https://theblast.com/prin...-producer/

That is good news!

If he would have won he would probably milk those recordings Pepe Willie style.

It may have been their legal right to do so, but this is definitely not good news.

More litigation to stop us hearing music nothing much to celebrate there. Thank you for posting the link though Bart.

Is Ian Boxill rich or does this mean his life is over?

Mine would if I had to pay 4M buck to anyone.

Now the Estate can release the original untampered recordings instead of Boxill's tampered and 'finished without Prince's consent or approval' versions that everyone already has.

JorisE73 said:

Dandroppedadime said:

JorisE73 said:

Now the Estate can release the original untampered recordings instead of Boxill's tampered and 'finished without Prince's consent or approval' versions that everyone already has.

I was under the impression the tracks weren’t finished in the first place, and Prince would probably of added strings etc anyway. I’d still be happy to hear the untampered versions, but they may actually sound a bit rough in comparison to the Boxhill mixes.

If the Estate would allow that then what would stop them from hiring current producers to "finish" unfinished vault tracks?
Just imagine Timbaland "finishing" some vault tracks with guest raps by Missy Elliot or Justin Timberlake, or that Black Eyed Peas guy "finishing" tracks by adding Fergie and making songs a duet. The thought alone of this happening makes me sick to my stomach so I'm glad the Estate got these "finished" tracks back.

coldasice said:

JorisE73 said:

That is good news!

If he would have won he would probably milk those recordings Pepe Willie style.

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I think this is a thick layer of shame on The Estate !

The amount of money awarded is utterly overexagerated.

Come on ! How many units were sold officially of 'Deliverance', honestly ?

Sure you cannot release stuff like that.

Looks like this is what The Estate/family - oh and probably their lawyers even more - actually loves; grabbing money.

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[Edited 11/14/18 2:42am]

This is very sad indeed.

Prince would often not recognise nor credit the work that other people contributed to the music. I am sure this producer gave a lot and probably received little or nothing in return.

The Estate should have come to an agreement to continue to release the recordings in a ligitimate manner. They should be working with people and not against them.

I hope the appeal reduces the amount awarded.

After all, he could just pay $1 per week as I am sure the Estate wouldn't want to see this man homeless.

Courts may as well make this ruling 10 trillion. You can't get blood out of a stone.

Don't feel sorry for this producer. He had no business releasing the song and now it has back fired. He would have never release the song if Prince was alive. And can't believe people buy that this guy was not paid for his work or whatever. You complaing now that your behind got sued and Prince is not hear to defend himself.

$1M in fees!?

What efficieny does that display?

Or do we simply see some inflated figures?

4M is ridiculous. That's what Prince made off of the sales of Purple Rain for God's sake, according to him!

I may be in the minority here but, the Deliverance project is the only posthumously released music that I feel is up to his standard, and worthy of release. The Purple Rain set with the embarrassingly varying audio quality, and the Piano and Microphone 83 set, with the outright SHIT audio quality, both fell very very short.

OperatingThetan said:

coldasice said:

I always wondered why people cared about these songs so much. I never even listened to them & never considered them Prince tracks once I heard they were unfinished originally. Besides if Prince cared for them he woulda kept them in his possession.

These songs were originally intended by Prince for the Planet Earth album and were titled 'Man Opera'.

I don't buy Boxhill's assertion they were 'unfinished'. He added production so he could credit himself as 'co-producer' and justify the release.

Raw or not, I'd still like to hear the original versions, without Boxhill's additions and alterations.

I agree. I've listened to this stuff a lot and everything I hear sounds like Prince.

If there's stuff that ISN'T Prince, then Prince should have used this guy a lot more, because dang he was good at sounding like Prince.

WTAF! - totally OTT fine. What does he do if he can't pay it?

The Deliverance EP was / is a thing of utter beauty. If the estate & their advisors had anything resembling common sense & commercial ability they should have released it properly, fra & wide.

sonshine said:

$4 million is obscene.

Maybe not.

This award was first levied by an arbitrator, which means a jury was not involved. It appears from the article that a judge has confirmed the arbitrator's ruling, but hasn't signed the judgement yet.

$960,287.65 was awarded for legal costs and other fees. When you ask for legal fees from the other side, you generally have to submit your paperwork proving how much you charged. It'd better be accurate because if it isn't, then you (the attorney) can be sanctioned and that is a very bad thing.

Now, you may say you are a $500/hour lawyer when you're really a $150/hour lawyer but that one is usually defendable. The hours you say you put in? Those had better be very well documented.

The remaining $3 million is classified as an "award". Nowhere in the article did I see that any of that was classified as punitive damages. A punitive damage award is a "penalty" assessed to the loser as a way of scaring him and others from trying the same thing again with another person. I don't think an arbitrator can even assess punitive damages.

So if none of the $3 million was punitive, then it had to be actual damages. That means the Prince estate either had to show: (1) that's how much Boxhill actually made from selling "Deliverance"; or (2) that's how much the Prince estate actually lost because of the sales Boxhill made.

Whichever it is, it's pretty hard to just make up a number out of thin air and say, "That's my actual damage". In a case like this, both sides would probably have hired expert witnesses who would have substantiated their calculation of the money derived from Boxhill's sales of "Deliverance".

That's been my experience, anyway.

RodeoSchro said:

sonshine said:

$4 million is obscene.

Maybe not.

This award was first levied by an arbitrator, which means a jury was not involved. It appears from the article that a judge has confirmed the arbitrator's ruling, but hasn't signed the judgement yet.

$960,287.65 was awarded for legal costs and other fees. When you ask for legal fees from the other side, you generally have to submit your paperwork proving how much you charged. It'd better be accurate because if it isn't, then you (the attorney) can be sanctioned and that is a very bad thing.

Now, you may say you are a $500/hour lawyer when you're really a $150/hour lawyer but that one is usually defendable. The hours you say you put in? Those had better be very well documented.

The remaining $3 million is classified as an "award". Nowhere in the article did I see that any of that was classified as punitive damages. A punitive damage award is a "penalty" assessed to the loser as a way of scaring him and others from trying the same thing again with another person. I don't think an arbitrator can even assess punitive damages.

So if none of the $3 million was punitive, then it had to be actual damages. That means the Prince estate either had to show: (1) that's how much Boxhill actually made from selling "Deliverance"; or (2) that's how much the Prince estate actually lost because of the sales Boxhill made.

Whichever it is, it's pretty hard to just make up a number out of thin air and say, "That's my actual damage". In a case like this, both sides would probably have hired expert witnesses who would have substantiated their calculation of the money derived from Boxhill's sales of "Deliverance".

That's been my experience, anyway.

How does a lawyer document their working hours to either client or judge? They're working the case alone in their office, they could just as well be playing video games or working on another case.

databank said:

RodeoSchro said:

Maybe not.

This award was first levied by an arbitrator, which means a jury was not involved. It appears from the article that a judge has confirmed the arbitrator's ruling, but hasn't signed the judgement yet.

$960,287.65 was awarded for legal costs and other fees. When you ask for legal fees from the other side, you generally have to submit your paperwork proving how much you charged. It'd better be accurate because if it isn't, then you (the attorney) can be sanctioned and that is a very bad thing.

Now, you may say you are a $500/hour lawyer when you're really a $150/hour lawyer but that one is usually defendable. The hours you say you put in? Those had better be very well documented.

The remaining $3 million is classified as an "award". Nowhere in the article did I see that any of that was classified as punitive damages. A punitive damage award is a "penalty" assessed to the loser as a way of scaring him and others from trying the same thing again with another person. I don't think an arbitrator can even assess punitive damages.

So if none of the $3 million was punitive, then it had to be actual damages. That means the Prince estate either had to show: (1) that's how much Boxhill actually made from selling "Deliverance"; or (2) that's how much the Prince estate actually lost because of the sales Boxhill made.

Whichever it is, it's pretty hard to just make up a number out of thin air and say, "That's my actual damage". In a case like this, both sides would probably have hired expert witnesses who would have substantiated their calculation of the money derived from Boxhill's sales of "Deliverance".

That's been my experience, anyway.

How does a lawyer document their working hours to either client or judge? They're working the case alone in their office, they could just as well be playing video games or working on another case.

True. Usually the bill contains a description of the work product or activity associated with the billing. And if someone gets really mad, the judge can make the attorney produce all his billings for a particular time, in order to see if he billed multiple clients for the same time period, etc.

RodeoSchro said:

databank said:

How does a lawyer document their working hours to either client or judge? They're working the case alone in their office, they could just as well be playing video games or working on another case.

True. Usually the bill contains a description of the work product or activity associated with the billing. And if someone gets really mad, the judge can make the attorney produce all his billings for a particular time, in order to see if he billed multiple clients for the same time period, etc.

Still, I find it crazy that one can charge by the hour if clients have no way of knowing. It involes a lot of trust. I can't think of any other job where it's like that. Normally if you work unsupervized you charge fixed fees for specific tasks/results.

databank said:

RodeoSchro said:

True. Usually the bill contains a description of the work product or activity associated with the billing. And if someone gets really mad, the judge can make the attorney produce all his billings for a particular time, in order to see if he billed multiple clients for the same time period, etc.

Still, I find it crazy that one can charge by the hour if clients have no way of knowing. It involes a lot of trust. I can't think of any other job where it's like that. Normally if you work unsupervized you charge fixed fees for specific tasks/results.

LOL, yeah. But remember - in America, lawyers make all the laws!

JorisE73 said:

Now the Estate can release the original untampered recordings instead of Boxill's tampered and 'finished without Prince's consent or approval' versions that everyone already has.

Does anyone think the estate will do that?

TheEnglishGent said:

JorisE73 said:

Now the Estate can release the original untampered recordings instead of Boxill's tampered and 'finished without Prince's consent or approval' versions that everyone already has.

Does anyone think the estate will do that?

Maybe in Year 99 of Tyka's 100 Year Plan.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

OperatingThetan said: