NouveauDance said:

Like his only influences were 2Unlimited or Colour Me Badd 12" mixes.

.

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

BartVanHemelen said:

NouveauDance said:

Like his only influences were 2Unlimited or Colour Me Badd 12" mixes.

.

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

Curious how tastes diverge - I absolutely loathed the way the loop affected Housequake: it killed it stone-dead, made it coldly robotic rather than warmly alive - at least, to these ears.

*

I quite enjoyed The Human Body but it does, as you say, become very much a by the numbers series of beeps and whoops and fades, after a while.

SimonCharles said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

Curious how tastes diverge - I absolutely loathed the way the loop affected Housequake: it killed it stone-dead, made it coldly robotic rather than warmly alive - at least, to these ears.

*

I quite enjoyed The Human Body but it does, as you say, become very much a by the numbers series of beeps and whoops and fades, after a while.

The rythmic architecture it creates when Michael starts hitting the drums over the loop is one of the most impressive, funkiest rythmic structure I've ever heard from Prince.

On the other hand I don't mind robotic, I love electronic music and I tend to favor drum machines and electronic beats over live drums, particularly when it comes to dance music

BartVanHemelen said:

NouveauDance said:

Like his only influences were 2Unlimited or Colour Me Badd 12" mixes.

.

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

Prince didn't understand a goddamn thing about electronic music past 1990, which is really odd since he was at the avant-garde of it in the early 80's.

He appears to have entirely missed the electronic music revolution that agitated Europe throughout the 90's, maybe because electronica got less exposure in the US, IDK?

It was somewhat shocking, but quite revealing when he said he didn't know who Tricky was in 1996 or 97, at a time when Tricky was, as a journalist put it back then, "nearly God".

At best, he remained stuck with a primitive idea of EDM based on 80's acid house and the early, commercial 90's europop trash he sometimes tried to emulate.

[Edited 4/9/19 4:20am]

databank said:

SimonCharles said:

Curious how tastes diverge - I absolutely loathed the way the loop affected Housequake: it killed it stone-dead, made it coldly robotic rather than warmly alive - at least, to these ears.

*

I quite enjoyed The Human Body but it does, as you say, become very much a by the numbers series of beeps and whoops and fades, after a while.

The rythmic architecture it creates when Michael starts hitting the drums over the loop is one of the most impressive, funkiest rythmic structure I've ever heard from Prince.

On the other hand I don't mind robotic, I love electronic music and I tend to favor drum machines and electronic beats over live drums, particularly when it comes to dance music

Fair point but not for Housequake...even though I know it's a drum machine...it just sounds all kinds of wrong to these pair of ears. Full disclosure, I really didn't enjoy the Nude Tour aurally; I just thought it sounded wrong...not like a Prince band at all. And I've have to go back and listen to it again to have to explain why...and I can't bring myself to do that!

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

Prince didn't understand a goddamn thing about electronic music past 1990, which is really odd since he was at the avant-garde of it in the early 80's.

He appears to have entirely missed the electronic music revolution that agitated Europe throughout the 90's, maybe because electronica got less exposure in the US, IDK?

It was somewhat shocking, but quite revealing when he said he didn't know who Tricky was in 1996 or 97, at a time when Tricky was, as a journalist put it back then, "nearly God".

At best, he remained stuck with a primitive idea of EDM based on 80's acid house and the early, commercial 90's europop trash he sometimes tried to emulate.

[Edited 4/9/19 4:20am]

Beautifully put.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Which is kinda odd since there are plenty of stories of him visiting hip discotheques in Holland in the 1980s, ones where they were playing house/techno/etc. Yet his own efforts invariably sounded like "your uncle who thought he was cool trying to get down with the kids". In some way his best effort was the start of the Nude Tour with all those loops and programmed drums etc. beneath "The Future"/"1999"/"Housequake".

Prince didn't understand a goddamn thing about electronic music past 1990, which is really odd since he was at the avant-garde of it in the early 80's.

He appears to have entirely missed the electronic music revolution that agitated Europe throughout the 90's, maybe because electronica got less exposure in the US, IDK?

It was somewhat shocking, but quite revealing when he said he didn't know who Tricky was in 1996 or 97, at a time when Tricky was, as a journalist put it back then, "nearly God".

At best, he remained stuck with a primitive idea of EDM based on 80's acid house and the early, commercial 90's europop trash he sometimes tried to emulate.

[Edited 4/9/19 4:20am]

Though - using Come as an example - it would be interesting to hear any shelved House Music project to hear what he chose not to release. The darker version of Come is, to these ears, much superior to the released version. I would like to hear whether something more experimental exists as an unreleased project as opposed to the "safer" pop-viable versions of dance music Prince Ok'd. That said - the Cream Maxi-single hinted at directions Prince could have gone (still safe but slightly more diverse - again, to these ears) but chose not to.

SimonCharles said:

databank said:

The rythmic architecture it creates when Michael starts hitting the drums over the loop is one of the most impressive, funkiest rythmic structure I've ever heard from Prince.

On the other hand I don't mind robotic, I love electronic music and I tend to favor drum machines and electronic beats over live drums, particularly when it comes to dance music

Fair point but not for Housequake...even though I know it's a drum machine...it just sounds all kinds of wrong to these pair of ears. Full disclosure, I really didn't enjoy the Nude Tour aurally; I just thought it sounded wrong...not like a Prince band at all. And I've have to go back and listen to it again to have to explain why...and I can't bring myself to do that!

It's funny because without the horns the Nude Tour was a sort of return to form for Prince.

databank said:

SimonCharles said:

Fair point but not for Housequake...even though I know it's a drum machine...it just sounds all kinds of wrong to these pair of ears. Full disclosure, I really didn't enjoy the Nude Tour aurally; I just thought it sounded wrong...not like a Prince band at all. And I've have to go back and listen to it again to have to explain why...and I can't bring myself to do that!

It's funny because without the horns the Nude Tour was a sort of return to form for Prince.

It had too much programming for me...from memory. It was like a Parade-Lite tour - Prince as showman rather than band-leader, as he had been pre-Eric/Matt days - but without the faith in the musicians. That didn't really appear to occur again until 1995ish - one the NPG had been through a few years learning and he lost the Game Boyz distraction.

SimonCharles said:

databank said:

Prince didn't understand a goddamn thing about electronic music past 1990, which is really odd since he was at the avant-garde of it in the early 80's.

He appears to have entirely missed the electronic music revolution that agitated Europe throughout the 90's, maybe because electronica got less exposure in the US, IDK?

It was somewhat shocking, but quite revealing when he said he didn't know who Tricky was in 1996 or 97, at a time when Tricky was, as a journalist put it back then, "nearly God".

At best, he remained stuck with a primitive idea of EDM based on 80's acid house and the early, commercial 90's europop trash he sometimes tried to emulate.

[Edited 4/9/19 4:20am]

Though - using Come as an example - it would be interesting to hear any shelved House Music project to hear what he chose not to release. The darker version of Come is, to these ears, much superior to the released version. I would like to hear whether something more experimental exists as an unreleased project as opposed to the "safer" pop-viable versions of dance music Prince Ok'd. That said - the Cream Maxi-single hinted at directions Prince could have gone (still safe but slightly more diverse - again, to these ears) but chose not to.

I tend to agree with Bart here and doubt any such project exists. Or if it does and if it is Rave as Chuck claims, either one of the the Rave tracklists we know or a configuration we don't know, maybe some tracks were remixed to some extent but it's probably just this "industrial funk" approach Prince had in 88-89 that can be heard on the song Rave itself, some Batman songs and b-sides, but also songs he gave to Kahoru Kohiruimaki or Brownmark that year, as well as the original Fantasia Erotica that Anna streamed last year and the first Madhouse 24 album, so it could be what Chuck meant, that sort of stuff that was minimalist and heavy on electronics, but remains a very familiar Prince sound to us fans, as opposed to a sudden dive into radical or instrumental acid house. So I wouldn't fantasize too much on it being a new, revolutionay side of Prince's music..

SimonCharles said:

databank said:

It's funny because without the horns the Nude Tour was a sort of return to form for Prince.

It had too much programming for me...from memory. It was like a Parade-Lite tour - Prince as showman rather than band-leader, as he had been pre-Eric/Matt days - but without the faith in the musicians. That didn't really appear to occur again until 1995ish - one the NPG had been through a few years learning and he lost the Game Boyz distraction.

I think it's a very subjective statement. Prince played a lot of guitars on the 90-93 tours, and the musical ambitions of the 92/93 tours were beyond anything Prince had done before in terms of sophistication: Prince clearly had faith in the 91/93 incarnation of the NPG (Hornheads included) and used them to do things he couldn't have done with his previous bands. I think what those tours lacked were maybe a sense of underground/experimental approach that came back heavy with the 1994 configuration of the band, when Prince turned the NPG into a sort of cyber-future-punk-funk act that reminded us of the early days in spirit, and maybe that's what you missed with the 90-93 band. That or the Game Boyz distracting you too much from the music indeed (I always found them to be a very minor annoyance)?

databank said:

SimonCharles said:

It had too much programming for me...from memory. It was like a Parade-Lite tour - Prince as showman rather than band-leader, as he had been pre-Eric/Matt days - but without the faith in the musicians. That didn't really appear to occur again until 1995ish - one the NPG had been through a few years learning and he lost the Game Boyz distraction.

I think it's a very subjective statement. Prince played a lot of guitars on the 90-93 tours, and the musical ambitions of the 92/93 tours were beyond anything Prince had done before in terms of sophistication: Prince clearly had faith in the 91/93 incarnation of the NPG (Hornheads included) and used them to do things he couldn't have done with his previous bands. I think what those tours lacked were maybe a sense of underground/experimental approach that came back heavy with the 1994 configuration of the band, when Prince turned the NPG into a sort of cyber-future-punk-funk act that reminded us of the early days in spirit, and maybe that's what you missed with the 90-93 band. That or the Game Boyz distracting you too much from the music indeed (I always found them to be a very minor annoyance)?

Its a chalk and cheese, isn't it? Because, when you listen to some of the aftershows, etc, the NPG were a musical force. The D&P and Act 1 and 2 shows were very, very prescripted. Nude just felt all wrong - I did not take the transition from the SOTT/Lovesexy band to the first NPG iteration particularly well!

databank said:

SimonCharles said:

Though - using Come as an example - it would be interesting to hear any shelved House Music project to hear what he chose not to release. The darker version of Come is, to these ears, much superior to the released version. I would like to hear whether something more experimental exists as an unreleased project as opposed to the "safer" pop-viable versions of dance music Prince Ok'd. That said - the Cream Maxi-single hinted at directions Prince could have gone (still safe but slightly more diverse - again, to these ears) but chose not to.

I tend to agree with Bart here and doubt any such project exists. Or if it does and if it is Rave as Chuck claims, either one of the the Rave tracklists we know or a configuration we don't know, maybe some tracks were remixed to some extent but it's probably just this "industrial funk" approach Prince had in 88-89 that can be heard on the song Rave itself, some Batman songs and b-sides, but also songs he gave to Kahoru Kohiruimaki or Brownmark that year, as well as the original Fantasia Erotica that Anna streamed last year and the first Madhouse 24 album, so it could be what Chuck meant, that sort of stuff that was minimalist and heavy on electronics, but remains a very familiar Prince sound to us fans, as opposed to a sudden dive into radical or instrumental acid house. So I wouldn't fantasize too much on it being a new, revolutionay side of Prince's music..

I have no doubt is it not revolutionary...I commented before that it is likely to be quite awful - I'm just curious, I guess.

SimonCharles said:

I suspect we all felt Nude was disappointing after the 3 tours that had preceded it. It was for casual fans more than hardcore.D+P was a big machine indeed but I saw 2 Act II shows back then and they were more relaxed despite a very fixed setlist, at least that's how I remember it after (sigh) 26 years.

databank said:

SimonCharles said:

Its a chalk and cheese, isn't it? Because, when you listen to some of the aftershows, etc, the NPG were a musical force. The D&P and Act 1 and 2 shows were very, very prescripted. Nude just felt all wrong - I did not take the transition from the SOTT/Lovesexy band to the first NPG iteration particularly well!

I suspect we all felt Nude was disappointing after the 3 tours that had preceded it. It was for casual fans more than hardcore.D+P was a big machine indeed but I saw 2 Act II shows back then and they were more relaxed despite a very fixed setlist, at least that's how I remember it after (sigh) 26 years.

26 years! Man alive...that's ridiculous. If memory serves, I saw the last night of the Act II show at Wembley. It was fine but functional. Memorable for seeing David Bowie leaning in and intently watching the show - I do hope I haven't imagined that...anyhoo. Yes, Nude, disappointing. D&P such spectacle but a little Emporer's New Clothes.