independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Fri 22nd Nov 2019 5:04pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince - was he the greatest lyricist / songwriter?- its beyond all comprehension.
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 3 123>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 06/24/19 7:10am

PURPLEIZED3121

Prince - was he the greatest lyricist / songwriter?- its beyond all comprehension.

Apologies - i am sure this has been debated to death BUT it just popped into my head & so I wanted to share!

I just can't get my head around this. When you sit back & compare the sheer volume & the different styles of song writing he came up with compared to the truly great song writers of all time. The greatest song writers wrote mostly in one style. This older Rolling Stone list puts P in at 18 with Bob Dylan at number 1 !

https://www.rollingstone....ongwriters

Appreciate its all a matter of opinion BUT lets take the subject of Love..seriously how many ways did he describe every aspect of love from the sensual to the sexual at every tempo & in every style.

Again, there's not a single writer on that incredible list that I would put ahead of Prince & that includes Lennon & McCartney.

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 06/24/19 7:19am

Genesia

avatar

You need to broaden your horizons.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 06/24/19 7:24am

Empress

Genesia said:

You need to broaden your horizons.

I have to agree with Genesia on this.

While I also agree that Prince was a great songwriter with many different styles and hundreds of amazing songs, I would never in a million years put him ahead of the great Bob Dylan. I will include Leonard Cohen as well.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 06/24/19 8:27am

PURPLEIZED3121

Empress said:

Genesia said:

You need to broaden your horizons.

I have to agree with Genesia on this.

While I also agree that Prince was a great songwriter with many different styles and hundreds of amazing songs, I would never in a million years put him ahead of the great Bob Dylan. I will include Leonard Cohen as well.

All opinions valid, will respectfully disagree.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 06/24/19 8:56am

jaawwnn

avatar

If I'm workin' at my jobba
I'm the victim, you're the robba

Doesn't help.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 06/24/19 9:15am

Genesia

avatar

lol

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 06/24/19 9:36am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Genesia said:

You need to broaden your horizons.


It seems trollish for the OP to make a post that Prince was the all-time greatest lyricist, especially above people like Dylan, Lennon & McCartney, and the numerous songwriters behind famous singer's music. It's ignorance, which is defined as lack of knowledge (opposed to just being stupid).

So I'd agree - listen to more music, read my lyric sheets, and take off your purple tinted glasses. There's a world of music out there before, during, and after Prince.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 06/24/19 10:22am

Genesia

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

Genesia said:

You need to broaden your horizons.


It seems trollish for the OP to make a post that Prince was the all-time greatest lyricist, especially above people like Dylan, Lennon & McCartney, and the numerous songwriters behind famous singer's music. It's ignorance, which is defined as lack of knowledge (opposed to just being stupid).

So I'd agree - listen to more music, read my lyric sheets, and take off your purple tinted glasses. There's a world of music out there before, during, and after Prince.


When John Lennon says he and Paul McCartney were trying to be "the British King and Goffen," and Bob Dylan says he considers Hank Williams to be the best songwriter of all time, they've probably earned their spots on the list.

I suspect the OP's knowledge of music is about as deep as a kiddie pool.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 06/24/19 10:28am

djdaffy1227

avatar

Prince isn't even in the songwriters Hall of Fame. (Now THAT is outrageous!!)

Making love and music are the only things worth fighting for.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 06/24/19 11:31am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Genesia said:

When John Lennon says he and Paul McCartney were trying to be "the British King and Goffen," and Bob Dylan says he considers Hank Williams to be the best songwriter of all time, they've probably earned their spots on the list.

I suspect the OP's knowledge of music is about as deep as a kiddie pool.


Country music, and blues, has great stories behind it all. They wrote about what they knew, as did Prince. To listen to Gershwin or Rodgers and Hammerstein turn a phrase and create a beautiful melody would do anyone good.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 06/24/19 11:46am

RodeoSchro

avatar

He's my FAVORITE songwriter, which is all I really need to know.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 06/24/19 11:55am

Genesia

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

Genesia said:

When John Lennon says he and Paul McCartney were trying to be "the British King and Goffen," and Bob Dylan says he considers Hank Williams to be the best songwriter of all time, they've probably earned their spots on the list.

I suspect the OP's knowledge of music is about as deep as a kiddie pool.


Country music, and blues, has great stories behind it all. They wrote about what they knew, as did Prince. To listen to Gershwin or Rodgers and Hammerstein turn a phrase and create a beautiful melody would do anyone good.


That's another thing: this list only included writers of popular music. It completely ignored writers like the ones you mention. (I guess they're too "old.") But think about the impact of people like Henry Mancini, Marvin Hamlisch, the Gershwins, and Rodgers and Hammerstein/Hart had on Broadway and film (not to mention popular music). Hamlisch and Rodgers are the only two people ever to have won Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony awards, PLUS the Pulitzer Prize.

Prince is definitely listed among the greats - and deservedly so. But there are other greats who weren't even mentioned.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 06/24/19 2:27pm

Wolfie87

jaawwnn said:

If I'm workin' at my jobba
I'm the victim, you're the robba

Doesn't help.



"If I was your one and only friend
Would you run to me if somebody hurt you even if that somebody was me, yeah"

Does help however. Sooooo, who did it better from 1980-1989 in contemporary pop then?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 06/24/19 4:16pm

BartVanHemelen

avatar

Wolfie87 said:

Sooooo, who did it better from 1980-1989 in contemporary pop then?

.

You're moving the goalposts, which basically confirms that you agree that the original claim is bunk.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 06/24/19 6:28pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

Not another GOAT thread...

Image result for goat gif

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 06/24/19 7:42pm

rdhull

avatar

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Apologies - i am sure this has been debated to death BUT it just popped into my head & so I wanted to share!

I just can't get my head around this. When you sit back & compare the sheer volume & the different styles of song writing he came up with compared to the truly great song writers of all time. The greatest song writers wrote mostly in one style. This older Rolling Stone list puts P in at 18 with Bob Dylan at number 1 !

https://www.rollingstone....ongwriters

Appreciate its all a matter of opinion BUT lets take the subject of Love..seriously how many ways did he describe every aspect of love from the sensual to the sexual at every tempo & in every style.

Again, there's not a single writer on that incredible list that I would put ahead of Prince & that includes Lennon & McCartney.

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

log off

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 06/24/19 7:49pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Genesia said:

That's another thing: this list only included writers of popular music. It completely ignored writers like the ones you mention. (I guess they're too "old.") But think about the impact of people like Henry Mancini, Marvin Hamlisch, the Gershwins, and Rodgers and Hammerstein/Hart had on Broadway and film (not to mention popular music). Hamlisch and Rodgers are the only two people ever to have won Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony awards, PLUS the Pulitzer Prize.

Prince is definitely listed among the greats - and deservedly so. But there are other greats who weren't even mentioned.


And it stands to be mentioned that Broadway-type music and crooner music was pop music in its day. People think of pop as some dancy radio stuff, but shit - they only had radio back then, and they played everything popular, and a bit not-yet-popular. I'd also suggest Sondheim. The stories in his songs are indispensable.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 06/24/19 9:15pm

PeteSilas

i wouldn't count the rolling stones' type of journalism too much, they always put the usual guys on top in everything. I love a lot of music outside of Prince but I also am indifferent to a lot of guys like Dylan who have a rep. Dylan had a few songs I liked a lot, the one I liked the most, all along the watchtower, was redone better by hendrix. Joni Mitchell recently derided bob ferociously, saying he'd created a character that wasn't real and that bob had said something to her like "i haven't really written a song in years" meaning he was just rehashing his devices or something. If he said that, and I could believe it, then how do I put him above a guy who I consider was always trying? Of course Prince is just one of many great writers, artists and composers throughout time, he's unique in many ways. A dylan wasn't even a great guitarist (as joni mitchell said) and I don't know how much of the arranging he did in his studio/band work, I've always meant to get around to listening to more dylan but he's always c ome across as joni said, a character. Of course they all play a role to a degree but when you're from bumfuck minnesota and you talk like you're from oklahoma, it's kinda transparent. Springsteen, one of my faves does that bullshit too with the fake twang when he's from jersey but i still like so much of what he's done.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 06/25/19 3:37am

jaawwnn

avatar

Wolfie87 said:

jaawwnn said:

If I'm workin' at my jobba
I'm the victim, you're the robba

Doesn't help.

"If I was your one and only friend Would you run to me if somebody hurt you even if that somebody was me, yeah" Does help however. Sooooo, who did it better from 1980-1989 in contemporary pop then?

lol

I was kidding, ranking songwriters is for chumps. Prince wrote lots of great phrases and occasionally some fantastic lyrics but i'd argue that his strength was in his ability to seamlessly mix the melody, lyrics, the rhythms and the performance all together. His lyrics rarely stand up on their own, which is fine by me.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 06/25/19 5:13am

jdcxc

jaawwnn said:

If I'm workin' at my jobba
I'm the victim, you're the robba

Doesn't help.



Oh pleeze...Beatles: "My love don't give me presents. I know that she's no peasant"

Some of the Beatles lyrics are plain stupid and simple. And McCartney/Harrison have some of the weakest solo music and lazy bad songwriting ever released by “superstars.”

Prince was a brilliant SONGWRITER and a sometime great lyricist.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 06/25/19 5:15am

jdcxc

jaawwnn said:



Wolfie87 said:


jaawwnn said:

If I'm workin' at my jobba
I'm the victim, you're the robba

Doesn't help.



"If I was your one and only friend Would you run to me if somebody hurt you even if that somebody was me, yeah" Does help however. Sooooo, who did it better from 1980-1989 in contemporary pop then?

lol

I was kidding, ranking songwriters is for chumps. Prince wrote lots of great phrases and occasionally some fantastic lyrics but i'd argue that his strength was in his ability to seamlessly mix the melody, lyrics, the rhythms and the performance all together. His lyrics rarely stand up on their own, which is fine by me.



OK...better. Lol
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 06/25/19 5:54am

PURPLEIZED3121

rdhull said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Apologies - i am sure this has been debated to death BUT it just popped into my head & so I wanted to share!

I just can't get my head around this. When you sit back & compare the sheer volume & the different styles of song writing he came up with compared to the truly great song writers of all time. The greatest song writers wrote mostly in one style. This older Rolling Stone list puts P in at 18 with Bob Dylan at number 1 !

https://www.rollingstone....ongwriters

Appreciate its all a matter of opinion BUT lets take the subject of Love..seriously how many ways did he describe every aspect of love from the sensual to the sexual at every tempo & in every style.

Again, there's not a single writer on that incredible list that I would put ahead of Prince & that includes Lennon & McCartney.

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

log off

bog off!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 06/25/19 6:01am

PURPLEIZED3121

TrivialPursuit said:

Genesia said:

You need to broaden your horizons.


It seems trollish for the OP to make a post that Prince was the all-time greatest lyricist, especially above people like Dylan, Lennon & McCartney, and the numerous songwriters behind famous singer's music. It's ignorance, which is defined as lack of knowledge (opposed to just being stupid).

So I'd agree - listen to more music, read my lyric sheets, and take off your purple tinted glasses. There's a world of music out there before, during, and after Prince.

wow, how incredibly patronising ! FYI I usually go to c 4 gigs per month exploring newer & established artists mostly in smaller venues - often try to chat to them post gig too. Likewise my music collection is huge as I am sure yours is too, also having seen PRINCE c40+ times live I think I am relatively well placed to have a highly informed opinion on the matter...hence the point of threat to open up thye debate on a Prince site that is sorely lacking in well informed content & threads!

Noted that BVH has been posting some incredibly good threads recently & is really putting in the effort.

Enjoy the rest of your day!!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 06/25/19 6:03am

PURPLEIZED3121

purplethunder3121 said:

Not another GOAT thread...

Image result for goat gif

well errrr why bother contibuting to a thread you have no interest in?..what was the last thread you started that was of any interest?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 06/25/19 6:27am

dodger

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

rdhull said:

log off

bog off!

gett off surely would have been better

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 06/25/19 9:42am

Robbajobba

avatar

I don't know if there's another songwriter (lyricist) with such a huge chasm between their best and worst work. I mean, on the one hand - WDC. On the other - yeah, those Lemon Crush lyrics...

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 06/25/19 10:07am

steakfinger

Prince isn't even close to either.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 06/25/19 10:13am

steakfinger

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Apologies - i am sure this has been debated to death BUT it just popped into my head & so I wanted to share!

I just can't get my head around this. When you sit back & compare the sheer volume & the different styles of song writing he came up with compared to the truly great song writers of all time. The greatest song writers wrote mostly in one style. This older Rolling Stone list puts P in at 18 with Bob Dylan at number 1 !

https://www.rollingstone....ongwriters

Appreciate its all a matter of opinion BUT lets take the subject of Love..seriously how many ways did he describe every aspect of love from the sensual to the sexual at every tempo & in every style.

Again, there's not a single writer on that incredible list that I would put ahead of Prince & that includes Lennon & McCartney.

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

That's because Bob Dylan is closer to deserving number 1 than Prince. Easy. Quantity is not quality. Not by a long shot. That argument reminds me of Garth Marenghi from Garth Marenghi's Darkplace when he said he's the only author who has written more books than he's read. It's comedy, but the point is the same. If you look at all the Prince songs that are widely agreed to be classics the list isn't very long.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 06/25/19 12:14pm

PeteSilas

that's subjective and it's your opinion, dylan never spoke to or for me and I never was crazy about many of his tunes, hurricane, all along the watchtower, if he had a catalogue full of those then I'd agree, I've never heard enough good stuff to make me want to hear more like i do with other artists. I can think of many who I personally like more, the stones, the beatles, paul simon etc.., etc..,

steakfinger said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Apologies - i am sure this has been debated to death BUT it just popped into my head & so I wanted to share!

I just can't get my head around this. When you sit back & compare the sheer volume & the different styles of song writing he came up with compared to the truly great song writers of all time. The greatest song writers wrote mostly in one style. This older Rolling Stone list puts P in at 18 with Bob Dylan at number 1 !

https://www.rollingstone....ongwriters

Appreciate its all a matter of opinion BUT lets take the subject of Love..seriously how many ways did he describe every aspect of love from the sensual to the sexual at every tempo & in every style.

Again, there's not a single writer on that incredible list that I would put ahead of Prince & that includes Lennon & McCartney.

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

[Edited 6/24/19 7:11am]

That's because Bob Dylan is closer to deserving number 1 than Prince. Easy. Quantity is not quality. Not by a long shot. That argument reminds me of Garth Marenghi from Garth Marenghi's Darkplace when he said he's the only author who has written more books than he's read. It's comedy, but the point is the same. If you look at all the Prince songs that are widely agreed to be classics the list isn't very long.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 06/25/19 12:54pm

Wolfie87

steakfinger said:



If you look at all the Prince songs that are widely agreed to be classics the list isn't very long.



Fucking ouch, that hurts you saying that.
[Edited 6/25/19 12:57pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 3 123>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince - was he the greatest lyricist / songwriter?- its beyond all comprehension.