OperatingThetan said:

violetcrush said:

You said you find it odd that TMZ would have been at the Moline airport, right? I don’t think someone from TMZ was physically there. Someone sent them the footage, or they were able to obtain the airport video. I thought the video of the landing was shown after the initial story broke. * If anything, beside all of the attention - I think Prince would have been most angry about the video footage.

The CCTV video footage is from a distance, of poor quality and shows barely anything. If other sources had not placed Prince at the scene he would've had plausible deniability regards the footage as he is not at all discernable. All that can really be seen is a plane and an ambulance. It remains conjecture perhaps, but it has been reported that Prince experienced an earlier OD incident in 2010 and was assisted by NPG band members. This incident obviously never reached the press, which may have accounted for Prince's surprise on this occasion, though an emergency in the air is obviously more public. Prince had undergone hip surgery and at least one other hospital visit (in 2013/14 as reported by Kirk in the police investigation files) and none of these had reached the press and garnered any public reaction either.

Usually planes are identified by call numbers and there would not have been anyway for anyone to know that a call number coming in for an emergency landing was Prince.

OperatingThetan said:

all that matters to me was he was back singing what the fuck he wanted to sing by the end, like a champion, he came through.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

all that matters to me was he was back singing what the fuck he wanted to sing by the end, like a champion, he came through.

YES! And I gotta admit, those last two shows in Atlanta were great. Even Prince said they were the best of the tour, and usually he always said the "next one" when it came to which show was the best.

Sorry, everyone, for getting off topic.

As for him being JW, I don't think he ever fully gave up his core beliefs. In 2009, he released LotusFlow3r which has From the Lotus and Back 2 the Lotus. The Lotus is a very significant Buddhist symbol. And this is when he was still with Bri, who was a strong JW. Love Like Jazz would have been risque for the Kingdom Hall. In 2010, he was releasing Act of God, 2006 it was The Word. I think he wanted a deeper understanding of the Bible and liked how deeply the JWs studied the Bible and tried to live by the Bible, which would appeal to him, but I don't think he every fully agreed with everything related to that denomination. And I think the Eastern teachings and his earlier Christian upbringing probably remained at the heart of him.

benni said:

violetcrush said:

benni said:

YES! And I gotta admit, those last two shows in Atlanta were great. Even Prince said they were the best of the tour, and usually he always said the "next one" when it came to which show was the best.

Sorry, everyone, for getting off topic.

As for him being JW, I don't think he ever fully gave up his core beliefs. In 2009, he released LotusFlow3r which has From the Lotus and Back 2 the Lotus. The Lotus is a very significant Buddhist symbol. And this is when he was still with Bri, who was a strong JW. Love Like Jazz would have been risque for the Kingdom Hall. In 2010, he was releasing Act of God, 2006 it was The Word. I think he wanted a deeper understanding of the Bible and liked how deeply the JWs studied the Bible and tried to live by the Bible, which would appeal to him, but I don't think he every fully agreed with everything related to that denomination. And I think the Eastern teachings and his earlier Christian upbringing probably remained at the heart of him.

Yes, no question he seemed to be hard-core with JW from 1998 to about 2011ish, but he definitely seemed to veer away from it - or at least the preaching - the last several years of his life.

I don't think he really was "hard-core" with it. I think there may have been a couple of years, around the time that he released TRC in 2001, but I kind of saw it like with the women he dated. Once he gave them an album, he usually moved on. From about 2002 onwards, I saw glimpses of the old Prince, though, I think he did try hard to remain with the JW faith, I just don't think he was completely invested in it emotionally and mentally after that. I think he enjoyed the Bible studies and the debates, and he stuck around for that. I know he said in an interview that when he started talking about the Bible, people suddenly had other things to do and would run away. I think he enjoyed talking about religion, about God, about his beliefs, and the JWs gave him an outlet for that.

benni said:

people are funny, i learned growing up to take people's faith with a grain of salt, i still remember church women calling me to do work at their house and asking me to take off my shirt and shit. It used to confuse and intrigue me, still does but it's like you're dealing with more than one person when you're dealing with a religious person. Maybe that's how we all are, we all have different personalities that gnash and fight each other. Prince was a perfect example of that even before he went jw. He didn't change all that much, you go back to 1985 and there he is onstage being admonished by god for showing his ass and acting pimpish. Howard Bloom had an interesting take; that by the end of the eighties, the god voice, which he said was his father's voice, won and prince went to that side over the wild, young kid he was.

