2004Fan said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Strive said:

Prince was a weird guy. He openly talked about 'augmenting' his faith from other sources, which is very frowned upon by the Witnesses. He still showed up to Memorial Of Jesus' Death ceremony they do yearly and (probably) still wrote big checks to The Watch Tower. He seemingly had no connection to his local congregation outside of Graham. The only service he did was so it could be publicized.

There's alot of misconceptions against the Witnesses in this thread, which isn't worth going into, but it's a shame that Prince couldn't fully give himself over to that life. I can empathize with his struggle, especially since it seemed like he couldn't (or wouldn't) accept counsel from his brothers and sisters.

I may be delving a little too deep, but it's not as cut and dry as anyone is portraying it to be. Prince had issues not only with the "new light" about Paradise which was divulged sometime after Lotus (not exactly sure), but he had more pressing health issues with his hips and other problems.

The JW forbade him from a full hip replacement, so he settled with a "repair" that didn't fix the issue but made it a little more bareable. Add that with other issues later, he was relying more and more on pain medication, listening to not only JW's who forbade other procedures, but because he was so spiritually minded, he listened to people who were somewhat of the same mind but lacked basic common sense and gave him very unsage advice. hm. He asked for clarification from the JW elders regarding their beliefs and they gave him none. By the time everything got worse, he started slowly pulling away from those same spiritually minded folks altogether, including JW's because he became severely disillusioned due to what was happening. It was too late. There was more going on - allegedly.

I believe you Trciky and I want to know more.

TrcikyChristopher said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I've said this years ago and not a lot of people believed me or paid attention.

You sure did. I heard you then, spoke with you, and I'm here listening now. Keep speaking please.

ladygirl99 said:

Having actual talent, dressing uniquely and exhibiting some degree of self-autonomy and individual thought always struck me as unusual for him being a JW. I don't know how much door-knocking he did I vaguely remember some photo evidence of it, but I heard he would knock with his high-heel just for kicks (no pun intended).

TrcikyChristopher said:

OperatingThetan said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I may be delving a little too deep, but it's not as cut and dry as anyone is portraying it to be. Prince had issues not only with the "new light" about Paradise which was divulged sometime after Lotus (not exactly sure), but he had more pressing health issues with his hips and other problems.

The JW forbade him from a full hip replacement, so he settled with a "repair" that didn't fix the issue but made it a little more bareable. Add that with other issues later, he was relying more and more on pain medication, listening to not only JW's who forbade other procedures, but because he was so spiritually minded, he listened to people who were somewhat of the same mind but lacked basic common sense and gave him very unsage advice. hm. He asked for clarification from the JW elders regarding their beliefs and they gave him none. By the time everything got worse, he started slowly pulling away from those same spiritually minded folks altogether, including JW's because he became severely disillusioned due to what was happening. It was too late. There was more going on - allegedly.

[Edited 4/29/19 21:18pm]

In terms of surgery, what is forbidden for Jehovah's Witnesses is transfusions of whole blood. It is not the surgery or procedures in and of themselves, but whether a blood transfusion would be likely or necessary.

Correct, but that's pnly part of the picture.

TrcikyChristopher said:

I may be delving a little too deep, but it's not as cut and dry as anyone is portraying it to be. Prince had issues not only with the "new light" about Paradise which was divulged sometime after Lotus (not exactly sure), but he had more pressing health issues with his hips and other problems.

The JW forbade him from a full hip replacement, so he settled with a "repair" that didn't fix the issue but made it a little more bareable. Add that with other issues later, he was relying more and more on pain medication, listening to not only JW's who forbade other procedures, but because he was so spiritually minded, he listened to people who were somewhat of the same mind but lacked basic common sense and gave him very unsage advice. hm. He asked for clarification from the JW elders regarding their beliefs and they gave him none. By the time everything got worse, he started slowly pulling away from those same spiritually minded folks altogether, including JW's because he became severely disillusioned due to what was happening. It was too late. There was more going on - allegedly.

I already explained how the "new light" thing isn't true but there are documented cases of bloodless hip replacements. It's not impossible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/24318363

If the more going on is the rumors of him having some sort of early-onset dementia near the end, that's a big blindspot in the JW religion. They don't talk about that sort of thing anywhere and there's no comfort for the people facing that dilemma.

[Edited 4/30/19 13:53pm]

embmmusic said:

Strive said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

I already explained how the "new light" thing isn't true but there are documented cases of bloodless hip replacements. It's not impossible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/24318363

If the more going on is the rumors of him having some sort of early-onset dementia near the end, that's big blindspot in the JW religion. They don't talk about that sort of thing anywhere and there's no comfort for the people facing that dilemma.

It's absolutely true regarding the 144,000.

https://carm.org/new-ligh...watchtower

This is, in part, what made him go to the head elders in Brooklyn.

Regarding his hip issue, at the time of his surgery, he opted not to do the replacement under the counseling of JW. 'm not saying he couldn't have done it, I'm saying he chose not to under counseling.

According to what I was told, dementia was not an issue. I was told there were underlying issues outside of his hip problems that put his pain medication usage into overdrive starting in 2012/2013. All, again, having to do with his beliefs and wanting to adhere to them, even if it was causing him harm because at the time, he truly believed he would live forever. The conversations with the elders left him disillusioned at best, but by the time he walked away quietly, his issues got worse. That brought along the previously mentioned "spiritually minded people". They were more in line with his SDA upbringing and believed in faith healing and things of that sort. Prince pushed them away as well once he realized he needed serious medical intervention.

Everything that I've said over the past few years has slowly been alluded to or outright admitted by people who really knew what was going on. Eventually, the whole story will come out.

jdcxc said:

embmmusic said:

Plus the whole BS about trying to get Wendy and Lisa to renounce their homosexuality. As much as I love the music, I'll always be pissed at him for that shit.

Agree that the JW conversion was problematic, but I don’t believe this. Wasn’t it something Wendy “heard” Prince had said through a third person? Anyone know what Hairdresser Kim wrote about P moving away from JWs? And I know her credibility is sketchy.

Kim pretty much said what I said without going into details because, quite honestly, she probably wasn't really in the loop as much as she says.

Oh, and that Wendy and Lisa story is true. This was around 98/99. It was Larry's idea, but P backed off on it because he realized how ridiculous it was. That's one of the reasons why he worked with Wendy in 2004. As it's been stated on here before, Prince saw the BS early but tried to stick it out, at least to keep his friendship with Larry intact since he thought so highly of him. He saw Larry as a father figure.

[Edited 4/30/19 14:33pm]

TrcikyChristopher said:

Strive said:

I already explained how the "new light" thing isn't true but there are documented cases of bloodless hip replacements. It's not impossible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/24318363

If the more going on is the rumors of him having some sort of early-onset dementia near the end, that's big blindspot in the JW religion. They don't talk about that sort of thing anywhere and there's no comfort for the people facing that dilemma.

It's absolutely true regarding the 144,000.

https://carm.org/new-ligh...watchtower

This is, in part, what made him go to the head elders in Brooklyn.

Regarding his hip issue, at the time of his surgery, he opted not to do the replacement under the counseling of JW. 'm not saying he couldn't have done it, I'm saying he chose not to under counseling.

According to what I was told, dementia was not an issue. I was told there were underlying issues outside of his hip problems that put his pain medication usage into overdrive starting in 2012/2013. All, again, having to do with his beliefs and wanting to adhere to them, even if it was causing him harm because at the time, he truly believed he would live forever. The conversations with the elders left him disillusioned at best, but by the time he walked away quietly, his issues got worse. That brought along the previously mentioned "spiritually minded people". They were more in line with his SDA upbringing and believed in faith healing and things of that sort. Prince pushed them away as well once he realized he needed serious medical intervention.

Everything that I've said over the past few years has slowly been alluded to or outright admitted by people who really knew what was going on. Eventually, the whole story will come out.

Again

.

.

So I'm not trying to say that Prince didn't have a falling out with the earthly organization or that your general point is wrong but the details seem off.

.

The governing body is different than regular elders. The JWs aren't doctorphobic like SDA or Christian Science. I can't understand why the organization would discourage him from getting hip replacement surgery if he could do it bloodless. With his resources it shouldn't have been a problem. That link I posted said it only had a 3% mortality rate.

.

And I hope you're right about the dementia thing. Anna Fantastic said a family member mentioned it to her and alot what happened in his later life would make sense if that was the case. But I wouldn't wish that on anybody. That's a horrific thing to look down and, like I said, the JWs have no answer for that. Search the site, talk to the brothers, there's nothing.

[Edited 4/30/19 15:10pm]

TrcikyChristopher said:

Strive said:

I already explained how the "new light" thing isn't true but there are documented cases of bloodless hip replacements. It's not impossible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/24318363

If the more going on is the rumors of him having some sort of early-onset dementia near the end, that's big blindspot in the JW religion. They don't talk about that sort of thing anywhere and there's no comfort for the people facing that dilemma.

It's absolutely true regarding the 144,000.

https://carm.org/new-ligh...watchtower

This is, in part, what made him go to the head elders in Brooklyn.

Regarding his hip issue, at the time of his surgery, he opted not to do the replacement under the counseling of JW. 'm not saying he couldn't have done it, I'm saying he chose not to under counseling.

According to what I was told, dementia was not an issue. I was told there were underlying issues outside of his hip problems that put his pain medication usage into overdrive starting in 2012/2013. All, again, having to do with his beliefs and wanting to adhere to them, even if it was causing him harm because at the time, he truly believed he would live forever. The conversations with the elders left him disillusioned at best, but by the time he walked away quietly, his issues got worse. That brought along the previously mentioned "spiritually minded people". They were more in line with his SDA upbringing and believed in faith healing and things of that sort. Prince pushed them away as well once he realized he needed serious medical intervention.

Everything that I've said over the past few years has slowly been alluded to or outright admitted by people who really knew what was going on. Eventually, the whole story will come out.

Hope anyone coming to that conclusion can find a medical specialist who can give quality guidance for decisions and possible treatment. Was P able to connect with such a person?

[Edited 4/30/19 19:25pm]

rednblue said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

It's absolutely true regarding the 144,000.

https://carm.org/new-ligh...watchtower

This is, in part, what made him go to the head elders in Brooklyn.

Regarding his hip issue, at the time of his surgery, he opted not to do the replacement under the counseling of JW. 'm not saying he couldn't have done it, I'm saying he chose not to under counseling.

According to what I was told, dementia was not an issue. I was told there were underlying issues outside of his hip problems that put his pain medication usage into overdrive starting in 2012/2013. All, again, having to do with his beliefs and wanting to adhere to them, even if it was causing him harm because at the time, he truly believed he would live forever. The conversations with the elders left him disillusioned at best, but by the time he walked away quietly, his issues got worse. That brought along the previously mentioned "spiritually minded people". They were more in line with his SDA upbringing and believed in faith healing and things of that sort. Prince pushed them away as well once he realized he needed serious medical intervention.

Everything that I've said over the past few years has slowly been alluded to or outright admitted by people who really knew what was going on. Eventually, the whole story will come out.

Hope anyone coming to that conclusion can find a medical specialist who can give quality guidance for decisions and possible treatment. Was P able to connect with such a person?

[Edited 4/30/19 19:25pm]

Yes. He was getting help for some things but needed intervention on others.

For the person who finally got him to agree to get surgery it was a struggle. Constant fighting. And that had nothing to do with the JW.

Prince always had a hybrid faith between the spiritual, religious, and metaphysical. Beang a JW was just one piece of the bigger pie.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:15am]

leadline said:

Prince always had a hybrid faith between the spiritual, religious, and metaphysical. Beang a JW was just one piece of the bigger pie.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:15am]

Good interpretation. He definitely went through phases, although the JW period was quite a long stretch of time. I think spiritual and questioning things until the late 80's, then deeper into the Christian faith from '88-91, then many songs about sex and more sex from '92-95 , then the start of the JW period in '96/97 through 2010-11, then he seemed to start branching out into the metaphysical piece of the pie toward the end of his life.

*

He seemed to be into the "Third Eye" concept in the few years before his passing:

*

The third eye refers to the gate that leads to inner realms and spaces of higher consciousness. In New Age spirituality, the third eye often symbolizes a state of enlightenment or the evocation of mental images having deeply personal spiritual or psychological significance.

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Larry was a close friend and I’m sure he wanted to help him. He also had Larry on stage with him many times in the late 90’s. Larry moved to MN at his request.

The weird thing is that Kirk called Larry (presumably so Larry could help him) and Prince spent the entire time denying that anything was wrong while also showing off his new instruments. When questioned by the cops, Larry said that Prince would never talk to him about that sort of thing.

Larry seems super knowledgable about the bible but it didn't seem like him and Prince were friends outside of that and music.

Strive said:

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

OperatingThetan said:

Listening to 'Art Official Age', in particular 'Way Back Home', was enough to convince me that Prince had distanced himself from the faith. The highly spiritual themes and concepts presented are in direct conflict with JW tenets. And I state this as someone with personal experience of the religion. Prince however, behaved in ways that would not have been tolerated by a regular 'rank and file' JW from the very beginning. Even some of the lyrics on 'The Rainbow Children' are highly problematic and are more a Princely blend or interpretation than an accurate reflection of JW beliefs. A regular JW would not be able to openly talk positively about the 'akashic records', energy fields, the third eye or female masturbation for example, without facing disciplinary action.

Yes, seems he was given many "passes", however, I have no doubt the recruiting exposure and money he gave them was invaluable. No way they were going to oust him.

*

Fixed that for you.

Genesia said:

violetcrush said:

Strive said:

The weird thing is that Kirk called Larry (presumably so Larry could help him) and Prince spent the entire time denying that anything was wrong while also showing off his new instruments. When questioned by the cops, Larry said that Prince would never talk to him about that sort of thing.

Larry seems super knowledgable about the bible but it didn't seem like him and Prince were friends outside of that and music.

That is probably because Prince always had one foot in his old social habits - parties, women, etc), and Larry seems to lead a quiet life as a married man. I think the difference in age was a factor too. However, connecting through faith and music is a fairly strong connection. Watching them in interviews and the way Prince would praise him - even having him stand up while accepting an award to show his love for him was quite significant. * If it’s true that Kirk called Larry to help Prince, Prince may not have wanted Larry to know about the pain med addiction - probably because of both his pride and the JW faith.

I actually think Kirk called Larry because he did know what was going on with Prince. I never bought any of what Larry told the investigators - or rather what he didn't tell investigators. It's interesting that Kirk was trying to get Prince to do blood work the next day and had to call Larry to speak to him beforehand.

WeDaBest said: