As far as the racial matter, I try to do what's right, but we all have different opinions. I personally would not use the N Word. Other humans used it with vigor when murders were goin' on way back when, and even now, just not as much. For that reason, I don't use it. But I'm not gonna grill someone else for it. Freedom of Speech is what it is. It's difficult to accept any view other than your own on racial matters. I just wish it had been a better album...and that's one opinion I can't change.

I appreciate your contribution to the thread. We may not agree on the specific merits of individual projects, but you epxressed you opinions repectfully and in a reasoned manner. Prince was always reaching, always trying for something new and that meant that each new project had a risk of alienating his listeners. It was intentional on his side, I believe. just look at ATWIAD after PR as an example.

Often it seems thet the side projects were a way to try out new ways of doing things that the got reflected in the next major release under his own name. For example Romance 1600 and The Family in the run up to Parade. I think I will start occasional threads on reassessing other side projects and hope to choose something not quite so contentious as this seems to be.

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

or worse...its akin to those certain people who stated that black people only voted for Obama because he was black, negating all other reasons etc etc..which was seen here.

.

[Edited 5/22/19 8:00am]

not just here lol

yeah, but that is how it goes, in general it seems people have a hard time with gray areas and tones, inbetweens etc

.

I think, the disparaging of the 1980 period or like in the Come era thread, comparison of Purple Rain to Come, is almost disrespectful to the focus, direction, energy and quality into the craft of why it was so successful.

.

I find that a lot of us here actually do take the time and effort to measure the album era/music because we are Prince fans.

.

And of course there are those fans who just co-sign every album as being good or better. And I feel those are not genuine. Nor are they critical thinking about Prince's vision and direction for the particular albums. everything isn't a MASTERPIECE.

.

Like I can look at Purple Rain, UTCM and Graffiti Bridge and judge them according to the purpose and direction individually. (Same with the albums) And I still cannot co-sign Graffiti Bridge. I tried Lord knows I tried over and over. I've done threads dissecting it from different angles. And then go watch it and it doesn't work.

TSOF = The Sacrifice Of Victor (the song not the video album), there is a strong line about the word nigga in it. -> CE = Carmen Electra -> GN = Gold Nigga -> DOW = Days Of Wild. That's an interesting chronology when it comes to the topic at hand

.

I ain't no Quentin Tarentino character to go around calling strangers "niger" or "bitch" in real life, and yeah of course if Sonny T or any other stranger called me "yo whitey" or "yo faggot" or if a female stranger would call me "yo, cismale" out of the blue I'd probably be like "WTF?". But I do not and should not react to the things people say in real life the same way I react to the things artists or their characters say in songs, books or movies.

.

On a sidenote I'm relistening to Ronny Jordan's The Antidote, it's a nice, smooth record to start the day on a good vibe and yeah, the rap is neat (not Guru though, I think Guru was on the next album in 94), but despite its innovative aspects (for 1992), it tends to dwelve into corny, radio-friendly smooth jazz at times. Released at the exact same time on a perfectly similar concept, I find Miles' Doo Bop waaay more interesting. Yet I rememeber Ronny's record being perceived as "fresh and innovative" and Miles" as "old jazzman trying to sound cool and miserably failing at it".

Germanegro said:

I don't wish to veer too far off from the album critique (lol, OF4S) but too late now, I guess!

>

Databank, I'm not quite sure that I can understand your full meanings here beyond pointing out that The NPG, The Time (bands) and Prince all had the ability to project similar images? Plus I gotta' say those album acronyms are hard for me to follow right now--that's on me, I guess. I need to relocate my Prince flash cards! Racism, sexism, or exceptional funkiness may be highlighted by any of these groups and pique one's attention in different ways. Words definitely matter and can provoke one's sensitivities differently even in a song done in humor.

>

Theoretical case in point--please don't get me wrong--if you were strolling in Minnie right now and happened upon Sonny Thompson, held out your hand, smiled and said "What's up nigga," dude just might punch you right in your face, probably because he does not know you nor accept whatever your context could be and be perfectly willing to assume the worst in your effort, given your choice term of greeting. If he said the same thing to you from his stage perch introducing his show (which he doesn't actually do, based on my own experience), it might give you the same visceral reaction: What did he say, and why?

(Joking--I'm not trying you punch you for real.)

>

databank said:

All I can say is that any use of any word is based on context. Words are not offensive per se.

I can't imagine how and why Prince of all people could be deemed offensive using the N word, particularly after TSOF which is sort of a direct prelude to GN (chronologically, it is, with only CE in between). Whichever statement P was trying to make with GN, Black MF In The House and 2gether included, can't possibly be deemed demeaning for African-American people. At worst, Prince -with his lack of street cred- was making a caricature of how Black men sold themselves and what he was expected to be as a Black man himself, he addressed that in DOW only a few month later, he was well aware of that.

Now do you identify with it? IDK, but is Prince (or the Black Panther OST for that matter) racist? Nope. Is the use of the N word gratuitous? Maybe. But in that sense Morris Day/The Time was a GROSS caricature of an old school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message, and 10 years later Tony M./The NPG was a gross caricature of a new school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between Morris and Tony (the parts not the people) in terms of being offensive, gross stereotypes, regardless whether the N word. Today many women or feminist males would find the Morris Day character from The Time to Pandemonium as being outrageously offensive, and in a way that's worse because while P and Tony were Black men, neither P nor Morris were women...

In my deuce and a quarter feelin' funky funky fine
And I'm rockin' that stupid shit
In my deuce and a quarter feelin' funky funky fine
And I'm rockin' that stupid shit

Rollin' in my deuce deuce 5
Convertible top down so I can see the honeys passin' me by
It's a beautiful day in my neighborhood
But 5 or 10 minutes, a criminal puts me in a bad mood
And some would say that's just a black man's perspective
But nowaday, I find that it's reflective
Of what I see goin' down everyday
My brothers and my sisters gettin' played
So we revert 2 committin' dope, many brothers get hurt
By another brother who don't like salt in his dirt
Cuz in the streets, see, that's the way it is
U keep your mouth shut and stay out of other people's biz
See, the system wasn't made 4 me or U
And as a matter of fact, it wasn't made 4 a poor white who...
Gets their weekly hit
Or should I say that weekly check and start depending on that shit like a glass dick
These are some of the feelings that I'm holdin'
But everything's fine while I'm rollin'...

CHORUS

(Don't everyday)

How many, how many times must we commit crimes
Against people no better off than us, but in our own minds?
A-havin' it, grabbin' it, tastin' it
And when U step off, I finally rub your face in it
See, the local's preacher is not suited 4 the have-nots
The poor get poorer and the rich continue 2 clock ... not!
That means U end up with the booty
And we all know a broke man is a man with no friends
And that's basically the way society is
And money talk, pusher walk and sleepin' on the politics
Soon we must live 2 consolidate
As we continue 2 consume instead of producin', seal our on fate
(In my deuce and a quarter feelin' funky funky fine)
People right now really don't give a damn
(And I'm rockin' that stupid shit)
Cuz in the 20 mile radius, there's probably not one black and...
Hispanic taken 4 granted and left 2 clean their own shit up, huh
No need 4 panic, I'm out
That's bullshit!

CHORUS

In my... in my... in my...
Rockin' that stupid shit
Rockin'... rockin'... rockin' that stupid shit

Tony M. - lead vocals
Michael B. - drums
Sonny T. - bass guitar
Levi Seacer, Jr. - guitar
Prince - all other instruments, except where noted (assumed)
Kirk Johnson - background vocals
Damon Dickson - background vocals
Rosie Gaines - sampled background vocals
Tommy Barbarella - piano
Michael B. Nelson - horns (uncredited)
Kathy Jensen - horns (uncredited)
Dave Jensen - horns (uncredited)
Brian Gallagher - horns (uncredited)
Steve Strand - horns (uncredited)

-PVault

dodger said:

Vannormal said:

-

Well...

What I particularly like about this album is the fun-element.

It should've been a The Time album. Imagine Morris singing

'Black MF in the house' (Love it. It's great and fun. Even Tony M's rap is OK.)

"...hey boy U gonna play the piano, or just bang on it?..." (the way he says it!)

'Johnny' is a fun song too, only, here I really don't like Tony's rap, and the song is a bit too long.

The overall fresh sound did not age at all. It could've been a good funk album made today, if only the collection of songs was better.

A track like 'Goldies Parade' is a wonderfuyl instrumental, but should've been on another Madhouse? album... imho of course.

But the overall tracks I really don't like. 'Get Wild' and 'Call The Law'... naaaah.

Think I will try this album again in 20 years.

-

Get Wild is on Exodus, not Gold Nigga.

-

how fucked up is that !

-

[Edited 5/24/19 2:54am]

One of the issues of judging a "Prince" album like this is that there needs to be an understanding of direction, purpose etc

People will try to deny it, but when he released Come and the Black Album(in 1994) it was a 'throw away' response. It was not to express a vision or direction.

I didn't think about this before, but people are judging this by 1. their adoration of Prince 2. their respect of Prince 3. individual songs 4. the full album 5. the ERA