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Reply #360 posted 02/23/19 4:30pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Those (3) halved pills in room (6) that were located in the black suitcase... Did they state whether or not they are the same as the fentanyl/lidocaine pills in composition?

I am assuming that this is not the "black bag" carried off the plane by Kirk when they were in Moline , correct?

I haven't been able to locate any information yet on the testing of the pills in the black suitcase. These pills were in Room 6. This is not the black bag from Moline.

Right. We def. need that information ( suitcase)as well as what was in the "bag" to tie things together.

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Reply #361 posted 02/23/19 4:34pm

rednblue

Thanks to everyone for their efforts! I can't begin to imagine the time it would take to go through and organize all these details!

The level of denial and other toxic stuff on the first few threads...shudder.

These days everyone may not (of course) be in agreement, but it works out so much better.

Thanks all, and thanks June7!

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Reply #362 posted 02/23/19 4:37pm

Menes

rednblue said:

Thanks to everyone for their efforts! I can't begin to imagine the time it would take to go through and organize all these details!

The level of denial and other toxic stuff on the first few threads...shudder.

These days everyone may not (of course) be in agreement, but it works out so much better.

Thanks all, and thanks June7!

Stay tuned! There's more to come.

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Reply #363 posted 02/23/19 4:43pm

rednblue

Menes said:

rednblue said:

Thanks to everyone for their efforts! I can't begin to imagine the time it would take to go through and organize all these details!

The level of denial and other toxic stuff on the first few threads...shudder.

These days everyone may not (of course) be in agreement, but it works out so much better.

Thanks all, and thanks June7!

Stay tuned! There's more to come.


Thanks, Menes!

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Reply #364 posted 02/23/19 4:48pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

rednblue said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

It sounds like he wasn't so far gone into his addiction that he was barely able to walk around PP when he was alone....not to mention ride his bike for a short while and throw a little party...BECAUSE he was totally aware that the percosets and his custom made Fent/ lidocaine combo were the deadly ones...

He was willing to cut the most powerful pills in half because he totally knew how the OD trip went.(I wonder how many times Kirk carried an unconscious Prince in his arms to get help) and that's why he wasn't afraid about doing what he wanted to do his last day. He knew exactly what he was doing, in control to the end.


It's almost universal that when it comes to where people want to be in life, the extent to which they are able to control how close to that targeted place they actually are, varies enormously over a lifetime.

At times, people do make controlled, conscious choices from a set of difficult, highly imperfect options.

I guess what I'm trying (not finding good words) to say is that although "successful control" varies from person to person, most everyone has times when they have some control, times when they have little control, and times when they're quite well in control.

Bodhi, if you don't mind my asking...

Do you think that the substance dose P was at times on, over his last decade, was the path and place he targeted, his choice path out of all the paths he could possibly have taken over that decade?

What a deep and thoughtful question. Of course, it was what it was...and everything happens by itself and no one can ever totally know anothers' journey and soul. Having stated the obvious; I don't think people consciously CHOOSE addiction though they may dream of, long for and take risks to alleviate their physical, emotional and/or spiritual pain. And then you wake up one morning (or in Prince's case, a late afternoon) and you gotta have it and your life is forevermore dfferent.

I also believe, in Prince's case (and he was not alone, by any metric): celebrity and wealth replace healthier guardrails that help us on our journey. Add to this mix pride, lack of an intimate family life, hangers-on rather than true friends, ageing out of your most beautiful form, and your career(your lifes' work and total identity) begins evolving in a manner that maybe you didn't see coming. Maybe you had planned to play your guitar until the end.

You lost your wives, your son, your parents, Denise...just like each and every one of us experience loss...but you're PRINCE. I think he was more emotionally delicate, wounded and fragile than any of us knew. It wasn't about his hips.

[Edited 2/23/19 16:55pm]

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Reply #365 posted 02/23/19 5:45pm

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

I haven't been able to locate any information yet on the testing of the pills in the black suitcase. These pills were in Room 6. This is not the black bag from Moline.

Right. We def. need that information ( suitcase)as well as what was in the "bag" to tie things together.

I went back and reviewed the 2 investigation files and can advise the following as relates to testing that was done by the DEA.

1.Aleve bottle-correction to what I stated previously, this bottle contained lidocaine- a synthetic version

2. Pills in black suitcase- it states "one of the pills was tested" and it contained fentanyl and lidocaine

3. Black bag- it had 1 pill which wa oxycodone-acetaminophen 10/325

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Reply #366 posted 02/23/19 6:06pm

PennyPurple

avatar

I think if Prince set himself on this path, he would have been on the hardcore stuff. Oxycontin.

Percocets and Vicodins are childs play compared to Oxycontin.

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Reply #367 posted 02/23/19 6:16pm

leec1

PennyPurple said:

I think if Prince set himself on this path, he would have been on the hardcore stuff. Oxycontin.

Percocets and Vicodins are childs play compared to Oxycontin.

Oxycodone is oxycontin. He had 1 pill in the black bag found in his bedroom. Is it possible he was starting to progress to oxycontin?

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Reply #368 posted 02/23/19 6:19pm

rednblue

Bodhitheblackdog said:

rednblue said:


It's almost universal that when it comes to where people want to be in life, the extent to which they are able to control how close to that targeted place they actually are, varies enormously over a lifetime.

At times, people do make controlled, conscious choices from a set of difficult, highly imperfect options.

I guess what I'm trying (not finding good words) to say is that although "successful control" varies from person to person, most everyone has times when they have some control, times when they have little control, and times when they're quite well in control.

Bodhi, if you don't mind my asking...

Do you think that the substance dose P was at times on, over his last decade, was the path and place he targeted, his choice path out of all the paths he could possibly have taken over that decade?

What a deep and thoughtful question. Of course, it was what it was...and everything happens by itself and no one can ever totally know anothers' journey and soul. Having stated the obvious; I don't think people consciously CHOOSE addiction though they may dream of, long for and take risks to alleviate their physical, emotional and/or spiritual pain. And then you wake up one morning (or in Prince's case, a late afternoon) and you gotta have it and your life is forevermore dfferent.

I also believe, in Prince's case (and he was not alone, by any metric): celebrity and wealth replace healthier guardrails that help us on our journey. Add to this mix pride, lack of an intimate family life, hangers-on rather than true friends, ageing out of your most beautiful form, and your career(your lifes' work and total identity) begins evolving in a manner that maybe you didn't see coming. Maybe you had planned to play your guitar until the end.

You lost your wives, your son, your parents, Denise...just like each and every one of us experience loss...but you're PRINCE. I think he was more emotionally delicate, wounded and fragile than any of us knew. It wasn't about his hips.

[Edited 2/23/19 16:55pm]


Thank you, Bodhi!

Many illnesses can take a lot of control away from a person. There are reasonable treatments for some illnesses. For others, not so much.

Now that I've stated the obvious : ), I'll add that I sometimes speculate that there was a lot of internal and external pressure on P to be/appear in control. I hope he knew that, should he appear to struggle with control, his fans would not go away. Fan passion would be there in spades! P's fans would send him this message in a heartbeat. We had no idea what he was going through.

Thank you for your beautiful words, here and in the past, on the perils of celebrity.

Beyond that, I want to bold everything you wrote above. Thank you for all of your beautiful words!

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Reply #369 posted 02/23/19 6:21pm

rednblue

PennyPurple said:

I think if Prince set himself on this path, he would have been on the hardcore stuff. Oxycontin.

Percocets and Vicodins are childs play compared to Oxycontin.


Thank you!

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Reply #370 posted 02/23/19 6:34pm

Menes

leec1 said:

Menes said:

Right. We def. need that information ( suitcase)as well as what was in the "bag" to tie things together.

I went back and reviewed the 2 investigation files and can advise the following as relates to testing that was done by the DEA.

1.Aleve bottle-correction to what I stated previously, this bottle contained lidocaine- a synthetic version

2. Pills in black suitcase- it states "one of the pills was tested" and it contained fentanyl and lidocaine

3. Black bag- it had 1 pill which wa oxycodone-acetaminophen 10/325

Now that looks about right based upon my recollection. I am hoping that all of the information I have read , coupled with the information provided by the many posters such as yourself, is as accurate as can be. We have been flying blind at night for too long (at least I have). It is time to put in some serious work. It's gonna take me a bit of time but I am going to try and figure this out, come hell or high water.



I intend to calculate raw scientific data, time , metabolic rates , excretion times, dosage amounts , drug interactions, and anything else I can think of for that (7) day period to explain this madness that culminated in a sudden death.

I feel that Prince either researched the same data or was provided insight into the world of how to balance opiate usage/addiction in his everyday life for quite some time. (7) days is a very short period of time to , for all intents and purposes, intentionally ingest various substances that should have killed him thrice.

I also intend on remaining open to criticism, correction and dialogue that may support any other findings.

Last time I embarked upon this journey, a certain other half in my house threatened to ration the puss until my obsession had vanquish. Tough luck bitch. I plan on investing in a shopping spree @ Neiman Marcus after its all said and done, lest I am permanently cut off.

"This is a man's world, but it wouldn't be nothing...

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Reply #371 posted 02/23/19 8:29pm

PennyPurple

avatar

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

I think if Prince set himself on this path, he would have been on the hardcore stuff. Oxycontin.

Percocets and Vicodins are childs play compared to Oxycontin.

Oxycodone is oxycontin. He had 1 pill in the black bag found in his bedroom. Is it possible he was starting to progress to oxycontin?

Oxycontin is pure, no tylenol and a lot stronger then what he was on, except for the fentanyl.

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Reply #372 posted 02/23/19 10:01pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

BCI Drug Analysis



-Aleve bottle on nightstand. 21.5 marked Watson 853 contained Lidocaine only


-Script in suitcase in P's bedroom with Kirk's name contained 10 Oxycodone

-Bayer bottle found on nightstand contained 64.5 marked Watson 853 was Fentanyl/Lidocaine

-Pills in tissue in jewelry box contained 15 marked Watson 853 was Fentanyl/Lidocaine

-1 Yellow pill found inside black bag on P's bed and seen in hospital surveillance video from Moline was Oxycodone

-Vitamin C in suitcase in P's bedroom ID tag Peter Bravestrong contained 49 and 3 1/2 marked Watson 853 was Fentanyl/Lidocaine

-Script in Kirk's name from Dr. Boo found in dumpster contained 10 Codeine pills.

-Another Vitamin C bottle found in duffle bag in P's bedroom contained a mixture of 54 pills - Lidocaine only, Hydrocodone only.

-CVC Pharmacy bottle found in the bag ID as Peter Bravestrong contained 27 pills that contained Fentanyl/Lidocaine


[Edited 2/23/19 22:33pm]

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Reply #373 posted 02/24/19 5:22am

leec1

Menes said:

leec1 said:

I went back and reviewed the 2 investigation files and can advise the following as relates to testing that was done by the DEA.

1.Aleve bottle-correction to what I stated previously, this bottle contained lidocaine- a synthetic version

2. Pills in black suitcase- it states "one of the pills was tested" and it contained fentanyl and lidocaine

3. Black bag- it had 1 pill which wa oxycodone-acetaminophen 10/325

Now that looks about right based upon my recollection. I am hoping that all of the information I have read , coupled with the information provided by the many posters such as yourself, is as accurate as can be. We have been flying blind at night for too long (at least I have). It is time to put in some serious work. It's gonna take me a bit of time but I am going to try and figure this out, come hell or high water.



I intend to calculate raw scientific data, time , metabolic rates , excretion times, dosage amounts , drug interactions, and anything else I can think of for that (7) day period to explain this madness that culminated in a sudden death.

I feel that Prince either researched the same data or was provided insight into the world of how to balance opiate usage/addiction in his everyday life for quite some time. (7) days is a very short period of time to , for all intents and purposes, intentionally ingest various substances that should have killed him thrice.

I also intend on remaining open to criticism, correction and dialogue that may support any other findings.

Last time I embarked upon this journey, a certain other half in my house threatened to ration the puss until my obsession had vanquish. Tough luck bitch. I plan on investing in a shopping spree @ Neiman Marcus after its all said and done, lest I am permanently cut off.

"This is a man's world, but it wouldn't be nothing...



So you feel comfortable that the information is correct that I have listed, you can double check the data as it is located in Folder 5- Investigation Report Number 2, Pages 66 and 67 which shows the DEA lab results.

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Reply #374 posted 02/24/19 5:36am

leec1

PennyPurple said:

leec1 said:

Oxycodone is oxycontin. He had 1 pill in the black bag found in his bedroom. Is it possible he was starting to progress to oxycontin?

Oxycontin is pure, no tylenol and a lot stronger then what he was on, except for the fentanyl.

The description of many drugs can become confusing so I checked with the site of the

National Library of Medicine. The link is below. There are various versions of Oxycodone. The following sentences are from the National Library article.

"Oxycodone is also available in combination with acetaminophen (Oxycet, Percocet, Roxicet, Xartemis XR, others); aspirin (Percodan); and ibuprofen."

"Oxycodone comes as a solution (liquid), a concentrated solution, a tablet, a capsule, an extended-release (long-acting) tablet (Oxycontin) and an extended-release capsule (Xtampza ER) to take by mouth."


The link is:

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a682132.html

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Reply #375 posted 02/24/19 7:10am

PennyPurple

avatar

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

Oxycontin is pure, no tylenol and a lot stronger then what he was on, except for the fentanyl.

The description of many drugs can become confusing so I checked with the site of the

National Library of Medicine. The link is below. There are various versions of Oxycodone. The following sentences are from the National Library article.

"Oxycodone is also available in combination with acetaminophen (Oxycet, Percocet, Roxicet, Xartemis XR, others); aspirin (Percodan); and ibuprofen."

"Oxycodone comes as a solution (liquid), a concentrated solution, a tablet, a capsule, an extended-release (long-acting) tablet (Oxycontin) and an extended-release capsule (Xtampza ER) to take by mouth."


The link is:

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a682132.html

Thanks Lee, I was going to do some research last night but got sidetracked.

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Reply #376 posted 02/25/19 11:42am

1Sasha

Thank you so much to the people who are examining the evidence in Prince's case. There are so many of us who still care deeply about him.

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Reply #377 posted 02/25/19 5:54pm

XxAxX

avatar

1Sasha said:

Thank you so much to the people who are examining the evidence in Prince's case. There are so many of us who still care deeply about him.

ditto that. something feels off. just those pictures of pills stuck and scattered everywhere seems off. disorganized and not in character

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Reply #378 posted 02/26/19 12:48am

June7

Moderator

avatar

moderator

ladygirl99 said:



leec1 said:




ladygirl99 said:


The question is why this thread, not a sticky but other threads that get fewer views and fewer posts are.



This thread should be a permanent sticky imo as it still gotten over 20000 even at Part 13.



But if this question is answered before I do apologize.




I don't recall ever seeing a response to the question why isn't this thread a sticky as I do remember this question being asked previously.



I orgnote June7 about this question. I hope he replies on here or I would received a reply from him.



[I responded via .orgnote - feel free to repost if you wish. - June7]
[PRINCE 4EVER!]

[June7, "ModGod"]
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Reply #379 posted 02/27/19 7:58pm

nelcp777

So if Kirk did clean PP with good intentions, he may have inadvertently caused P to take the fentanyl pills. It may also explain why dialude was not found.
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Reply #380 posted 02/27/19 9:21pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

nelcp777 said:

So if Kirk did clean PP with good intentions, he may have inadvertently caused P to take the fentanyl pills. It may also explain why dialude was not found.



We don't know whether Kirk was permitted into P's private quarters, and Kirk may have just cleaned the common areas.

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Reply #381 posted 02/28/19 8:08am

peggyon

I wanted to touch on the topic of opiate tolerance. It was mentioned several posts ago that Prince had taken an unusually large amount of Hydrocodone (Vicodin) and Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) in the days following Moline as evidenced by his high blood levels. For most of us, this blood level would have been fatal. Prince, though,clearly had a high tolerance to opiates. (This was shown, also, by the significant amount of Narcan it required to reverse the opiates in his system.)

Though his blood level (after Moline), showed significantly high levels of opiates, it was not enough as he was showing signs of withdrawal on 4/20, ie., feeling 'antsy', having fine tremors, Kirl's comments about showing signs of WD etc.

This tells me he was used to much higher levels of opiates to feel comfortable. I think he may have been taking Fentanyl pre-Moline, or certainly higher doses of Oxycodone (Perc) and Dilaudid.

Though I am only surmising, I do not think he would have wanted Fentanyl to show in his blood work on 4/20 as it would have indicated a very extreme addiction. He may not have taken it after Moline as he had promised blood tests and may have known it would clear his system by then.

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Reply #382 posted 02/28/19 8:41am

rednblue

peggyon said:

I wanted to touch on the topic of opiate tolerance. It was mentioned several posts ago that Prince had taken an unusually large amount of Hydrocodone (Vicodin) and Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) in the days following Moline as evidenced by his high blood levels. For most of us, this blood level would have been fatal. Prince, though,clearly had a high tolerance to opiates. (This was shown, also, by the significant amount of Narcan it required to reverse the opiates in his system.)



Though his blood level (after Moline), showed significantly high levels of opiates, it was not enough as he was showing signs of withdrawal on 4/20, ie., feeling 'antsy', having fine tremors, Kirl's comments about showing signs of WD etc.



This tells me he was used to much higher levels of opiates to feel comfortable. I think he may have been taking Fentanyl pre-Moline, or certainly higher doses of Oxycodone (Perc) and Dilaudid.



Though I am only surmising, I do not think he would have wanted Fentanyl to show in his blood work on 4/20 as it would have indicated a very extreme addiction. He may not have taken it after Moline as he had promised blood tests and may have known it would clear his system by then.




Thank you, peggyon! Questions about people’s current tolerance, and effect on fatal dose, have been rattling around in my head, so really appreciate you posting. Missed you!
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Reply #383 posted 02/28/19 9:17am

peggyon

biggrin

rednblue said:

peggyon said:

I wanted to touch on the topic of opiate tolerance. It was mentioned several posts ago that Prince had taken an unusually large amount of Hydrocodone (Vicodin) and Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) in the days following Moline as evidenced by his high blood levels. For most of us, this blood level would have been fatal. Prince, though,clearly had a high tolerance to opiates. (This was shown, also, by the significant amount of Narcan it required to reverse the opiates in his system.)

Though his blood level (after Moline), showed significantly high levels of opiates, it was not enough as he was showing signs of withdrawal on 4/20, ie., feeling 'antsy', having fine tremors, Kirl's comments about showing signs of WD etc.

This tells me he was used to much higher levels of opiates to feel comfortable. I think he may have been taking Fentanyl pre-Moline, or certainly higher doses of Oxycodone (Perc) and Dilaudid.

Though I am only surmising, I do not think he would have wanted Fentanyl to show in his blood work on 4/20 as it would have indicated a very extreme addiction. He may not have taken it after Moline as he had promised blood tests and may have known it would clear his system by then.

Thank you, peggyon! Questions about people’s current tolerance, and effect on fatal dose, have been rattling around in my head, so really appreciate you posting. Missed you!

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Reply #384 posted 02/28/19 9:28am

peggyon

A story about tolerance. The other day, while rounding with one of the MD's, we met with a patient who was in withdrawal from alcohol though his blood alcohol level was 4 x the legal limit!

His body was used to such large amounts of alcohol that he would withdraw while at a really high blood alcohol level. Withdrawal is relative to what the body is used to.

I sense Prince was really limping along taking way less than his usual doses until his blood test 4/20, though we are aghast at the levels. He was likely doing 'damage control' here as well. Did the best he could; really needed medical assistance.

The recent interview with Gayle Chapman (towards the end of the second interview) is enlightening.

She seemed very down- to- earth and somewhat detached from the 'whole Prince thing', so I tended to believe her. She talks about his decision to do it 'his way' without the usual controls that most of us mere mortals have.

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Reply #385 posted 02/28/19 9:38am

PennyPurple

avatar

eek Peggy!! I've missed you!! Welcome back.

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Reply #386 posted 02/28/19 9:47am

peggyon

PennyPurple said:

eek Peggy!! I've missed you!! Welcome back.

Thanks, Penny.

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Reply #387 posted 02/28/19 10:53am

Bodhitheblackd
og

PennyPurple said:

eek Peggy!! I've missed you!! Welcome back.

DITTO! biggrin

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Reply #388 posted 02/28/19 11:01am

peggyon

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

eek Peggy!! I've missed you!! Welcome back.

DITTO! biggrin

Thanks, Bodhi

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Reply #389 posted 02/28/19 11:57am

nelcp777

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

nelcp777 said:

So if Kirk did clean PP with good intentions, he may have inadvertently caused P to take the fentanyl pills. It may also explain why dialude was not found.



We don't know whether Kirk was permitted into P's private quarters, and Kirk may have just cleaned the common areas.

True. I may be reading more into Manuela's statement to law enforcement. But Her saying Kirk looked in the bag and did not find the bottles made me think Kirk was in the private quarters.

Kirk would have had to access it when Prince was not around and the day of the 20th. I say the 20th, cos we know that dialud was in his system.

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