What do you all think were mistakes/wrong choices that Prince made in his carreer, be it musically or otherwise.

And what effect it might have had on his music, career, life ?

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I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

Not participating with We Are The World band on the song.

(just a stupid mistake really imho... he should've done it)

Not touring Sign 'O' The Times Tour in the USA.

(would've don the album sales a bigger help...)

The choice of JW.

(nearly a decade of his career was conteminated by it...)

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What do you think ?

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It would have been fun to see a fully Purple Rain-Era Prince in full regalia singing WE ARE THE WORLD with the rest of the superstars of pop at the time... I wonder who's part he would have taken???

I think he would have CRUSHED Teddy Pendergrass' part.. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that was "His Slot"...

Vannormal said:

What do you all think were mistakes/wrong choices that Prince made in his carreer, be it musically or otherwise.

And what effect it might have had on his music, career, life ?

-

I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

Not participating with We Are The World band on the song.

(just a stupid mistake really imho... he should've done it)

Not touring Sign 'O' The Times Tour in the USA.

(would've don the album sales a bigger help...)

The choice of JW.

(nearly a decade of his career was conteminated by it...)

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What do you think ?

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I literally disagree with all of the above except for Grafitti Bridge. Cherry Moon is better than PR to me. I love that he didn't do We are the World and did Tears in Your Eyes instead. The SOTT movie would not have been as big of a success if he had toured in the USA. None of us are qualified to question his faith. The spirituality and inspiration that he got from his faith gave us many works like my favorite album, The Rainbow Children.

In my opinion, he made one major mistake and that was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992 that ruined some songs. Otherwise, his career was as close to perfect as possible.

In my opinion, he made one major mistake and that was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992 that ruined some songs. Otherwise, his career was as close to perfect as possible.

I think that Prince did okay, and if there were any less-than-very-personal problems along the way IHO he made sure that we knew about them. There were the occasional turkey releases, but today we know that he wasted no sudio time otherwise, given the volumes yet to be unveiled that he's left behind. Maybe chilling out on some of the physical stage antics that weakened his bod woulda' been a better move.

>

My personal wish for him would have been to acheive a better balance between the work and home life, and found more diverse friends beyond his given "bubble" but we all have our issues and unknowns that propel us along our way.

soladeo1 said:

donnyenglish said:

I literally disagree with all of the above except for Grafitti Bridge. Cherry Moon is better than PR to me. I love that he didn't do We are the World and did Tears in Your Eyes instead. The SOTT movie would not have been as big of a success if he had toured in the USA. None of us are qualified to question his faith. The spirituality and inspiration that he got from his faith gave us many works like my favorite album, The Rainbow Children.

In my opinion, he made one major mistake and that was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992 that ruined some songs. Otherwise, his career was as close to perfect as possible.

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I am with you. I absolutely love that he skipped We Are the World.

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And I agree that the biggest mistake he made was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992.

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stillwaiting said:

Well, sarcasm aside you think Cherry Moon was better than Purple Rain? That pretty much sums up your opinion there. Many die hard fans like me love it for what it is while knowing deep down inside it was an awful script full of cliche after cliche. Kinda like those who thoght hiding Laydown at the end of 20Ten was some moment of brilliance. Prince could have chilled out and not released anything after Purple Rain until SOTT and with Kiss as the lead single probably would have sold five million as a single LP but instead he slowly managed to sabotage his carer with help from Warners despite releasing the best music in history. Hard to do both but he did.

I also think Cherry Moon was better than Purple Rain, if for no other reason, it's a FUN movie. Purple Rain only sets itself apart from UTCM because of the performances. Cut those out, and it's an "awful script full of cliche after cliche."

lurker316 said:

donnyenglish said:

I literally disagree with all of the above except for Grafitti Bridge. Cherry Moon is better than PR to me. I love that he didn't do We are the World and did Tears in Your Eyes instead. The SOTT movie would not have been as big of a success if he had toured in the USA. None of us are qualified to question his faith. The spirituality and inspiration that he got from his faith gave us many works like my favorite album, The Rainbow Children.

In my opinion, he made one major mistake and that was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992 that ruined some songs. Otherwise, his career was as close to perfect as possible.

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I am with you. I absolutely love that he skipped We Are the World.

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And I agree that the biggest mistake he made was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992.

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i tend to think only non-fans hole the we are the world thing against him, ie, people who don't buy his records anyway. It killed his image with the general public though and that probably did him no good. He finally had to grant an interview to counter all the negative press, the big chick enquierer interview was the last straw.

at any rate, we had a thread like this before, not even that long ago, I don't think we need to rehash it.

stillwaiting said:

The SOTT movie would not have been as big of a success if he had toured in the USA. None of us are qualified to question his faith. The spirituality and inspiration that he got from his faith gave us many works like my favorite album, The Rainbow Children.

In my opinion, he made one major mistake and that was all the rap stuff in 1991-1992 that ruined some songs. Otherwise, his career was as close to perfect as possible.

I'm curious, when did you become a fan? Most people who were fans long before Purple Rain and 1999 don't use Purple Rain as their frame of reference. I tend to like his work that he is most involved with. The Purple Rain movie had a lot of hands on it. Cherry Moon was more from Prince and I really liked it.

[Edited 4/24/19 14:23pm]

soladeo1 said:

It would have been fun to see a fully Purple Rain-Era Prince in full regalia singing WE ARE THE WORLD with the rest of the superstars of pop at the time... I wonder who's part he would have taken???

I think he would have CRUSHED Teddy Pendergrass' part.. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that was "His Slot"...

What version you listening to? Teddy Pendergrass wasn't part of "We Are The World". (Did you mean James Ingram, maybe?)

The fact is that Huey Lewis' part in the bridge was Prince's part. It would have given the first moment of MJ and Prince dueting in some fashion. When Prince didn't show up, they gave it to Huey Lewis. There was a book that came out after the fact which listed everyone's part. Prince's name was in that part of the bridge, "but if you just believe, there's no way we can fall..."

TrivialPursuit said:

soladeo1 said:

It would have been fun to see a fully Purple Rain-Era Prince in full regalia singing WE ARE THE WORLD with the rest of the superstars of pop at the time... I wonder who's part he would have taken???

I think he would have CRUSHED Teddy Pendergrass' part.. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that was "His Slot"...

What version you listening to? Teddy Pendergrass wasn't part of "We Are The World". (Did you mean James Ingram, maybe?)

The fact is that Huey Lewis' part in the bridge was Prince's part. It would have given the first moment of MJ and Prince dueting in some fashion. When Prince didn't show up, they gave it to Huey Lewis. There was a book that came out after the fact which listed everyone's part. Prince's name was in that part of the bridge, "but if you just believe, there's no way we can fall..."

I didnt know this!! Amazing what this could have been...but to your point, Huey did a great job on it...

EVERYTHING Prince(r.i.p.) did happened the way it was suppose to happen...

^^@EmmaMcG, as a Prince fan that also loves God, I disagree with your number 2. His loving God and not being afraid to admit it (especially being in the business that he was in)..made me love and admire him and his music even more! I loved that about him!

EmmaMcG said:

This is going to turn into a "what did you not like about Prince" thread. Or perhaps it was designed to be that from the beginning. Instead of discussing his actual mistakes we'll just end up listing things that we didn't like. Well, I'll at least try to limit my response to things that negatively impacted his career. [length snip]

Emma's list x1000.

EmmaMcG said:

This is going to turn into a "what did you not like about Prince" thread. Or perhaps it was designed to be that from the beginning. Instead of discussing his actual mistakes we'll just end up listing things that we didn't like. Well, I'll at least try to limit my response to things that negatively impacted his career. 1. His "rap phase" in the early 90s. Prince is often revered as one of music's true originals. A man who marched to the beat of his own (linn) drum. And for the most part, that's true. But his 90s work, specifically, his early 90s work, was too much of a departure and just seemed like he was trying to keep up with the "cool kids". And for the first time in his career, he seemed out of his depth. The man was music personified. He should never have lowered himself to the standards of Tony M. 2. The whole Jehovahs Witness thing. OK, maybe not the whole thing. He was a grown man and he was free to believe in whatever he wanted. But it's when he allowed himself to bring his religion into his music and alienate a lot of his fans in the process, that's when he took it too far. I've known a lot of Prince fans and not one of them listens to his music to hear him prattle on about God. 3. Not allowing his music on the Internet. Kind of self explanatory. He missed out on a great opportunity to bring his music to a younger audience. I don't use streaming myself but it's clearly a very popular platform. He should have been all over that. 4. Not reuniting with The Revolution for Purple Rain anniversary shows. Think about it. The year is 2014. Purple Rain is celebrating its 30th anniversary. Prince announces a world tour with The Revolution to celebrate the occasion. Think of the money he could have made from that kind of a tour. Not to mention the success a modern day "Prince And The Revolution" album could have had. 5. Going on TV and talking about chemtrails like it's a real thing. I don't need to explain that, do I? When people already think you're weird, don't give them more reasons to make fun of you.

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I absolutely agree.

Example: The Beatles' music wasn't available on the internet for a long time. After 5 years excitence of iTunes, they were the first to have The Beatles music on there. And in 2015 it went on to others platforms as well (Spotify, Apple Music, Google Play, Tidal and Amazon Prime Music...), very late actually. One expert suggested that the move would help their legacy endure.

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A new 'The Revolution' album after 30 years of celebrating PR, would've been a great idea.

Touring would always been out of the question, although I feel what you say and kind of agree.

Musically Prince moved on so far away from that era, although he kept on playing these songs live over and over, but with different bands, sounds, arrangements, shows, etc... It was the 'aha-erlebnis' that made him attrack people to his shows in the 90s & later. They came to hear these songs. He kinda knew that. These tours also gave him extra cash to do what he wanted to do, alone in the studio, etc...

We all know by now that he never looked back (or didn't wanted to look back), and always wanted to try new things...

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oceanblue said:

EmmaMcG said:

donnyenglish said:

EmmaMcG said:

You're in the minority there. But despite you disagreeing with me, surely you can see that his beliefs had a negative impact on his career. The changing of lyrics, the refusal to play some of his most popular songs. Compare the lyrics of "Uptown" to "1+1+1=3". They sound like they've been written by 2 different people. As a musician, his job was to sell records. By bringing his religion into his music, he alienated a lot of fans. Therefore, his records were not going to sell as much as they had previously. Therefore, it was a mistake on his behalf to sing about theocratic orders when his fans wanted him to sing about dance, music, sex and romance. Thankfully, it's a mistake he seemed to rectify because from Musicology onwards, his religious messages were steadily dropped.

It is funny because a lot of purple rain era fans may not realize that Purple Rain, I Would Die 4 U, Let’s Go Crazy and even the end of Darling Nikki are some of the most overtly religious songs in his entire catalog. But when Prince went back to his roots and changed the music to deliver the message from 80’s pop to funk, soul or jazz then the Purple Rain era fans started complaining about the message when it their issue was really the music and their preference for 80’s pop. Some of us were there for his roots and realize that Prince evolution was just a circle.

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Yes, Prince's songs always had a religous angle. But there's a big difference between the songs you list and some of his later career songs. The message remained the same, but its delivery was different. The message in the songs you list was subtle and not overbearing. But in many of his later songs the message was simplified and sanctimoneous. In short, he become preachy.

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EmmaMcG said:

Well, I'll at least try to limit my response to things that negatively impacted his career. 1. His "rap phase" in the early 90s. Prince is often revered as one of music's true originals. A man who marched to the beat of his own (linn) drum. And for the most part, that's true. But his 90s work, specifically, his early 90s work, was too much of a departure and just seemed like he was trying to keep up with the "cool kids". And for the first time in his career, he seemed out of his depth. The man was music personified. He should never have lowered himself to the standards of Tony M.

I strongly agree. When I said that the rap was a big mistake, that wasn't simply because I personally disliked it (though, admitted, I did). I had two objections to it, which are very similar (if not the same) as yours:

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First, up to that point in his career he was always trying to stay ahead of music trends and make the stuff he liked. But when it came to rap/hip-hop, he was chasing a trend. He was trying to play catchup rather than be at the vanguard.

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Second, it erodded his fan base. I personally know a dozen people who were all super hardcore Prince fanatics throughout the '80s. But all of them lost interest in Prince during the early '90s because they hated the direction his music was taking.

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lurker316 said:

donnyenglish said:

EmmaMcG said:

donnyenglish said:

So reciting the Lord’s Prayer verbatim in Controversy was subtle? I Would Die 4 U is subtle? For You is subtle? For the Tears in Your Eyes is subtle? God was subtle? The end of Darling Nikki is subtle? The Cross is subtle? Prince’s overt message never changed. But, his music went from 80’s pop to funk, RB and jazz and those who drove to his shows in their little red corvette wanted to go back to the 80’s pop sound.

There's a difference between reciting the Lords prayer on an otherwise "sinful" album and putting out an album like The Rainbow Children. The Controversy, Purple Rain, Sign O The Times albums never felt preachy in the way some of his later albums did. And it's that preachiness that turned people off. Hence, why I included that point in the list of mistakes he made, career-wise. And yes, the end of Darling Nikki, when you have to play the record backwards to understand it, is subtle. In fact, anything that requires you to play the record backwards is very subtle.

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There's a difference between mistakes in the business sense and artistic mistakes, and in my eyes the biggest mistake a real artist can make is to give up his artistic vision for the sake of pleasing fans. Prince did that too and in my eyes those were his artistic mistakes, not The Rainbow Children or any of the preaching he did throughout his career. I respect him greatly for having the strength of coming out with a project like The Rainbow Children knowing full well that it will alienate some of his fans. He followed his beliefs and artistic vision. That's what great artists do.

EmmaMcG said:

lurker316 said:

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Yes, Prince's songs always had a religous angle. But there's a big difference between the songs you list and some of his later career songs. The message remained the same, but its delivery was different. The message in the songs you list was subtle and not overbearing. But in many of his later songs the message was simplified and sanctimoneous. In short, he become preachy.

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And that's exactly the point I was making. If I wanted to be preached at, I'd go to church.

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You actually did go to church by going to his concert or listening to his records.

Kares said:

Kares said:

EmmaMcG said:

Kares said:

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There's a difference between mistakes in the business sense and artistic mistakes, and in my eyes the biggest mistake a real artist can make is to give up his artistic vision for the sake of pleasing fans. Prince did that too and in my eyes those were his artistic mistakes, not The Rainbow Children or any of the preaching he did throughout his career. I respect him greatly for having the strength of coming out with a project like The Rainbow Children knowing full well that it will alienate some of his fans. He followed his beliefs and artistic vision. That's what great artists do.

Yes, there's a difference between business mistakes and artistic mistakes. But this thread didn't specify which it was looking for. So I listed both. The religious records are business mistakes. The rap stuff in the early 90s were artistic mistakes.

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I disagree with hiphop having been an artistic mistake in Prince's career, I actually liked a lot of it, especially when he himself was rapping. But that's ok, different strokes for different folks.