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Reply #120 posted 09/28/18 10:30pm

Mumio

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RJP1205 said:

So I deleted my message but it was captured...my apologies Mumio, I rethought my comment because it wasn't nice. I would like to explain myself: the OP came across to me as the type of JW zealot I've dealt with my whole life. I was born into a JW family, my earliest memories are always being afraid of not being good enough. I tried to be perfect or God wouldn't save me on judgement day. As a teen I fell in love with a non-JW...I was told by an elder that my prayers were no longer heard by God and I was kicked out, on my own as a child. I tried to keep attending the KH but I was no longer accepted and not included in any events, even important family events. Eventually I stopped going. As an adult I wanted to salvage my relationship with God and started reading the Bible on my own. I learned of Gods love & mercy to ALL and regained my faith. My whole life prior to this was focused on Gods judgement. The same judgment I see from the OP. Also as an adult I found out things that went on in the KH that were swept under the rug & hidden depending on who you are. I have a lot of hurt from my childhood and even as an adult a dysfunctional relationship with my parents and siblings who will not speak to me because I don't attend the KH. Despite the fact that I have stronger faith now than I ever did then. That's my quick version of my long story...as for Prince, I quit following him when I heard he became a JW...I couldn't believe he could be part of them, but he was. I often wondered if he felt fear of being abandoned by God like I did...but I hope his earlier faith in a loving God kept him from that fear. After he died I couldn't get him off my mind and rekindled my love for his music...and here I am. Although to this day, I have never listened to TRC. đź’ś



No apologies necessary RJP1205. Sounds like you've had an unpleasant experience with JW, but I'm glad you've found something that works better for you. Best wishes and glad you came back to his music hug

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #121 posted 09/29/18 1:53am

OperatingTheta
n

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Astasheiks said:



coldasice said:


djchitown said:
I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

He visited in March. He owes you nothing...chill out Stan.


You go there? (the KH he went to)? Also wonder why the Police have a photo of a Christain Bible on his vanity/desk/table and not a JW Bible??? hhhhmmmm eye crysball




There's no reason he shouldn't. JWs have their own translation of the Bible but also read others. It's commonplace. And Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians. Whether others agree or not is a different matter.

My personal observation leads me to conclude Prince may have been fading away or gradually distancing himself from the faith, but a different translation of the Bible isn't evidence of it.
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Reply #122 posted 09/29/18 1:59am

OperatingTheta
n

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violetcrush said:



RJP1205 said:


djchitown said:


Yes JWs are held to a higher standard. I have studied with JWs for 3 years and was an Unbaptized Publisher. JWs don't baptize babies. A person must be intelligent enough to understand that he is entering into a covenant with God. One must either be faithful in marriage or be single and celibate in order to be baptized. If a person is actively engaging in sex or even doing things questionable with a woman like having her spend the night with him at his place, then he will be reprimanded by the JWs. JWs are very protective over Jehovah's Earthly Organization. They will not allow people to act like those in Christendom and sin at night and ask for forgiveness every morning and think that Jehovah approves.



If you love someone and they kill themselves without ever telling you that they are hurting then you and I have the right to be angry with that person. Especially if you felt that the always loved that person unconditionally. They (HE) owed the right to surrender his life into the hands of the Elders of his Hall and inform them that he can't manage his life any longer. As Christians we surrender to God and tell him that we are weak and can't do his will without the assistance of others. That is why we have churches and Kingdom Halls, etc... so that others will surround God's children and offer assistance and protection.



Prince told us "Don't Let the Elevator Bring You Down." So many of his lyrics were telling us how to get through this life. Humility was a trait that I guess Prince didn't have.



Hey DJChiTown, check out yahoo yesterday, Watchtower $35million lawsuit and remind me again how JW's are deserving of a higher standard.


djchitown: JW operates in much the same way as a Cult operation. They pursue folowers who are vulnerable and/or not highly educated. They discourage members from education beyond a highscholl level. There has been controversy about this organization throughout history, and even within the group ittself:


*


"Disagreement with the Watch Tower Society's concept of God's organization figured prominently in events that led to a 1980 purge of high-level members at the group's Brooklyn headquarters. A summary by a Governing Body committee of "wrong teachings" being promoted as "new understandings" included the suggestion that God did not have an organization on earth.[57] Former Governing Body member Raymond Franz, who was expelled as part of the purge, subsequently criticized the Watch Tower concept of organization,[58] claiming the concept—which posits that God does not deal with individuals apart from an organization—has no scriptural support and serves only to reinforce the group's authority structure, with its strong emphasis on human authority.[59] He also claimed that The Watchtower has repeatedly blurred discussions of both Jesus Christ's loyalty to God and the apostles' loyalty to Christ to promote the view that Witnesses should be loyal to the Watch Tower Society.[60]Sociologist Andrew Holden has observed that Witnesses see no distinction between loyalty to Jehovah and to the movement itself,[61] and other researchers have claimed that challenging the views of those higher up the hierarchical ladder is regarded as tantamount to challenging God himself.[62]"


*


"Jehovah's Witnesses are encouraged to make their preaching work the top priority in their life. Higher education is discouraged,[197][198] based on their belief that it is futile to plan for secular advancement in a world that faces imminent destruction, as well as fears about succumbing to "worldly thinking" and concerns that advanced education might lead to a lack of humility or involvement in immorality.[199][200][201] Because evangelistic activities take priority over educational success, young Witnesses rarely progress to college or university,[202] which Holden describes as a source of regret in subsequent years among those who are raised in the organization and later choose to leave.[202] Watch Tower Society publications advise parents to recommend alternatives to university education for their children, suggesting associate degrees from community or technical colleges or short courses in subjects such as office administration, automotive repair, computing, or hairdressing. They urge young Witnesses to pursue higher education only to gain skills to obtain a reasonable living while maintaining flexibility to pursue their "true" vocation, serving God.[203] Author James Penton's major study of the Witnesses, Apocalypse Delayed, noted that of those Witnesses who do progress to university, few are likely to take studies in such areas as the humanities and the social sciences, "disciplines that are most threatening to the Witness world-view".[204]"


*


You seem to be of the assumption that Prince killed himeslf based on your comments above. Where has it been confirmed that Prince killed himself? The confirmed cause of death was "accidental overdose" NOT suicide.

[Edited 9/28/18 9:55am]



Djchitown states that they loved Prince unconditionally, then goes on to judge him and feel 'hurt' and 'betrayed'. That is precisely the opposite of what unconditional love is - a love without conditions or expectations.
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Reply #123 posted 09/29/18 3:34am

Asenath

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

"Lundstrom, (an elder at th hall) who said he last saw Prince a month ago at a church service on March 23

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/25/entertainment/prince-religion-jehovahs-witness/index.html

what lies?

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Reply #124 posted 09/29/18 3:40am

databank

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djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

Pull yourself together, dude.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #125 posted 09/29/18 3:43am

Asenath

djchitown said:

You don't go around and tell folks that you don't have "Fans" you have "Friends" Fans are fanatical... Yes he gave us music but then he began to connect with us on a human level and tell us about Love and Jehovah.

Furthermore, Kirk Johnson and all the others that thought of themselves as his friend should have turned his ass in. If you love someone, you don't let them ride around in cars without a seatbelt when you know that it can save their lives. If I knew of Prince's addiction and I worked with him, then I would have told the leaders of the Kingdom Hall. I would have gone to his sister and told him that either he goes in rehab or I will go tell the world about his addiction.

He could have hated me for the rest of my life but at least I won't have to suffer with the eternal thought that I helped contribute to his death by remaining silent.

He told how he was a "slave" to the industry and wanted to make things transparent. Ok well he should have done the same about his pain and his addiction. He shouldn't have put up the facade that he is invinsible. He bragged about how good he looked at his age but in the inside he was a wreck. So fuck him for being a liar. One day we will learn the truth about why so many women came and went in his life. They probably knew he was a tiny phoney and was condescending. He truly had the Napolean Complex.

But I love him because he is my brother. Spiritually I connected with him.

nod (yellow- hug i know that's coming from a place of hurt smile

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Reply #126 posted 09/29/18 4:32am

databank

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djchitown said:

You don't go around and tell folks that you don't have "Fans" you have "Friends" Fans are fanatical... Yes he gave us music but then he began to connect with us on a human level and tell us about Love and Jehovah.

Furthermore, Kirk Johnson and all the others that thought of themselves as his friend should have turned his ass in. If you love someone, you don't let them ride around in cars without a seatbelt when you know that it can save their lives. If I knew of Prince's addiction and I worked with him, then I would have told the leaders of the Kingdom Hall. I would have gone to his sister and told him that either he goes in rehab or I will go tell the world about his addiction.

He could have hated me for the rest of my life but at least I won't have to suffer with the eternal thought that I helped contribute to his death by remaining silent.

He told how he was a "slave" to the industry and wanted to make things transparent. Ok well he should have done the same about his pain and his addiction. He shouldn't have put up the facade that he is invinsible. He bragged about how good he looked at his age but in the inside he was a wreck. So fuck him for being a liar. One day we will learn the truth about why so many women came and went in his life. They probably knew he was a tiny phoney and was condescending. He truly had the Napolean Complex.

But I love him because he is my brother. Spiritually I connected with him.

Oh God I hadn't read this... eek eek eek

Dude, what you need has nothing to do with Prince: what you need is professional help. You're like, wow, totally disconnected from reality.

I suggest you talk to your loved ones about your emotional issues and ask them for support, then seek a counselor or shrink of some kind (there are many types of therapies, find the one that you feel helps), and that you stay away from the internet for a while as well, because the internet is just adding to one's confusion when one is confused.

However, emotional issues and disconnection from reality is like alcoholism and drugs: you won't get better unless you first accept that you have issues and that what you're experiencing is not normal.

Here you're being totally affected by things and people that, no matter how you're trying to rationalize it, have nothing to do with you, which isn't rational nor sane. And you're in pain. And it's not gonna get any better if you don't do something about it, believe me. So just find a way to heal. You can't go on like that.

Peace hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #127 posted 09/29/18 5:28am

peggyon

databank said:

Oh God I hadn't read this... eek eek eek

Dude, what you need has nothing to do with Prince: what you need is professional help. You're like, wow, totally disconnected from reality.

I suggest you talk to your loved ones about your emotional issues and ask them for support, then seek a counselor or shrink of some kind (there are many types of therapies, find the one that you feel helps), and that you stay away from the internet for a while as well, because the internet is just adding to one's confusion when one is confused.

However, emotional issues and disconnection from reality is like alcoholism and drugs: you won't get better unless you first accept that you have issues and that what you're experiencing is not normal.

Here you're being totally affected by things and people that, no matter how you're trying to rationalize it, have nothing to do with you, which isn't rational nor sane. And you're in pain. And it's not gonna get any better if you don't do something about it, believe me. So just find a way to heal. You can't go on like that.

Peace hug

A bit harsh...let's stop, please.

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Reply #128 posted 09/29/18 5:34am

databank

avatar

peggyon said:

databank said:

Oh God I hadn't read this... eek eek eek

Dude, what you need has nothing to do with Prince: what you need is professional help. You're like, wow, totally disconnected from reality.

I suggest you talk to your loved ones about your emotional issues and ask them for support, then seek a counselor or shrink of some kind (there are many types of therapies, find the one that you feel helps), and that you stay away from the internet for a while as well, because the internet is just adding to one's confusion when one is confused.

However, emotional issues and disconnection from reality is like alcoholism and drugs: you won't get better unless you first accept that you have issues and that what you're experiencing is not normal.

Here you're being totally affected by things and people that, no matter how you're trying to rationalize it, have nothing to do with you, which isn't rational nor sane. And you're in pain. And it's not gonna get any better if you don't do something about it, believe me. So just find a way to heal. You can't go on like that.

Peace hug

A bit harsh...let's stop, please.

Yeah I know but I'm sorry, enough is enough. The internet has this bubble effect of being a place where people will come and say crazy things and, while IRL everyone would tell them that they're losing it, online they always find other confused people to encourage them not to solve their problems. This is no long term solution for the Western civilization. So I'm sorry if my reply sounds harsh but this person has come here and said what they felt they had to say, and as a member of this communbity I feel it's my responsibility to tell them I think they need help. I'm sure they're a nice person, but they're confused and in pain, and I'm not gonna help them or society by telling them they're in their right mind when they're not.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #129 posted 09/29/18 6:36am

Krystalkisses

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peggyon said:



databank said:






Oh God I hadn't read this... eek eek eek


Dude, what you need has nothing to do with Prince: what you need is professional help. You're like, wow, totally disconnected from reality.


I suggest you talk to your loved ones about your emotional issues and ask them for support, then seek a counselor or shrink of some kind (there are many types of therapies, find the one that you feel helps), and that you stay away from the internet for a while as well, because the internet is just adding to one's confusion when one is confused.


However, emotional issues and disconnection from reality is like alcoholism and drugs: you won't get better unless you first accept that you have issues and that what you're experiencing is not normal.


Here you're being totally affected by things and people that, no matter how you're trying to rationalize it, have nothing to do with you, which isn't rational nor sane. And you're in pain. And it's not gonna get any better if you don't do something about it, believe me. So just find a way to heal. You can't go on like that.


Peace hug





A bit harsh...let's stop, please.



I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.
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Reply #130 posted 09/29/18 6:45am

udo

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Genesia said:

Grow the fuck up. Prince owed you nothing.

.

Perhaps a little truth.

Especially about subjects that he spoke up about, especially when that was in opposite directions of what he actually did.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #131 posted 09/29/18 7:01am

violetcrush

Krystalkisses said:

peggyon said:

A bit harsh...let's stop, please.

I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.

Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.

*

This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.

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Reply #132 posted 09/29/18 7:16am

databank

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violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:

peggyon said: I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.

Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.

*

This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.

Thank you.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #133 posted 09/29/18 7:22am

rdhull

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It amazing that someone who's basically shitting on a dead man is being considered for some bs empathy as if theyre even really 'affected'

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #134 posted 09/29/18 7:22am

Krystalkisses

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violetcrush said:



Krystalkisses said:


peggyon said:




A bit harsh...let's stop, please.



I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.


Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.


*


This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.



Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P but since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.
[Edited 9/29/18 7:24am]
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Reply #135 posted 09/29/18 7:39am

violetcrush

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.

*

This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.

Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P nut since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.

The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.

*

So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.

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Reply #136 posted 09/29/18 7:54am

OperatingTheta
n

avatar

Krystalkisses said:

peggyon said:



databank said:






Oh God I hadn't read this... eek eek eek


Dude, what you need has nothing to do with Prince: what you need is professional help. You're like, wow, totally disconnected from reality.


I suggest you talk to your loved ones about your emotional issues and ask them for support, then seek a counselor or shrink of some kind (there are many types of therapies, find the one that you feel helps), and that you stay away from the internet for a while as well, because the internet is just adding to one's confusion when one is confused.


However, emotional issues and disconnection from reality is like alcoholism and drugs: you won't get better unless you first accept that you have issues and that what you're experiencing is not normal.


Here you're being totally affected by things and people that, no matter how you're trying to rationalize it, have nothing to do with you, which isn't rational nor sane. And you're in pain. And it's not gonna get any better if you don't do something about it, believe me. So just find a way to heal. You can't go on like that.


Peace hug





A bit harsh...let's stop, please.



I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.


Did Prince ever claim to be a totally dedicated Jehovah's Witness? Or without challenges in that regard? I always found his references to his faith quite vague, particularly in the last few years leading up to his passing.

You are correct about frustrations in his congregation though and I know for a fact that there were issues in 2006 around the release of 3121. I'm not going to name names or give any further details though as these individuals are still in the faith.
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Reply #137 posted 09/29/18 7:58am

violetcrush

violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P nut since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.

The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.

*

So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.

And I just have to say, from my own "fan" perspective - I have nothing but gratitude and awe for Prince's musical genius and all of the incredible, beautiful music he left us. I also have empathy and sympathy for any struggles he had within his personal life, and the immense physical pain he suffered for years.

*

This man poured his heart and soul out to us within his music. He may have had quirks, vices, control issues, social issues, and relationship issues, but anything he was lacking as a human he gave back in droves to all of us with his music until the very end of his life. When listening to some of his P&M shows I am still in amazement at how incredibly he performed when he was clearly in pain and very physically weak.

*

Most of us did not know him personally, but he always gave us a glimpse of his life within his music, which was very generous. We need to celebrate him as the increcible artist that he was, and help to keep his musical legacy alive. prince

[Edited 9/29/18 7:59am]

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Reply #138 posted 09/29/18 8:08am

databank

avatar

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Compassion is always important, yes, but this site is really not the place to be working out personal emotional struggles. That idiscussion is better handled with a Therapist. The reality here is that regardless of how big a Prince fan anyone is, unless you knew him as a relative, personal friend, associate, or romantic partner, the relationship is ONLY that of a fan of his music and a consumer of his products. Nothing more. It has become clear that even those who actually had personal relationships with him did not know the extent of his addiction, or other details of his private life.

*

This discussion really brings to light the reason why Prince released that 1994 Love4OneAnother video depicting the girl who declared she was his "soul mate", and traveled from TX to PP in order to be with him forever. Many at that time thought it was a "cheesy" story - with the whole "friend" vs "fan" detailed in the story - and that little Dolphin candle....okay, we won't get into that...so, obviously that video was to promote his music, but it was also his way of talking about obsessive fans, who are strangers to him, but they feel as though they have a personal connection or relationship to him, and that he owes them something more. They cannot separate their own feelings from reality.

Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P but since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else. [Edited 9/29/18 7:24am]

To be clear at least when it comes to my reply and some others, it is not attacking someone than kindly pointing out to them that their statements or behavior are irrational/erratic and a legitimate cause for concern, and to advise them to seek help when obviously they need it.

.

Just imagine how people would react if the OP had said the exact same words out loud at a lunch with friends or family, at work, at a party or any kind of IRL social context...

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #139 posted 09/29/18 1:41pm

PeteSilas

are you kidding? he was a rocker, rockers do not have faith without doubt, virtue without sin. Jerry Lee, Elvis, Little Richard set the rules, a rocker must be trapped between god and the devil forever.

OperatingThetan said:

Krystalkisses said:
I agree...lets stop with being judgemental assumptions please..the OP is obviously hurting... lots of Prince fans do have an unhealthy obsession with Prince but not all, however lots of fans just BELIEVED in him, there was an emotional connection through the art and memories that is hard to explain, lots of his fans have been loyal consumers and have invested alot over decades so it is only natural to have strong feelings when you are disillusioned. I'm curious if the OP feels angry because they felt Prince wasn't being a good Christian when his image was that of someone who was totally committed to this faith. Ten years ago I remember reading some posts like , "It is so sad he isn't an honorable man" and cryptic statements that gave me the feeling that others from his congregation were frustrated with him, I know that is a big assumption but it was just a feeling I had. I heard rumors that the JWs turned the other cheek at the women stuff at least, so..maybe some are just annoyed with the hypocrisy of it.
Did Prince ever claim to be a totally dedicated Jehovah's Witness? Or without challenges in that regard? I always found his references to his faith quite vague, particularly in the last few years leading up to his passing. You are correct about frustrations in his congregation though and I know for a fact that there were issues in 2006 around the release of 3121. I'm not going to name names or give any further details though as these individuals are still in the faith.

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Reply #140 posted 09/29/18 1:57pm

violetcrush

PeteSilas said:

are you kidding? he was a rocker, rockers do not have faith without doubt, virtue without sin. Jerry Lee, Elvis, Little Richard set the rules, a rocker must be trapped between god and the devil forever.

OperatingThetan said:

Krystalkisses said: Did Prince ever claim to be a totally dedicated Jehovah's Witness? Or without challenges in that regard? I always found his references to his faith quite vague, particularly in the last few years leading up to his passing. You are correct about frustrations in his congregation though and I know for a fact that there were issues in 2006 around the release of 3121. I'm not going to name names or give any further details though as these individuals are still in the faith.

He was a dedicated JW (or at least in his mind) for many years. I believe he began learning about the group via Larry Graham in 1996/97, and was baptized by JW in 2001. In many of his award acceptance speeches he would say, "all thanks and praise to Jehovah God". He also proclaimed to be a JW during his interview with Tavis Smiley when he was asked about his stance on politics - JW do not participate in political elections. I believe most of the songs on The Rainbow Children album were tied to the JW beliefs, as well as, his marriage to Manuela T.

*

It seems he may have distanced himself a bit from it in the few years before he died, but another poster on here stated that he attended a service at KH in March 2016. So, not sure about that.

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Reply #141 posted 09/29/18 2:10pm

PeteSilas

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

are you kidding? he was a rocker, rockers do not have faith without doubt, virtue without sin. Jerry Lee, Elvis, Little Richard set the rules, a rocker must be trapped between god and the devil forever.

He was a dedicated JW (or at least in his mind) for many years. I believe he began learning about the group via Larry Graham in 1996/97, and was baptized by JW in 2001. In many of his award acceptance speeches he would say, "all thanks and praise to Jehovah God". He also proclaimed to be a JW during his interview with Tavis Smiley when he was asked about his stance on politics - JW do not participate in political elections. I believe most of the songs on The Rainbow Children album were tied to the JW beliefs, as well as, his marriage to Manuela T.

*

It seems he may have distanced himself a bit from it in the few years before he died, but another poster on here stated that he attended a service at KH in March 2016. So, not sure about that.

ya and he also went on and did whatever the fuck he wanted with makeup and wardrobe, i can't say sex because of course I don't know. The JW's would have ran the average JW out of church just for the clothes and makeup. Even women weren't suppossed to wear makeup in my church, it wasn't jw, but point is, they all are ridiculously strict.

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Reply #142 posted 09/29/18 2:24pm

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

He was a dedicated JW (or at least in his mind) for many years. I believe he began learning about the group via Larry Graham in 1996/97, and was baptized by JW in 2001. In many of his award acceptance speeches he would say, "all thanks and praise to Jehovah God". He also proclaimed to be a JW during his interview with Tavis Smiley when he was asked about his stance on politics - JW do not participate in political elections. I believe most of the songs on The Rainbow Children album were tied to the JW beliefs, as well as, his marriage to Manuela T.

*

It seems he may have distanced himself a bit from it in the few years before he died, but another poster on here stated that he attended a service at KH in March 2016. So, not sure about that.

ya and he also went on and did whatever the fuck he wanted with makeup and wardrobe, i can't say sex because of course I don't know. The JW's would have ran the average JW out of church just for the clothes and makeup. Even women weren't suppossed to wear makeup in my church, it wasn't jw, but point is, they all are ridiculously strict.

True

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #143 posted 09/29/18 2:44pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

are you kidding? he was a rocker, rockers do not have faith without doubt, virtue without sin. Jerry Lee, Elvis, Little Richard set the rules, a rocker must be trapped between god and the devil forever.

He was a dedicated JW (or at least in his mind) for many years. I believe he began learning about the group via Larry Graham in 1996/97, and was baptized by JW in 2001. In many of his award acceptance speeches he would say, "all thanks and praise to Jehovah God". He also proclaimed to be a JW during his interview with Tavis Smiley when he was asked about his stance on politics - JW do not participate in political elections. I believe most of the songs on The Rainbow Children album were tied to the JW beliefs, as well as, his marriage to Manuela T.

*

It seems he may have distanced himself a bit from it in the few years before he died, but another poster on here stated that he attended a service at KH in March 2016. So, not sure about that.



In Larry's interview with the detectives he stated he only saw P twice in the last six months or so. Specifically in March 2016 at KH for Easter and then the Monday before he passed.

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Reply #144 posted 09/29/18 4:30pm

violetcrush

ThatWhiteDude said:

PeteSilas said:

ya and he also went on and did whatever the fuck he wanted with makeup and wardrobe, i can't say sex because of course I don't know. The JW's would have ran the average JW out of church just for the clothes and makeup. Even women weren't suppossed to wear makeup in my church, it wasn't jw, but point is, they all are ridiculously strict.

True

No doubt there were probably certain things that he kept in his routine, however, he certainly toned down the makeup and was dressing much more conservatively - as compared to the 80's and 90's. He also refused to sing his more raunchy songs, and stopped cursing. Considering his behavior, dress, and lyrics prior to converting, I would say he made a fairly big effort to follow their rules. I have no doubt they were also lenient on him given the exposure he gave them - not that they should have been, but let's face it, "witnessing" and "recruitment" is a huge part of the deal. He was no doubt their biggest advertisement.

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Reply #145 posted 09/29/18 5:10pm

purplefam99

violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Ok yes I concur with that...lots of his fans have deeper issues but let's just not assume the OP is one of them...if I think someone is being unfairly attacked I feel a moral obligation to speak up, and I felt like the comments on here were harsh ...amd yes I know the OP lashed out at P nut since many of us didn't know P personally why do some feel the need to rush to his defense and excuse his philandering or whatever....just because he was an amazing artist does not mean he was a great person. Maybe he was but it is just annoying to me how the fans defend everything he did while being vicious towards everyone else.

The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.

*

So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.

Violet to your comment^^^ no one (hopefully) accuses someone of needing therapy for emotional reactions and statements about

Trump. Most of the way the OP was treated was poor and meaness masquarading as bluntness.

it is nice to see compassion trying to take hold a bit.

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Reply #146 posted 09/29/18 5:54pm

violetcrush

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.

*

So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.

Violet to your comment^^^ no one (hopefully) accuses someone of needing therapy for emotional reactions and statements about

Trump. Most of the way the OP was treated was poor and meaness masquarading as bluntness.

it is nice to see compassion trying to take hold a bit.

I hear what you're saying, and I agree that some comments were a bit harsh. However, I think my statements above apply to Trump too. I can't stand him as a person, and especially as our President, however, I do not know him personally (nor would I want to), so his past pig behavior toward women, and his many absurd and immature statements, while they do piss me off, I do not feel emotionally hurt or betrayed by him.

*

That being said, I don't think it's fair to compare Trump to Prince. Trump is the elected President of the USA, and as such, he is supposed to be held to a high moral standard, and conduct himself in a way that is honest and respectful toward all citizens. He is representing my country. Prince was just a musician. He was not obligated to uphold any type of moral standard for anyone, nor did he owe us any type of consistent message with regard to his personal beliefs or lifestyle. He, like many of us, changed his ideals, behavoirs, and beliefs throughout his lifetime, and he was entitled to do that. He did not owe us anything in that regard.

*

My comments were really just meant to say that it seems there may be a deeper personal issue in play if one is feeling hurt or angry about the lifestyle of a musician he or she did not know personally.

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Reply #147 posted 09/29/18 5:55pm

PeteSilas

i'm not dissapointed, but i could understand why someone else would be. I've been let down by so many heroes that the slowly learned lesson was that they are just people inspite of the magic they work. I still don't think we know everything or even close to it. I think Prince knew he was a goner and I don't really think he particularly worried about it, we did because we loved him but I don't think he'd really change it if he had the chance. I'm still intrigued by the illness that all the folks close to him insinuate but never name. I still don't think we know nearly as much as we think we do. we don't have the info.

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Reply #148 posted 09/29/18 6:07pm

violetcrush

PeteSilas said:

i'm not dissapointed, but i could understand why someone else would be. I've been let down by so many heroes that the slowly learned lesson was that they are just people inspite of the magic they work. I still don't think we know everything or even close to it. I think Prince knew he was a goner and I don't really think he particularly worried about it, we did because we loved him but I don't think he'd really change it if he had the chance. I'm still intrigued by the illness that all the folks close to him insinuate but never name. I still don't think we know nearly as much as we think we do. we don't have the info.

I agree with some of what you are saying here, but remember, Prince never asked or expected to be anyone's hero. He just wanted to play his music, and wanted folks to enjoy "the ride". Later on, as he matured and delved deeper into his religious beliefs, he did speak out against violent and raunchy lyrics, and stated that he had grown as a person with regard to his music. While the majority of his music was based in love and sex, he did also use it to express his political and religious views - and that's okay. Most musicians do the same.

*

There may have been an illness other than just the pain med addiction for extreme muscle and joint pain. We may never know for sure. I know many people discount the statements that Tyka has made, but the interview that she did where she stated that she knew 2 years prior to his death sticks with me. It also aligns with the stories of him reaching out to many past associates with whom he had not seen or spoken to in a long time. I know they had their ups and downs, and were not always close, but family is family, and that is where you turn when the end may be near. Just my thoughts...

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Reply #149 posted 09/29/18 6:13pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

Let's get real--you can only "hurt and betray" yourself... You can't invest so much of your self in any kind of person, especially not someone you will likely never meet. And certainly not, in Prince's case. Life is full of disappointments, hopes, and dreams. But, in the end, there's only you...and what you do with that and how you treat yourself is what is important.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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