EmmaMcG said:

poppys said:

Your opinion and maybe the majority opinion, idk. Still doesn't make it a "mistake".

If the majority of your fans make fun of one of your songs, then I'd personally call that song a mistake. You may have a different word for it and that's fine.

Tribal warfare it is then, deciding what's enjoyable and what's not. I'd simply call it a silly, fun song as it was imagined, but those are "mistakes" to you and that other tribe.

EmmaMcG said:

Kares said:

.
I disagree with hiphop having been an artistic mistake in Prince's career, I actually liked a lot of it, especially when he himself was rapping. But that's ok, different strokes for different folks.

I don't mind some of his hip hop songs either. But there was nothing artistic about his decision to do that kind of music. There was nothing artistic about giving Tony M so much airtime. And there was definitely nothing artistic about Jughead. He was merely following the trends of the time.

I love me some Prince--to the max. I never minded admitting this.

>

Not only was the man brilliant, sensitive, plugged into the universe of music and able to express sentiments that we'd only dreamt about or deciphered through allegorical expression, freeing them in the common term; he'd deign to tamp down his virtuosic skills to that of a formulaic trend-surfer and allow the unwashed masses of the nineties who cared, to get down with the Purple Love. I hail him for embracing Tony M. It was as if he embraced aspirant pop-rappers for a while: "flow on then, start slippin' and skippin' and pumpin around so much I say bring it on!" <"The Flow"> Bad stuff for those of your own artistic ilk, no doubt, but for those few of us it was glorious.

Love to Prince!

Germanegro said:

EmmaMcG said:

Kares said: I don't mind some of his hip hop songs either. But there was nothing artistic about his decision to do that kind of music. There was nothing artistic about giving Tony M so much airtime. And there was definitely nothing artistic about Jughead. He was merely following the trends of the time.

I love me some Prince--to the max. I never minded admitting this.

>

Not only was the man brilliant, sensitive, plugged into the universe of music and able to express sentiments that we'd only dreamt about or deciphered through allegorical expression, freeing them in the common term; he'd deign to tamp down his virtuosic skills to that of a formulaic trend-surfer and allow the unwashed masses of the nineties who cared, to get down with the Purple Love. I hail him for embracing Tony M. It was as if he embraced aspirant pop-rappers for a while: "flow on then, start slippin' and skippin' and pumpin around so much I say bring it on!" <"The Flow"> Bad stuff for those of your own artistic ilk, no doubt, but for those few of us it was glorious.

Love to Prince!

Rock to the F.L.O.W.

[Edited 4/25/19 20:12pm]

I dont like peeps talking about P's mistakes because surely someone could write a book about my mistakes in life.

Mistakes make your life better.

You don't learn in life if you don't make mistakes.

Germanegro said:

-

Interesting !

From what I can distill from the majority of those respondings here

is that the choices Prince took concerning RAP and jehova witness influences in his music

are assumed as mistakes or bad/wrong choices.

-

...and always Jughead will be the victim... somehow.

I never liked the D&P nor the symbol album that much. Never liked the sound and the instrumentation of it. Technically there are great songs on both albums though, imho.

-

'De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum' of course.

Always peace.

-

The thing is, when you're an artist, the minute you try avoiding artistic mistakes, that's the end of it. That's the end of creativity and true self-expression.

Making mistakes is a vital part of creativity and only those unafraid of mistakes can ever be truly free artists – and I believe Prince was one of the very few (comparable to the likes of Chaplin, Schönberg, Miles, or Picasso).

.
It's very easy to ridicule certain songs for being silly or repetitive or for following trends instead of setting them, but don't forget that the process of creating something is primarily about following your instincts. Regardless of where your inspiration comes from – it might come from somewhere above and it might be radically innovative, it might come from something you heard on the radio or it might even come from your manager nagging you for a hit – the moment you are creating it you are in the flow, you forget about others and just follow your instincts. Therefore what you end up is more or less an honest reflection of where you were at, what your feelings were at the time.

.

Free artistic geniuses like him very often come up with "mistakes", yet when you examine one of these "mistakes", you'll still easily find bits of brilliance in there, and what's even more important in my eyes: a glimpse of the soul of the person who created it. Yes, even in 'Jughead' that so many Prince fans just love to hate. It's a fun song and I can actually imagine it being completely rearranged to the sound of the hits kids listen to these days, with updated lyrics, and turned into a major hit as part of a blockbuster film. Who knows.

"Purple mistakes" is just another trick bag thread title anyway. Like a lot of hyperbolic titles here.

[Edited 4/26/19 6:12am]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I dont like peeps talking about P's mistakes because surely someone could write a book about my mistakes in life.

Mistakes make your life better.

You don't learn in life if you don't make mistakes.

I agree 100%.

It's no coincidence that almost all the successful people I talk to or interview spend much more time talking about their mistakes - and how they fixed them - than anything else.

poppys said:

"Purple mistakes" is just another trick bag thread title anyway. Like a lot of hyperbolic titles here.

[Edited 4/26/19 6:12am]

-

Peach&Black mistakes ?

Diamond mistakes ?

Pearly Mistakes ?

Princely mistakes ?

Royal mistakes ?

Paisley mistakes ?

3.121 mistakes ?

whatever.

-

Kares said:

The thing is, when you're an artist, the minute you try avoiding artistic mistakes, that's the end of it. That's the end of creativity and true self-expression.

Making mistakes is a vital part of creativity and only those unafraid of mistakes can ever be truly free artists – and I believe Prince was one of the very few (comparable to the likes of Chaplin, Schönberg, Miles, or Picasso).

.
It's very easy to ridicule certain songs for being silly or repetitive or for following trends instead of setting them, but don't forget that the process of creating something is primarily about following your instincts. Regardless of where your inspiration comes from – it might come from somewhere above and it might be radically innovative, it might come from something you heard on the radio or it might even come from your manager nagging you for a hit – the moment you are creating it you are in the flow, you forget about others and just follow your instincts. Therefore what you end up is more or less an honest reflection of where you were at, what your feelings were at the time.

.

Free artistic geniuses like him very often come up with "mistakes", yet when you examine one of these "mistakes", you'll still easily find bits of brilliance in there, and what's even more important in my eyes: a glimpse of the soul of the person who created it. Yes, even in 'Jughead' that so many Prince fans just love to hate. It's a fun song and I can actually imagine it being completely rearranged to the sound of the hits kids listen to these days, with updated lyrics, and turned into a major hit as part of a blockbuster film. Who knows.

-

But I agree on Kares points here.

I might contradict myself with this one, but it is so true.

There will always be a bit of brilliance in every song.

-

I read once that a reporter stated that any given artist would love to grab anything from Prince's dustbin, music he doesn' want to use.

Makes me wonder if Prince ever threw away ideas or music.

(No, don't start the Wally thing, or The Black Album. )

-

Vannormal said:

poppys said:

"Purple mistakes" is just another trick bag thread title anyway. Like a lot of hyperbolic titles here.

[Edited 4/26/19 6:12am]

-

Peach&Black mistakes ?

Diamond mistakes ?

Pearly Mistakes ?

Princely mistakes ?

Royal mistakes ?

Paisley mistakes ?

3.121 mistakes ?

whatever.

-

Exactly. Whatever word you place in front of mistake doesn't change anything, it's the word mistake. It's a headline grabber - and 100% subjective. If you're gonna write it that way, expect word choice blowback. Doesn't mean it's not a valid thread.

EmmaMcG said:

Germanegro said:

Tribal warfare it is then, deciding what's enjoyable and what's not. I'd simply call it a silly, fun song as it was imagined, but those are "mistakes" to you and that other tribe.

That's the thing, it's not even about MY personal preference. This thread is about mistakes he made. I just happen to not like Jughead or a lot of his rap songs. But I could also say that the Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic album was among his mistakes for the same reason as his early 90s rap songs. He was following the trends of the time and not doing it as well as the people he was emulating. Now, I really like the Rave album. Moreso than most people on here. But I can still point to it and say that it was a mistake.

Yes you're right of course, those songs you're not enamored of you can call mistakes. People exhibiting more caution with regard to keeping their speak of personal taste under the level of hyperbole might otherwise pull back and say that such a song is "questionable" but that's just a semantics wheel.

>

Keep in mind that James Brown and probably a few of his fans called Prince's moves and sounds a cheaper knockoff of Brown's own style. Little Richard and probably a few of his fans, also, called Prince's moves, sounds, costume, and hairstyle a cheaper knockoff of his Mr. Penniman's own style.

Marvin Gaye was reputed to have scorned Prince's bedroom props and stage antics as a really bad idea.

>

You could say that some of these folks had an axe to grind due to some professional jealousy, perhaps, but they're (and their devoted fans are also) still entitled to their opinions, as well.

>

By such reasoning a lot of people can honestly declare some of the Purple Genius' more popularly enjoyed acts to be "mistakes," as well!

>

From my perspective, it's a toss-up to call someone's artistic choices a mistake. If any person is favorably inspired by a certain style or adaptation that the artist has appropriated, regardless of the proportionality of its liking, you can't really definitively say that the song or style is a "mistake."

>

And again, you have to define your parameters for failure in declaring the thing a mistake. For instance, say, that Jughead song gets laughed at a lot and people just hate it because the lyrics are stupid, so the song is a mistake. But if that laughter and acting stupid is exactly the point of the jingle then what are you saying? I mean, the lyric "get stupid" is actually in that song, so, okay, it is a stupid song. So what?

>

Everybody has their opinions, so I guess that is what this thread is really about--giving your opinion. Rock on!

RodeoSchro said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I dont like peeps talking about P's mistakes because surely someone could write a book about my mistakes in life.

Mistakes make your life better.

You don't learn in life if you don't make mistakes.

I agree 100%.

It's no coincidence that almost all the successful people I talk to or interview spend much more time talking about their mistakes - and how they fixed them - than anything else.

After UTCM, would you say Graffiti Bridge showcased that he had learned from his previous mistakes?

Kares said:

The thing is, when you're an artist, the minute you try avoiding artistic mistakes, that's the end of it. That's the end of creativity and true self-expression.

Making mistakes is a vital part of creativity and only those unafraid of mistakes can ever be truly free artists – and I believe Prince was one of the very few (comparable to the likes of Chaplin, Schönberg, Miles, or Picasso).

.
It's very easy to ridicule certain songs for being silly or repetitive or for following trends instead of setting them, but don't forget that the process of creating something is primarily about following your instincts. Regardless of where your inspiration comes from – it might come from somewhere above and it might be radically innovative, it might come from something you heard on the radio or it might even come from your manager nagging you for a hit – the moment you are creating it you are in the flow, you forget about others and just follow your instincts. Therefore what you end up is more or less an honest reflection of where you were at, what your feelings were at the time.

.

Free artistic geniuses like him very often come up with "mistakes", yet when you examine one of these "mistakes", you'll still easily find bits of brilliance in there, and what's even more important in my eyes: a glimpse of the soul of the person who created it. Yes, even in 'Jughead' that so many Prince fans just love to hate. It's a fun song and I can actually imagine it being completely rearranged to the sound of the hits kids listen to these days, with updated lyrics, and turned into a major hit as part of a blockbuster film. Who knows.

I don't know that I would call Prince's forays into hip hop a mistake, but I would say that his very early attemps (ie Tony M) felt somewhat disingenuous. I would find it hard to believe you record "Dead On It" basically clowning the genre, but then three years later you're such a fan you want to incorporate it into your sound.

That's my issue. It didn't feel at first that it was coming from an honest place, true self-expression, but more, "hip hop has overtaken funk and r&b as the dominant genre, Lovesexy and Graffiti Bridge sold like crap for a pop star of my magnitute, I need to follow trends to keep up."

MajesticOne89 said:

Kares said:

The thing is, when you're an artist, the minute you try avoiding artistic mistakes, that's the end of it. That's the end of creativity and true self-expression.

Making mistakes is a vital part of creativity and only those unafraid of mistakes can ever be truly free artists – and I believe Prince was one of the very few (comparable to the likes of Chaplin, Schönberg, Miles, or Picasso).

.
It's very easy to ridicule certain songs for being silly or repetitive or for following trends instead of setting them, but don't forget that the process of creating something is primarily about following your instincts. Regardless of where your inspiration comes from – it might come from somewhere above and it might be radically innovative, it might come from something you heard on the radio or it might even come from your manager nagging you for a hit – the moment you are creating it you are in the flow, you forget about others and just follow your instincts. Therefore what you end up is more or less an honest reflection of where you were at, what your feelings were at the time.

.

Free artistic geniuses like him very often come up with "mistakes", yet when you examine one of these "mistakes", you'll still easily find bits of brilliance in there, and what's even more important in my eyes: a glimpse of the soul of the person who created it. Yes, even in 'Jughead' that so many Prince fans just love to hate. It's a fun song and I can actually imagine it being completely rearranged to the sound of the hits kids listen to these days, with updated lyrics, and turned into a major hit as part of a blockbuster film. Who knows.

I don't know that I would call Prince's forays into hip hop a mistake, but I would say that his very early attemps (ie Tony M) felt somewhat disingenuous. I would find it hard to believe you record "Dead On It" basically clowning the genre, but then three years later you're such a fan you want to incorporate it into your sound.

That's my issue. It didn't feel at first that it was coming from an honest place, true self-expression, but more, "hip hop has overtaken funk and r&b as the dominant genre, Lovesexy and Graffiti Bridge sold like crap for a pop star of my magnitute, I need to follow trends to keep up."

disingenuous

The first person I heard say this word was Marcia Clark.

Sorry, I couldnt help myself.

MajesticOne89 said:

Kares said:

The thing is, when you're an artist, the minute you try avoiding artistic mistakes, that's the end of it. That's the end of creativity and true self-expression.

Making mistakes is a vital part of creativity and only those unafraid of mistakes can ever be truly free artists – and I believe Prince was one of the very few (comparable to the likes of Chaplin, Schönberg, Miles, or Picasso).

.
It's very easy to ridicule certain songs for being silly or repetitive or for following trends instead of setting them, but don't forget that the process of creating something is primarily about following your instincts. Regardless of where your inspiration comes from – it might come from somewhere above and it might be radically innovative, it might come from something you heard on the radio or it might even come from your manager nagging you for a hit – the moment you are creating it you are in the flow, you forget about others and just follow your instincts. Therefore what you end up is more or less an honest reflection of where you were at, what your feelings were at the time.

.

Free artistic geniuses like him very often come up with "mistakes", yet when you examine one of these "mistakes", you'll still easily find bits of brilliance in there, and what's even more important in my eyes: a glimpse of the soul of the person who created it. Yes, even in 'Jughead' that so many Prince fans just love to hate. It's a fun song and I can actually imagine it being completely rearranged to the sound of the hits kids listen to these days, with updated lyrics, and turned into a major hit as part of a blockbuster film. Who knows.

I don't know that I would call Prince's forays into hip hop a mistake, but I would say that his very early attemps (ie Tony M) felt somewhat disingenuous. I would find it hard to believe you record "Dead On It" basically clowning the genre, but then three years later you're such a fan you want to incorporate it into your sound.

That's my issue. It didn't feel at first that it was coming from an honest place, true self-expression, but more, "hip hop has overtaken funk and r&b as the dominant genre, Lovesexy and Graffiti Bridge sold like crap for a pop star of my magnitute, I need to follow trends to keep up."

Prince(r.i.p.) also once said "Is time for jazz to die" but later incorporated many jazz pieces in his music. So he changed his mind a lot about what he wanted to do or not do.

Cue Miles Davis. Purple evolution!

ChocolateBox3121 said:

lurker316 said:

.

Each of the songs you list were experiemental. They were Prince testing the waters and trying to do his own thing. He was trying to set himself apart from the pack.

.

The rap Prince put out in the early '90s was different. With his '90s rap, he was playing catch up, chasing a trend, trying to make himself relevant and popular in a certain demographic. He was tying to join the pack rather than distance himself from it.

.

To put it another word, with songs like All the Critics, Irresistable Bitch, and Bob George, he was trying to sound like on one else on the radio. But with Tony M's raps, he was trying to sound like everyone on the radio.

.

Also, Dean on It was making fun of rap.

.

-

...excuse me but, where are the lies in here ?

I mean, they are opinions. And very good ones.

The style of rapping used in for instance All The Critics... or Irresistable Bitch is not thé RAP as it was meant on for instance Jughead or Dead On It (and I even dare to discuss Dead On It. ).

Opinions differ, but there is not one lie in lurker36's comment, and opinions are allowed to differ.

Always peace.

-

ChocolateBox3121 said:

MajesticOne89 said:

I don't know that I would call Prince's forays into hip hop a mistake, but I would say that his very early attemps (ie Tony M) felt somewhat disingenuous. I would find it hard to believe you record "Dead On It" basically clowning the genre, but then three years later you're such a fan you want to incorporate it into your sound.

That's my issue. It didn't feel at first that it was coming from an honest place, true self-expression, but more, "hip hop has overtaken funk and r&b as the dominant genre, Lovesexy and Graffiti Bridge sold like crap for a pop star of my magnitute, I need to follow trends to keep up."

Prince(r.i.p.) also once said "Is time for jazz to die" but later incorporated many jazz pieces in his music. So he changed his mind a lot about what he wanted to do or not do.

He did say that, but I never took that lyric literally. Even so, I would argue there's a difference in appreciating, but wanting to move on from a genre that's been around for decades as opposed to flat out disrespect for a newer, up-and-coming one. But you're right, people are allowed to change their minds and I'm glad he did because I love Days of Wild!

Vannormal said:

What do you all think were mistakes/wrong choices that Prince made in his carreer, be it musically or otherwise.

And what effect it might have had on his music, career, life ?

-

I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

Not participating with We Are The World band on the song.

(just a stupid mistake really imho... he should've done it)

Not touring Sign 'O' The Times Tour in the USA.

(would've don the album sales a bigger help...)

The choice of JW.

(nearly a decade of his career was conteminated by it...)

-

What do you think ?

-

Mistake/wrong choice suPREME: Changing his name to an unpronounable symbol. That pretty much did him in right there. It only made him look arrogant and unapproachable; the music that followed was absolutely putrid (until "Musicology." LAME title tho.) "3121" wasn't any better title-wise. It's one thing 2b cryptic, but wholly another when no one gets where you're comin' from or where you're goin'. Only few have had success with that approach 2 their music and Prince wasn't one of 'em. His Gemini sun sign probably didn't help him much either. Gemini men tend 2b easily distracted and have poor taste in presentation (i.e. too many ideas at once and a natural need 2 throw it all UP.) In one word: sloppy. That brings me to another mistake/wrong choice: The album covers. Horrible. Did he honestly believe that the photos used on some of those albums looked GOOD? The original "Diamonds And Pearls" was awful. Smh. The best album cover (for me) is "Planet Earth." PERFECT. It connected with what was presented, put him up front and center and didn't look cheap or haphazard. Otherwise, "Musicology" (a comeback of sorts) was a good looking album cover? Mistake. MY opinions, of course and no malice intended. Much luv and may the Purple Master continue 2 R.I.P. <3

[Edited 4/28/19 13:01pm]

MajesticOne89 said:

RodeoSchro said:

I agree 100%.

It's no coincidence that almost all the successful people I talk to or interview spend much more time talking about their mistakes - and how they fixed them - than anything else.

After UTCM, would you say Graffiti Bridge showcased that he had learned from his previous mistakes?

Hard to say, but you can be sure that Prince learned from each of those projects.

If you don't think Prince leasrned from his mistakes, you should take a closer look at his career.

.

[Edited 4/29/19 8:39am]

Vannormal said:

What do you all think were mistakes/wrong choices that Prince made in his carreer, be it musically or otherwise.

And what effect it might have had on his music, career, life ?

-

I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

Not participating with We Are The World band on the song.

(just a stupid mistake really imho... he should've done it)

Not touring Sign 'O' The Times Tour in the USA.

(would've don the album sales a bigger help...)

The choice of JW.

(nearly a decade of his career was conteminated by it...)

-

What do you think ?

-

Self directing UTCM and Grafitti Bridge was the ONLY way to go on this. If you are talking from a commercial appeal, perhaps so, but from a creative aspect, self directing was smart. Produced arranged composed and performed by Prince.......we have come to love that line right? It means everything we are hearing came from the man himself, why should that appeal not translate to film, regardless of commercial success? For me, I would rather watch something that came 100% from Prince, without anyone tainting his creative process, than to have something commercially successful where his artistic vision is comrpomised, edited or truncated in some way.

He wrote a song for we are the world instead, a much more personal and heartfelt way of participating than showing up to sing.

SOTT tour, yeah I agree, but I don't think it had an impact on his career.

Who are we to judge what someone should choose as their religion, or how they should love God? Contaminated is a VERY strong and intolerant word to use. While it would be interesting to see what all those years would have looked like if he never met Larry, if one truly loves Prince, then that choice would have to be respected I think.

Just like the rest of us, he made plenty of them, but he never looked back. People that dont make mistakes never really make anything. Even the questionable movies led to some amazing music.

leadline said:

Vannormal said:

What do you all think were mistakes/wrong choices that Prince made in his carreer, be it musically or otherwise.

And what effect it might have had on his music, career, life ?

-

I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

Not participating with We Are The World band on the song.

(just a stupid mistake really imho... he should've done it)

Not touring Sign 'O' The Times Tour in the USA.

(would've don the album sales a bigger help...)

The choice of JW.

(nearly a decade of his career was conteminated by it...)

-

What do you think ?

-

Self directing UTCM and Grafitti Bridge was the ONLY way to go on this. If you are talking from a commercial appeal, perhaps so, but from a creative aspect, self directing was smart. Produced arranged composed and performed by Prince.......we have come to love that line right? It means everything we are hearing came from the man himself, why should that appeal not translate to film, regardless of commercial success? For me, I would rather watch something that came 100% from Prince, without anyone tainting his creative process, than to have something commercially successful where his artistic vision is comrpomised, edited or truncated in some way.

He wrote a song for we are the world instead, a much more personal and heartfelt way of participating than showing up to sing.

SOTT tour, yeah I agree, but I don't think it had an impact on his career.

Who are we to judge what someone should choose as their religion, or how they should love God? Contaminated is a VERY strong and intolerant word to use. While it would be interesting to see what all those years would have looked like if he never met Larry, if one truly loves Prince, then that choice would have to be respected I think.

EmmaMcG said:

razord said: