Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

^^ Wow go to the link and see the whole book. Looks like the comic guy has seen the pics.

OMG, I was just about to post this, Penny...blew my mind....so on point...

Evidently the org's facebook page liked my link too.....

PennyPurple said:

Astasheiks said:

Yikes!

I don't guess there is a Orthopedic Surgeon on org or somebody close to that medical discipline on the org. Because I would like to ask even if P had gone to that rehab place in CA, he still was going to be in hip pain and still would need some relief. So a great a Orthopedic Surgeon could have did hip replacement or double hip replacement but he didn't want to do that because of being tied up with Larry Graham and them JW's because they are not to take blood transfusions so he would still be in a mess!?!?!?!?!

Or did that Dr. in CA or somewhere else had a remedy for the continue pain without the hip surgery?

Opinions???

[Edited 2/20/19 13:03pm]

He had the hip surgery.

I thought that was just on one hip?

1Sasha said:

nelcp777 said:

So then, if the CVS bottles were older than Atlanta, then that implies to me that Prince had been using fentanyl for a longer period than thought. Perhaps the reason there was not any fentanyl in the blood test on the 20th was because Prince went back to dialud and took the last of it since it was not found in the initial CC search?

Residents of Chanhassen had begun talking of suicide right after P passed. I would imagine a local source would have been revealed, but I could be wrong. The dark web makes a great, intriguing source, but the financial records were looked at. They were not released per the withheld list of documents. At some point, wouldn't an account be needed for Bitcoin?

I mean shit, Patrick Cousins took money from Prince and the SA caught onto it, not Prince.

I see why Kirk lawyered up along with Phaedra. Kirk has a vault too, and KAJ productions is getting paid. Phaedra got her cut, but not her waiver.

The bag that contained the CVS bottles, I wonder when was the last time Prince used that bag for travel. Hell, if he went to Atlanta for 1 night, why would he need so many bottles?

The DEA never releases the shipping info to the Country Inn. Prince did spend a lot of time in LA, perhaps that was his source?

Maybe around 2014 - 2015 he went from dialud and vicodin to fentanyl? Perhaps that explains the rapid change in appearance? Thoughts anyone?

My sister lived in Eden Prairie at the time. She said the chatter went from an accident in the first days to suicide within weeks.

I heard similar comments here on the Org about the rumors from accident to suicide.

nelcp777 said:

1Sasha said:

My sister lived in Eden Prairie at the time. She said the chatter went from an accident in the first days to suicide within weeks.

I heard similar comments here on the Org about the rumors from accident to suicide.

P had 15 perc's from Dr. S the day he left for Atlanta, and 11 were found at PP.

He also had the 10 Tylenol codeine from Kirk's dentist (which were found in the PP dumpster.)


Initially, P told the ER doc he took 3 perc's and 1 "mystery pill" from the Bayer bottle.

P later told the ER doc he took 2 perc's, and 2 "mystery pills."

The question becomes why would P take the "mystery pills" instead of taking a legitimate script for perc's?

Also, I cant find the blood results from Dr. S. Does anyone know if they were released?

[Edited 2/20/19 20:46pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

nelcp777 said:

1Sasha said:

My sister lived in Eden Prairie at the time. She said the chatter went from an accident in the first days to suicide within weeks.

I heard similar comments here on the Org about the rumors from accident to suicide.

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P had 15 perc's from Dr. S the day he left for Atlanta, and 11 were found at PP.

He also had the 10 Tylenol codeine from Kirk's dentist (which were found in the PP dumpster.)


Initially, P told the ER doc he took 3 perc's and 1 "mystery pill" from the Bayer bottle.

P later told the ER doc he took 2 perc's, and 2 "mystery pills."

The question becomes why would P take the "mystery pills" instead of taking a legitimate script for perc's?

Also, I cant find the blood results from Dr. S. Does anyone know if they were released?

