yrs... whose fault is that? what about sale for Dirty Mind, SOTT, Lovesexy Love Symbol Album Black album etc

.

Even with Purple Rain, a lot of the album era's still depends on how Prince promotes the ERA. For example. The Family album was top quality. But unlike the Time and even Vanity 6 because Prince was too distracted with UTCM he did not get the momentum going for the Family.

.

One of the reason the UTCM movie was not so successful was because Prince is not a movie director. The other reason is he felt he along with Jerome(because of the PR-Morris & Jerome chemistry) could carry the movie. The movie should have had band scenes period. The Family somehow should have been in the movie. With that happening Prince would have not put the project on hold, they most likely would have been in France in Europe performing as well.
.
Yes Purple Rain was still burning up. Computer Blue being such an important piece, with it's 14min version should have been released as a single, along with another B side. 17 Days should have been released with it's extended version (even if released -later) on Computer Blue. Manic Monday should have come out of Prince's camp. It easily could have been Prince & ___ duet, and released even on Apollonia 6, as a single. There can be so much more said about the PR era and the PR tour. No live rendions of God the Love Theme. The dragged out 'piano talking' period. Not pushing songs further like Computer Blue and just lettting go into it.
.

But the problem with ATWIAD was not the album/music, but the no promotion. A video or two was not enough. That level of change and music needed to be showcased.
.
1. No photos of the WB album listening party. The visuals alone would have stirred excitement. The video for Raspberry Beret, winning an awared, set a tone for what could be. The 1985 Birthday show/Masquerade Party... why such a secret? And why no renderings of the songs from the album?
There did not need to be a tour. But many shows like the many off tour shows at First Avenue, like the 1984 Birthday show etc with use of Eddie M, David Suzi Novi & Eric would have sparked further interest in the music/album. Orchestra Hall performances of Condition of the Heart. More videos. Doing so he would have been able to take more time in preparing for Under the Cherry Moon.
Which did not have to be released right away.
.
People are fickle. They struggled with the Black n White of UTCM. It's possible that if the movie was in color, people would have taken to it differently. I love it in Black n White. Kiss, Girls & Boys, AnotherLoverHolenYoHead should have been the first singles. Love or Money had a video shoot, and it wasn't released. It should have been, the song is radio friendly dancible and hot. If he wanted to release more singles/videos Mountains was perfect as well. I think a sex hot little vid for I Wonder U would have been nice. 1986 rendered some high art.

And with that said, 1978-1989 is why Prince the artist is still so highly regarded.


****************
‘It’s the clearest definition of creative freedom I have ever heard. I was 16 and went to see the film Under The Cherry Moon and fell in love. The soundtrack went from rock to computerized blues to jazz to pop and classical. I grew up listening to jazz and blues, to Ella Fitzgerald and Hendrix and, sure, I loved Bach and Mozart. But prince came along and amalgamated them all. The writing was so descriptive and colourful. I used to stay up and listen to the album over and over again on headphones. When everyone else was outside playing and running on a Saturday afternoon, I’d be locked in my bedroom or sat on my porch listening to the LP, and I’d be immediately transported away from all the problems in my neighbourhood to the French Riviera, where the film was set.

Prince uses so many different vocal tones and that was a real beginning for me. His voice would change to accommodate the story, the lyrics – something I choose to do with my music. Any poet, singer, writer wants to live in the moment of each and every song and this is the method by which to do it. He switches Anotherloverholenyohead to a song like Do U Lie (sings), ‘When I lie awake at night in my boudoir’ and automatically the sun comes out, the rays shine through the window, the room becomes light. The track Christopher Tracey’s Parade taught me a new sense of rhythm. Using a computer he created a different heart rhythm. You don’t listen to that song, you fall inside it and become it. He added car sounds – I mean, who did that in those days? And he sings like he never planned a thing, like they play the music and he’s not sure how it’s going to go he just opens his mouth and starts to sing. It doesn’t feel rehearsed but fresh, full of life.

It’s a classic album and lyrically an inspiration. He’s capable of being a very personal writer but he’s also very skilled. When you listen to the music the picture is always clear, the imagination is provoked – that’s the kind of writer I want to be. Like Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, he makes forever music.

The instrumentation is wonderful. He had a computer create the sound but didn’t falsify it by pretending it’s another instrument. He chose to play a computer as itself! His guitar – how he would go from being rock and out there and strong and immediately change the sound to sensitive and loving and soft – that is brilliance. I don’t know if the music was a genuine reflection of a part of his life or a fictional creation, but quite honestly I don’t care because I feel it regardless. I feel blessed just listening to this record.’ -Jill Scott

kingricefan said:

kingricefan said:

pain said:

RJOrion said:

Free2BMe said:

RJOrion said:

Prince vs Michael Jackson

round 356,444

Yep, and it always seems to start with Prince fans bringing up or demeaning Michael in a thread that’s originally supposed to be about Prince’s legacy. Strange isn’t it.
[Edited 7/12/19 22:05pm]

Wolfie87 said:

Free2BMe said:

Yep, and it always seems to start with Prince fans bringing up or demeaning Michael in a thread that’s originally supposed to be about Prince’s legacy. Strange isn’t it. [Edited 7/12/19 22:05pm]

Yeah, and what's your fans reactions when Prince is mentioned in a MJ forum? Not that flattering I would think. Shit, I would imagine you guys putting Madonna in a higher regard on a MJ forum, just to deminish Prince's legacy. I've seen YouTube comments. A sad state of affairs.

OMG U should read the Madonna comments in her thread on here. I have NEVER seen Prince(r.i.p)praised so much on here like they praise her.

Wolfie87 said:

Free2BMe said:

Yep, and it always seems to start with Prince fans bringing up or demeaning Michael in a thread that’s originally supposed to be about Prince’s legacy. Strange isn’t it.
[Edited 7/12/19 22:05pm]

Yeah, and what's your fans reactions when Prince is mentioned in a MJ forum? Not that flattering I would think. Shit, I would imagine you guys putting Madonna in a higher regard on a MJ forum, just to deminish Prince's legacy. I've seen YouTube comments. A sad state of affairs.