Fenwick said:

I'm thrilled for this release and am excited about tracks coming out of the vault. But I also think this is haphazardly done. Why these particular 15 tracks? What about the Mavis Staples tracks? The boat loads of other Time tracks? Graffiti Bridge? There is a ten CD box set of "originals" worthy material that could be cobbled together. But we got these 15. It's fantastic that we got them, but it's also undeniably arbitrary.

So to me, the easiest way to alleviate the confusion is to start at the beginning and release it all. 5.1 mixes of the albums with pertinent outtakes, 12" mixes, soundboard concerts etc..... Not only do I think that's a "reasonable" expectation, I also think it's the only surefire way to please just about everyone.

Well, I have to think about these statements coming from another hardcore fan like myself. See, we know what's there. We know there could be other songs that would be "better." These 15 tracks were chosen by Jay Z, as part of the deal that Tidal gets this one release and the estate can move Tidal-free forward, fussing over rights and such.

The general public knows "Jungle Love," or "Manic Monday," "Nothing Compares 2 U", probably "Sex Shooter," definitely "The Glamorous Life," possibly "Gigolos Get Lonely Too." That's a selling point. One-third of the record is things people know. These people who know only those songs don't know about "The Line," "All My Dreams," "God Is Alive," "Old Friends 4 Sale", "Rebirth of the Flesh," or any other we - as fans - could name. Of course, there are box sets that could be released eternally. But you have to start somewhere. It's about perspective. We're hardcore fans. We're tainted in that regard. Anything that is a deep cut is going to seem "arbitrary." "Why these?"

Yes, starting at the beginning is a comfortable idea, but it's not realistic, not from a business standpoint. The Prince fan thinks they're the only fans who exist (we've all thought that way, admit it) and therefore we know the best way. But we aren't the estate. We're not running the business of curating particular songs; an impossible task really because we only know what we know, which could be only 10% or 20% of what is there. It's a pipe dream to start injecting ideas of 5.1 mixes, etc. The remixes and soundboard concerts are reasonable, and we may get that. I think Piano and a Microphone may be a precursor to that. I believe they are testing the water to gauge as a response because it could certainly be a series over time. It could lead to soundboard concerts.

I don't see confusion other than folks with their ideas on how things should come out; then again it's Prince fans who are confused "Well why did they release this instead of that?" Releasing five versions of "Soft and Wet" or every take of "Just As Long As We're Together" isn't necessarily something the general public gives two shits about. The estate is going to survive off more than the base's fanaticism if they expect to be around in a decade.

TrivialPursuit said:

These pseudo-crusades for what he would have wanted are irrelevant. We don't know what he wanted. But of course every Prince fan is the biggest and best Prince fan. So clearly, the Org is the place to go to dispel the knowledge by said fan.

It seems, to many fans, the estate can't do one thing right. Everything is a misstep, everything is wrong, shoulda been this, coulda been that. It's just incredibly ungrateful. Prince fans are the worst types of fans - they're unappreciative.

• Fans balked at 4Ever. It's a cash grab. "Moonbeam Levels" was from a tape.
• Paisley Park opened the same year he did - too soon, disrespectful.
• Purple Rain was flattened dynamically, bad remaster, problem with this or that.
• Originals - he wouldn't have wanted this.
• Rave Ultimate - cash grab, it's garbage
• Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth - pointless
• All albums on streaming platforms - he hated that
• Videos on YouTube, etc. - he didn't like YouTube

...and that's the short list of bitching. Yeah well, he didn't like the internet either, apparently, but he was sure to fuck on it.

It's just constant bitching. Hell, if I ran the estate, I'd pay of the bill, pay for storage, and lock the whole place up for a decade; give 'em something to complain about. A decent amount - not all - of Prince fans need a motherfucking time out. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Otherwise, sit yo ass down and stop pissing on someone else's parade.

Your last statement says a lot...there is no Parade. Name one release that has fans dancing in the streets...name one release that has sold so much that the estate has millions to burn? Nothing. A cd holds 79:57 of muisc, and Piano cd was 34 minutes... giving value to your customer base means nothing to them...sure some fans are so negative that nothing will please them...but a Rave reissue? Really? Even though I am one of the few that would truly enjoy a reissue of New Power Soul, it would be last on my list...just like Rave would have been on the backburner

Yes, Prince is a difficult artist to deal with in regards to his legacy, but the cast of STOOGES they have on this is comical. NOBODY with a Passion for Prince's music and legacy are involved. Londell McMuffin anyone? Troy Carter? Troy wouldn't know the difference between Crystal Ball and Housequake if you paid him.

Sure, it is not total chaos, but things could be so much better with at least one real fan involved. I honestly can't stand that guy Kares, but I'd trust him over the village idiots in charge now...probably 100 on this site I would put in charge instead...myself included.

Positive? PR Deluxe was great for what it was, but should have been better

Originals is great, but again, they do whatever they can do to keep the disc under 70 minutes, but at least got to 60 this time.

[Edited 6/25/19 12:07pm]

stillwaiting said:

Positive? PR Deluxe was great for what it was, but should have been better

Originals is great, but again, they do whatever they can do to keep the disc under 70 minutes, but at least got to 60 this time.

See, that was a good argument until we hit those two sentences. The "BUT" means "ignore everything I just said, here's what I really think."

I am going to speak on a larger scale here, so nothing is directed at you personally because we're talking about the music, not each other:

Regarding the CD part: No one's obligated to fill up a CD because it holds 80 minutes. How long was HITnRUNs? Or anything since 1994 or so? 60 minutes or so is enough for a 2-LP set. Anymore would stretch to a 3-LP set, which is more production costs on every level and would raise the end price for us to $49.98 or so. These albums are around 63 minutes for a good reason. You, and maybe even I, may be willing to to pay. But they're trying to appeal to a larger audience than just the hardcore base.

While i partially agree with the PAAM 35-minute argument, the fact is they released something we've all loved and wanted - as I stated probably as a gauge for future releases - and we had it officially. They've could've not released anything at all. And no one is forcing any of us to buy anything. I've not purchased the three purple LP reissues, nor the Ultimate Rave set. I don't need them again.

But to say PR deluxe could have been better... just comes across as incredibly ungrateful. I think, overall and directed at no one specific, that is what irks me about community (common-unity - which is almost an oxymoron among Prince fans). The lack of gratitude in the Prince community is sometimes stiffling. Nothing is every good enough, everyone has a better idea, and it always feels like someone is just negative Nancy (whoever it may be at that moment).

TrivialPursuit said:

stillwaiting said:

Positive? PR Deluxe was great for what it was, but should have been better

Originals is great, but again, they do whatever they can do to keep the disc under 70 minutes, but at least got to 60 this time.

See, that was a good argument until we hit those two sentences. The "BUT" means "ignore everything I just said, here's what I really think."

But to say PR deluxe could have been better... just comes across as incredibly ungrateful. I think, overall and directed at no one specific, that is what irks me about community (common-unity - which is almost an oxymoron among Prince fans). The lack of gratitude in the Prince community is sometimes stiffling. Nothing is every good enough, everyone has a better idea, and it always feels like someone is just negative Nancy (whoever it may be at that moment).

That's fine, I have no problem understanding someone's thought process. We are different, and you seem to be able to easily not be affected...that's great...I like your thought process. I am not a perfectoinist, but the warble in Erotic City is a flaw that could have been fixed. And some of the mixes were likely available in better quality, and the remaster is not horrible, but Josh Welton? Really?

And yes, as a whole, me included, should probably be more thankful for what we do have, but the lack of cohesive thought process from the powers that be is very annoying. I probably have a false sense of entitlement due to spending tons of money on Prince...most of us have, but trying to be objective is not always easy...and Prince not leaving a will or instructions for the vault is part of the problem.

jaawwnn said:

I suppose what irks me is that it strikes me that the estate is still angling for a hit, and that to me is in bad taste. Prince is dead, his hit making days should be over, they shouldnt be compiling phoney pop albums. You want to respect his legacy? Then treat his music with the respect it deserves, it should at this point be released academically - like those massive Miles Davis and King Crimson boxes - where we can pore over the 25 versons of each track and think about what was released, what was not released, what mixing decions were made and why, and see how tracks evolved over time. What we don't need is three stupid colours of vinyl for a bunch of remixed demos. To release in this manner would be a for a very small market and would make the albums super expensive? Yeah so what? Download them illegally, rent them from your local library and rip them, fucking SAVE up your cash. Prince had his time in the pop charts, let others have theirs, he is too important to be competing with the flavour of the month. There's enough of an interest in this stuff to keep it going, maybe just not enough to buy a few mansions for whoever is in charge of the estate this week. As for being grateful for what we got, I AM grateful, just as I'm grateful for what I get from eye records, even when they stick a bunch of dumb audio filters on top of everything. Ive bought the deluxe edition of this release, I enjoy the music, I still think they're doing it wrong. Thats how i view it anyway, disagree at will, we're all fans here.

As I keep saying, the stooges in charge have never heard of Box Sets, never heard of Blu Ray, and just found out that cds hold more than 35 minutes of music. But yes, I am grateful we have what we have, but early in Prince's career, he made excellence the standard, and our views may be skewed on some things...but man...the possibilities with the vault..sad that they could be squandered.

stillwaiting said:

That's fine, I have no problem understanding someone's thought process. We are different, and you seem to be able to easily not be affected...that's great...I like your thought process. I am not a perfectoinist, but the warble in Erotic City is a flaw that could have been fixed. And some of the mixes were likely available in better quality, and the remaster is not horrible, but Josh Welton? Really?

And yes, as a whole, me included, should probably be more thankful for what we do have, but the lack of cohesive thought process from the powers that be is very annoying. I probably have a false sense of entitlement due to spending tons of money on Prince...most of us have, but trying to be objective is not always easy...and Prince not leaving a will or instructions for the vault is part of the problem.

Let me just say, I am not onboard with Welton doing what he did w/ the album itself. That warble was noticeable, and isn't there a weird drop in "Computer Blue"? It should've been perfect but it wasn't. But to have "Computer Blue" like that in general? I'll take it.

I'm giving the estate a tiny bit of slack, getting their footing, but time is running short. As with any estate in this situation - it's always a wait and see. No one ever knows what their plans are until it comes out, really.

TrivialPursuit said:

stillwaiting said:

That's fine, I have no problem understanding someone's thought process. We are different, and you seem to be able to easily not be affected...that's great...I like your thought process. I am not a perfectoinist, but the warble in Erotic City is a flaw that could have been fixed. And some of the mixes were likely available in better quality, and the remaster is not horrible, but Josh Welton? Really?

And yes, as a whole, me included, should probably be more thankful for what we do have, but the lack of cohesive thought process from the powers that be is very annoying. I probably have a false sense of entitlement due to spending tons of money on Prince...most of us have, but trying to be objective is not always easy...and Prince not leaving a will or instructions for the vault is part of the problem.

Let me just say, I am not onboard with Welton doing what he did w/ the album itself. That warble was noticeable, and isn't there a weird drop in "Computer Blue"? It should've been perfect but it wasn't. But to have "Computer Blue" like that in general? I'll take it.

I'm giving the estate a tiny bit of slack, getting their footing, but time is running short. As with any estate in this situation - it's always a wait and see. No one ever knows what their plans are until it comes out, really.

Overall, I'm thrilled to have something for PR Deluxe...and yes, some slack can be understandable...but as much as I hate cross-posting, some humor in here...from me from the Originals Thread:

_______________________________________________________________________________

I also think there are maybe one or two people on here who actually would like clean versions of the well known outtakes instead of hodge podge mish mashes like Originals. I think deep down, most of us are happy to have Originals, but some of the most deep die hards have a different vision of where we should be at over 3 years after Prince's passing. Sure some expect way too much, but just look at what Columbia has done since Bob Dylan died? At least over 100 different discs of outtakes, live albums, ect...oh yeah, Bob Dylan is not dead, but they are not making billions off of his stuff, it's a treat for his fans, and the hardest of the hardcore Prince fans can look to that and be jealous. Oh well, rant over.

[Edited 6/25/19 16:42pm]

I can't believe they released this as a 'single' of sorts. The vocal is awful because it's a scratch vocal meant as a guide for someone else.

dandan said:

I can't believe they released this as a 'single' of sorts. The vocal is awful because it's a scratch vocal meant as a guide for someone else.

Right.....the release was always marketed this way - as Prince's "demos" for other artists. It was never marketed to be Prince's finished and polished work. Anyone who was/is expecting that kind of recording has misunderstood the purpose of the release.

dandan said:

I can't believe they released this as a 'single' of sorts. The vocal is awful because it's a scratch vocal meant as a guide for someone else.

Ungrateful exhibit A.

stillwaiting said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Let me just say, I am not onboard with Welton doing what he did w/ the album itself. That warble was noticeable, and isn't there a weird drop in "Computer Blue"? It should've been perfect but it wasn't. But to have "Computer Blue" like that in general? I'll take it.

I'm giving the estate a tiny bit of slack, getting their footing, but time is running short. As with any estate in this situation - it's always a wait and see. No one ever knows what their plans are until it comes out, really.

Overall, I'm thrilled to have something for PR Deluxe...and yes, some slack can be understandable...but as much as I hate cross-posting, some humor in here...from me from the Originals Thread:

_______________________________________________________________________________

I also think there are maybe one or two people on here who actually would like clean versions of the well known outtakes instead of hodge podge mish mashes like Originals. I think deep down, most of us are happy to have Originals, but some of the most deep die hards have a different vision of where we should be at over 3 years after Prince's passing. Sure some expect way too much, but just look at what Columbia has done since Bob Dylan died? At least over 100 different discs of outtakes, live albums, ect...oh yeah, Bob Dylan is not dead, but they are not making billions off of his stuff, it's a treat for his fans, and the hardest of the hardcore Prince fans can look to that and be jealous. Oh well, rant over.

They haven't done anything because Bob Dylan is alive.

Good googly moogly.

Genesia said:

stillwaiting said:

Overall, I'm thrilled to have something for PR Deluxe...and yes, some slack can be understandable...but as much as I hate cross-posting, some humor in here...from me from the Originals Thread:

_______________________________________________________________________________

I also think there are maybe one or two people on here who actually would like clean versions of the well known outtakes instead of hodge podge mish mashes like Originals. I think deep down, most of us are happy to have Originals, but some of the most deep die hards have a different vision of where we should be at over 3 years after Prince's passing. Sure some expect way too much, but just look at what Columbia has done since Bob Dylan died? At least over 100 different discs of outtakes, live albums, ect...oh yeah, Bob Dylan is not dead, but they are not making billions off of his stuff, it's a treat for his fans, and the hardest of the hardcore Prince fans can look to that and be jealous. Oh well, rant over.

They haven't done anything because Bob Dylan is alive.

Good googly moogly.

And he'll keep posting too with no shame lol

dandan said:

I can't believe they released this as a 'single' of sorts. The vocal is awful because it's a scratch vocal meant as a guide for someone else.

The official message from The Estate, which is attached to the Manic Monday video and The Originals release:

*

"1984 was an astonishingly prolific year in Prince's career. Not only was he finalizing Purple Rain, but Prince was also penning some of the biggest hits of the 80's for other artists - from albums for The Time and Sheila E. to the massive singles "Nothing Compares 2 U" and "Manic Monday"."

*

"The effect was a complete saturation and transformation of the pop music landscape, with Prince both leading and subverting mainstream culture."

*

"The melodies of these hits are so familiar that they have become part of our musical heritage, but few have had the opportunity to hear Prince's original recordings of these songs."

*

"Together with archival footage from his vault, these recordings provide a rare window into Prince's creative process in this wildly productive era."

*

So, again....all are aware that this was not supposed to be a "polished" or "finished" Prince release - just an opportunity to listen to his demo process.

Genesia said:

stillwaiting said:

Overall, I'm thrilled to have something for PR Deluxe...and yes, some slack can be understandable...but as much as I hate cross-posting, some humor in here...from me from the Originals Thread:

_______________________________________________________________________________

I also think there are maybe one or two people on here who actually would like clean versions of the well known outtakes instead of hodge podge mish mashes like Originals. I think deep down, most of us are happy to have Originals, but some of the most deep die hards have a different vision of where we should be at over 3 years after Prince's passing. Sure some expect way too much, but just look at what Columbia has done since Bob Dylan died? At least over 100 different discs of outtakes, live albums, ect...oh yeah, Bob Dylan is not dead, but they are not making billions off of his stuff, it's a treat for his fans, and the hardest of the hardcore Prince fans can look to that and be jealous. Oh well, rant over.

They haven't done anything because Bob Dylan is alive.

Good googly moogly.

I mean...

rdhull said:

controversy99 said:

I'm a bit surprised at quite so much negativity on the use of rehearsal footage.

I certainly hope it leads to the full rehearsals being released but in terms of what the estate could do with a music video, this is much more interesting than a lyrics video.

"they" dont know WTF "they" r doing