[Edited 2/20/19 20:46pm]

Perhaps P knew that the mystery pill was fentanyl. If P was at the fentanyl level, Peres would not suffice. Also, some speculate Moline was his first attempt. I will have to look for the results later today

Lawd Jesus, imagine if he knew and did this on purpose... Would that lead him to meeting Spooky Electric for real?

Astasheiks said:

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Perhaps P knew that the mystery pill was fentanyl. If P was at the fentanyl level, Peres would not suffice. Also, some speculate Moline was his first attempt. I will have to look for the results later today

Lawd Jesus, imagine if he knew and did this on purpose... Would that lead him to meeting Spooky Electric for real?

I am not saying his death was intentional. But, by telling Kirk it was a mystery pill, that helped Prince control had bad his addiction had escalated. Now this is pure speculation on my end. This whole time I was under the thought process that Prince got the pills in Atlanta. The suitcase that contained the CVS bottles makes me think he had them from another time and place.

Where? That is the million dollar question.

From other people in his inner circle, Prince used/asked them to procure pills from him. The same with Kirk. That leads me to believe that Prince had to really know and "trust" the source for Prince to get them directly. The only option is online, and have them delivered to the Country Inn. Delievering them to Paisley would raise a flag or provide a direct link. Also, there were multiple addresses that Prince "owned" - houses, warehouses. He could have used them.

We, as fans, do not have a lot of information on Prince and his "daily" routine.

There is a lot of speculation tha the pills were custom made. For a custom order, is there a minimum quantity? Prince did not have a credit card, at least per his inner circle, so how was this order paid for? Digital currency? Cash?

I also tend to think about Prince's residency in LA. Maybe that was the start to a new supplier. The options seem to be abundant.

I hear what ya saying. Furthermore, anybody calling a pill a "Mystery Pill" to me is crazy! A pill that who knows what the hell is in it, sounds dangerous as hell. And having them delivered to the Country Inn seems like that could be a Red Flag also...hhhhmmm?

For those tracking the Purdue Pharma story, here is a link. Though people were already dying from overdoses of this prescribed medicine, Prince's death brought national attention to the way these drugs were prescribed and used. https://www.statnews.com/...eposition/

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P had 15 perc's from Dr. S the day he left for Atlanta, and 11 were found at PP.

He also had the 10 Tylenol codeine from Kirk's dentist (which were found in the PP dumpster.)


Initially, P told the ER doc he took 3 perc's and 1 "mystery pill" from the Bayer bottle.

P later told the ER doc he took 2 perc's, and 2 "mystery pills."

The question becomes why would P take the "mystery pills" instead of taking a legitimate script for perc's?

Also, I cant find the blood results from Dr. S. Does anyone know if they were released?

[Edited 2/20/19 20:46pm]

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

[Edited 2/21/19 12:42pm]

I was scrubbing the Investigative Report #2, page 84, section 274. Kirk said he cleared out the studio. This is Manuela's interview. She goes on to say that Kirk recalled there was something in Prince's travel bag in the aspirin bottle, but that Kirk had checked the bag while he was cleaning up and didn't see it.

Kirk went on to say that he(Kirk) didn't believe there was anything left for Prince to get and that Kirk cleaned out PP.

So, per Manuela, Kirk accessed the travel bag. This had to happen either before the doctor's appointment or after cos Prince told him, "I can't kick this, I need a drink". That was the night before P died.

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P had 15 perc's from Dr. S the day he left for Atlanta, and 11 were found at PP.

He also had the 10 Tylenol codeine from Kirk's dentist (which were found in the PP dumpster.)


Initially, P told the ER doc he took 3 perc's and 1 "mystery pill" from the Bayer bottle.

P later told the ER doc he took 2 perc's, and 2 "mystery pills."

The question becomes why would P take the "mystery pills" instead of taking a legitimate script for perc's?

Also, I cant find the blood results from Dr. S. Does anyone know if they were released?

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

I am confused because in another area of the report they said they found 10 oxy in the bottle and one loose in the black bag?

Did they release the actual written blood test results? I cant remember.

nelcp777 said:

muchtoofast said:

nelcp777 said:

I was scrubbing the Investigative Report #2, page 84, section 274. Kirk said he cleared out the studio. This is Manuela's interview. She goes on to say that Kirk recalled there was something in Prince's travel bag in the aspirin bottle, but that Kirk had checked the bag while he was cleaning up and didn't see it.

Kirk went on to say that he(Kirk) didn't believe there was anything left for Prince to get and that Kirk cleaned out PP.

So, per Manuela, Kirk accessed the travel bag. This had to happen either before the doctor's appointment or after cos Prince told him, "I can't kick this, I need a drink". That was the night before P died.

Do you have a link to that? I have files but page 84 is all about Dr S so I must not have what you have. Thank you.

I just checked and I am looking at it now. From the Electronics Record #5, Investigative Report #2, page 84. The title of the page is Carver County Sherrif's Office Follow Up Report. Page 84 starts with section 271 and ends with 277. Sections 271 - 275 deal with the conversation with Manuela and Sections 276-277 address the Shaun Powell issue of being a security guard and finding Prince.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

nelcp777 said:

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

I am confused because in another area of the report they said they found 10 oxy in the bottle and one loose in the black bag?

Did they release the actual written blood test results? I cant remember.

The initial interview with Dr S did not provide the blood results. The blood results were revealed when CC pulled Prince's records. This is mentioned on Page 56 of Investigative Report #2.

If you add the 8 full pulls and the 4 half pills, that is 10, plus the 1 loose in the bag, that should be 11. In essence, they did find 10 in the bottle, just not full.

I am tired, but I tripled checked prior to my post and definitetly after. I do not want to give out incorrect information.

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

P had 15 perc's from Dr. S the day he left for Atlanta, and 11 were found at PP.

He also had the 10 Tylenol codeine from Kirk's dentist (which were found in the PP dumpster.)


Initially, P told the ER doc he took 3 perc's and 1 "mystery pill" from the Bayer bottle.

P later told the ER doc he took 2 perc's, and 2 "mystery pills."

The question becomes why would P take the "mystery pills" instead of taking a legitimate script for perc's?

Also, I cant find the blood results from Dr. S. Does anyone know if they were released?

[Edited 2/20/19 20:46pm]

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

[Edited 2/21/19 12:42pm]

And if you're calculating anything with basic conversion tables, Prince was a walking dead man with at least 3-4 times the amount of hydrocodone above what is scientifically accepted as fatal levels of hydrocodone ! Hydrocodone is typically excreted within a 3-4 day window (per its half life) after last usage (contingent upon factors such as metabolism rate, weight and so on.

That test was done on the 20th. That should put us @ around a six-day window from Moline to the time he took the test that revealed the consumption of such a large dose. Give or take 3-4 days for excretion, Prince hammered those pills down between the 16th and the 20th. Riding a bike and having a PP get together ,was nothing more than a quasi attempt to throw the masses into a state of confused bliss. Those who swallowed up the lie, could never believe it was intentional because he planted the seed that said it can't be so.

Prince, by all accounts, should have been dead (3) separate times, within a (7) day period.

Imagine if the medical examiner had all of that information coupled with his own words to Judith, Meron, etc.,? Maybe she did but reserved the right to stick to a strict legal interpretation that is governed by that laws of her state.

Menes said:

nelcp777 said:

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

[Edited 2/21/19 12:42pm]

And if you're calculating anything with basic conversion tables, Prince was a walking dead man with at least 3-4 times the amount of hydrocodone above what is scientifically accepted as fatal levels of hydrocodone ! Hydrocodone is typically excreted within a 3-4 day window (per its half life) after last usage (contingent upon factors such as metabolism rate, weight and so on.

That test was done on the 20th. That should put us @ around a six-day window from Moline to the time he took the test that revealed the consumption of such a large dose. Give or take 3-4 days for excretion, Prince hammered those pills down between the 16th and the 20th. Riding a bike and having a PP get together ,was nothing more than a quasi attempt to throw the masses into a state of confused bliss. Those who swallowed up the lie, could never believe it was intentional because he planted the seed that said it can't be so.

Prince, by all accounts, should have been dead (3) separate times, within a (7) day period.

Imagine if the medical examiner had all of that information coupled with his own words to Judith, Meron, etc.,? Maybe she did but reserved the right to stick to a strict legal interpretation that is governed by that laws of her state.

The Narcan in Moline would've wiped the narcs out of him wouldn't it? So it seems that as soon as he got back home, he was on them again?

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

And if you're calculating anything with basic conversion tables, Prince was a walking dead man with at least 3-4 times the amount of hydrocodone above what is scientifically accepted as fatal levels of hydrocodone ! Hydrocodone is typically excreted within a 3-4 day window (per its half life) after last usage (contingent upon factors such as metabolism rate, weight and so on.

That test was done on the 20th. That should put us @ around a six-day window from Moline to the time he took the test that revealed the consumption of such a large dose. Give or take 3-4 days for excretion, Prince hammered those pills down between the 16th and the 20th. Riding a bike and having a PP get together ,was nothing more than a quasi attempt to throw the masses into a state of confused bliss. Those who swallowed up the lie, could never believe it was intentional because he planted the seed that said it can't be so.

Prince, by all accounts, should have been dead (3) separate times, within a (7) day period.

Imagine if the medical examiner had all of that information coupled with his own words to Judith, Meron, etc.,? Maybe she did but reserved the right to stick to a strict legal interpretation that is governed by that laws of her state.

The Narcan in Moline would've wiped the narcs out of him wouldn't it? So it seems that as soon as he got back home, he was on them again?

I believe the action of narcan is directly related to a reversal of the action of said opioid on the receptor itself. Narcan will last about 30-90 minutes. The amount of drugs in ones system, may outlast the time period for narcan to effectlvely reverse the opioid binding to the receptor. Some may have immediate withdrawals , some may not.

Either way, the urge to use will return . Therein lies the problem of effectively treating an overdose with narcan. It's merely a life saving drug, but does nothing for addiction long term.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

The Narcan in Moline would've wiped the narcs out of him wouldn't it? So it seems that as soon as he got back home, he was on them again?

I believe the action of narcan is directly related to a reversal of the action of said opioid on the receptor itself. Narcan will last about 30-90 minutes. The amount of drugs in ones system, may outlast the time period for narcan to effectlvely reverse the opioid binding to the receptor. Some may have immediate withdrawals , some may not.

Either way, the urge to use will return . Therein lies the problem of effectively treating an overdose with narcan. It's merely a life saving drug, but does nothing for addiction long term.

Right. So the amount in his urine, you are thinking it was deadly even without the fentanyl?

nelcp777 said:

I was scrubbing the Investigative Report #2, page 84, section 274. Kirk said he cleared out the studio. This is Manuela's interview. She goes on to say that Kirk recalled there was something in Prince's travel bag in the aspirin bottle, but that Kirk had checked the bag while he was cleaning up and didn't see it.

Kirk went on to say that he(Kirk) didn't believe there was anything left for Prince to get and that Kirk cleaned out PP.

So, per Manuela, Kirk accessed the travel bag. This had to happen either before the doctor's appointment or after cos Prince told him, "I can't kick this, I need a drink". That was the night before P died.

Nelcp777,

If I'm not mistaken, the only reason the detective knew that the percocets in the bottle were for Prince is because Dr. Schulenberg's notes and interview told them so. I don't remember Kirk volunteering that information , nor do I recall a follow up interview questioning Kirk about why he had done that. Dr.Schulenberg stated the reason he did it.

Also, when the doctor in Moline was given the pills that were in the bag by Kirk, I think a visual test was done when they sent it out for confirmation, but the actual chemical composition test to state unequivocally that it was "x" ,was not revealed. At least that is what I thought they said in the report.I will have to double back and check that.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

I believe the action of narcan is directly related to a reversal of the action of said opioid on the receptor itself. Narcan will last about 30-90 minutes. The amount of drugs in ones system, may outlast the time period for narcan to effectlvely reverse the opioid binding to the receptor. Some may have immediate withdrawals , some may not.

Either way, the urge to use will return . Therein lies the problem of effectively treating an overdose with narcan. It's merely a life saving drug, but does nothing for addiction long term.

Right. So the amount in his urine, you are thinking it was deadly even without the fentanyl?

If you mean the hydrocodone, Yes, 100 percent it was deadly. 3-4 times above what is considered fatal by all accounts. His tolerance level was astonishingly high. We can summise that Prince had developed a chronic pattern of using copious amounts in one setting. You have to understand that he went to that test as a dead man walking on the 20th. Unless I am getting my dates mixed up, this is the day prior to his death and is with Kirk getting things "sorted" out.

Now, what's so fu*** is that Kirk stated that when he (Prince) took the prescribed medication to calm him down ( from the script written by Dr. Schulenberg), it appears that the initial consumption of illicit substances are now beginning to wear off. This would explain his antsy behavior during his time with Kirk. Apparently, the prescribed medication did nothing for Prince. I will have to check the exact time frame but it's before 2000 hours( 8pm) that night. Btw, Dr. Schulenberg knew Prince had been going thru withdrawals from something even prior to the test and this is evidenced by Dr. Schulenberg's words and what he prescribed for Prince.

Now we have more of a pattern of use,and how often he would have had to use ( x amount of days/hours or so before the next time) in order to remain in a state of comfort.

I didn't even get into the other drug ( and the amount) that was in his system ( hydromorphone). Its overkill. If this is an accident, he sure as hell repeated this accidental use of copious amounts of opioids thrice in one week.

[Edited 2/21/19 19:27pm]

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Right. So the amount in his urine, you are thinking it was deadly even without the fentanyl?

If you mean the hydrocodone, Yes, 100 percent it was deadly. 3-4 times above what is considered fatal by all accounts. His tolerance level was astonishingly high. We can summise that Prince had developed a chronic pattern of using copious amounts in one setting. You have to understand that he went to that test as a dead man walking on the 20th. Unless I am getting my dates mixed up, this is the day prior to his death and is with Kirk getting things "sorted" out.

Now, what's so fu*** is that Kirk stated that when he (Prince) took the prescribed medication to calm him down ( from the script written by Dr. Schulenberg), it appears that the initial consumption of illicit substances are now beginning to wear off. This would explain his antsy behavior during his time with Kirk. Apparently, the prescribed medication did nothing for Prince. I will have to check the exact time frame but it's before 2000 hours( 8pm) that night. Btw, Dr. Schulenberg knew Prince had been going thru withdrawals from something even prior to the test and this is evidenced by Dr. Schulenberg's words and what he prescribed for Prince.

Now we have more of a pattern of use,and how often he would have had to use ( x amount of days/hours or so before the next time) in order to remain in a state of comfort.

I didn't even get into the other drug ( and the amount) that was in his system ( hydromorphone). Its overkill. If this is an accident, he sure as hell repeated this accidental use of copious amounts of opioids thrice in one week.

[Edited 2/21/19 19:27pm]

Menes: your picture, painted with a scientific brush, is pulling into focus. It wasn't an accident or a bad batch or murder...it was just the way he rolled towards the end. I think he either ran out of time, or it was an act of desperation because he BELIEVED there was no way out (not believing in rehab) ...no way to get clean and keep HIS version of HIS dignity intact.

It is so ironic to me because it was his laser-focused vision of himself that was the very heart of his genius...but it was so rigid it didn't allow for human fraility: taking a bad path or being scared or ashamed.

Us regular folks deal with this all the time but I don't think Prince did; I think Prince only moved forward.

Thanks for all your contributions and observations.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

If you mean the hydrocodone, Yes, 100 percent it was deadly. 3-4 times above what is considered fatal by all accounts. His tolerance level was astonishingly high. We can summise that Prince had developed a chronic pattern of using copious amounts in one setting. You have to understand that he went to that test as a dead man walking on the 20th. Unless I am getting my dates mixed up, this is the day prior to his death and is with Kirk getting things "sorted" out.

Now, what's so fu*** is that Kirk stated that when he (Prince) took the prescribed medication to calm him down ( from the script written by Dr. Schulenberg), it appears that the initial consumption of illicit substances are now beginning to wear off. This would explain his antsy behavior during his time with Kirk. Apparently, the prescribed medication did nothing for Prince. I will have to check the exact time frame but it's before 2000 hours( 8pm) that night. Btw, Dr. Schulenberg knew Prince had been going thru withdrawals from something even prior to the test and this is evidenced by Dr. Schulenberg's words and what he prescribed for Prince.

Now we have more of a pattern of use,and how often he would have had to use ( x amount of days/hours or so before the next time) in order to remain in a state of comfort.

I didn't even get into the other drug ( and the amount) that was in his system ( hydromorphone). Its overkill. If this is an accident, he sure as hell repeated this accidental use of copious amounts of opioids thrice in one week.

[Edited 2/21/19 19:27pm]

Menes: your picture, painted with a scientific brush, is pulling into focus. It wasn't an accident or a bad batch or murder...it was just the way he rolled towards the end. I think he either ran out of time, or it was an act of desperation because he BELIEVED there was no way out (not believing in rehab) ...no way to get clean and keep HIS version of HIS dignity intact.

It is so ironic to me because it was his laser-focused vision of himself that was the very heart of his genius...but it was so rigid it didn't allow for human fraility: taking a bad path or being scared or ashamed.

Us regular folks deal with this all the time but I don't think Prince did; I think Prince only moved forward.

Thanks for all your contributions and observations.

Hey Bod! How are ya? Thanks to you , Penny and the gang that kept this alive, WE are going to get to the bottom of this.

You are correct in saying it was the way he rolled towards the end. He rolled hard. Extreme, is all I can say. This was a rather hopeless picture once addiction to such powerful substances entered into his life. Which me brings to another rambling post...

I saw something here about Prince ( "the massive fuck up") wanting to be loved and something or the other about Prince being lifted out of the clouds if he heard the words "I love you" (paraphrasing here). As if this was going to stop his addiction? Jesus H.

I have no plausible excuse for these kinds of statements ( I totally don't), but moreso, I dont understand why statements like these aren't called out as bordering on the absurd. It's the type of statement that can give a loved one false hope.

This is addiction. This is a disease. How many times has love cured HIV/AIDS? How about cancer? The common cold? Love is not, nor will ever be the answer to curing addiction. It's not even the precursor to the supposed "cure". I would rather count to (1) billion , (10) times over, than to count on love as a cure for addiction.

What science has continued to do,is research the proper chemical composition that the brain will be able to use in order to modify the way a receptor behaves after it is no longer being bombarded with opioids, or any other addictive substances. Even then, a simple trigger can reverse that entire process and the hamster will start spinning in that dreaded wheel again. That spirirt/love business might be all well and good, but the brain is controlled by science ( chemical processes) and information. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do we not know what monkeys and rats in labs do when addicted to substances a lot less potent than opioids (cocaine)? At some point , low hanging instinctual fruit such as hunger , thirst, sex, play, companionship is replaced with the onslaught of one thought- that of when the drug will be administered. This perpetual thought process feeds transmitters and synapses that inevitably leads to death.

These lab animals have no say so in this, nor they do they have the intellectual capacity to understand addiction. Yet, they behave in a very simliar way as we do when a particular region of the brain is affected .

Hello? Prince's brain is no different with regards to addiction. This is not about sprituality, trust, money, wills, fans, albums, music, sex, betrayal or any other excuses we can think of. This is a brain that is now wired far differently from that of a brain not suffering from addiction. Whomever Prince was prior to his addiction, is certainly not the same person who died because of it. The only thing that mattered to Prince ( and to addicts in general) was/is the time of day'/night that one can feed the addiction. Nothing else mattered/matters.

[Edited 2/21/19 21:56pm]

If anyone has the time and can let me know which of the pills was the crushed up or half pill in the tissue next to the bed, I would appreciate that very much. Also, were all of the half pills the fentanyl pills ? 'Till tomorrow.

I think he decided to die, and it was only the last time that worked. My questions have been: who procured for him, what was the involvement of Kirk and Meron in his final months in sustaining his behavior, what happened to his money - who controlled it and where did it go, why was he left alone that last night, and what precipitated the call to Kornfeld's office - if they didn't call months earlier, why now? Would "they" need to keep him alive for any purpose? For a long time I felt there was a terminal or incurable disease he was suffering from, because of the dramatic change in his appearance. Since we don't have the autopsy report, we cannot know if there was an underlying medical condition. But nothing adds up here. Nothing.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes: your picture, painted with a scientific brush, is pulling into focus. It wasn't an accident or a bad batch or murder...it was just the way he rolled towards the end. I think he either ran out of time, or it was an act of desperation because he BELIEVED there was no way out (not believing in rehab) ...no way to get clean and keep HIS version of HIS dignity intact.

It is so ironic to me because it was his laser-focused vision of himself that was the very heart of his genius...but it was so rigid it didn't allow for human fraility: taking a bad path or being scared or ashamed.

Us regular folks deal with this all the time but I don't think Prince did; I think Prince only moved forward.

Thanks for all your contributions and observations.

Hey Bod! How are ya? Thanks to you , Penny and the gang that kept this alive, WE are going to get to the bottom of this.

You are correct in saying it was the way he rolled towards the end. He rolled hard. Extreme, is all I can say. This was a rather hopeless picture once addiction to such powerful substances entered into his life. Which me brings to another rambling post...

I saw something here about Prince ( "the massive fuck up") wanting to be loved and something or the other about Prince being lifted out of the clouds if he heard the words "I love you" (paraphrasing here). As if this was going to stop his addiction? Jesus H.

I have no plausible excuse for these kinds of statements ( I totally don't), but moreso, I dont understand why statements like these aren't called out as bordering on the absurd. It's the type of statement that can give a loved one false hope.

This is addiction. This is a disease. How many times has love cured HIV/AIDS? How about cancer? The common cold? Love is not, nor will ever be the answer to curing addiction. It's not even the precursor to the supposed "cure". I would rather count to (1) billion , (10) times over, than to count on love as a cure for addiction.

What science has continued to do,is research the proper chemical composition that the brain will be able to use in order to modify the way a receptor behaves after it is no longer being bombarded with opioids, or any other addictive substances. Even then, a simple trigger can reverse that entire process and the hamster will start spinning in that dreaded wheel again. That spirirt/love business might be all well and good, but the brain is controlled by science ( chemical processes) and information. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do we not know what monkeys and rats in labs do when addicted to substances a lot less potent than opioids (cocaine)? At some point , low hanging instinctual fruit such as hunger , thirst, sex, play, companionship is replaced with the onslaught of one thought- that of when the drug will be administered. This perpetual thought process feeds transmitters and synapses that inevitably leads to death.

These lab animals have no say so in this, nor they do they have the intellectual capacity to understand addiction. Yet, they behave in a very simliar way as we do when a particular region of the brain is affected .

Hello? Prince's brain is no different with regards to addiction. This is not about sprituality, trust, money, wills, fans, albums, music, sex, betrayal or any other excuses we can think of. This is a brain that is now wired far differently from that of a brain not suffering from addiction. Whomever Prince was prior to his addiction, is certainly not the same person who died because of it. The only thing that mattered to Prince ( and to addicts in general) was/is the time of day'/night that one can feed the addiction. Nothing else mattered/matters.

[Edited 2/21/19 21:56pm]

FWIW, I didn't get that out of what funksterr said. That is, that someone could stop an addiction by simply waving the wand of "I love you" words.

I strongly agree that genetic predisposition and the power of addiction's biology are HUGELY trivialized, and that is a HUGE problem.

In fact, I think that is, perhaps ironically, one of the environmental forces that promotes danger in ways such as pushing people with this medical condition to hide.

At least in the U.S. where I am, most of the biggest causes of suffering and disease are conditions that are significantly affected by genetics, biology and environment.

Yet addiction, and psychiatric conditions that often but by no means always accompany it, seem almost singled out for relative chastising of the sufferer and family/friends/loved ones.

Whatever the condition, people are people, and rarely to never is the condition managed perfectly rightly, or completely wrongly, by people involved. There are infintite individual stories in between these things. Can praise and criticism be warranted within these individual stories? Sure. And the SAME is true for the other conditions referred to above.

Addiction can affect the brain in a way nothing short of extreme. Underestimating that is a huge problem. At the same time, each story plays out differently, and loved ones, work or other things in life often do matter to an addicted person. I don't think it's true that "nothing else matters" to "addicts in general." But again, underestimating the power of the medical condition is enormously destructive. IMO, that this condition can affect the lives of people who often DO care for things like work and loved ones is, in itself, a striking illustration of its power.

I have a theory that a reason behind many with medical conditions gravitating to support groups is that they provide something unique and powerful. The people there know how powerful the condition is, how hard it is, first hand. People who don't have first hand knowledge, yet go ahead and trivialize, are everywhere out there. Most people in these groups also strongly believe in doing what a person has to do to support health.

Menes said:

nelcp777 said:

The results from 4-20 from Dr. S are:

Hydrocodone 253 ngl/ml

Hydroporphone 87 ng/ml

This is from the Investigative Report #2 file, page 56, section 107. Going on in Section 108, Dr. Strobel tested the above sample for fentanyl and the test failed to show any fentanyl in Prince's system.

Also, per the Investigative Report #2 file, 8 percocets and 4 half percocet pills were found in the Ondansetron HC prescription bottle. This is page 45, section 44. The percect prescription was in Kirk's name and was for 15 pills.

Edited to add, another percocet pill was found loosely in the black bag and tested positive as oxycodone. Investigate Report #2,m page 67, 3rd paragraph.

[Edited 2/21/19 12:42pm]

And if you're calculating anything with basic conversion tables, Prince was a walking dead man with at least 3-4 times the amount of hydrocodone above what is scientifically accepted as fatal levels of hydrocodone ! Hydrocodone is typically excreted within a 3-4 day window (per its half life) after last usage (contingent upon factors such as metabolism rate, weight and so on.

That test was done on the 20th. That should put us @ around a six-day window from Moline to the time he took the test that revealed the consumption of such a large dose. Give or take 3-4 days for excretion, Prince hammered those pills down between the 16th and the 20th. Riding a bike and having a PP get together ,was nothing more than a quasi attempt to throw the masses into a state of confused bliss. Those who swallowed up the lie, could never believe it was intentional because he planted the seed that said it can't be so.

Prince, by all accounts, should have been dead (3) separate times, within a (7) day period.

Imagine if the medical examiner had all of that information coupled with his own words to Judith, Meron, etc.,? Maybe she did but reserved the right to stick to a strict legal interpretation that is governed by that laws of her state.

Wow! Wow, Just Wow!

Menes said:

If anyone has the time and can let me know which of the pills was the crushed up or half pill in the tissue next to the bed, I would appreciate that very much. Also, were all of the half pills the fentanyl pills ? 'Till tomorrow.

Hi Menes:

Good to see you are back.

I checked Investigation Report No. 1 (Pages 14-15) and it didn't show a pill in tissue next to the bed.

There were pills mentioned found in tissue paper in the jewelry box. Would this be the pills you are referring to?