Has anyone been able to decipher the 'poem' Prince is singing on this song?
Hearing it backwards/forewards is really interesting. When the Prince piece is more clear, it sounds pretty hot

Yesterday I had a dream

he came 2 me and he said...

Shortberry Strawcake – 4:46 (Sheila E., Jesse Johnson)

A steamy sexy instrumental

.

Sheila E. – lead vocals, percussion, director Jesse Johnson – guitars

The Starr ★ Company

.

Shortberry Strawcake was nominated at the 27th annual Grammy Awards (1985) in the category 'Best R&B instrumental performance' (which was won by Sound-System by Herbie Hancock).

.

.

Initial tracking took place on 9 January 1984 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (four days after Oliver's House and The Belle Of St. Mark), and the song was originally intended for Apollonia 6 until Prince began to work with Sheila E. in February 1984, at which time he set the song aside for her. Sheila E.'s percussion was recorded in the first few days of April 1984 at Sunset Sound. Some distorted and backmasked vocals by Prince can be heard in the background of the track, marking the earliest Prince-related release to feature backmasked lyrics (released three weeks before Purple Rain, which also contained some).

-PrinceVault

Prince credited Jesse Johnson on this one because he used Jesse's guitar.

But Jesse was involved on The Belle of St Mark

According to Susan Rogers, "Prince asked Jesse if it would be ok that he gave Jesse writing credit on one of Sheila's songs. Jesse said, 'ok i guess so. What's the name of the song?' Prince said, 'Shortberry Strawcake. bye bye.' We didn't think anymore about it until the record came out and Jesse heard 'The Belle of St. Mark', which was based on the rhythm track of a song written by Jesse. HE played me the cassette of his song, and he had played it for Prince a long time ago, and Prince remembered the song and wrote a new song based on it for Sheila. Jesse was very offened! Prince would sometimes take a credit away from someone in a legitimate area and apply it in an illegitimate area".

backwards it sounds like XXX carousel music

This was recently discussed on the Org. There are some bits that people have been able to decipher from the song, but overall it's almost impossible to figure out. I took the track and EQ'd the fuck out of it and couldn't make out anything. I'd say it is one of the bigger mysteries in Prince music.

As far as Prince fucking Jesse over, this is not new. Prince was very hostile toward The Time near the end of their run. He took them off the Triple Threat tour bill in bigger cities, not allowing them to play the show. He was a Svengali and I blame him for the breakup of The Time more than anything/one else.

I don't know that I'd call "The Belle of St. Mark" a hit. It was a single, at best. It didn't crack the top 20 in the US on any chart (and in fact charted lower on the R&B chart, twice as many spots lower than it did on the top 100). The highest it hit was #5 in New Zealand. It was not a "hit".

TrivialPursuit said:

This was recently discussed on the Org. There are some bits that people have been able to decipher from the song, but overall it's almost impossible to figure out. I took the track and EQ'd the fuck out of it and couldn't make out anything. I'd say it is one of the bigger mysteries in Prince music.

As far as Prince fucking Jesse over, this is not new. Prince was very hostile toward The Time near the end of their run. He took them off the Triple Threat tour bill in bigger cities, not allowing them to play the show. He was a Svengali and I blame him for the breakup of The Time more than anything/one else.

I don't know that I'd call "The Belle of St. Mark" a hit. It was a single, at best. It didn't crack the top 20 in the US on any chart (and in fact charted lower on the R&B chart, twice as many spots lower than it did on the top 100). The highest it hit was #5 in New Zealand. It was not a "hit".

Still a lot of money in those days, and the album was considered successful if not a hit. Between this and the songs on Ice Cream Castle (also played in the PR film), Jesse probably lost hundreds of thousands if not more.

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.
But whatever the age excuse, I can't help but wonder what could have been:
Prince keeping good relationships with Jam & Lewis, and making them produce (and cast) PP's records.
Now that would have turned PPR into a kind of Stax or Motown (imagine JJ putting out "Rhythm Nation 1814" on PPR... TRC would have gone out sooner. TRC isn't really about JW, it's his most biographical statement about the afro-american life strugglings, as a person and as a community. And Prince coping with being, unless proved otherwise, the century's sole recipient of all pop's skills rolled into one, hence the big-as-a-balloon "Chosen One"). But I derail.

But let's not turn a topic about a masterpiece into yet another Prince's trials.
This is the bold arrival of the instrumental form on a Prince record (educated people will agree protegee records around this era were exhausting pipes for an overheating brain), announcing Prince the aftershow jazz club jammer, announcing Madhouse. And it's not all Jesse's guitars.

As for the other masterpiece (the LP's side A is simply astounding), TBOSM may very well be like "Kiss" or the coda of IWBYL. The rhythm track is a strong backbone, but the Buddy Holly / Macca inspired verses and bridge are pure Prince. And the bridge alone, like in "Dirty Mind" and "Manic Monday", changes everything.
Prince's use of the calliope at the end was enough to tramautize pop producers for half a decade. Like the notorious SOTT tunes, if fades out right when it's taking off, the perfect example of Prince's generosity when it came to recording music. Copyright rights aside, apparently.

Aw c'm'on, now you stained it all with greed!

[Edited 10/4/18 3:58am]

bonatoc said:

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.
But whatever the age excuse, I can't help but wonder what could have been:
Prince keeping good relationships with Jam & Lewis, and making them produce (and cast) PP's records.
Now that would have turned PPR into a kind of Stax or Motown (imagine JJ putting out "Rhythm Nation 1814" on PPR... TRC would have gone out sooner. TRC isn't really about JW, it's his most biographical statement about the afro-american life strugglings, as a person and as a community. And Prince coping with being, unless proved otherwise, the century's sole recipient of all pop's skills rolled into one, hence the big-as-a-balloon "Chosen One"). But I derail.

But let's not turn a topic about a masterpiece into yet another Prince's trials.
This is the bold arrival of the instrumental form on a Prince record (educated people will agree protegee records around this era were exhausting pipes for an overheating brain), announcing Prince the aftershow jazz club jammer, announcing Madhouse. And it's not all Jesse's guitars.

As for the other masterpiece (the LP's side A is simply astounding), TBOSM may very well be like "Kiss" or the coda of IWBYL. The rhythm track is a strong backbone, but the Buddy Holly / Macca inspired verses and bridge are pure Prince. And the bridge alone, like in "Dirty Mind" and "Manic Monday", changes everything.
Prince's use of the calliope at the end was enough to tramautize pop producers for half a decade. Like the notorious SOTT tunes, if fades out right when it's taking off, the perfect example of Prince's generosity when it came to recording music. Copyright rights aside, apparently.

Aw c'm'on, now you stained it all with greed!

[Edited 10/4/18 3:58am]

Yes, this tendency always bothered me. The evolution of “Kiss” seemed like a bit of a dick move on Prince’s part as well. It’s not as though he didn’t have enough talent himself – he should always have given due credit to those around him. As an artist, I’d feel like the work was tainted if I ever did such a thing.

Anyway, I’ve always loved “Shortberry Strawcake”. Interesting that it was nominated for a Grammy and came up against Herbie’s “Sound System”- I didn’t know that.

bonatoc said:

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

databank said:

bonatoc said:

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

Jesse said he sings background on 1999 and plays some guitar at the end. And he was shocked to not see his name on the credit, but J J which was a play on Jesse Johnson and Jill Jones

For whatever reason he targeted Jesse more than Morris it seems. Maybe Jesse came across as more sensitive (which I think he is)

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

Jesse said he sings background on 1999 and plays some guitar at the end. And he was shocked to not see his name on the credit, but J J which was a play on Jesse Johnson and Jill Jones

For whatever reason he targeted Jesse more than Morris it seems. Maybe Jesse came across as more sensitive (which I think he is)

Yeah Princevault needs to add this

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

Jesse said he sings background on 1999 and plays some guitar at the end. And he was shocked to not see his name on the credit, but J J which was a play on Jesse Johnson and Jill Jones

For whatever reason he targeted Jesse more than Morris it seems. Maybe Jesse came across as more sensitive (which I think he is)

I think it was cause Jesse challenged him more than others (i.e. talked shit right back to Prince or called him out on things).

TrivialPursuit said:

This was recently discussed on the Org. There are some bits that people have been able to decipher from the song, but overall it's almost impossible to figure out. I took the track and EQ'd the fuck out of it and couldn't make out anything. I'd say it is one of the bigger mysteries in Prince music.

Theorically the multitrack still exists in the vault, so Michael Howe is currently the only person in the world who could isolate it, play it backwards again and tell us.

TrivialPursuit said:

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jesse said he sings background on 1999 and plays some guitar at the end. And he was shocked to not see his name on the credit, but J J which was a play on Jesse Johnson and Jill Jones

For whatever reason he targeted Jesse more than Morris it seems. Maybe Jesse came across as more sensitive (which I think he is)

I think it was cause Jesse challenged him more than others (i.e. talked shit right back to Prince or called him out on things).

Surrounding ourselves with sycophants and yes-men is never a good idea.

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said:

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

It's got nothing to do with his age (at 25 you're not a kid anymore) and everything with his ego. As Quentin Tarantino said: "Great artists steal. They don't do hommages."

We're kids up until around 30 in this day and age. Prince was a kid in 1984.

I'm not aware of Prince ever doing it again after 1990 or so, so I think he definitely matured when it comes to messing up with people's credits and royalties.

fen said:

bonatoc said:

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.
But whatever the age excuse, I can't help but wonder what could have been:
Prince keeping good relationships with Jam & Lewis, and making them produce (and cast) PP's records.
Now that would have turned PPR into a kind of Stax or Motown (imagine JJ putting out "Rhythm Nation 1814" on PPR... TRC would have gone out sooner. TRC isn't really about JW, it's his most biographical statement about the afro-american life strugglings, as a person and as a community. And Prince coping with being, unless proved otherwise, the century's sole recipient of all pop's skills rolled into one, hence the big-as-a-balloon "Chosen One"). But I derail.

But let's not turn a topic about a masterpiece into yet another Prince's trials.
This is the bold arrival of the instrumental form on a Prince record (educated people will agree protegee records around this era were exhausting pipes for an overheating brain), announcing Prince the aftershow jazz club jammer, announcing Madhouse. And it's not all Jesse's guitars.

As for the other masterpiece (the LP's side A is simply astounding), TBOSM may very well be like "Kiss" or the coda of IWBYL. The rhythm track is a strong backbone, but the Buddy Holly / Macca inspired verses and bridge are pure Prince. And the bridge alone, like in "Dirty Mind" and "Manic Monday", changes everything.
Prince's use of the calliope at the end was enough to tramautize pop producers for half a decade. Like the notorious SOTT tunes, if fades out right when it's taking off, the perfect example of Prince's generosity when it came to recording music. Copyright rights aside, apparently.

Aw c'm'on, now you stained it all with greed!

[Edited 10/4/18 3:58am]

Yes, this tendency always bothered me. The evolution of “Kiss” seemed like a bit of a dick move on Prince’s part as well. It’s not as though he didn’t have enough talent himself – he should always have given due credit to those around him. As an artist, I’d feel like the work was tainted if I ever did such a thing.

Anyway, I’ve always loved “Shortberry Strawcake”. Interesting that it was nominated for a Grammy and came up against Herbie’s “Sound System”- I didn’t know that.

You're right. I'll be damned.

[Edited 10/4/18 11:50am]

databank said:

bonatoc said:

It's sad to witness Prince in these kind of behaviours. Keep in mind this is a guy under 30.

It's sad but at the same time quite interesting to know that in most cases it was more out of malice than greed. All things considered, as you say, he was just a kid, and it only happened a handful of times, it's not like he made a habit out of it. He also gave away more credits and royalties than he stole. So while none of this makes it right, those rare cases certainly do not define Prince's methods as a songwriter. What it says, at worst, is that he was a competitive little prick who couldn't forget anyone leaving his ship at this early stage of his career. I may love him even more for that

[Edited 10/4/18 7:26am]

What can I say, I'm with you.

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said: It's got nothing to do with his age (at 25 you're not a kid anymore) and everything with his ego. As Quentin Tarantino said: "Great artists steal. They don't do hommages."

We're kids up until around 30 in this day and age. Prince was a kid in 1984.

I'm not aware of Prince ever doing it again after 1990 or so, so I think he definitely matured when it comes to messing up with people's credits and royalties.

Rosie Gaines fell out with Prince as a result too

I thought something similar happened with Morris Hayes

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jesse said he sings background on 1999 and plays some guitar at the end. And he was shocked to not see his name on the credit, but J J which was a play on Jesse Johnson and Jill Jones

For whatever reason he targeted Jesse more than Morris it seems. Maybe Jesse came across as more sensitive (which I think he is)

I think it was cause Jesse challenged him more than others (i.e. talked shit right back to Prince or called him out on things).

I thought a lot of them back then did, the Time and his band

That's probably why that 1980-1986 period was so productive too

Maybe the battle of the colors Pink vs Purple, Prince focused on Jesse in that way

NorthC said:

TrivialPursuit said:

This was recently discussed on the Org. There are some bits that people have been able to decipher from the song, but overall it's almost impossible to figure out. I took the track and EQ'd the fuck out of it and couldn't make out anything. I'd say it is one of the bigger mysteries in Prince music.

As far as Prince fucking Jesse over, this is not new. Prince was very hostile toward The Time near the end of their run. He took them off the Triple Threat tour bill in bigger cities, not allowing them to play the show. He was a Svengali and I blame him for the breakup of The Time more than anything/one else.

I don't know that I'd call "The Belle of St. Mark" a hit. It was a single, at best. It didn't crack the top 20 in the US on any chart (and in fact charted lower on the R&B chart, twice as many spots lower than it did on the top 100). The highest it hit was #5 in New Zealand. It was not a "hit".

It was #5 in the Dutch top 40. I'd call that a hit. For whatever reason, Sheila E was the most succesful of Prince's side projects over here.

It's like everyone understood (the Queen being a little late) this was a Prince song.
Let's keep in mind that all protegees accepted to be protegees. What I mean by that is any young talented musician would be honored and out of his mind to be able to collaborate with Prince, as effervescent as he was in his twenties.
What impresses me is that, in some ways, he was able to keep his head cool for four years, before the TBA debacle.
It was not like stardom wasn't welcome, but Prince never seemed to ask more than to be judged by the quality of his work.
When you look at the global output between 1981 and 1987 and consider his real commitment to his own albums, protegees albums and tours, it's no wonder you signed, it was a whirlwind, the guy never stopped, and we were all in awe when the first bootlegs surfaced: you mean there's MORE?

Honestly, being a Prince fan, with the singles, the albums, and his protegees, living these times, man...
I remember washing the dishes and hearing for the first time "A Love Bizarre" in the living room: the flangered hi-hat, Eddie on the sax, I mean imagine a hound dog on coke hearing a rabbit's tail brushing a bush a hundred yeards away.
"Man, it's Prince!" and you run your hands all soaped and foamy and you see this hot latina goddess, and you see this guy, and you know it's Prince singing, then why is there this other guy, what the fuck is he doing man this is too good.

What he was doing? He was putting out more albums a year than anyone else.
And his passion for the dilettantes brought passion to the records, instead of vocal pyrotechnics and perfect pitch. "Anyone can sing" is not just a line in "Now", it's the rock spirit, right there. Passion and personal commitment was all that seemed to matter. It still astounds me he made all of these records with folks of the Twin Cities for the most part, childhood friends for Sonny. It really wasn't some sterile isolationism, it was no retreat. It probably was the only way to focus on what you do, instead of in L.A. or N.Y., where what you are (or seem to be) counts as much, and is even a career plan for a lot.

On a human level, that's what I'm talking about when I say he managed to enjoy stardom and keep it at bay at the same time: "The Cross" and "Sign O' The Times" don't come from a man who's attending fashion shows. You can still feel the young heart in Prince, these are songs that come from the bone, when Prince was still among us and the souvenir of the Hard Life Years was not too far away. I really think it was a good move for Prince to stay in his hometown.

There is a lot to forgive in how Prince handled the nineties. It was clunky at times, and he looked all paranoid, and for a brief period even hardcore fans dug their friends jokes at him, but it took big, great balls on fire to trash away not only the Prince who wants to please everyone, but to reinvent himself musically and kiss goodbye to his back catalogue for a decade, when he could have easily go to Saint-Barth and sip margaritas for the rest of this long life with a dozen of his hits airplay royalties alone (don't forget that when, say, Huey Lewis makes a buck, Prince makes four, as composer, writer and producer).

The guy could have written sappy TMBGITW's for the rest of his days and make a fortune working a few weeks a year. But no, he shows the majors the finger, starts it all back from scratch, gets the good side of the digital, rediscovers the club life, and traverses his "tunnel decade" at full speed, like a golden symbol-shaped Love Missile F1-11, Marshalls on 11. With his pals, not record session sharks. With big money out of the window, but the stage has to have this gigantic ode to feminity, see?

Love or Money? "You gotta live 4 love" seemed to be Prince's only response.
I still laugh at how he fooled WB. These are all Prince's records. Some of them remind us that anyone can sing.
Other were so strong they didn't need a singer, song titles, nor more than eight days of studio, mixing included.
Long live the instrumental form. A lost art in pop.

[Edited 10/4/18 13:12pm]

Good God, how did a discussion on one of Prince's funkiest tracks ever turn into a discussion about Prince robbing others? The guitar is BLAZING on this cut, and I'm pissed he actually gave Jesse credit, when it was Prince.

.

Also, when a dude says he sung some background and played a little guitar at the end of a song, that doesn't mean those tracks got used, even if he did cut some tracks. What guitar at the end of 1999 is he referring to? Shit, how many people even know that Prince was playing all instruments on most everything on The Time's albums, yet credit was given to the members of The Time?

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

are there prince vocal versions of all sheila albums?

luvsexy4all said:

are there prince vocal versions of all sheila albums?

Of all the songs he wrote, yes.

It's a morphar of can happen in your own life

If we are to say that Prince did the switch-a-roo of the credits because he thought Shortberry Strawcake wasn't gonna be nothing and then it was nominated for a Grammy, then damn, P played himself. And immediately, I think of the interview where P states that nobody can play him. Of course, it makes sense that if anyone did play P, that it would be himself. And, of course, us mortals play ourselves all of the time through our own stupidity. But this motherfucker right here - Prince? P even played himself with Style. Who plays themselves and ends up with a Grammy nomination?

Damn P, you sexy motherfucker.

Speaking of SEXY, this album. I am of the opinion that front to back, this is P's sexiest sounding album. Just, straight hotness, this collection of, well, only six songs. But, taking it in as an album, giving equal consideration to the vocals, lyrics, and music, all six songs are hot like the left sink handle. But no, I've never been able to decipher P on Shortberry Strawcake and I've never wanted to know, really. I like a little misterioso in my Prince.

[Edited 10/5/18 22:06pm]