ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Perfect

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

He's been clowned for decades, but thank God for Larry Graham. He made Prince grow up. Or else we would have him still acting childish in concert at 40 plus years trying to be some overthehill sex symbol act caricature of his former self. Even Jagger stopped that mess in later years (after becoming said caricature) and focused more on the music and musicianship. Madonna grew up too. Not saying that Prince (and Jagger/Madonna etc) gave up sexuality in the art, but it was matured and not so primary lascivious or forced. Larry brought us The Truth, TRC, Xenophobia, C-Note, Musicology, SST etc eras. God knows we would have had to hear Pussy Control or some embarrassing shit from a middle aged genius instead of the some of the other inspired works in the new millenium.

.

[Edited 5/23/19 8:32am]

rdhull said:

He's been clowned for decades, but thank God for Larry Graham. He made Prince grow up. Or else we would have him still acting childish in concert at 40 plus years trying to be some overthehill sex symbol act caricature of his former self. Even Jagger stopped that mess in later years (after becoming said caricature) and focused more on the music and musicianship. Madonna grew up too. Not saying that Prince (and Jagger/Madonna etc) gave up sexuality in the art, but it was matured and not so primary lascivious or forced. Larry brought us The Truth, TRC, Xenophobia, C-Note, Musicology, SST etc eras. God knows we would have had to hear Pussy Control or some embarrassing shit from a middle aged genius instead of the some of the other inspired works in the new millenium.

.

[Edited 5/23/19 8:32am]

I have to disagree. That's quite unfair to give Larry that much credit. After P suffered as much loss as he did between late 90 to early 2000, it's very possible everything he was meant to become was already there with or without Larry, jmo.

Larry took advantage of Prince's delicate state of mind at that time.

roxy831 said:

rdhull said:

He's been clowned for decades, but thank God for Larry Graham. He made Prince grow up. Or else we would have him still acting childish in concert at 40 plus years trying to be some overthehill sex symbol act caricature of his former self. Even Jagger stopped that mess in later years (after becoming said caricature) and focused more on the music and musicianship. Madonna grew up too. Not saying that Prince (and Jagger/Madonna etc) gave up sexuality in the art, but it was matured and not so primary lascivious or forced. Larry brought us The Truth, TRC, Xenophobia, C-Note, Musicology, SST etc eras. God knows we would have had to hear Pussy Control or some embarrassing shit from a middle aged genius instead of the some of the other inspired works in the new millenium.

.

[Edited 5/23/19 8:32am]

I have to disagree. That's quite unfair to give Larry that much credit. After P suffered as much loss as he did between late 90 to early 2000, it's very possible everything he was meant to become was already there with or without Larry, jmo.

Well, with how most people have theorized in making Larry the pariah that created a so called downfall of the lascivious, free thinking, creative,\ Prince, he must have been the facilitator.

rdhull said:

violetcrush said:

rdhull said:

Well, with how most people have theorized in making Larry the pariah that created a so called downfall of the lascivious, free thinking, creative,\ Prince, he must have been the facilitator.

I don’t think it was necessarily a calculated move on Larry’s part.

I dont either, others do. And thanks for the history lesson I already knew.

rdhull said:

violetcrush said:

rdhull said:

I dont either, others do. And thanks for the history lesson I already knew.

I disagree though, with your thought that Prince needed Larry to help him “grow up” and act more maturely. If you look at Emancipation (pre Larry) Prince was already moving away from the angry/overtly sexual songs and sharing a more mature side. I think his expecting a child changed his perspective on life, age and growing up. He talked about it during interviews. I think what Larry did was influence him to take things to the extreme in his life and with his music. He probably would have decided on his own not to continue doing P Control or Darling Nikki, but he would not have been preaching in his songs or changing lyrics to classics like DMSR.

copy, print, and save

The feminist anthem, Pussy Control, would sound great in today's climate. P was so far ahead of the game, fools still ain't caught up.

PliablyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

PliablyPurple said:

The feminist anthem, Pussy Control, would sound great in today's climate. P was so far ahead of the game, fools still ain't caught up.

Yes and no. Depends on what you believe to he feminism. The way Prince portrayed women on stage (Vanity 6, Diamond & Pearl, Mayte) often contradicted the traditional feminist message, which is that women should not have to be objectified or use their sexuality/looks to get ahead or to persuade a man to do something for them. It was always a sexual thing with Prince and women on stage.

Well, let's first recognize, like Pussy Control did, that feminism was born to address gender imbalance in how women were treated by society at large. Evolving, sexuality most certainly becomes a part of the feminist movement. With that in mind, I will say that "tradition," often times has ugly faults of its own and I would never align myself with a "feminist" movement that crosses into slut shaming, usually because that pov does not recognize agency in situations in which the woman possesses it - which in itself I find ironic since I thought that's what we were fighting for in the first fucking place.

PliablyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

PliablyPurple said:

Well, let's first recognize, like Pussy Control did, that feminism was born to address gender imbalance in how women were treated by society at large. Evolving, sexuality most certainly becomes a part of the feminist movement. With that in mind, I will say that "tradition," often times has ugly faults of its own and I would never align myself with a "feminist" movement that crosses into slut shaming, usually because that pov does not recognize agency in situations in which the woman possesses it - which in itself I find ironic since I thought that's what we were fighting for in the first fucking place.

Yes, but we’ve also been fighting for women to be taken seriously for years - recognized for their intellect and ideas and not just their physical attributes. It’s a long and complex discussion because there are varying viewpoints on what empowers women vs what sets them back in terms of equality with men.

Well, a little context is in order. A little t and a in rock n roll is (should be) nothing, but sure, you don't want to go to the board meeting in lingerie. Which, by the way, - it shouldn't be on women to have to hide who they want to be (again, in the appropriate context - we are talking about rock music here) because men can't act civilized. That is one shitty barometer to use for defining progress. How about making it an empowerment v/s man's shitty reaction to women thing instead of "what sets women back in terms of equality with men"?

PliablyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

PliablyPurple said:

Well, a little context is in order. A little t and a in rock n roll is (should be) nothing, but sure, you don't want to go to the board meeting in lingerie. Which, by the way, - it shouldn't be on women to have to hide who they want to be (again, in the appropriate context - we are talking about rock music here) because men can't act civilized. That is one shitty barometer to use for defining progress. How about making it an empowerment v/s man's shitty reaction to women thing instead of "what sets women back in terms of equality with men"?

But men are human, so when they see a woman on stage half dressed, gyrating, and bending over above them on stage (a la Mayte with Prince) what reaction are they supposed to have other than a smile and an erection??

Jesus, that's one low bar for your expectations on what it means to be a man. A man can't see a beautiful woman onstage @ a rock show without getting an erection? I say again, "feminists" of a certain persuasion - ask more of your men.

Re: your Wendy anecdote: And that's a worthy fight. Fighting against mistreatment of women in the workplace is a noble battle.

PliablyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

PliablyPurple said:

Jesus, that's one low bar for your expectations on what it means to be a man. A man can't see a beautiful woman onstage @ a rock show without getting an erection? I say again, "feminists" of a certain persuasion - ask more of your men.

Re: your Wendy anecdote: And that's a worthy fight. Fighting against mistreatment of women in the workplace is a noble battle.

From Q Magazine May 1995 - describing Mayte on stage: * “What it really is, is a huge tease. When O(+>requests Mayte (who errs on the side of gorgeous) to come to the lip of the stage, bend over, grip her heels and, in his words, “shake your moneymaker for the interest of the audience,not only does she do it, but she smiles while she’s doing it. “It’s terrible,” says one industry insider the following day. “You leave with an erection.” “ * Also, watch the “18 & Over” video... [Edited 5/23/19 20:44pm]

You need to quit.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Slut shaming hyperbole from an insider whose gender is not specified. It's like I don't even have to respond and you make my argument for me, thanks.

PliablyPurple said:

PeteSilas said:

people are funny, i learned growing up to take people's faith with a grain of salt, i still remember church women calling me to do work at their house and asking me to take off my shirt and shit. It used to confuse and intrigue me, still does but it's like you're dealing with more than one person when you're dealing with a religious person. Maybe that's how we all are, we all have different personalities that gnash and fight each other. Prince was a perfect example of that even before he went jw. He didn't change all that much, you go back to 1985 and there he is onstage being admonished by god for showing his ass and acting pimpish. Howard Bloom had an interesting take; that by the end of the eighties, the god voice, which he said was his father's voice, won and prince went to that side over the wild, young kid he was.

Warning: this has nothing to do with JW. Well. Your post caught my eye. Amused to think of religious women asking you to take your shirt off while you're mowing the lawn! Brought me back around to Prince and his mum and something about him reading pornographic books/mags she had and then, all the while that she was 7thDayAdventist. And my thoughts swung to someone's comment above about the rigid/strict demands of 7thDayAdventists, which I know not a whit about, but assume it has some restrictions regarding sexuality. Then, back around to PRN, his sexuality on stage, his appeal to women. Anyway. I've been enjoying this whole thread. And, I'm only on page 3 or so.

Which actions by Jehovah Witness are 'Unusual Actions'?

Every Single One.

violetcrush said:

Morgaine said:

Lol @ "and she smiles while she's doing it...it's terrible." What ya gonna do about peeps stuck in an Andy Griffith world tryin' to appreciate Prince? It is kinda cute, though, to see the struggle, the lack of recognition. It's too bad it's such a dangerous precedent to set for society.

itsjustaroundthecorner said: