EmmaMcG said:

Kares said:

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You actually did go to church by going to his concert or listening to his records.

Well, I don't believe in God myself but as I've mentioned on other threads, my uncle is a Catholic priest. And as open minded as he is, I don't think he'd put the likes of Sexy Dancer, P Control and Darling Nikki on quite the same level as going to church

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I'm sure you're right about that. But what I meant that it was the Church of Prince. He "preached" about sex and God almost equally as much, and gospel was also an integral element of his music.

Kares said:

EmmaMcG said:

Kares said:

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I disagree with hiphop having been an artistic mistake in Prince's career, I actually liked a lot of it, especially when he himself was rapping. But that's ok, different strokes for different folks.

I don't mind some of his hip hop songs either. But there was nothing artistic about his decision to do that kind of music. There was nothing artistic about giving Tony M so much airtime. And there was definitely nothing artistic about Jughead. He was merely following the trends of the time.

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I like Jughead too It's funky. You're right in saying that it wasn't innovative, I accept that. But still, a lot of stuff from that era has great musicianship and Prince enjoyed it, it was honest and as usual from him, spontaneous (as opposed to something manufactured and polished for months in the studio) so it's definitely artistic in my eyes.

Kares said:

I agree that Prince became more preachy. He was beating you over the head with his message and it also felt like he was judging you. And I certainly understand how that turned some fans off.

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But with all of that said, I loved the Rainbow Children. It's one of my all time favorite albums. I personally think the words are silly, but I ignore them. When I listen this (or any Prince album for that matter) I'm primarily listening for the music, not the lyrics.

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Heck, another of my favorites is Lovesexy, which is also religous.

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Bottom line, I'm not a religous person myself, but his religous stuff doesnt' bother me. I apprecaite Prince for his musicianship, not for his world view. And that's ok.

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EmmaMcG said:

Kares said:

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I like Jughead too It's funky. You're right in saying that it wasn't innovative, I accept that. But still, a lot of stuff from that era has great musicianship and Prince enjoyed it, it was honest and as usual from him, spontaneous (as opposed to something manufactured and polished for months in the studio) so it's definitely artistic in my eyes.

Well, like you said, each to their own. I like a lot of his more maligned songs too. But had rap music not been as popular in the late 80s/early 90s, I doubt Prince would have dabbled in it. That's why I feel he sacrificed his artistic vision in order to remain "relevant". So I agree with you that his decision to put out a record like The Rainbow Children should be applauded however, that's not without its own issues, as I pointed out earlier. For me, HitnRun Part 2 is the perfect middle ground. It clearly wasn't trying to emulate what was in the charts and yet still had mass commercial appeal. If only it had been more widely advertised. But I don't blame Prince for that.

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You're right in saying he was following a trend with hiphop. And I'm sure he was very much interested in trying to stay relevant and be on the charts too. So OK, even though I like that stuff too, I agree with you that it can be considered an artistic mistake from someone who had the talent to do truly extraordinary things too.

The 90's WAS NOT Prince's(r.i.p.) first time doing rap. I get SO tired of people saying that. "All The Critics Love U in NY, Irresistible Bit--,"Dead On It",'Bob George','HouseQuake' 'Days of Wild' were all rap songs also and the list goes on.

[Edited 4/25/19 17:03pm]

The biggest missed opportunity was not releasing or creating some of his best work after he was 'free', ie post 1996. There was all this hype about what would happen when he was free but we got NewpowerSoul and Rave, which were big let downs! I mean imagine what gems he could have released instead and made himself a big player again.

It was almost as if being free made him lose the motivation to get stuff out or put effort in. When he was with WB he kept complaining they weren't releasing his stuff quickly enough but then when he was 'free' he was acting more like a record company and reducing the frequency (and quality) of releases which kind of defeated the object for fans.

Also, getting involved with the JW's. Before that he seemed very spiritual and open minded when once he got involved with them he became somewhat conformist and narrow minded spiritually, not what we were used to from such an inspirational innovator. It was if he lost independence and his true sense of self but I'm sure all the stuff with Mayte and the baby triggered the need for some comfort. It seems he became somewhat vulnerable and it appears Larry and the JW's were only too happy to step in and fill that void.

[Edited 4/25/19 8:15am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

The 90's WAS NOT Prince's(r.i.p.) first time doing rap. I get SO tired of people saying that. "All The Critics Love U in NY, Irresistible Bit--,"Dead On It",'Bob George','HouseQuake' etc. were ALL rap songs. Nor was Tony M his introduction Into rap. "Now" & "Acknowledge Me" were both rap songs also and the list goes on.

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Each of the songs you list were experiemental. They were Prince testing the waters and trying to do his own thing. He was trying to set himself apart from the pack.

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The rap Prince put out in the early '90s was different. With his '90s rap, he was playing catch up, chasing a trend, trying to make himself relevant and popular in a certain demographic. He was tying to join the pack rather than distance himself from it.

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To put it another word, with songs like All the Critics, Irresistable Bitch, and Bob George, he was trying to sound like on one else on the radio. But with Tony M's raps, he was trying to sound like everyone on the radio.

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Also, Dean on It was making fun of rap.

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donnyenglish said:

Signing his reportely $100 million contract, then going to war with his record label about a year later.

Either don't sign the contract or don't go to war. His string of yearly top 10 hits ended shortly after that.

Not the first artist to stop having hits as soon as they fought their record label. And other artists, like the Bee Gees, had already fought for and won ownership of their masters before he signed that contract.

[Edited 4/25/19 10:24am]

lurker316 said:

I agree that Prince became more preachy. He was beating you over the head with his message and it also felt like he was judging you. And I certainly understand how that turned some fans off.

.

But with all of that said, I loved the Rainbow Children. It's one of my all time favorite albums. I personally think the words are silly, but I ignore them. When I listen this (or any Prince album for that matter) I'm primarily listening for the music, not the lyrics.

.

Heck, another of my favorites is Lovesexy, which is also religous.

.

Bottom line, I'm not a religous person myself, but his religous stuff doesnt' bother me. I apprecaite Prince for his musicianship, not for his world view. And that's ok.

.

The thing is that Prince didn't care what you thought about him and what he sang or said about God, because he did it anyway, whether some liked it or not, and that is what I admired and liked about him! He had that attitude that "if you don't like what I'm singing or saying about God, then don't listen to it!" He didn't care if you bought it, listened to it, or liked it or not! If one thing that we knew about the man, is that he rolled to the beat of his own drum, and did whatever it is that he wanted to do, no matter what anyone else thought!

EmmaMcG said:

oceanblue said:

^^@EmmaMcG, as a Prince fan that also loves God, I disagree with your number 2. His loving God and not being afraid to admit it (especially being in the business that he was in)..made me love and admire him and his music even more! I loved that about him!

You're in the minority there. But despite you disagreeing with me, surely you can see that his beliefs had a negative impact on his career. The changing of lyrics, the refusal to play some of his most popular songs. Compare the lyrics of "Uptown" to "1+1+1=3". They sound like they've been written by 2 different people. As a musician, his job was to sell records. By bringing his religion into his music, he alienated a lot of fans. Therefore, his records were not going to sell as much as they had previously. Therefore, it was a mistake on his behalf to sing about theocratic orders when his fans wanted him to sing about dance, music, sex and romance. Thankfully, it's a mistake he seemed to rectify because from Musicology onwards, his religious messages were steadily dropped.

"As a musician, his job was to sell records?"....that is not how Prince lived his life or thought of himself as being a musician, I'm sure! If he wanted to just "sell records" he would have sold out a long time ago, and not just that, but this man fought the record companies every step of the way, to do things the way he wanted to them, and to hell with everyone and everything else! Prince wasn't just about selling records, he wanted his music to mean something other than that, and he accomplished and established that, no doubt! Prince didn't look at being a musician as "just a job" because it wasn't! Being a musician meant so much more to him than just that, that's why he was so committed, meticulous, and passionate about it, and everything he did!

[Edited 4/25/19 11:56am]

Yeah, this thread is essentially a "what would I have done differently if I was in Prince's shoes" discussion, LOL. I suppose the commentary will run for as long as his music is listened to, as charismatic as he was and somehow manages to form his own little iconographic imprint on our culture. He definitely touched the pulse of Wetern society and was constantly questioning it. Why did he execute the career moves that he did--was it for knowledge or ignorance--willful or innocent? A concern of feel or an outreach for profit? Which kind of compromises did he actually feel needed to be made in his endeavors? How innovative did he really mean to be with his music throughout his career? Did he have inspired visions of things that were obscure to many others and guided his hand? These are sine interesting questions to consider in that matter, but at any rate, people will chide some of the man's choices as they don't conform to their own particular values of what comprises success.

>

On the career tip, I bet he did actually consider signing that 90s Warner Brothers contract to be a mistake, upon its reexamination! Maybe shutting down his music club in the aughts' was a mistake. It's hard to balance entrepreneurship with artistic impulse. If he had pressed harder to find key people and build a team to support his cash-building enterprise, their work together in partnership could have been the crystal for growth of something bigger for his community--the NPG publishing (Inc.)--and expand deeper into the realm of entertainment industry. His spritualism kind of kicked him in other directions though, and perhaps compelled him to keep his busniess more "simple" for himself (lol--as if!) and continually invest time in reestablishing partnerships for distribution and what-have-you. He may have simply preferred that kind of activity, as better for him in his craft, to stoke creative fires, etc.--kindling mini-enterprises. With more time, he could have evolved more, I feel. I think that he could have been reaching for a new pinnacle in his business ventures.

>

On the personal tip, on the other hand, I wonder if Prince had ever ultimately considered getting married to have been a mistake? Or painting his house purple? Nah--probably not. He'd change paint schemes as he'd see fit, and I'll bet that he enjoyed the purple for most of the time.

BTW, there are no "artistic mistakes" unless you are a professional critic, of course. Shaping such kind of presumptions placing "art" in the vicinity of "mistakes" are their bread and butter.

oceanblue said:

EmmaMcG said:

oceanblue said: You're in the minority there. But despite you disagreeing with me, surely you can see that his beliefs had a negative impact on his career. The changing of lyrics, the refusal to play some of his most popular songs. Compare the lyrics of "Uptown" to "1+1+1=3". They sound like they've been written by 2 different people. As a musician, his job was to sell records. By bringing his religion into his music, he alienated a lot of fans. Therefore, his records were not going to sell as much as they had previously. Therefore, it was a mistake on his behalf to sing about theocratic orders when his fans wanted him to sing about dance, music, sex and romance. Thankfully, it's a mistake he seemed to rectify because from Musicology onwards, his religious messages were steadily dropped.

"As a musician, his job was to sell records?"....that is not how Prince lived his life or thought of himself as being a musician, I'm sure! If he wanted to just "sell records" he would have sold out a long time ago, and not just that, but this man fought the record companies every step of the way, to do things the way he wanted to them, and to hell with everyone and everything else! Prince wasn't just about selling records, he wanted his music to mean something other than that, and he accomplished and established that, no doubt! Prince didn't look at being a mus ician as "just a job" because it wasn't! Being a musician meant so much more to him than just that, that's why he was so committed, meticulous, and passionate about it, and everything he did!

[Edited 4/25/19 11:56am]

Amen

Everybody's hindsight is 20/20.

Germanegro said:

BTW, there are no "artistic mistakes" unless you are a professional critic, of course. Shaping such kind of presumptions placing "art" in the vicinity of "mistakes" are their bread and butter.

Thank you.

Germanegro said:

EmmaMcG said:

Germanegro said:

BTW, there are no "artistic mistakes" unless you are a professional critic, of course. Shaping such kind of presumptions placing "art" in the vicinity of "mistakes" are their bread and butter.

Jughead is a lot of things. "Art" is not one of them.

Your opinion and maybe the majority opinion, idk. Still doesn't make it a "mistake".

EmmaMcG said:

Germanegro said:

BTW, there are no "artistic mistakes" unless you are a professional critic, of course. Shaping such kind of presumptions placing "art" in the vicinity of "mistakes" are their bread and butter.

Jughead is a lot of things. "Art" is not one of them.

It's fun, though. I like it, except for Prince's rapping.

I don't know if it's because Prince couldn't rap, or because I knew he could sing better than anyone else I knew, and hearing him do anything less than sing was a bummer.

But still, I bop my head to "Jughead". Plus, who doesn't hink of this guy when they hear it!











BUT WHAT THE SAM HILL IS THIS?!?!?!?!?!?

poppys said:

LenguaDePlata said:

Firing Jam and Lewis. It was never going to work, but imagine if hey had stayed around and been put in charge of Paisley Park Records...

I totally agree.They could have helped Prince create the "Motown of the 80s".Imagine Jill Jones getting a kickass song like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" for her debut single,courtesy of Jam and Lewis.Instead of firing them,Prince should have encouraged them and gave them a production deal with his company.

EmmaMcG said:

poppys said:

Your opinion and maybe the majority opinion, idk. Still doesn't make it a "mistake".

If the majority of your fans make fun of one of your songs, then I'd personally call that song a mistake. You may have a different word for it and that's fine.

sure, thanks!

Vannormal said:

I think self-directing both 'Under The Cherry Moon' and 'Grafitti Bridge' to wstart with.

(Maybe better results...)

At several times in Prince's career,his ego set him up for failure.It's great to be ambitious,but a person must be aware of their limitations.They must realize that they can't do everything themselves.

Germanegro said:

oceanblue said:

"As a musician, his job was to sell records?"....that is not how Prince lived his life or thought of himself as being a musician, I'm sure! If he wanted to just "sell records" he would have sold out a long time ago, and not just that, but this man fought the record companies every step of the way, to do things the way he wanted to them, and to hell with everyone and everything else! Prince wasn't just about selling records, he wanted his music to mean something other than that, and he accomplished and established that, no doubt! Prince didn't look at being a mus ician as "just a job" because it wasn't! Being a musician meant so much more to him than just that, that's why he was so committed, meticulous, and passionate about it, and everything he did!

[Edited 4/25/19 11:56am]

Amen

Exactly...
"The judge sentenced me
2 hard labor with a knife
Making cuts 4 U'all
Keeping the party packed
Fans wall 2 wall
Eye don't care what they said -
'He don't play the hits no more
Plus eye thought he was gay.'"

Music was dude's life.

to reiterate:
Gemini raising on the seventh day
Making mad sex until you're in my arms, okay
Cause when you love somebody like that it's cool
We gots no need for shoo-be-doo-be-doo
The good life yeah we'll be livin'
Pushing up on every freak this side of heaven
Come on, come one, shake it, come on
You know I be's the one with the funky music, hun
And I'm laying fat claims to the booty
Fat claim to the new power booty
Keeping the crowd moving ya'll
Is my one and only duty
Oooh-wee
With the New Power Soul

Need we invoke the Lyrics of "7" (singing a song so bold - Biblical)

Or How about the revisit to "reproduction of the new breed leader, stand up - ORGANIZE!" from SEXUALITY to THE RAINBOW CHILDREN?

Be what it may and however people stand... God and Music (and women) appeared to be Prince's life.

Purple Mistakes:
Purple and Gold

1999 The New Master

Crystal Ball (cd set, not originally planned album) though I enjoyed some of it.

I don't know the rest of his deals behind the scenes.. But I'm thankful for his tunes and his emotional/spiritual uplifting and guidance. ☺♫♫♫►n da☼ ♥

[Edited 4/25/19 14:46pm]

[Edited 4/25/19 15:17pm]

poppys said:

lurker316 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

The 90's WAS NOT Prince's(r.i.p.) first time doing rap. I get SO tired of people saying that. "All The Critics Love U in NY, Irresistible Bit--,"Dead On It",'Bob George','HouseQuake' etc. were ALL rap songs. Nor was Tony M his introduction Into rap. "Now" & "Acknowledge Me" were both rap songs also and the list goes on.

.

Each of the songs you list were experiemental. They were Prince testing the waters and trying to do his own thing. He was trying to set himself apart from the pack.

.

The rap Prince put out in the early '90s was different. With his '90s rap, he was playing catch up, chasing a trend, trying to make himself relevant and popular in a certain demographic. He was tying to join the pack rather than distance himself from it.

.

To put it another word, with songs like All the Critics, Irresistable Bitch, and Bob George, he was trying to sound like on one else on the radio. But with Tony M's raps, he was trying to sound like everyone on the radio.

.

Also, Dean on It was making fun of rap.

.