poppys said:

Eric Leeds was def not writing NPG parts tho, correct?

[Edited 2/13/19 16:04pm]

what does that mean? U mean stuff after the Lovesexy band split? The stuff he(and Atlanta Bliss) did on the Graffiti Bridge soundtrack I believe were done in 87-88

.

I Hate U:
Two months earlier, however, a remix containing a portion of the album version along with a portion of the Quiet Night Mix by Eric Leeds was included as the fourth track on The Versace Experience (Prelude 2 Gold) promo cassette given to attendees of the Versace collection of Paris Fashion Week.

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes it was, I totally agree. It was pure purple music... a style of his own.

I know he had to use them as much as possible, but I didn't think the horns were good on all the songs. Horn use on the Purple Rain tour and the Nice France show were very 'deviant' I came across as 'new'. Not like any traditional horn use for some reason. lol

Like the horns on Little Red Corvette on the SOTT show for example made the song sound a little sappy. It didn't have the 'punch' that song would usually have.

Yeah Leeds said Prince would give him songs to work out arrangments. Like with Clare Fischer.

I can't remember who (Eric maybe?) but I'm pretty sure someone from the band once said that Prince just wouldn't let any bandmember being inactive on any song, because he was paying them to play. I totally agree that some songs such as LRC, LGC or WDC suffered from that on the 87-88 tours: certain rock or new wave tracks sound corny if you just stick horns to them for the sake of sticking horns to them.

.

As for the horns charts, I know that by the late 90's at least, Prince would give some specific instructions and let the horns arranger do the rest as they felt it. I was once told what was P and what was MBN on "Y Should Eye Do That When Eye Can Do" and once told, it was totally obvious. IDK for sure if it was already the case with Eric but it's quite likely Prince gave him some directions, or at least "edited" what Eric offered. Didn't Eric address it in his lenghty Prince podcast interview? I can't remember.

Yeah not in every recording situation but songs like Ballad of Dorothy Parker, Prince handed him the song to see what he could do with it. And then decided he didn't like the sound of the sax on it.

yes, he said there were times where Prince rearranged he pieces.

rednblue said:

poppys said:

I like Eric Leeds playing, but he is soloist. Not a horn section by any means.

Yeah. Completely different from when most or all the Hornheadz played at once

A horn section is 2+ musicians Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss

poppys said:

rednblue said:

This makes me think of another legend. How about when Miles Davis appeared with the band? How did people find that?

Of course, Miles was making a guest appearance. Very different from being a band member.

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Im pretty sure I know what Id be irked about. It aint that hard.

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

Quite telling in what way? you might be irked about the wrong thing.

Where I live a horn section is usually bigger, but it's relative. I was with a (really good) sax player for many years. I've heard it all honey.

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Doesn't mean he wasn't starstruck too. I think he was by looking at his face and the way he was grooving. My take.

Part of being a musician is beaucoup bitching. It must be in the DNA. Even musicians will tell you that.

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

Quite telling in what way? you might be irked about the wrong thing.

i don't see anything wrong with that, my thought was "duh, he is black". When things are going good, people of all persuasions will come out the woodwork to claim you and it can fuck with your head, what was going on in Prince's? i don't know but it looks like a conscious attempt to not stray too far from his own culture. he said conflicting things all along about race but he became less and less and less conflicted with time. going back to the afro, which, if you can remember, when degeneres pulled out a copy of for you, he actually looked terrified, he came all the way back to that.

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Doesn't mean he wasn't starstruck too. I think he was by looking at his face and the way he was grooving. My take.

Part of being a musician is beaucoup bitching. It must be in the DNA. Even musicians will tell you that.

Enjoyed that interview, too. My take is berating-while-starstruck.

That is, P was calling out the band while starstruck, and with understanding that the band was also starstruck. To me, that whole mix of interactions makes the stories and video even more fascinating, fun and endearing.

[Edited 2/14/19 3:47am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

rednblue said:

Yeah. Completely different from when most or all the Hornheadz played at once

A horn section is 2+ musicians Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss

Not a musician. Apologize if misusing terms. Was attempting to contrast the sounds of Leeds and Bliss with, for instance, KoolEaze's example of Arsenio Mutiny performance.

If I'm counting correctly : ), Prince Vault lists 11 horns on that one:

"BK Jackson (saxophone), Marcus Anderson (saxophone), Adrian Crutchfield(saxophone), Lynn Grissett​ (trumpet), Steve Reid (trumpet), Phil Lassiter (trumpet), Sylvester Onyejiaka(saxophone), Keith Anderson (saxophone), Nick Marchione (trumpet), Roy Agee (trombone), Joey Rayfield(trombone)"

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

rednblue said:

Not a musician. Apologize if misusing terms. Was attempting to contrast the sounds of Leeds and Bliss with, for instance, KoolEaze's example of Arsenio Mutiny performance.

If I'm counting correctly : ), Prince Vault lists 11 horns on that one:

"BK Jackson (saxophone), Marcus Anderson (saxophone), Adrian Crutchfield(saxophone), Lynn Grissett​ (trumpet), Steve Reid (trumpet), Phil Lassiter (trumpet), Sylvester Onyejiaka(saxophone), Keith Anderson (saxophone), Nick Marchione (trumpet), Roy Agee (trombone), Joey Rayfield(trombone)"

Quantity doesn't always mean quality. I prefer just Leeds and Bliss. Those '87-88 aftershows are some of the best

Agree about quantity and quality. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I really enjoy some of the later horns stuff, but like KoolEaze, can say that particular Mutiny performance isn't really my "cup of tea." And I LOVE Mutiny.

To each his own!

rednblue said:

poppys said:

Doesn't mean he wasn't starstruck too. I think he was by looking at his face and the way he was grooving. My take.

Part of being a musician is beaucoup bitching. It must be in the DNA. Even musicians will tell you that.

Enjoyed that interview, too. My take is berating-while-starstruck.

That is, P was calling out the band while starstruck, and with understanding that the band was also starstruck. To me, that whole mix of interactions makes the stories and video even more fascinating, fun and endearing.

If a musician ain't bitching, they ain't breathing.

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Doesn't mean he wasn't starstruck too. I think he was by looking at his face and the way he was grooving. My take.

Part of being a musician is beaucoup bitching. It must be in the DNA. Even musicians will tell you that.

Interesting. Perhaps there's more than teenagehood driving my artistic teenager's demeanor.

rednblue said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

A horn section is 2+ musicians Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss

Not a musician. Apologize if misusing terms. Was attempting to contrast the sounds of Leeds and Bliss with, for instance, KoolEaze's example of Arsenio Mutiny performance.

If I'm counting correctly : ), Prince Vault lists 11 horns on that one:

"BK Jackson (saxophone), Marcus Anderson (saxophone), Adrian Crutchfield(saxophone), Lynn Grissett​ (trumpet), Steve Reid (trumpet), Phil Lassiter (trumpet), Sylvester Onyejiaka(saxophone), Keith Anderson (saxophone), Nick Marchione (trumpet), Roy Agee (trombone), Joey Rayfield(trombone)"

no need to apologize.

yeah things are more complicated when friendship and someone who knew/worked for Prince from the beginning 1978-1990 a veteran and someone who joined in late 1989 who was not even a friend, and Prince starts treating Fink disrespectfully, as he did to Miko. And one of those 'new friends get's kicked out the camp 2yrs later for allegedly messing with Carmen? idk, but also going to 'shove black down Prince's throat' lol Prince stayed in touch with Fink, not Tony. So it's not so easily telling when you look at the full picture.

rdhull said:

Im pretty sure I know what Id be irked about. It aint that hard.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Quite telling in what way? you might be irked about the wrong thing.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Quite telling in what way? you might be irked about the wrong thing.

i don't see anything wrong with that, my thought was "duh, he is black". When things are going good, people of all persuasions will come out the woodwork to claim you and it can fuck with your head, what was going on in Prince's? i don't know but it looks like a conscious attempt to not stray too far from his own culture. he said conflicting things all along about race but he became less and less and less conflicted with time. going back to the afro, which, if you can remember, when degeneres pulled out a copy of for you, he actually looked terrified, he came all the way back to that.

But I will never choose friendships just based on ethnicity. Because people of your own ethnicity can turn out to be a nightmare. Hell family will stab you in the front while saying they love you. And Tony M was no friend of Prince's. And Kirk... Miko went even further into what he thought about them. He said they acted one way in front of Prince and totally different behind his back. Dr Fink and Miko talked about how the new members behaved.

.

Think about this... You worked with/was in community with someone for 10-20 yrs. Then someone new comes into the picture and your friend changes towards you. You don't see anything wrong with that? Miko Weaver experienced the same thing Dr Fink was going through. Clowning them in front of people/parents etc I remember watching on of the rehearsals where Prince was sitting in the audience directing everyone and he decided to have the lighting guy focus on Miko's shoes and decided make fun of them, and Miko was clearly trying to ignore him and go on with the rehearsal lol So I'm saying things are that easily packaged in box explainations. I mean look at what Jesse is still wresting with.

by 1980-1989 Prince was 'SuperStar' he was some regular dude in the neighborhood, the mad had his own studio that he could live in, record albums and film movies/videos. Stray from his own? Prince became an enigma. He like most celebs are so swayed or influenced by the everyday issues that might affect you and me. I think Prince was always conflicted, especially about his desire to cut loose and his desire to stay within the frame of his JW religiosity. I don't know if I've every actually thought Prince was conflicted about his ethnicity. Race is a construct. There really is no 1 way to be...

.

The afro had nothing to do with race consciousness. Even Kim(sadly she is on the shit list) talked about Prince's reason for growing his hair out. I mean most African ethnic groups never wore afros.

Lots of people of different ethnicities, including Puerto Rican, Jewish and Italian had natural afros.

I'm mean I alway looked at Prince making that 'terrified' look more being about a revisiting of his past. He would have probably given the same look if she pulled up the Dirty Mind album. I doubt it had anything being about Prince not being comfortable with ethnicity. I wished he continued to live and kept growing it out.

And painter Bob Ross forever rocked an afro until his passing

Alan Leeds below

poppys said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Doesn't mean he wasn't starstruck too. I think he was by looking at his face and the way he was grooving. My take.

Part of being a musician is beaucoup bitching. It must be in the DNA. Even musicians will tell you that.

I didn't mean to imply he wasn't starstruck. The reason he never recorded with Miles was because he was. I just added the this extra part because it was so funny watching it happen.

poppys said:

Where I live a horn section is usually bigger, but it's relative. I was with a (really good) sax player for many years. I've heard it all honey.

Well honey, lol a horn section is still 2+ wind instruments. Just saying Eric was a part of a horn section. just not the boring traditional horn sections lol

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually Prince got a bit upset when Miles was onstage lol because the band stopped paying attention to him

TLM: Wasn’t Prince perplexed because the band was forgetting all the cues?

Eric Leeds: He gave us one of his hand cues to hit a riff and as I remember it, no one hit the cue, because they were all grooving on what Miles was doing and Prince was kinda taken aback! He yelled “Hey, I’m still the boss up here!”

Would that New Years Eve show be in your top 10 shows the Estate should release?

OldFriends4Sale said:

poppys said:

Where I live a horn section is usually bigger, but it's relative. I was with a (really good) sax player for many years. I've heard it all honey.

Well honey, lol a horn section is still 2+ wind instruments. Just saying Eric was a part of a horn section. just not the boring traditional horn sections lol

yeah, thanks for your opinion.

[Edited 2/14/19 7:13am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

Would that New Years Eve show be in your top 10 shows the Estate should release?

For posteriors sake, sure. But they have the already released SOTT movie. The balloon "Matthew , come get your rope" thing is funny af though.

I thnk the Hornheads came across more polished than later bigger horn sections Prince used in the 2000s

The Hornheads, an extraordinarily talented group of horn players, has been gathering international acclaim from artists and critics alike, since 1991.

On tour with Prince and the New Power Generation from 1991-1994, the Hornheads performed for over 2 million concert goers in twenty countries. Q Magazine, London, described them as “a peerless horn section...playing in bare brilliant syncopation, punching with a staccato precision beyond the grasp of science or Synclavier. Prince splashes their insouciant versatility all over the set list.”

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Would that New Years Eve show be in your top 10 shows the Estate should release?

For posteriors sake, sure. But they have the already released SOTT movie. The balloon "Matthew , come get your rope" thing is funny af though.

lol

I was watching/listening to this show not long ago, and it didn't always have the same 'pump' the SOTT concert film does. Like If I Was You're Girlfriend wasn't as climactic

. The general SOTT run of song didn't have the same energy. The more interesting part was definately from It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, 6(Miles) onward. But definately a must lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

For posteriors sake, sure. But they have the already released SOTT movie. The balloon "Matthew , come get your rope" thing is funny af though.

lol

I was watching/listening to this show not long ago, and it didn't always have the same 'pump' the SOTT concert film does. Like If I Was You're Girlfriend wasn't as climactic

. The general SOTT run of song didn't have the same energy. The more interesting part was definately from It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, 6(Miles) onward. But definately a must lol

I agree, it does not have the same energy as the film but I think that is normal considering that it was more of a loose NYE show than a regular tour concert.

By the way, that If I Was Your Girlfriend version from that night at Paisley is the one I listen to the most. It may not sound as tight as the one from the movie but it is one of those rare live versions of that song where he does the song justice. I am not a big fan of later live versions that had live horns in it and that sounded too cheerful for me. Just my opinion but I think that IIWYG is such a great example of an introverted, quiet, reflecting and melancholic song about relationship and communication problems that singing it loud and fast and cheerful did not really add anything to the song.

Sometimes I like when the mood of a song changes over the years, for example Something in the Water has gone through many, many changes but IIWYG ? I don´t know. I prefer that NYE version or the movie version over any other version.

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

For posteriors sake, sure. But they have the already released SOTT movie. The balloon "Matthew , come get your rope" thing is funny af though.

lol

I was watching/listening to this show not long ago, and it didn't always have the same 'pump' the SOTT concert film does. Like If I Was You're Girlfriend wasn't as climactic

. The general SOTT run of song didn't have the same energy. The more interesting part was definately from It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, 6(Miles) onward. But definately a must lol

I wish they would have been able to use the actual concert footage for the SOTT film instead of the staged production with the lip syncing at PP. The audio of those concerts gives a much more energetic feel. They had major weather issues in Europe when trying to film the concerts, and Cat Glover said many fans were holding up signs that said, " Where's Wendy & Lisa??" and "Where is The Revolution??" Yikes!! Cat stated Prince was really pissed off.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

lol

I was watching/listening to this show not long ago, and it didn't always have the same 'pump' the SOTT concert film does. Like If I Was You're Girlfriend wasn't as climactic

. The general SOTT run of song didn't have the same energy. The more interesting part was definately from It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, 6(Miles) onward. But definately a must lol

I wish they would have been able to use the actual concert footage for the SOTT film instead of the staged production with the lip syncing at PP. The audio of those concerts gives a much more energetic feel. They had major weather issues in Europe when trying to film the concerts, and Cat Glover said many fans were holding up signs that said, " Where's Wendy & Lisa??" and "Where is The Revolution??" Yikes!! Cat stated Prince was really pissed off.

haha, well prince understood instinctively what to do to get his following, mix the band, dumb to be pissed off about it. Springsteen said what all the great performers knew, that audiences want to look onstage and see a bit of themselves. Prince knew this so he could only blame himself.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

I wish they would have been able to use the actual concert footage for the SOTT film instead of the staged production with the lip syncing at PP. The audio of those concerts gives a much more energetic feel. They had major weather issues in Europe when trying to film the concerts, and Cat Glover said many fans were holding up signs that said, " Where's Wendy & Lisa??" and "Where is The Revolution??" Yikes!! Cat stated Prince was really pissed off.

haha, well prince understood instinctively what to do to get his following, mix the band, dumb to be pissed off about it. Springsteen said what all the great performers knew, that audiences want to look onstage and see a bit of themselves. Prince knew this so he could only blame himself.

Good point. With the exception of Matt Fink, who was more hidden at the back of the stage, there was no mixed color. Well, you still had Eric and Bliss, but again, they were not prominent at the front of the stage.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

haha, well prince understood instinctively what to do to get his following, mix the band, dumb to be pissed off about it. Springsteen said what all the great performers knew, that audiences want to look onstage and see a bit of themselves. Prince knew this so he could only blame himself.

Good point. With the exception of Matt Fink, who was more hidden at the back of the stage, there was no mixed color. Well, you still had Eric and Bliss, but again, they were not prominent at the front of the stage.

Well the SOTT show people were not hidden. the stage set up was very similar to all the previous. Everyone visible. Which is partially why I prefer it over the Lovesexy show. Until he had Sheila E on percussions up front you never really saw her.

.

It was the Lovesexy show where you really couldn't see anyone except for Prince and Cat,

followed by Levi Miko and Eric

.

The complexions of the people in the band was very diverse.

.

2 darker skinned men: Levi, and Miko everyone else was on the fair complexion side. Eric Atlanta Dr Fink Sheila E Prince were all in the same skin tone range. Cat was fair complexioned just a little tanner. Boni a light caramel complexion etc -Lovesexy band