I should say, my first priorty when I listen for music is to listen for good music, not just with prince but anyone.

[Edited 5/11/19 16:36pm]

violetcrush said:

benni said:

I don't think he really was "hard-core" with it. I think there may have been a couple of years, around the time that he released TRC in 2001, but I kind of saw it like with the women he dated. Once he gave them an album, he usually moved on. From about 2002 onwards, I saw glimpses of the old Prince, though, I think he did try hard to remain with the JW faith, I just don't think he was completely invested in it emotionally and mentally after that. I think he enjoyed the Bible studies and the debates, and he stuck around for that. I know he said in an interview that when he started talking about the Bible, people suddenly had other things to do and would run away. I think he enjoyed talking about religion, about God, about his beliefs, and the JWs gave him an outlet for that.

He was “hard core” prior to 2001 though. The preaching started back in 1997/1998 with Larry Graham. I think by 2002 he knew he was alienating many fans with his JW focused music and discussions. Musicology was his way back into mainstream music and re-connecting with his larger fan base with the tour. He was still very much into JW though - just quieter about it. As late as 2009 he publicly stated (during an interview with Tavis Smiley) that he was a Jehovah’s Witness. I believe he also thanked “Jehovah God” first in all or most of his award acceptance speeches from the late 90’s through 2010.

I don't know that it started that early. I found the Love4OneAnother website in June or July of 1998, and it was more spiritual than it was JW related. And even One Song was released 12/31/99 and that was definitely NOT a JW related theme. It ended with the song "I Am the Universe":


I am the universe
The sun, the moon and sea
I am the energy
4 that is what I believe
I can be contradiction
Cuz that is all I see
But I am the universe
And the universe is me
I am the one song (Ah yes)
And that one song is free
All things come from this one song (Yes they do, uh)
The garden and the tree
If everything, everything is present
What is will always be
This here is the first and the last song
And all that come between

When language falls like a wounded soldier
And it's covered by the sea
All the sadness
All these unanswered questions
Keep me company
(Company, company, company come 2 me, come 2 me please!)
Here at the center of it all
(I know)
I know that U can only come from me

(I am the universe)
Yes it will, oh, yes it will
(The sun, the moon and sea)
Where else is it gonna come from but me?
(I am the universe)
Oh my, my my my my my my my universe
(The universe is me)
(I am the universe)
(The sun, the moon and sea)
(I am the universe)
(We are the universe) {x2}
(The universe is me)
One truth (One truth)
One song (One song)
One energy

[Edited 5/11/19 14:33pm]

[Edited 5/11/19 14:46pm]

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

That's what I said.

You said you find it odd that TMZ would have been at the Moline airport, right? I don’t think someone from TMZ was physically there. Someone sent them the footage, or they were able to obtain the airport video. I thought the video of the landing was shown after the initial story broke. * If anything, beside all of the attention - I think Prince would have been most angry about the video footage.

PennyPurple said:

TMZ was following him for a reason. The Blind Item that was published probably started tipping off the gossip sites. I don't believe the pilots or the flight crew tipped off TMZ, in fact when the paramedics arrived they didn't know who it was and was mistaken for a lady until a paramedic recognized him. Maybe the gossip sites were monitering him because he had cancelled a couple of shows. But it is rather odd that TMZ would be in Moline at just the right time. And it could have been just a regular person who videoed it and found out later it was Prince and sold the video to TMZ.

I think there are photos out there of Prince on the stretcher on the tarmac. I'm sure I've seen them somewhere they were taken at a distance. Things are a little crazy right now but when I have time I'll try to track those down.

benni said:

violetcrush said:

benni said:

I don't know that it started that early. I found the Love4OneAnother website in June or July of 1998, and it was more spiritual than it was JW related. And even One Song was released 12/31/99 and that was definitely NOT a JW related theme. It ended with the song "I Am the Universe":


I am the universe
The sun, the moon and sea
I am the energy
4 that is what I believe
I can be contradiction
Cuz that is all I see
But I am the universe
And the universe is me
I am the one song (Ah yes)
And that one song is free
All things come from this one song (Yes they do, uh)
The garden and the tree
If everything, everything is present
What is will always be
This here is the first and the last song
And all that come between

When language falls like a wounded soldier
And it's covered by the sea
All the sadness
All these unanswered questions
Keep me company
(Company, company, company come 2 me, come 2 me please!)
Here at the center of it all
(I know)
I know that U can only come from me

(I am the universe)
Yes it will, oh, yes it will
(The sun, the moon and sea)
Where else is it gonna come from but me?
(I am the universe)
Oh my, my my my my my my my universe
(The universe is me)
(I am the universe)
(The sun, the moon and sea)
(I am the universe)
(We are the universe) {x2}
(The universe is me)
One truth (One truth)
One song (One song)
One energy

[Edited 5/11/19 14:33pm]

[Edited 5/11/19 14:46pm]

He had begun Bible sessions with Larry Graham in ‘97. Larry was JW, so he would have been “witnessing” to Prince and teaching him the ways of the JW faith. Watch the June 1998 interview on the Sinbad show with Prince and Larry. It’s clear that Prince is still learning the faith but heavily into it. He tries to explain the JW belief about Christ dying on a stake with his hands above his head instead of outstretched arms on a cross. He starts to discuss it and then defers to Larry to give more detail. Larry gives a well spoken but very general statement about their Bible studies. Prince then began talking about “The Truth” in many interviews.

I'm not saying that he wasn't studying with Larry, I just don't think he was "hard-core" at that time, because if he were, One Song, would not have been released. That would have been considered heresy to the JW faith.

benni said:

Nothing

violetcrush said:

i'm sure you meant, "I would die 4 you". He meant those words to us I'm afraid, i was watching something yesterday where a man was talking about the people like crazy horse, charley patton and others who could see more in life and were trying to bring us more but had to be alone to do it, i thought of prince.

violetcrush said:

benni said:

I'm not saying that he wasn't studying with Larry, I just don't think he was "hard-core" at that time, because if he were, One Song, would not have been released. That would have been considered heresy to the JW faith.

But with One Song you are assuming the first person lyrics are Prince speaking about himself right? However, the song may have been written from God’s point of view, or as God speaking. I actually think that makes more sense as he would not have put himself in a “higher power” position during that time. I think the only time he did that was in 1999 - “I’m your Messiah and you’re the reason why..” - which he later changed to “He’s your Messiah..”

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

benni said:

I'm not saying that he wasn't studying with Larry, I just don't think he was "hard-core" at that time, because if he were, One Song, would not have been released. That would have been considered heresy to the JW faith.

But with One Song you are assuming the first person lyrics are Prince speaking about himself right? However, the song may have been written from God’s point of view, or as God speaking. I actually think that makes more sense as he would not have put himself in a “higher power” position during that time. I think the only time he did that was in 1999 - “I’m your Messiah and you’re the reason why..” - which he later changed to “He’s your Messiah..”

You'd have to look at it in context of the spoken intro. He wasn't speaking from God's perspective. The final words, and there are almost 6 minutes of spoken word, before he begins to sing "I Am the Univere" are these (And this is very much not a JW doctrine):


"There was only love in an all knowing state,
B4 the fall
The worst thing u can do is give up your God-given right to choose,
4 in it - u can choose 2 not choose
Therein is the final judgment
The illusion ceases and u awaken from ur dream
Now the healing begins
With an all knowing mind made in God's image
u can create as ur creator - God intended
With love, honor, and respect
4 every living thing in the universe
Seperation ceases
And we all become ONE being
Singing the One Song"

Then the music starts, and he starts singing "I am the universe..."

And even with I Would Die 4 U, he was still singing it that way at that time. It wasn't until later in the 2000s that he changed up that lyric.

violetcrush said:

benni said:

I'm not saying that he wasn't studying with Larry, I just don't think he was "hard-core" at that time, because if he were, One Song, would not have been released. That would have been considered heresy to the JW faith.

But with One Song you are assuming the first person lyrics are Prince speaking about himself right? However, the song may have been written from God’s point of view, or as God speaking. I actually think that makes more sense as he would not have put himself in a “higher power” position during that time. I think the only time he did that was in 1999 - “I’m your Messiah and you’re the reason why..” - which he later changed to “He’s your Messiah..”

False... he changed it during the Purple Rain tour because of certain journalists assumed he had a Messiah complex becauise of the lyrics (which were written in the person of Jesus).

he absolutely had a messiah complex as any prototypical rock star would. I don't know who had it worse, him Michael or Elvis. They all thought they were some sort of deity, and in a way, maybe they were.

TrcikyChristopher said:

violetcrush said:

benni said: But with One Song you are assuming the first person lyrics are Prince speaking about himself right? However, the song may have been written from God’s point of view, or as God speaking. I actually think that makes more sense as he would not have put himself in a “higher power” position during that time. I think the only time he did that was in 1999 - “I’m your Messiah and you’re the reason why..” - which he later changed to “He’s your Messiah..”

False... he changed it during the Purple Rain tour because of certain journalists assumed he had a Messiah complex becauise of the lyrics (which were written in the person of Jesus).

Did he change it during the Purple Rain tour?

I didn't remember ever hearing him sing it "He's ur Messiah" until later (after the 1999). But, my first concert was in 98 with a Hit N Run tour when he was billed as The One (Collinsville, Illinois) and he didn't perform it then. Hmm, come to think of it, I saw him like 7 times after that and I don't think he ever played it at any of the concerts I went to until the Atlanta shows, and I remember thinking, "Huh, that's different." I guess I was used to the recorded version and the movie.

[Edited 5/11/19 23:21pm]

benni said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

False... he changed it during the Purple Rain tour because of certain journalists assumed he had a Messiah complex becauise of the lyrics (which were written in the person of Jesus).

Did he change it during the Purple Rain tour?

I didn't remember ever hearing him sing it "He's ur Messiah" until later (after the 1999). But, my first concert was in 98 with a Hit N Run tour when he was billed as The One (Collinsville, Illinois) and he didn't perform it then. Hmm, come to think of it, I saw him like 7 times after that and I don't think he ever played it at any of the concerts I went to until the Atlanta shows, and I remember thinking, "Huh, that's different." I guess I was used to the recorded version and the movie.

[Edited 5/11/19 23:21pm]

i think he say's "he's your messiah" in the syracuse vid, but it's a moot point, he said what he meant the first time and it was artistically relevant, sacrilige be damned, he sacrificed a lot for his art primarily but also for us.

violetcrush said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

there were the rumours that in those years he demanded people address him as messiah, I wonder if that's true?

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

there were the rumours that in those years he demanded people address him as messiah, I wonder if that's true?

I really doubt that, but there were people who knew him and stated that they felt he thought he was the messiah. Not sure I believe that either. I think he did feel that he was here for more of a purpose more than just to make music - at least during certain times in his life.

i remember someone being quotes saying that "he thinks he's related to god somehow" and dez once said that started from the fawning that his first keyboardist did over, him, sorry, can't think of her name at the moment. He wouldn't be alone, Elvis thought he had healing powers, being a star is heady stuff, it really is.

PeteSilas said: