All i'm saying is I used to think of Goldnigga as unlistenable, unredeemable garbage but now I've come round to it as a fun side-project. I'll be liking MPLsound next

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Sadly that is the usual go to 'if a person doesn't like _ album' they are old Revolution fans' 45 isn't old... it's ageism I tell ya

.

I need a neighborhood bakery bought cupcake now, with real thick frosting and a snooze under an old oak tree

or worse...its akin to those certain people who stated that black people only voted for Obama because he was black, negating all other reasons etc etc..which was seen here.

.

[Edited 5/22/19 8:00am]

not just here lol

yeah, but that is how it goes, in general it seems people have a hard time with gray areas and tones, inbetweens etc

.

I think, the disparaging of the 1980 period or like in the Come era thread, comparison of Purple Rain to Come, is almost disrespectful to the focus, direction, energy and quality into the craft of why it was so successful.

.

I find that a lot of us here actually do take the time and effort to measure the album era/music because we are Prince fans.

.

And of course there are those fans who just co-sign every album as being good or better. And I feel those are not genuine. Nor are they critical thinking about Prince's vision and direction for the particular albums. everything isn't a MASTERPIECE.

.

Like I can look at Purple Rain, UTCM and Graffiti Bridge and judge them according to the purpose and direction individually. (Same with the albums) And I still cannot co-sign Graffiti Bridge. I tried Lord knows I tried over and over. I've done threads dissecting it from different angles. And then go watch it and it doesn't work.

jaawwnn said:

All i'm saying is I used to think of Goldnigga as unlistenable, unredeemable garbage but now I've come round to it as a fun side-project. I'll be liking MPLsound next

I thought I would like MPLsound the best when it first came out. After all the 'Chocolat box nuggets'

But it was LotusFlow3r that has still held my attention.

20Ten I like from the start.

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't thiink that is true. It's 1 album. It's not even a 'PRINCE' album proper. It's not like Madhouse or What Time Is It? I mean Tony M is taking most of the lead. and the band is mostly playing. Why does a Prince fan have to like it? I cannot say I would like a Cat lead rap album of similar direction.

.

I think that is too 'cut n paste' to say 'older stuck on the Rev and crew' conclusion. I LOVE 1983-1986. ADORE IT. But I'm also a fan of the whole 1978-1989 period. I'm also a HUGE fan of the 1977demo yrs - 1979Prince period. I'm also a HUGE fan of the 1987-1988 period. I'm also a huge fan of the Gold Experience ERA. I'm also a HUGE 2001-2002 ONA -Rainbow Children fan.

.

I think there are a lot of reasons a person can dislike the Goldnigga album

It doesn't matter how Tony comes across in podcasts. I'm a fan of the Roots, Common and a lot of early-mid 90s underground(non West Coast) rap. It isn't a judgement of Tony Mosley, but Tony M the lead(rapper) on this 1 album/project.

Its a shame you have to explain this to the masses but god bless you for it for having the strength.

The "masses" have degrees and an IQ of 130 (and lots of depression, addiction and psychological issues, too, I may be more educated or smarter than the "masses", I sure ain't happier, let alone more productive )

.

But I agree to disagree with OF4S and you as well, we're cool, I made my point and if you ain't convinced, then you ain't

.

[Edited 5/22/19 8:56am]

jaawwnn said:

All i'm saying is I used to think of Goldnigga as unlistenable, unredeemable garbage but now I've come round to it as a fun side-project. I'll be liking MPLsound next

Define "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage".

That's a pretty radical statement. There certainly is some music that I could label as such, IDK maybe this: https://www.youtube.com/w...fGX3nOv0d4 or this https://www.youtube.com/w...Wzlhm0_r0A.

But anything made by Prince, even his weakest works? Nooo way.

So IDK, either people who think Prince could ever produce "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage" listen to the Top 40 too much, or they don't listen to it enough, it's either or

I like Goldnigga because I think of it as an edgy side project. It's not rap, I really wouldn't call it that but more in the way of rap/singing. The rap approach is languid but the messages presented are worthy enough to me even though they're mainly lightweight. People don't appear to like Tony M.'s record persona, tho'! Tupac wasn't much of a rapper either, compositionally, wasn't he, but he gets big props for his lyrical content so go figure. Maybe if SnoopDogg had the guest vocal assignment on Goldnigga more Hip-Hop heads might have checked this one out? Anyway, folks who call the messages crap content are definitely not the target audience of this project.

Funny what you say about MPLsound! I like it except for a couple of songs. To me, "Here" is on the edge of treacle, but I like the melody so it can pass as okay. "Better With Time" is a no-go for me--waaay to treacly, and I never thought I'd hear Prince singing about grandma but he does it here, for sure.

>

20Ten, I want to like it more, but for some reason I'm looking for better lyrical content on many of those songs--some incubation or reworking of ideas might have helped, but despite that I still have some favorite songs in that collection.

>

OldFriends4Sale said:

jaawwnn said:

All i'm saying is I used to think of Goldnigga as unlistenable, unredeemable garbage but now I've come round to it as a fun side-project. I'll be liking MPLsound next

I thought I would like MPLsound the best when it first came out. After all the 'Chocolat box nuggets'

But it was LotusFlow3r that has still held my attention.

20Ten I like from the start.

Someone has a narcissistic injury

databank said:

jaawwnn said:

All i'm saying is I used to think of Goldnigga as unlistenable, unredeemable garbage but now I've come round to it as a fun side-project. I'll be liking MPLsound next

Define "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage".

That's a pretty radical statement. There certainly is some music that I could label as such, IDK maybe this: https://www.youtube.com/w...fGX3nOv0d4 or this https://www.youtube.com/w...Wzlhm0_r0A.

But anything made by Prince, even his weakest works? Nooo way.

So IDK, either people who think Prince could ever produce "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage" listen to the Top 40 too much, or they don't listen to it enough, it's either or

But just because someone will call GN unlistenable, (Graffiti Bridge is unwatchable) doesn't mean they don't call Top 40 songs unlistenable as well.

.

And maybe they don't listen to it 'enough' is because they think a lot of Top 40 is unredeemable...?

.

#1 for me I have a HARD time with "Ni&&a'. It's why I through away the Black Panther movie soundtrack. Ni&&a and Bitch is said waaaay too much. I actually thought I was going to hear the Score music. Which was wonderful.

.

the title track, the music is cool, but the song overall is unlistenable for me... nails scratching a chalk board

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

Never read the lyrics and not being a native English speaker, never got 'em in detail without a lyrics sheet. Makes me wanna stop and read' em https://genius.com/albums...Gold-nigga

the rapping is atrocious, the lyrics are garbage

But the music is nice

Has Prince ever covered any of these songs post 1996?

Hell nah..too embarrassing no doubt.

I too, cannot stand gratuitous use of "Ni&&a." Depends on how the word is framed--I have my limits! The word can be a firebrand to keep/steer people away, or to sequester one or a group.

>

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

Define "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage".

That's a pretty radical statement. There certainly is some music that I could label as such, IDK maybe this: https://www.youtube.com/w...fGX3nOv0d4 or this https://www.youtube.com/w...Wzlhm0_r0A.

But anything made by Prince, even his weakest works? Nooo way.

So IDK, either people who think Prince could ever produce "unlistenable, unredeemable garbage" listen to the Top 40 too much, or they don't listen to it enough, it's either or

But just because someone will call GN unlistenable, (Graffiti Bridge is unwatchable) doesn't mean they don't call Top 40 songs unlistenable as well.

.

And maybe they don't listen to it 'enough' is because they think a lot of Top 40 is unredeemable...?

.

#1 for me I have a HARD time with "Ni&&a'. It's why I through away the Black Panther movie soundtrack. Ni&&a and Bitch is said waaaay too much. I actually thought I was going to hear the Score music. Which was wonderful.

.

the title track, the music is cool, but the song overall is unlistenable for me... nails scratching a chalk board

There are generations of African Americans and African descendant people who abhor the N word in all forms.

Both of my parents are mixed race part African/European. Both of them cannot stand the use of the N word. I came of age in the tme when rap was making its first strong appearance in the 80s. My dad just never got it. Understandably, a lot of it was not 'melodic' for him. A lot of drum machines and rapping just wasn't it for him. UTFO and Roxanne Shante he just would not get with. The early-mid 1990s presented a wider range of rap genre styles ie Digable Planets, my fam being jazz fans he liked. ah De La Soul, touched my bohemian soul. Now the Roots I totally fell into. But I had to let him hear splices of songs or really screen songs by them, because they used the N word. Not as much as GN or the Black Panther soundtrack, but enough that I just could not say 'here dad, have a listen'

The use of the N word on GN is just too much...

Germanegro said:

I too, cannot stand gratuitous use of "Ni&&a." Depends on how the word is framed--I have my limits! The word can be a firebrand to keep/steer people away, or to sequester one or a group.

>

OldFriends4Sale said:

But just because someone will call GN unlistenable, (Graffiti Bridge is unwatchable) doesn't mean they don't call Top 40 songs unlistenable as well.

.

And maybe they don't listen to it 'enough' is because they think a lot of Top 40 is unredeemable...?

.

#1 for me I have a HARD time with "Ni&&a'. It's why I through away the Black Panther movie soundtrack. Ni&&a and Bitch is said waaaay too much. I actually thought I was going to hear the Score music. Which was wonderful.

.

the title track, the music is cool, but the song overall is unlistenable for me... nails scratching a chalk board

Seriously, that whole MF BS about the music is, in fact, all about the N word in the first place??? So much for the OP asking for the thread not to be derailed!!

WTF are y'all talking about???!!! Prince, a BLACK man, and Tony Mosley, another BLACK man, in a NPG made of BLACK men (save for Tommy, sorry, Tommy), can't use the word NIGGA?! To the point that we have to spell it N&gg& on the fucking Org?

And Woody Allen and the Coen Brothers cant' crack jokes about Jews?

And Spike Lee is right to ban Tarantino from having actors saying the N word even though he's writing parts for characters?

And I can't crack jokes about my own group?

OK so (based on what I found online, I ain't no native speaker) I am a REDNECK WHITEY CIS SISSY, OK?

Guys, seriously??!!

https://www.youtube.com/w...U9QzC2U0BY

https://www.youtube.com/w...&t=72s

https://www.youtube.com/w...EMR4iIjfZU

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious chaotic and confusing

https://variety.com/2018/...202818977/

https://www.youtube.com/w..._U8XLDFZnY

Akala addressing N word

databank said:

Seriously, that whole MF BS about the music is, in fact, all about the N word in the first place??? So much for the OP asking for the thread not to be derailed!!

WTF are y'all talking about???!!! Prince, a BLACK man, and Tony Mosley, another BLACK man, in a NPG made of BLACK men (save for Tommy, sorry, Tommy), can't use the word NIGGA?! To the point that we have to spell it N&gg& on the fucking Org?

And Woody Allen and the Coen Brothers cant' crack jokes about Jews?

And Spike Lee is right to ban Tarantino from having actors saying the N word even though he's writing parts for characters?

And I can't crack jokes about my own group?

OK so (based on what I found online, I ain't no native speaker) I am a REDNECK WHITEY CIS SISSY, OK?

Guys, seriously??!!

There's an underlying subliminal , maybe subconscious, racist stint at play here in the I'm better and smarter than you stance of a certain poster. It makes me smh and roll my eyes. Its like 2004 and the Moors Of Spain years but...nicer.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious chaotic and confusing

https://variety.com/2018/...202818977/

databank said:

Seriously, that whole MF BS about the music is, in fact, all about the N word in the first place??? So much for the OP asking for the thread not to be derailed!!

WTF are y'all talking about???!!! Prince, a BLACK man, and Tony Mosley, another BLACK man, in a NPG made of BLACK men (save for Tommy, sorry, Tommy), can't use the word NIGGA?! To the point that we have to spell it N&gg& on the fucking Org?

And Woody Allen and the Coen Brothers cant' crack jokes about Jews?

And Spike Lee is right to ban Tarantino from having actors saying the N word even though he's writing parts for characters?

And I can't crack jokes about my own group?

OK so (based on what I found online, I ain't no native speaker) I am a REDNECK WHITEY CIS SISSY, OK?

Guys, seriously??!!

It is not a slamd-dunk to assume that all groups of Black folks will embrace the word nigga/ni&&er. It's origin is a demeaming slur. Something not to forget. Among the people it can stand for endearment or a term of belonging, but then, too can be overused due to the the word's ultimate origin--not a term coined by Black Americans! Unless of course you don't care about any of that and fall for the psychological pathologies that haunt some folk. That's why I said "language" in my very first post to this thread as a potential deterrent to any liking of the recordings in question.

>

I'd think that many people of divergent origins could relate or have a similar experience among their culture! The potential to promote hate among peoples seems to be a universal human characteristic.

rdhull said:

grantevans said:

Please explain why it is bullshit? Is it Tony M?

In short; he went from enigma genius music to.....Goldnigga. Tarnishes his legacy imho. I said tarnish, not ruin etc so dont crucify me! Computer Blue....Black Mf In The House etc. Im glad it was a side project.

RDull, i think 'tarnish' is not correct. While I do agree that it's light hearted and more of joking affair, there are some superb arrangements and the sound is so organic. Tony never sounded bad on this to me. I thought JOhnny was hilarious and the instrumental parts were just super. Prince is funny as hell. Black MFs...again, hilarious and it's as legitimate as (or isn't) the early Time stuff.

To me, what will last is his diversity, breadth and the fact that his life was truly in his recordings. He made music when he was happy, sad, mad, etc. This one was made when he was in a good light hearted mood...at least it sounds like it.

To me, revisiting these odds/ends albums is so satisfying now with him gone and with the acceptance no new music will ever come out of that artist of a century, is very thrilling to do. I look forward to it. I have spent more time with Rainbow Children and One Night Alone since his passing than I ever had before. Gems.

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious

databank said:

Seriously, that whole MF BS about the music is, in fact, all about the N word in the first place??? So much for the OP asking for the thread not to be derailed!!

WTF are y'all talking about???!!! Prince, a BLACK man, and Tony Mosley, another BLACK man, in a NPG made of BLACK men (save for Tommy, sorry, Tommy), can't use the word NIGGA?! To the point that we have to spell it N&gg& on the fucking Org?

And Woody Allen and the Coen Brothers cant' crack jokes about Jews?

And Spike Lee is right to ban Tarantino from having actors saying the N word even though he's writing parts for characters?

And I can't crack jokes about my own group?

OK so (based on what I found online, I ain't no native speaker) I am a REDNECK WHITEY CIS SISSY, OK?

Guys, seriously??!!

All I can say is that any use of any word is based on context. Words are not offensive per se.

I can't imagine how and why Prince of all people could be deemed offensive using the N word, particularly after TSOF which is sort of a direct prelude to GN (chronologically, it is, with only CE in between). Whichever statement P was trying to make with GN, Black MF In The House and 2gether included, can't possibly be deemed demeaning for African-American people. At worst, Prince -with his lack of street cred- was making a caricature of how Black men sold themselves and what he was expected to be as a Black man himself, he addressed that in DOW only a few month later, he was well aware of that.

Now do you identify with it? IDK, but is Prince (or the Black Panther OST for that matter) racist? Nope. Is the use of the N word gratuitous? Maybe. But in that sense Morris Day/The Time was a GROSS caricature of an old school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message, and 10 years later Tony M./The NPG was a gross caricature of a new school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between Morris and Tony (the parts not the people) in terms of being offensive, gross stereotypes, regardless whether the N word. Today many women or feminist males would find the Morris Day character from The Time to Pandemonium as being outrageously offensive, and in a way that's worse because while P and Tony were Black men, neither P nor Morris were women...

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious

All I can say is that any use of any word is based on context. Words are not offensive per se.

I can't imagine how and why Prince of all people could be deemed offensive using the N word, particularly after TSOF which is sort of a direct prelude to GN (chronologically, it is, with only CE in between). Whichever statement P was trying to make with GN, Black MF In The House and 2gether included, can't possibly be deemed demeaning for African-American people. At worst, Prince -with his lack of street cred- was making a caricature of how Black men sold themselves and what he was expected to be as a Black man himself, he addressed that in DOW only a few month later, he was well aware of that.

Now do you identify with it? IDK, but is Prince (or the Black Panther OST for that matter) racist? Nope. Is the use of the N word gratuitous? Maybe. But in that sense Morris Day/The Time was a GROSS caricature of an old school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message, and 10 years later Tony M./The NPG was a gross caricature of a new school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between Morris and Tony (the parts not the people) in terms of being offensive, gross stereotypes, regardless whether the N word. Today many women or feminist males would find the Morris Day character from The Time to Pandemonium as being outrageously offensive, and in a way that's worse because while P and Tony were Black men, neither P nor Morris were women...

well that is a real conversation that should be had databank. Yes I've the conversation is in historic discussion or we are 'DEALING' with that term or any other ethnic/racial slur, yes context is important. I, when talking of different time periods with use labels/terms used then. I don't apply current labels to term of times past. I cannot stand reading books or watching movies of ancient times and hear current cultural terms/language being used. If I'm talking of the 1930s I don't use African-American/Black, I use 'Colored' 'Negro' 'Mulatto' for example.

Prince nor Tony M speak for African-Americans. So to say it 'cannot be' demeaning for African descendant people is niave.

"I didn't take it too seriously. Just fun, nothing ethereal."

but for others, myself included, I did take the 'study' of his music seriously.

Check this vid on the side, really. Get a feel of what people think about the N word.

This is a discussion for a different forum. But needs to be had

Germanegro said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious chaotic and confusing

https://variety.com/2018/...202818977/

It is not a slamd-dunk to assume that all groups of Black folks will embrace the word nigga/ni&&er. It's origin is a demeaming slur. Something not to forget. Among the people it can stand for endearment or a term of belonging, but then, too can be overused due to the the word's ultimate origin--not a term coined by Black Americans! Unless of course you don't care about any of that and fall for the psychological pathologies that haunt some folk. That's why I said "language" in my very first post to this thread as a potential deterrent to any liking of the recordings in question.

>

I'd think that many people of divergent origins could relate or have a similar experience among their culture! The potential to promote hate among peoples seems to be a universal human characteristic.

Hey, lol in our reassessing. Looks like even the unintended purpose, has some good. I like wisdom among us, thank you.

stillwaiting said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I mean, his rap influence the way he integrated it was for the most part pretty cheesy, but I still gotta figure the people who absolutely can't stand it on any level 0 tolerance policy already don't care much for rap... Could be wrong, sure.

.

I kinda thought that was why it's always "chasing fads" or "following trends" only with regards to rap, because that segment of the audience still regards rap as a "fad" or "trend" 40+ years down the pike and counting when rock kinda ended up being the genre that went away and existing more "of a time" best remembered through older legacy artists and past songs.

[Edited 5/16/19 22:25pm]

I was a big rap fan. Had around 100 rap cds, most from 1982-1997. When rap became 85% guns, weed, and more weed and more guns, I stopped as it seemed too shallow, and with Prince, it was like if U2 suddenly started making Big Band records...it just did not fit, and Tony was the perfect example of cheesy. And not cheesy good like Hair Pop Metal like Poison, cheesy like William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy doing rap. It just wreaked. But I understand some will like anything. But not a single one of Prince's rap songs come up when someone is discussing his legacy. Given the proper promotion and censorship, P Control and Days Of Wild were among his two best chances. Although you can argue Housequake is rap, and you can argue against it being rap, it was perhaps his best chance at being a hit among rap songs if you consider it rap. Again, like P Control, proper promotion and censorship are huge issues. And by this time, Prince and Warners teamed up to destroy Prince's career with absurd singles choices like Glam Slam and even one of his best songs, If I Was Your Girlfriend, which is just not a single. They may as well have released Dorothy Parker, as great as it was, would not likely have garnered much airplay.

good post.

Sorry, I don't mean to bring him up. By brother and I were looking at 1989 and MJ's BAD album. I forgot that almost every song was released as a single/with accompanying video.

I wondered why didn't Prince do that but split it up. Certain singles released in Europe certain singles released in the USA. He sure did seem to want to destroy his career in the ways he started releasing music. But part of thinks, that reveales something I read in a 1990 interview. Where he seems to believe he knew what was best for the fans (artist 2 viewer). And feeling like he needed to 'enlighten' he released the songs that as singles that he felt we needed.

I don't wish to veer too far off from the album critique (lol, OF4S) but too late now, I guess!

>

Databank, I'm not quite sure that I can understand your full meanings here beyond pointing out that The NPG, The Time (bands) and Prince all had the ability to project similar images? Plus I gotta' say those album acronyms are hard for me to follow right now--that's on me, I guess. I need to relocate my Prince flash cards! Racism, sexism, or exceptional funkiness may be highlighted by any of these groups and pique one's attention in different ways. Words definitely matter and can provoke one's sensitivities differently even in a song done in humor.

>

Theoretical case in point--please don't get me wrong--if you were strolling in Minnie right now and happened upon Sonny Thompson, held out your hand, smiled and said "What's up nigga," dude just might punch you right in your face, probably because he does not know you nor accept whatever your context could be and be perfectly willing to assume the worst in your effort, given your choice term of greeting. If he said the same thing to you from his stage perch introducing his show (which he doesn't actually do, based on my own experience), it might give you the same visceral reaction: What did he say, and why?

(Joking--I'm not trying you punch you for real.)

>

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, not at all. I think I've said in other places other aspects of why I don't get into it. That is just one part of it. And language is a part of music.

Even Prince stopped using it.

.

And please don't assume that African descendant people have to 'Get With' the N word. I'm American. In the late 80s and early to mid 90s you had extreme debates public and private on if that term should be used, especially as it began to make a very loud appearance in rap music.

.

Yes seriously 'Ni&&a' is just broken english for 'Ni&&er'

it will always be contentious

All I can say is that any use of any word is based on context. Words are not offensive per se.

I can't imagine how and why Prince of all people could be deemed offensive using the N word, particularly after TSOF which is sort of a direct prelude to GN (chronologically, it is, with only CE in between). Whichever statement P was trying to make with GN, Black MF In The House and 2gether included, can't possibly be deemed demeaning for African-American people. At worst, Prince -with his lack of street cred- was making a caricature of how Black men sold themselves and what he was expected to be as a Black man himself, he addressed that in DOW only a few month later, he was well aware of that.

Now do you identify with it? IDK, but is Prince (or the Black Panther OST for that matter) racist? Nope. Is the use of the N word gratuitous? Maybe. But in that sense Morris Day/The Time was a GROSS caricature of an old school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message, and 10 years later Tony M./The NPG was a gross caricature of a new school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between Morris and Tony (the parts not the people) in terms of being offensive, gross stereotypes, regardless whether the N word. Today many women or feminist males would find the Morris Day character from The Time to Pandemonium as being outrageously offensive, and in a way that's worse because while P and Tony were Black men, neither P nor Morris were women...

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

All I can say is that any use of any word is based on context. Words are not offensive per se.

I can't imagine how and why Prince of all people could be deemed offensive using the N word, particularly after TSOF which is sort of a direct prelude to GN (chronologically, it is, with only CE in between). Whichever statement P was trying to make with GN, Black MF In The House and 2gether included, can't possibly be deemed demeaning for African-American people. At worst, Prince -with his lack of street cred- was making a caricature of how Black men sold themselves and what he was expected to be as a Black man himself, he addressed that in DOW only a few month later, he was well aware of that.

Now do you identify with it? IDK, but is Prince (or the Black Panther OST for that matter) racist? Nope. Is the use of the N word gratuitous? Maybe. But in that sense Morris Day/The Time was a GROSS caricature of an old school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message, and 10 years later Tony M./The NPG was a gross caricature of a new school materialistic Black sexist with (despite) somewhat of a message. Honestly, I fail to see the difference between Morris and Tony (the parts not the people) in terms of being offensive, gross stereotypes, regardless whether the N word. Today many women or feminist males would find the Morris Day character from The Time to Pandemonium as being outrageously offensive, and in a way that's worse because while P and Tony were Black men, neither P nor Morris were women...

well that is a real conversation that should be had databank. Yes I've the conversation is in historic discussion or we are 'DEALING' with that term or any other ethnic/racial slur, yes context is important. I, when talking of different time periods with use labels/terms used then. I don't apply current labels to term of times past. I cannot stand reading books or watching movies of ancient times and hear current cultural terms/language being used. If I'm talking of the 1930s I don't use African-American/Black, I use 'Colored' 'Negro' 'Mulatto' for example.

Prince nor Tony M speak for African-Americans. So to say it 'cannot be' demeaning for African descendant people is niave.

"I didn't take it too seriously. Just fun, nothing ethereal."

but for others, myself included, I did take the 'study' of his music seriously.

Check this vid on the side, really. Get a feel of what people think about the N word.

This is a discussion for a different forum. But needs to be had

I think it has to do with my VPN me being in fucking China.

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Just to be clear, I mean I know you know, but in case others would misunderstand me, I don't mean to sound insensitive. I've been called names by all sorts of people because of the way I was born, and I didn't like it, we discussed this in PM, so I can't deny the harm words can do.

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But I'm standing tall when it comes to "minority" people using the dissing vocabs (such as Blacks saying Ni**a, or Jews cracking jokes at Jews), authors having their character using such words because it's their character's venacular (such as Tarantino writing racist characters), and freedom of arts in general. While I was never shook by P using the N word because I assumed it's OK because he's Black, I was sometimes irritated by the way he'd make Morris or Tony (or even "Prince", sometimes, and I ain't even talking about Extraloveable) sound awfully sexist. Then I'd be like, OK, those are characters, I'm not supposed to identify with Morris Day but I can find him cool the way I find Scarface or the Godfather or the Joker cool, which doesn't mean I condone murder, racket or violence, just that as an arist myself and an arts lover in general, I believe it's also the arts' function to make us experiment things that are beyond our field of experience, that make us experiment wrong and even sometimes evil, as a catharis or even just as a game.

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Like Georges Bataille once said, artists have, may have a fascination towards evil, and for them as well as for the audience it's a game of transgression. I strongly believe works of art to be beyond politics and even more beyond morality. Not above it, not below it, but beyond it. Morality, in the end, is always the problem of the audience not the artist (as long as the work of art isn't a pamphlet desguise as a lame work of art, which sometimes unfortunately happens).

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On these words, IGG to bed :/

I LOVE this album. It's a concept album, it is what it is and fits with the theme of Prince's conflict with record companies. Is it the greatest album? No. Is it excellent funk? Yes.

databank said:

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I'm totally with you here, dude, but if I've learned one thing it's that when even Prince fans and professional critics altogether have a biased vision of his whole career, based on the impact, mythos and innovations of the 80's, what can we do to spread the word? And 18 years on the Org have shown me that the fans at least can't and won't be reasoned. Just because we believe it doesn't mean we can make everyone else believe it, and we're talking about some stubborn MF's here, and not just when it comes to P, but a general attitude towards musical artists

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Funny, I can be reasoned with on multiple topics, even political. But Tony M? Can't be reasoned with. Many have tried and died. The "Mister Money Minder" speech at the end was along with Wedding Feast, and Purple & Gold, among the things I will never like. My least favorite song on Parade was Life Can Be So Nice for quite a while, but around 1992 or so, it finally hit me, I Wonder U is the worst, and Life Can Be So Nice is top 5 on that album. So I can change, I can adjust...on most things.