Wolfie87 said:

steakfinger said:

Fucking ouch, that hurts you saying that.

[Edited 6/25/19 12:57pm]

just one person's opinion. "classics" aren't that common in anyone's catalogue, how many did anyone have in comparison to the rest of their work? In just about any great artists work there are lots of gems to be found that in my experience have often been as good or better than their best work. Paul Simon had a brilliant album called "songs from the capeman" that was one of the best albums i ever heard, and it was a huge flop along with the huge flop of a play. Elvis had some deadly work that no one seems to be familiar with, all throughout his career, even up to the last 2 years when people say he was so fucked up on drugs that he lost any funtional ability as an artist, simply wasn't true (don't believe me? go listen to Hurt or Way Down). Prince himself was a oneoff, he created solid albums for his spinoff acts in the eighties, sheila e., the time, the family all had songs on them which were as good as most of his own albums. The guy was incredible. Later on in the 90's and beyond, his fans are not nearly as unanimous one way or the other on his music, it's all garbage or some great stuff and opinions are as varied as the people. "gold was his last great album" 'rainbow children is garbage" "rainbow children showed a return to artistic promise'....

[Edited 6/25/19 13:33pm]

I was always oushing for Prince to be like Dylan lyric-wise in his last decade or so. I was aghast at the old man in the club music he was still doing and wanted more Reflection, Dreamer, What Do You Want Me To Do etc. I feel/felt Like A Mac, Shut This Down was beneath him at this juncture in his career. Guess I wasnt realizng he was an overall artists, wher he could do more matire music, Dylanesque music, and then some. Hell, He COULD do Dylan but could Dylan do Housequake (c)?I guess it's testament that Prince could be more versatile in lyics/songwriting than many others. And with originals it rmeinds me of Prince the songwriter. He could have a career just being a David Foster (of funk) with writing milquetoast saccharine songs for others like that one he did for Kenny Rogers, and hell, The Bangles. He could have that pop shit on lock and just made money off of that. Not saying he was equal to some of the great american songwriters , but fuck it, he's upthere in the top 200 or so. Cole Porter did his thing for his time and Prince did his I guess. Woody Allen used a lot of Porters music in his films as appreaciation for the art of his songs, Burtondid the same with Batman (even though music was created FOR Burtons film) and like Allen using Gershwin's music for a whole film (Manhattan), so die Spike Lee (Girl 6). Here's that old shit tho for kicks:

[Edited 6/25/19 14:14pm]

yes, there are some similarities for sure but i never listened to much dylan. he always just came across as phoney to me, oppurunistic as many people who knew him would say. still, a good song is a good song and he had a few I like a lot. The religion thing is interesting, what's more, both he and prince seemed to have those kinds of moments when they were afraid of losing their golden touch somehow. Lovesexy mentioned the "no longer glam" in the program and how his black album would show how funky he could still get, which kinda doesn't make sense because it was more black than his crossover stuff which made him "glam" both men spoke in circles a lot, when ed bradley tried to get dylan to admit who he made the deal with back at his beginning, he'd say nothing more clear than the "chief commander... and this earth and the world we can't see" making him sound like a robert johnson like devil worshipper.

rdhull said:

I was always oushing for Prince to be like Dylan lyric-wise in his last decade or so. I was aghast at the old man in the club music he was still doing and wanted more Reflection, Dreamer, What Do You Want Me To Do etc. I feel/felt Like A Mac, Shut This Down was beneath him at this juncture in his career. Guess I wasnt realizng he was an overall artists, wher he could do more matire music, Dylanesque music, and then some. Hell, He COULD do Dylan but could Dylan do Housequake (c)?I guess it's testament that Prince could be more versatile in lyics/songwriting than many others. And with originals it rmeinds me of Prince the songwriter. He could have a career just being a David Foster (of funk) with writing milquetoast saccharine songs for others like that one he did for Kenny Rogers, and hell, The Bangles. He could have that pop shit on lock and just made money off of that. Not saying he was equal to some of the great american songwriters , but fuck it, he's upthere in the top 200 or so. Cole Porter did his thing for his time and Prince did his I guess. Woody Allen used a lot of Porters music in his films as appreaciation for the art of his songs, Burtondid the same with Batman (even though music was created FOR Burtons film) and like Allen using Gershwin's music for a whole film (Manhattan), so die Spike Lee (Girl 6). Here's that old shit tho for kicks:

Prince/Bob Dylan/Religion (pt II)

part 1,2003

Prince/Bob Dylan/Religion

Even though Prince has always had a religious background-overtone in his lyrics and career, it was always seen as open ended or universal ala Lovesexy. Not a single doctrine. When he supposedly did begin to show a more organized religion side to his music with TRC it created a hailstorm from his fans. Sides were taken, controversy ensued and things would never be the same in purple fandom. Things have still been split down the middle and the after taste of his religious stance still effects how some fans regard his most recent amount of material. I once said the fans views may now be tainted for a myriad of reasons but now the TRC religion has pushed it to its highest levels I feel. This is why TRC has been his most controversial record ever. It was not Darling Nikki and it was not Head…and even though the brilliant Controversy had controversy as it’s title, that was not it either.

It seems that a similar thing had happened with another artist from MN that had a loyal following and lead the way in musical outrage and style. Bob Dylan. A folk hero to electric rock star...when he performed in an electric style ( plugged in if u will) for the first time in concert with “almost” no warning at the Newport Folk Festival, the crowds booed and almost ate him alive. They booed because they didn’t like seeing Bob plugged in. But Bob kept on keepin’ on. However he did return with one last song played on acoustic ( for many reasons none so obvious—it was not giving in, it was slamming it down the throats of the old guard fans who would not let an artist be…well, an artist). He had his plugged in vision and said nothing was going to keep him from doing it and he continued to play. Some say it was "rock ‘n’ roll’s greatest transformation". Just as Princes new direction continues to be at the forefront of his new style. He was daring enough

(or prolific enough may be an excuse for safety) to release his new direction TRC, NEWS, etc. suspect when Prince had a Dirty Mind, separate from his disco r’n’b hits of before, there were some who left.

And just as Dylan has been seen as a spokesman for his troubled generation in the 60’s Prince could be seen as a spokesman for ribald liberation , lewdness, lasciviousness etc in the early eighties. And both would probably deny ( and have) the label put upon them. Dylan said “I don’t write protest songs” and his buddy Joan Baez said “Bobby was never a marcher, I don’t think I ever saw him on a march”. Prince has went on record stating that his songs were less about sex per se’, and more about love. Both Dylan and Prince may have been boolshetten because they did do those things..maybe they were just on the inside that they did not realize that they did write in those terms they were labeled as, as well...many times.

Then Dylan had a spiritual or religious conversion much later in his career. Sound familiar? Uncut writes “Here was the man once hailed as rock’s premier revolutionary force and it’s most valiant voice of freedom, remade as a Conservative religious reactionary”…sound familiar..? Sounds as if Princes supposed or possible conversion to a specific faith could be juxtaposed with Dylan’s situation. The same attitude that happened with his acoustic to plugged in style was happening with his new religious stance. Seems like Dylan had his own “dark night of the soul”. Again in Uncut it is stated “Even the story of his conversion sounded like something out of a sci-fi tale. As Dylan later described it, he was alone in a hotel room in Tucson after a show. Suffering from an unspecified illness he found himself fingering a small crucifix that had been thrown onstage a few nights previously. Then he felt it-nothing less than the power of Jesus, Lord of Lords, King of Kings. Jesus put his hand on me, it was a physical thing. I felt it all over me, my whole body trembled. Th e glory of the lord knocked me down and picked me up”. Biblical imagery has also always been a part of Dylans career.

Prince’s dark night of the soul: in Per Nilsens’ DMSR The First Decade

Although Prince never fully explained to Warner Bros why he wanted to pull the album, a number of factors behind the decision later came to light. A week prior to the planned release date, Prince had taken the Black Album to MN club Ruperts to gauge the audience reaction to the record. At th e club, he met singer-songwriter-poet named Ingrid Chavez. According to her, they started talking and drove out to Paisley Park together. Suddenly Prince left, saying he had a stomache-ache. She later learned that Prince had been nervous and was going through a conscience crisis that made him realise that it would be wrong to release the Black Album. Prince has spoken of a crucial ‘dark night of the soul, when a lot of things happened all in a few hours’ and described a vision of a vast field with the letters G-O-D hovering overhead. ( He would refer to that night, Tuesday December 1st, as Blue Tuesday’ in the Lovesexy tour program. Prince became very concerned about what he perceived to be his responsibility to his fans and younger kids). He went on to do Lovesexy.

Somewhat similar to Dylans tale.

Many things were said to have lead Dylan to that point and time of religion..the death of Elvis (Miles Davis?), a divorce, critical disaster of a personal movie he was in etc…but he came out with Slow Train Coming with songs Goota Serve Somebody, When You Gonna Wake Up, Precious Angel that discussed the “horrors facing so called friends who had not heard the call of Jesus”., “I Believe In You” etc. But the music was as powerful as any of his previous heyday as is TRC. Later he would release the really overt SAVED.

Live Dylans audience were “treated/subjected to between song sermons where Dylan preached to the unconverted and in Tempe AZ poured wrath onto student hecklers saying: ‘You may have your college education to hang on to now, but you’re going to need something very solid when these end times come”…TRC shows were said to include some stern warnings during Anna-stesia...and there were some heckles in some of the shows when the subject of religion came up.

Picketing by aetheist groups put Dylan in a mood to give some of the most “dramatic and committed performances” of his live career. Similar to Prince and the TRC ONA tour…Prince s’ tour was a critical and fan viewed success.

Dylan began mixing pre-gospel classics with new material...seems like Prince may be following suit. It seems hard to serve a saviour and a muse at the same time at least for Dylan…he changed his stance and output after 3 religion based releases…Prince seems to have done it all with TRC and the subsequent ONA tour.

A famed jazz musician who’s name escapes me now had problems touring in Europe due to his Scientology religion. Right or wrong. Prince does not seem to have any problems with is stance on religion and tour promoters, in the staes or abroad.

Bob Geldof is quoted as saying “I didn’t give a F*** about Electric Bob or Folk Bob, and I didn’t know anyone who did. It was the words, the voice, the shirt.”

I don’t care about dirty mind Prince, or religious Prince. It’s the voice, the shirt, and the music for me (and obviously for others as well).

Indeed.

2012 pt 2

The new part for 20 2 is Dylans dismissal of whatever relevancy he and his music represented in that Rolling Stone interview a few months ago. Not only this but the way he tossed off the interviewer and was blase' about the importance of his music. Now I understand that Dylan takes the piss after all these years at being considered the emporer of the substantial in music. After so long it seems like he has to stir up something by falsehoods and changes in attitudes during interviews just out of boredom of them after several decades. I take this as a stance as how Prince played and continues to toy with interviews. I just hope he uses Dylan as a reference point in content material of the next release. Im not really interested in his new daliances unless they are discussing the relevancy of the love...and not the love below (hi 3 stacks). RnRLA is not exactly Lay Lady Lay but...

[Edited 6/25/19 14:14pm]

Its interesting about mentioning being phony as Scorcese just released a doc or concert film doc on Dylans 1975 Rolling Thunder tour wear he wore kabuki make-up as stating ," ... “When somebody's wearing a mask, he's gonna tell you the truth." even though Dylan was " an artist who landed in New York from Minnesota in the late 1950s with an invented name, a phony history and a boatload of tall tales about his background." Regarding Springsteen, almost the same. Kid from NJ was never working class mule as he was always in a band and success came quickly to him, negating the blue collar mythology of 99% of his work. Madonna was probably actually the ho she presented herself as on wx (I kid, I kid). And Prince was not the loverman 24-7 he espoused to be imho (I wont get into the other purple myth-making Prince created (hell, it seems he did take a page out of Dylan's book regarding the mythmaking phony-isms). I giess many artists fin their niche and run with it. I thought Dylan wasnt one of them until recent decade. That phonyism mist use is basically just 'show business' overall though. I just wanted Prince to take that page from him regarding earnest and topical lyricism.

PeteSilas said:

yes, there are some similarities for sure but i never listened to much dylan. he always just came across as phoney to me, oppurunistic as many people who knew him would say. still, a good song is a good song and he had a few I like a lot. The religion thing is interesting, what's more, both he and prince seemed to have those kinds of moments when they were afraid of losing their golden touch somehow. Lovesexy mentioned the "no longer glam" in the program and how his black album would show how funky he could still get, which kinda doesn't make sense because it was more black than his crossover stuff which made him "glam" both men spoke in circles a lot, when ed bradley tried to get dylan to admit who he made the deal with back at his beginning, he'd say nothing more clear than the "chief commander... and this earth and the world we can't see" making him sound like a robert johnson like devil worshipper.

rdhull said:

I was always oushing for Prince to be like Dylan lyric-wise in his last decade or so. I was aghast at the old man in the club music he was still doing and wanted more Reflection, Dreamer, What Do You Want Me To Do etc. I feel/felt Like A Mac, Shut This Down was beneath him at this juncture in his career. Guess I wasnt realizng he was an overall artists, wher he could do more matire music, Dylanesque music, and then some. Hell, He COULD do Dylan but could Dylan do Housequake (c)?I guess it's testament that Prince could be more versatile in lyics/songwriting than many others. And with originals it rmeinds me of Prince the songwriter. He could have a career just being a David Foster (of funk) with writing milquetoast saccharine songs for others like that one he did for Kenny Rogers, and hell, The Bangles. He could have that pop shit on lock and just made money off of that. Not saying he was equal to some of the great american songwriters , but fuck it, he's upthere in the top 200 or so. Cole Porter did his thing for his time and Prince did his I guess. Woody Allen used a lot of Porters music in his films as appreaciation for the art of his songs, Burtondid the same with Batman (even though music was created FOR Burtons film) and like Allen using Gershwin's music for a whole film (Manhattan), so die Spike Lee (Girl 6). Here's that old shit tho for kicks:

Prince/Bob Dylan/Religion (pt II)

part 1,2003

Prince/Bob Dylan/Religion

Even though Prince has always had a religious background-overtone in his lyrics and career, it was always seen as open ended or universal ala Lovesexy. Not a single doctrine. When he supposedly did begin to show a more organized religion side to his music with TRC it created a hailstorm from his fans. Sides were taken, controversy ensued and things would never be the same in purple fandom. Things have still been split down the middle and the after taste of his religious stance still effects how some fans regard his most recent amount of material. I once said the fans views may now be tainted for a myriad of reasons but now the TRC religion has pushed it to its highest levels I feel. This is why TRC has been his most controversial record ever. It was not Darling Nikki and it was not Head…and even though the brilliant Controversy had controversy as it’s title, that was not it either.

It seems that a similar thing had happened with another artist from MN that had a loyal following and lead the way in musical outrage and style. Bob Dylan. A folk hero to electric rock star...when he performed in an electric style ( plugged in if u will) for the first time in concert with “almost” no warning at the Newport Folk Festival, the crowds booed and almost ate him alive. They booed because they didn’t like seeing Bob plugged in. But Bob kept on keepin’ on. However he did return with one last song played on acoustic ( for many reasons none so obvious—it was not giving in, it was slamming it down the throats of the old guard fans who would not let an artist be…well, an artist). He had his plugged in vision and said nothing was going to keep him from doing it and he continued to play. Some say it was "rock ‘n’ roll’s greatest transformation". Just as Princes new direction continues to be at the forefront of his new style. He was daring enough

(or prolific enough may be an excuse for safety) to release his new direction TRC, NEWS, etc. suspect when Prince had a Dirty Mind, separate from his disco r’n’b hits of before, there were some who left.

And just as Dylan has been seen as a spokesman for his troubled generation in the 60’s Prince could be seen as a spokesman for ribald liberation , lewdness, lasciviousness etc in the early eighties. And both would probably deny ( and have) the label put upon them. Dylan said “I don’t write protest songs” and his buddy Joan Baez said “Bobby was never a marcher, I don’t think I ever saw him on a march”. Prince has went on record stating that his songs were less about sex per se’, and more about love. Both Dylan and Prince may have been boolshetten because they did do those things..maybe they were just on the inside that they did not realize that they did write in those terms they were labeled as, as well...many times.

Then Dylan had a spiritual or religious conversion much later in his career. Sound familiar? Uncut writes “Here was the man once hailed as rock’s premier revolutionary force and it’s most valiant voice of freedom, remade as a Conservative religious reactionary”…sound familiar..? Sounds as if Princes supposed or possible conversion to a specific faith could be juxtaposed with Dylan’s situation. The same attitude that happened with his acoustic to plugged in style was happening with his new religious stance. Seems like Dylan had his own “dark night of the soul”. Again in Uncut it is stated “Even the story of his conversion sounded like something out of a sci-fi tale. As Dylan later described it, he was alone in a hotel room in Tucson after a show. Suffering from an unspecified illness he found himself fingering a small crucifix that had been thrown onstage a few nights previously. Then he felt it-nothing less than the power of Jesus, Lord of Lords, King of Kings. Jesus put his hand on me, it was a physical thing. I felt it all over me, my whole body trembled. Th e glory of the lord knocked me down and picked me up”. Biblical imagery has also always been a part of Dylans career.

Prince’s dark night of the soul: in Per Nilsens’ DMSR The First Decade

Although Prince never fully explained to Warner Bros why he wanted to pull the album, a number of factors behind the decision later came to light. A week prior to the planned release date, Prince had taken the Black Album to MN club Ruperts to gauge the audience reaction to the record. At th e club, he met singer-songwriter-poet named Ingrid Chavez. According to her, they started talking and drove out to Paisley Park together. Suddenly Prince left, saying he had a stomache-ache. She later learned that Prince had been nervous and was going through a conscience crisis that made him realise that it would be wrong to release the Black Album. Prince has spoken of a crucial ‘dark night of the soul, when a lot of things happened all in a few hours’ and described a vision of a vast field with the letters G-O-D hovering overhead. ( He would refer to that night, Tuesday December 1st, as Blue Tuesday’ in the Lovesexy tour program. Prince became very concerned about what he perceived to be his responsibility to his fans and younger kids). He went on to do Lovesexy.

Somewhat similar to Dylans tale.

Many things were said to have lead Dylan to that point and time of religion..the death of Elvis (Miles Davis?), a divorce, critical disaster of a personal movie he was in etc…but he came out with Slow Train Coming with songs Goota Serve Somebody, When You Gonna Wake Up, Precious Angel that discussed the “horrors facing so called friends who had not heard the call of Jesus”., “I Believe In You” etc. But the music was as powerful as any of his previous heyday as is TRC. Later he would release the really overt SAVED.

Live Dylans audience were “treated/subjected to between song sermons where Dylan preached to the unconverted and in Tempe AZ poured wrath onto student hecklers saying: ‘You may have your college education to hang on to now, but you’re going to need something very solid when these end times come”…TRC shows were said to include some stern warnings during Anna-stesia...and there were some heckles in some of the shows when the subject of religion came up.

Picketing by aetheist groups put Dylan in a mood to give some of the most “dramatic and committed performances” of his live career. Similar to Prince and the TRC ONA tour…Prince s’ tour was a critical and fan viewed success.

Dylan began mixing pre-gospel classics with new material...seems like Prince may be following suit. It seems hard to serve a saviour and a muse at the same time at least for Dylan…he changed his stance and output after 3 religion based releases…Prince seems to have done it all with TRC and the subsequent ONA tour.

A famed jazz musician who’s name escapes me now had problems touring in Europe due to his Scientology religion. Right or wrong. Prince does not seem to have any problems with is stance on religion and tour promoters, in the staes or abroad.

Bob Geldof is quoted as saying “I didn’t give a F*** about Electric Bob or Folk Bob, and I didn’t know anyone who did. It was the words, the voice, the shirt.”

I don’t care about dirty mind Prince, or religious Prince. It’s the voice, the shirt, and the music for me (and obviously for others as well).

Indeed.

2012 pt 2

The new part for 20 2 is Dylans dismissal of whatever relevancy he and his music represented in that Rolling Stone interview a few months ago. Not only this but the way he tossed off the interviewer and was blase' about the importance of his music. Now I understand that Dylan takes the piss after all these years at being considered the emporer of the substantial in music. After so long it seems like he has to stir up something by falsehoods and changes in attitudes during interviews just out of boredom of them after several decades. I take this as a stance as how Prince played and continues to toy with interviews. I just hope he uses Dylan as a reference point in content material of the next release. Im not really interested in his new daliances unless they are discussing the relevancy of the love...and not the love below (hi 3 stacks). RnRLA is not exactly Lay Lady Lay but...

[Edited 6/25/19 14:14pm]

it is part of the business but the theory is that it should have some kind of strong relation to the truth, springsteen said in his bio and his broadway show that he never worked a real job of five days a week ("I don't like it!"). i"m sure he worked damned hard and i'm sure he worked five consecutive days many times but he made his point. However, he had close contact to people who did have "the working life" and growing up seeing his dad, he knew he wanted nothing to do with getting any closer to it. Prince, i don't know about all the women, that's always puzzled me because women are quite demanding of your time when they get into your life, I know he was prince and could shape a lot of that but it's not an easy thing to control. I hear dylan wore the makeup during a phase when he was into heroin, either way, kinda wierd. out of all of them, he seemed to be the most calculating, cunning and have the least relationship to who he really was, i did watch and buy the scorcese docu and he does seem to be a lot different than the image he put out. No denying his impact though, still felt today like the other greats and inspite of what i think about him his legacy is there.

rdhull said:

Its interesting about mentioning being phony as Scorcese just released a doc or concert film doc on Dylans 1975 Rolling Thunder tour wear he wore kabuki make-up as stating ," ... “When somebody's wearing a mask, he's gonna tell you the truth." even though Dylan was " an artist who landed in New York from Minnesota in the late 1950s with an invented name, a phony history and a boatload of tall tales about his background." Regarding Springsteen, almost the same. Kid from NJ was never working class mule as he was always in a band and success came quickly to him, negating the blue collar mythology of 99% of his work. Madonna was probably actually the ho she presented herself as on wx (I kid, I kid). And Prince was not the loverman 24-7 he espoused to be imho (I wont get into the other purple myth-making Prince created (hell, it seems he did take a page out of Dylan's book regarding the mythmaking phony-isms). I giess many artists fin their niche and run with it. I thought Dylan wasnt one of them until recent decade. That phonyism mist use is basically just 'show business' overall though. I just wanted Prince to take that page from him regarding earnest and topical lyricism.

PeteSilas said:

yes, there are some similarities for sure but i never listened to much dylan. he always just came across as phoney to me, oppurunistic as many people who knew him would say. still, a good song is a good song and he had a few I like a lot. The religion thing is interesting, what's more, both he and prince seemed to have those kinds of moments when they were afraid of losing their golden touch somehow. Lovesexy mentioned the "no longer glam" in the program and how his black album would show how funky he could still get, which kinda doesn't make sense because it was more black than his crossover stuff which made him "glam" both men spoke in circles a lot, when ed bradley tried to get dylan to admit who he made the deal with back at his beginning, he'd say nothing more clear than the "chief commander... and this earth and the world we can't see" making him sound like a robert johnson like devil worshipper.

I want to edit that the phonyism for Prince was the Uptown/Paisley Park manifesto (he never believed in all that), not the sex machine Valantino mystique.

PeteSilas said:

it is part of the business but the theory is that it should have some kind of strong relation to the truth, springsteen said in his bio and his broadway show that he never worked a real job of five days a week ("I don't like it!"). i"m sure he worked damned hard and i'm sure he worked five consecutive days many times but he made his point. However, he had close contact to people who did have "the working life" and growing up seeing his dad, he knew he wanted nothing to do with getting any closer to it. Prince, i don't know about all the women, that's always puzzled me because women are quite demanding of your time when they get into your life, I know he was prince and could shape a lot of that but it's not an easy thing to control. I hear dylan wore the makeup during a phase when he was into heroin, either way, kinda wierd. out of all of them, he seemed to be the most calculating, cunning and have the least relationship to who he really was, i did watch and buy the scorcese docu and he does seem to be a lot different than the image he put out. No denying his impact though, still felt today like the other greats and inspite of what i think about him his legacy is there.

rdhull said:

Its interesting about mentioning being phony as Scorcese just released a doc or concert film doc on Dylans 1975 Rolling Thunder tour wear he wore kabuki make-up as stating ," ... “When somebody's wearing a mask, he's gonna tell you the truth." even though Dylan was " an artist who landed in New York from Minnesota in the late 1950s with an invented name, a phony history and a boatload of tall tales about his background." Regarding Springsteen, almost the same. Kid from NJ was never working class mule as he was always in a band and success came quickly to him, negating the blue collar mythology of 99% of his work. Madonna was probably actually the ho she presented herself as on wx (I kid, I kid). And Prince was not the loverman 24-7 he espoused to be imho (I wont get into the other purple myth-making Prince created (hell, it seems he did take a page out of Dylan's book regarding the mythmaking phony-isms). I giess many artists fin their niche and run with it. I thought Dylan wasnt one of them until recent decade. That phonyism mist use is basically just 'show business' overall though. I just wanted Prince to take that page from him regarding earnest and topical lyricism.

[Edited 6/25/19 16:06pm]

thefrog said:

rdhull said:

jdcxc said:

thefrog said:

jdcxc said:

Oh pleeze...Beatles: "My love don't give me presents. I know that she's no peasant" Some of the Beatles lyrics are plain stupid and simple. And McCartney/Harrison have some of the weakest solo music and lazy bad songwriting ever released by “superstars.” Prince was a brilliant SONGWRITER and a sometime great lyricist.

With the greatest of respect, while I adore Prince (why would I be writing here otherwise), there are countless trite lyrics by Prince that one could point to.

sure are, i personally blame that on his penchant for not revising and for moving so fast all the time.

thefrog said:

Lyricist and songwriter are very different. For me he had many glimpses of lyrical brilliance (much as I dislike LRC, probably because of its production and its over saturation, the first line is lyrical genius IMO), but (again for me) his more pervasive gift in a classic "pop song" context was melody and hooks, not lyrics.

what did it mean? i've been playing, listening to it for years, never quite sure of the sexual meaning of it, was the woman putting her pussy in a horizontal position? kinda vague.

i think he did, it was against the values he grew up with and he knew it but that is the nature of youth, to overthrow the old, howard bloom says something about the god voice prince used in concert as prince's father and how when prince was changing over the years his "father won" meaning the father/god voice in him won. I don't necessarily believe that, he came back around in his last albums and he never was a prude in his music. I doubt he ever stopped chasing women, maybe with all the drugs and stuff he may not have been as interested in sex, i have no clue, but he never stopped being a ladies man.

rdhull said:

I want to edit that the phonyism for Prince was the Uptown/Paisley Park manifesto (he never believed in all that), not the sex machine Valantino mystique.

PeteSilas said:

it is part of the business but the theory is that it should have some kind of strong relation to the truth, springsteen said in his bio and his broadway show that he never worked a real job of five days a week ("I don't like it!"). i"m sure he worked damned hard and i'm sure he worked five consecutive days many times but he made his point. However, he had close contact to people who did have "the working life" and growing up seeing his dad, he knew he wanted nothing to do with getting any closer to it. Prince, i don't know about all the women, that's always puzzled me because women are quite demanding of your time when they get into your life, I know he was prince and could shape a lot of that but it's not an easy thing to control. I hear dylan wore the makeup during a phase when he was into heroin, either way, kinda wierd. out of all of them, he seemed to be the most calculating, cunning and have the least relationship to who he really was, i did watch and buy the scorcese docu and he does seem to be a lot different than the image he put out. No denying his impact though, still felt today like the other greats and inspite of what i think about him his legacy is there.

[Edited 6/25/19 16:06pm]

PeteSilas said:

thefrog said:

PeteSilas said:

what did it mean? i've been playing, listening to it for years, never quite sure of the sexual meaning of it, was the woman putting her pussy in a horizontal position? kinda vague.

Ha. This is where I show my complete naivety, like a tool. I took it as a simple image, which is what I think prince did best a lot of the time lyrically (like every snowflake in an avalanche: every individual disclaims responsibility). Literally as in the car is parked sideways outside as though it's ready to leave at any time. No long term intentions. Perfect in its simplicity. Maybe there is a sexual meaning that I'm missing. Probably there is and I am truly a tool. But, if there is, I don't mind having missed it. I like the idea of a broken heart looking for answers in that simplistic way.

don't worry, i feel the same way, i had no idea little red corvette meant a climax until i was about 20 and even then i had to hear "double entendre" a million times.

I think Prince is one of the greatest guitarists, all-around instrumentalists, vocalists, composers and arrangers.

But I do not think he's one of the best lyricists. He certainly had some great lyrics, but I think they're in the minority. Most of his lyrics were simple good, not great. And some were downright awful.

I do love a good "what does this mean?" Prince lyrical analysis thread. Hmmm, let's see, car analogies left and right, walls and halls of etcetera, doin' you after school like some homework, shooting guns in your direction, "funking" until the dawn. Obviously all about his stamp collection, clearly.

Love Dylan...just can't undrestand what the hell he says half the time!! - better to read his lyrics than listen to him!

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Love Dylan...just can't undrestand what the hell he says half the time!! - better to read his lyrics than listen to him!

usually, i give anyone who has a rep a good chance and if they catch me they catch me, led zep, the beatles, the stones, elvis, buddy holly, on and on, all music that came before my youth and interest in music but music where i found enough good in the first few I listened to to listen to more. Dylan never had that effect on me, there are a few of his songs I like a lot but i never understood the worship for him. i've never listened to enough to say. I love some of Frank Zappas work too (an artist about as prolific as Prince) but much of it leaves me cold.

As a composer, Prince stands right near the top of all popular music. As a lyricist, he's wildly inconsistent. However, he has a handful of lyrics that rank with the best of the best. Some that come to mind: Little Red Corvette, When You Were Mine, ICNTTPOYM, Yo Mister, Ballad of Dorothy Parker. One thing I'm noticing about my list and some of his other best lyrics is that they are often songs with a semblance of story to them. I think that was a strength of his. I would bet Dylan loves the lyrics to Little Red Corvette. Is Prince Bob Dylan? No. Is Bob Dylan Prince? No. Are they both two of the greatest songwriters? Unquestionably.

It's all opinion, and yes, to me personally, he was the greatest lyricist/songwriter.

if he never composed a tune after Little Red Corvette I'd have been a fan forever, few songs in the rock era are in that league in my mind, Elvis' Suspicious Minds is another but not too many quite that good, lots of great tunes but not quite like those, just when you thought the song had peaked, they took it to another level.

So you'd say Prince is/was a better lyricist than Smokey Robinson and a better songwriter than Stevie Wonder? Big claims.

jaawwnn said:

So you'd say Prince is/was a better lyricist than Smokey Robinson and a better songwriter than Stevie Wonder? Big claims.

not too many in smokey's league as a lyricist, as a hookmaker, a musicmaker, not too many in prince's league. the mid-eighties era is full of potential hits by he and the associates he wrote for. On the originals, even some of the tepid tunes like sex shooter come to life with his voice on them and the manic monday version is superior to the bangles. the man was simply overflowing with music, so, lyrics? maybe not, music? yes. Pound for pound he was in the same league as anyone ever.

jaawwnn said:

Pound for pound i of course agree, I'm not off posting on smokey robinson dot org. But the premise of this thread isnt was Prince the best at getting the most out of an LM-1 or at making as vapid an idea as "I'm a Sex Shooter" sound incredibly exciting.

smokey was great, what dyland called america's greatest living poet as well as a great singer and a great composer, he wasn't as prolific as Prince and he couldn't really play a single instrument. Apples and oranges of course but for lyrics we know smokey's great and prince isn't in that league, or chuck berry's or dylan's or many others, but going the other way round? dude left just about anyone in the dust when it came to hooks, productions, side projects etc..,

Empress said:

Bob Dylan is the greatest lyricist of our time. No question about it. After over 40 years of listening to his music, im still in awe of his beautiful, profound lyrics.

gotta admit, because of this thread, i went and searched youtube and was surprised at the number of tunes I was actually familiar with even if i didn't know the title and how many had caught my ear at some point.

Empress said: