benni said:

The other thing to keep in mind is that when you have the amount of dysfunction in your family, which is evidenced with the relationships he had with his siblings, when he talks about being estranged from his father, a sister that became an addict and ran away, there are reasons for that, and it isn't just because mom and dad wouldn't let you do something. A lot of kids are told "no" by parents and they don't grow up to be addicted to drugs, like Tyka did, have estranged parents and siblings, etc. Usually, there is something much deeper. What happens in the family, stays in the family. When I ran away, and finally told, my aunt asked me, "Why are doing this to the family?' It was different times back then, even more so in the 60s, early 70s.

always surprises me how many people defend prince's parents and say "well, prince might have been a little motherfucker" maybe he was but that's never the impression I get, he wasn't a wild teen by any stretch of the imagination. In the final analysis, it worked out, Prince developed the drive of ten men and became truly great, so who got the last laugh? also, i think that whatever happened, it was probably a lot deeper than being kicked out as a teen, most people who have those sorts of issues have them from and age of 0-5, not 12. of course trauma can happen at any age but I suspect it was more than what we hear about.

CalhounSq said:

I just miss him & wish he was still here, playing music, getting the help he needed... I’m hurt that his people didn’t surround him until he got that help...

Exactly

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

The point being made here is that we, as fans, who had no personal connection with Prince, really should not feel justified to defend, excuse, or attack any choices he made in his personal life. We can certainly have opinions and discussions about what "we think" he did or didn't do based on Biographies, interviews, statements from those who actually knew him, but to bring our own emotions into it as if we were personally affected by his choices is something completely different. Only the person or people directly involved with Prince during any given situation or event with him should or could have an emotional attachment to that specific moment. Furthermore, that emotion would only be coming from their perspective, and not Prince's. Prince would have his own emotions and feelings attached to that event.

*

So, to recap, it is not realistic or normal to have an emotional attachment toward actions and behaviors of someone that you do or did not know perconally - whether they are a celebrity or not. This was Prince's point when discussing the "friend" vs "fan" (aka fanatic) viewpoint.

And I just have to say, from my own "fan" perspective - I have nothing but gratitude and awe for Prince's musical genius and all of the incredible, beautiful music he left us. I also have empathy and sympathy for any struggles he had within his personal life, and the immense physical pain he suffered for years.

*

This man poured his heart and soul out to us within his music. He may have had quirks, vices, control issues, social issues, and relationship issues, but anything he was lacking as a human he gave back in droves to all of us with his music until the very end of his life. When listening to some of his P&M shows I am still in amazement at how incredibly he performed when he was clearly in pain and very physically weak.

*

Most of us did not know him personally, but he always gave us a glimpse of his life within his music, which was very generous. We need to celebrate him as the increcible artist that he was, and help to keep his musical legacy alive.

[Edited 9/29/18 7:59am]

Do you have the same empathy and sympathy that the OP may have in his/her life?

PeteSilas said:

udo said:

I see it all as just another Prince stupidty.

Be it the 1993 '100 million' CONtract, his web$ite$, his way of managing CONcerts, his later one-off record deals, the choice of later B-sides, his late payment of bills or his presumed drug habit, his non-existing will, etc.

It is all the same.

.

Think about that.

I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,

I agree with a lot of what you post, but on hindsight, I get the slave thing now. so I think that should go into the "some people eyes" category.

Seahorsie said:

PeteSilas said:

I HAVE thought about that, sometimes we see him as omnipotent but then there are signs of slippage, the dude said and did stupid stuff, not just stupid stuff in some people's eyes (like the JW's or adding rap into his music) but stupid stuff in nearly anyone's eyes like putting slave on his face, going on oprah when his kid died, the contract, etc.., etc..,

We all have greatness in us, and we all have areas (and times) of complete stupidity. You want to see how Prince thought of himself? It's all there, unadulterated in the poems of his music.

Now how did the line go..

"I'm not saying I'm better, no better than you..."

Personally, I like him better just the way he was; crazy, inspired, dripping with music in his soul, eccentric, trying to act mysterious but sometimes coming off goofy, sensual, stylish, funkadelic swirled up in rock, proud, independent, and willing to put in the work. I don't need him to be something close to perfection.....I like all the chips in the gem.

nice

violetcrush said:

databank said:

Krystalkisses said: 100 years of research in psychology and psychiatry.

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

purplefam99 said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Is it? I was a Psychology major in college and I wasn't I introduced to this...and I'm not saying some fans don't take it to far...but what I'm asking is who made you guys the priesthood thinking you can say who that pertains to or not...??...you don't even know this person...they said they just came back fro. PP maybe their emotions are still very raw...and btw I find it so funny that some people on here are so quick to diagnose mental illness in others as if their idol was the pillar of mental health..love4oneanother...please actually practice it not just proclaim it please.

i agree i think diagnosing someone after 2 posts is premature, i wonder if psychology 101 says to

medicate after 3 posts??

SkipperLove said:

I have to say I do feel hurt and betrayed by those folks who left his vulnerable a$$ alone in the early hours of April 21, 2016.

I don't feel hurt and betrayed, I feel anger, resentment and want them to acknowledge that they could have done better by him.... and yes, before anyone makes a suggestion, I have talked about this to my therapist.

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

I think Prince trusted no one, including family, once he reached his pinnical of fame with Purple Rain. He felt that friends, family, and associates would want a share of his success, or want something from him, whether deserving of it or not, and it seems they did in many cases. There have been many statements about Prince becoming closed off and distant from everyone once he got to the top.

it seems that really took hold in the latter 1987 period and once he was able to sequester himself in Paisley Park

hummmm, interested points; but if he didn't trust anyone, I think it started wayyyyyy before fame. Granted, maybe it manifested itself at that time, but the roots had to have been there prior. Just my opinion.

sonshine said:

Asenath said:

benni said:

Violet, one thing you have to keep in mind is that abuse was generally "in the household". What happened in the house, stayed in the house. You didn't go to school and tell your friends what dad was doing when you went home. In fact, you presented an air of normalcy to your friends. Like Cat said, you feel like "there is something wrong with me". I used to think I was evil. I had to be to go through everything I went through. My friends never knew about my abuse in my childhood. I never told them, never let on to them. With them, I could be normal, or as normal as I could be with what was going on at home. If you were to ask several of my friends from back then if they thought I had a good home life, during that time, they would have said, "Yeah, her aunt and uncle were a little tough at times, but they were always nice when I was there. And her cousins, always seemed pretty cool, but I hardly hung around them." Only one friend ever witnessed anything and she never told anyone. I mean, my aunt and uncle lived in the same home with me, and they didn't even realize my oldest cousin would beat me up or what he was doing to me. I told once, when I was 10, and then again when I ran away at 14. Years later, my aunt asked me why I didn't tell her that my cousin was dragging me through the house by my hair, or choking me, or beating my face in floor. I told her, "I tried telling when I was 10 and you said you never wanted to hear of it happening again."

So, while his friends may know a part of his history, they may know all of it. Prince was great at separating himself -- I mean he presented an image to people. That's one of those dichotomy's for kids with trauma. We are very resilient, we are very silent, and you will only see what we want you to see.

Yes to all of it, benni. And I'm so grateful for this post of yours. For some reason I've been confronted with that part of my life lately. I had left it all behind and "worked it out" and for years now it was gone and my life had changed completely. But for some reason, just the other week, it all came back. It's this whole metoo thing that you have everywhere now, may it be on book covers in your local book store or videos on youtube that take you there. Before I knew it I was watching a Ted Talks video about abuse and although I was at work it made me very emotional. For some reason I had to look at it all over again. And now it's here too and your post was like looking in a mirror. I'm glad you are here for you explain it so much better than I could. I don't think in English, which makes it harder to translate what I want to say and it may be taken the wrong way again. And this subject in particular is not easy to translate to others, especially when they haven't experienced it. That's why I never go deeper into it. It's a complex matter and "wires" a person differently than "normal" kids and this is nothing that childhood friends or fellow musicians can talk about when they haven't been there themselves.

Like you say, you seperate yourself from others and when you're with them you try to keep up a facade of "I'm just like you". Frankly, I still do this today. I often catch myself in a social setting at work or whatever and feel like I'm acting. It's copying what the others do but you don't feel it. And then there will be days when I don't adapt. When I'm just quiet and don't play the entertainer, and usually people - the same people as in the other situation - will ask whether I'm not feeling well, or they will avoid me, or try to get a rise out of me by joking or making funny faces. Some have said they still haven't figured me out and asked me if I "play mysterious" on purpose. Which hurts and makes me withdraw even more. We cannot blame them for they don't know what it feels like but I sure won't go and tell them about my past. I used to try that when I was in my 20's and it was always in vain. You just get pity or awkward comments or you will never see those people again. Which triggers the feeling again of "Something must be wrong with me". I also know this "I must be evil" feeling. This reasoning that you had to go through it. In my life I have met 2 people who did understand and who stayed. And those 2 have "been there" too.

We are pretty good at playing cover up and even reaching out to those people again and again who did that to us. Especially when it's family. To the outside it must seem insane to always go back, sometimes after years of no contact, and wanting to make peace with the people who did this to us. Just like the good child all over again, trying all our life to win the affection of our families, to please them and make the abuse or neglect stop. And this is what Prince did too. May it be wanting to be the best musician to make his dad proud, or may it be inviting his mother to his shows and giving her the best seats and have his people treat her like a queen. MJ did that too - he bought his parents the most expensive (even if tacky) jewelry, just because that was the only way he had to "win their love". It is so sad. I know this pattern of "buying their love" too. Taking my little allowance to buy flowers for the woman who beat me almost daily, just to get one friendly word from her. Or using my money to do the shopping for the whole family. (Didn't work, it even went unnoticed.)

That is nothing that you talk about with your friends and that is nothing they see, even when you see them daily at school, or whatever. Like you I had one moment where one friend witnessed a situation. She came to pick me up for choir and as I got ready to go my stepmother asked me if I had my watch. That watch had been broken for days. Not my fault, it just had stopped working. But in my conditioning it was my fault, so I hid the watch, hoping she would never ask. Now she did ask and I didn't answer, out of sheer fear. She shouted at me - in front of my friend who was standing in the open door - "If you don't tell me where the watch is I'm gonna hit you in front of your friend." This was the only time where she "forgot herself" with somebody else around. I cried and showed her the watch and she said, "Why didn't you tell me?" and I broke down and said, "Because I was afraid you'd be mad." And I ducked, prepared to feel her hand in my face. But because of my friend she didn't. When my friend and I went on our way she said to me, "My mama would never beat me." And I didn't have the heart to tell her that that woman wasn't my mother. Again - feeling fault and like a failure and you protect the other and keep up the facade. That's why I was also so embarrassed when that other friend later told me she could always hear my father yell at me. I didn't even remember those situations. It was my stepmother who was the monster for me, it was her that did abuse me and that I was scared of. My father didn't know about it all, he was either away for work or drunk and he had grown up in a world where "child abuse doesn't exist". People had other concerns after the war. He could never face it and was rather indifferent. His occasional yelling was nothing compared to my stepmother nightmare. I often felt like he was the child and I'm the adult in the relationship with him. You grow up before your time. While you're not ready. As an adult today I always look back and am amazed again at how resilient children can be. You still find ways to create your little corner of peace somewhere and you escape into something. Something that is just yours. Your own little universe. For Prince it was the music, for me it was dancing.

Long post and I will not go there again but your post was really helpful, benni. Thank you.

[Edited 10/3/18 1:52am]

Krystalkisses said:

Asenath said:

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

And also, it isn't like Prince didn't cross the fan/superstar boundaries in some situations, confusing it all. I mean he did marry one of his fans.

But again I know there are unbalanced people out there in the world and I can see why Prince didn't trust others and needed to protect himself. I can't imagine actually living the life of a cultural icon...i was just saying some of the things I read on here just borders on verbal abuse towards others. People think because they are online they don't have to exercise common social dignity towards others. Why should anyone post anything here anymore if this is how we treat eachother Here?

+1

I'm not sure I understand why people who didn't know him would personally feel "hurt and betrayed" by him but in my world everyone's entitled to feel what they feel. Who are we to judge. Feelings are feeling and cannot be censored or controlled. People try this so much and look how disturbed our world is. In this case Prince might just be the trigger for something else that's dormant in the poster's psyche but again, we do not know this.

sonshine said:

Shortly after he died a woman posted a comment online following a local (Minneapolis) news article. She stated she grew up in the same neighborhood as Prince and knew him when they were children, played together with the other kids in the neighborhood. I wish I had saved it. But she stated that things were not good in Prince's household, it was bad times there for Prince and his sister. She felt sorry for them. Or something to that effect. She did not elaborate unfortunately. But she added that she lost touch and sort of forgot about him after he left the neighborhood. She was surprised, and delighted, when she heard about him years later making a name for himself in the local music scene.

Thanks for sharing, sonshine.

Asenath said:

violetcrush said:

And I just have to say, from my own "fan" perspective - I have nothing but gratitude and awe for Prince's musical genius and all of the incredible, beautiful music he left us. I also have empathy and sympathy for any struggles he had within his personal life, and the immense physical pain he suffered for years.

*

This man poured his heart and soul out to us within his music. He may have had quirks, vices, control issues, social issues, and relationship issues, but anything he was lacking as a human he gave back in droves to all of us with his music until the very end of his life. When listening to some of his P&M shows I am still in amazement at how incredibly he performed when he was clearly in pain and very physically weak.

*

Most of us did not know him personally, but he always gave us a glimpse of his life within his music, which was very generous. We need to celebrate him as the increcible artist that he was, and help to keep his musical legacy alive.

[Edited 9/29/18 7:59am]

Do you have the same empathy and sympathy that the OP may have in his/her life?

Well, I was/am a fan of Prince - I knew him as a musician, watched him, and followed his music. The OP is a namless, faceless complete stranger to me in this world. I know absolutely nothing about this person, other than he/she has made a statement on this site claiming that Prince hurt and betrayed him/her. Of course, I have empathy and sympathy for anyone who is struggling in life. My response to the OP was simply that I felt that those emotional struggles would be better resolved with a professionally trained Therapist, and not thousands of nameless, faceless strangers who are usually here to discuss Prince as fans of his music.

*

My comment about empathy and sympathy for Prince was based on what we now know with regard to his long struggle with physical pain, and the fact that it resulted in a very long dependency on deadly pain medication.

rdhull said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Why hasnt the OP posted after 7 pages?

Hmmmm

'Cause he's laying back in the cut, laughin.

You know rdbull, I do think you may be correct. I think all of us here took the "bait", as it were. Oh well, it's usually an interesting discussion/debate, if nothing else

Prince owed me nothing. I only wish he had had at least person around him he could trust. I don't think he would have made the choice(s) he did if he had.

benni said:

The other thing to keep in mind is that when you have the amount of dysfunction in your family, which is evidenced with the relationships he had with his siblings, when he talks about being estranged from his father, a sister that became an addict and ran away, there are reasons for that, and it isn't just because mom and dad wouldn't let you do something. A lot of kids are told "no" by parents and they don't grow up to be addicted to drugs, like Tyka did, have estranged parents and siblings, etc. Usually, there is something much deeper. What happens in the family, stays in the family. When I ran away, and finally told, my aunt asked me, "Why are doing this to the family?' It was different times back then, even more so in the 60s, early 70s.

I agree with some of your thoughts here, but remember, many kds/teens run away or develop a drug habit for various other reasons such as, influence by a girlfriend/boyfriend, or their peer group. My Sister is a perfect example - we were upper-middle class, mostly functional family - we had some "stuff", but nothing major and our parents were always there, however, my Sister became friends with the "wrong" crowd, and ended up getting into drugs at 17-18 yrs old. She was pregnant at 19, which just didn't happen where we grew up, but for her, it was a blessing, because she quit the drugs and focused on raising her child. So, my point is, it is not just kids from broken homes who go down the wrong path.

*

Again, do I think Prince and Tyka could have been parented better? Absolutely. Do I think they were regularly abused? No, I don't. I have listened to Tyka speak about their family, and I've never heard her talk about serious abuse. In one interview she stated when PR was released she used to laugh about people thinking that the family story in the film was autobiographical. That being said, a broken home at a young age, harsh punishments, and lack of parental guidance can certainly leave emotional scars.

Asenath said:

violetcrush said:

Parasocial Interaction: Forming an emotional bond of sorts with an actor or other celebrity, fueled by absorbing media pertaining to them through the web, television or a tattered copy of our favorite novel, reaffirms our end of the relationship without their being any actual reciprocity from the object of our affections.

This is pretty much psychology 101. You can Google it. The term was, I believe, created in the 1950's and the advent of Television in the home, when the general public began developing emotional bonds due to being able to frequently watch their favorite celebrities on the screen. Studies of celebrity stalking behavior include this term as well when it becomes obsessive.

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

I am surprised most celebrities don't live in fortresses with what you can read on social media. I was skimming through Maroon 5 (yes, going to see them next week) sites and all I could think was these people commenting need medical help, and fast. Do I think the artists care about the fans? As the other half of the business relationship - yes. They have a product to sell. We have to remember that we purchase what the talent is selling - it is not a personal relationship. The music moves us both, but it is a business transaction. The artists are not interested in the fans personally. That is just my opinion, but the talent isn't and doesn't want to be involved in our lives.

Asenath said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

it seems that really took hold in the latter 1987 period and once he was able to sequester himself in Paisley Park

hummmm, interested points; but if he didn't trust anyone, I think it started wayyyyyy before fame. Granted, maybe it manifested itself at that time, but the roots had to have been there prior. Just my opinion.

The seeds of it took place before he had a contract with WB. It came from this parents.

But the cloistered mindset, really took after during the 1987 Paisley Park sequester. Prior to 87 the majority of people he had in his life were before the PR fame, and many before he was known yet. Some where still there like Dr Fink Susan Rogers Alan Leeds Sheila E but what he described in 1998 as his community was overall gone and the scene was changed drastically.

His more intense 'new power' religiosity that came in late 87 into the Lovesexy - Griffiti Bridge period, increased it.

Krystalkisses said:

Asenath said:

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

And also, it isn't like Prince didn't cross the fan/superstar boundaries in some situations, confusing it all. I mean he did marry one of his fans. But again I know there are unbalanced people out there in the world and I can see why Prince didn't trust others and needed to protect himself. I can't imagine actually living the life of a cultural icon...i was just saying some of the things I read on here just borders on verbal abuse towards others. People think because they are online they don't have to exercise common social dignity towards others. Why should anyone post anything here anymore if this is how we treat eachother Here?

How does Prince stating, "good night, I love you" to 20,000+ fans at a concert venue translate into him speaking directly - one one one - to a specific person in the audience?? This is exactly what Im talking about. He IS NOT personally expressing love to one person, and he is expressing his gratitude for those who were supporting his music, and coming out to see him play. Again, this is where the "parasocial" aspect comes into play - when a fan or fans begin to think he is communicating directly to them and having a personal moment with them specifically. He was not. He was expressing a general feeling of gratitude and love toward all of his fans at the show.

*

I agree that some of the responses were a bit harsh on this thread, but the original post was also a pretty extreme statement. Other posters are free to express their feelings about it as well. My suggesting that the OP's feelings would be better suited for a discussion with a Therapist was not meant to offend. I think it was a fair response based on the nature of the post.

Krystalkisses said:

Asenath said:

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

And also, it isn't like Prince didn't cross the fan/superstar boundaries in some situations, confusing it all. I mean he did marry one of his fans. But again I know there are unbalanced people out there in the world and I can see why Prince didn't trust others and needed to protect himself. I can't imagine actually living the life of a cultural icon...i was just saying some of the things I read on here just borders on verbal abuse towards others. People think because they are online they don't have to exercise common social dignity towards others. Why should anyone post anything here anymore if this is how we treat eachother Here?

Asenath and Krystal - Prince didn't just pluck Manuela from an audience show and decide to marry her. She worked at PP for several years. He got to know her as a person, and they were physically around each other on a regular basis. You can really say the same for all of his serious relationships. Susannah stated that she was a fan before Wendy and Lisa joined the band. Mayte's Mother was a huge fan, which is why she jumped through hoops to get Mayte back stage to meet him. Kim Basinger was a big fan before they had a relationship. By 1984, unless a woman was living under a rock 24/7, or off the grid, she would at least know of Prince, and would most likely be a fan if she's meeting him through connections or at his shows. This is how it was for any woman he was with once he became famous.

[Edited 10/3/18 5:49am]

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women

have you ever cheated on someone?

i want details

1Sasha said:

Prince owed me nothing. I only wish he had had at least person around him he could trust. I don't think he would have made the choice(s) he did if he had.

I agree, but I think the saddest aspect is that through the years he did have people that he could trust, but he kept "the wall" up around him, so they moved on. Very difficult to have a "one-sided" relationship, or one that does not allow for vulnerability or a deeper connection. He did not trust people, therefore, he did not fully let them in. When he felt they were getting too close or if he didn't like what they said or did he would cut them off completely. Hard to hold on to a trusted circle with that mindset.

1Sasha said:

Asenath said:

so when they say "good night, I love you".... they don't really mean it? When they claim to "care" about their fans, they don't mean it; that's not reciprocity in some aspect? (the first part about "good night, I love you", was a joke; second part, serious question)

I am surprised most celebrities don't live in fortresses with what you can read on social media. I was skimming through Maroon 5 (yes, going to see them next week) sites and all I could think was these people commenting need medical help, and fast. Do I think the artists care about the fans? As the other half of the business relationship - yes. They have a product to sell. We have to remember that we purchase what the talent is selling - it is not a personal relationship. The music moves us both, but it is a business transaction. The artists are not interested in the fans personally. That is just my opinion, but the talent isn't and doesn't want to be involved in our lives.

Right on 1Sasha. I would think, especially in this day and age, musicians/celebrities are quite fearful about their exposure, and most are very guarded, or try to be very guarded with their personal lives. Their music is their business/career. Their fans are supposed to be there to support their career.

*

As Prince stated to Larry King when asked about fans wanting to know or be a part of his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, that's me giving you something. If you seek something then that says something about what you may be lacking in your life". Prince addressed this situation numerous times throughout his career - most notably with his "friend" vs. "fan" discussion. Fan is short for fanatic:

*

CatB said:

benni said:

Violet, one thing you have to keep in mind is that abuse was generally "in the household". What happened in the house, stayed in the house. You didn't go to school and tell your friends what dad was doing when you went home. In fact, you presented an air of normalcy to your friends. Like Cat said, you feel like "there is something wrong with me". I used to think I was evil. I had to be to go through everything I went through. My friends never knew about my abuse in my childhood. I never told them, never let on to them. With them, I could be normal, or as normal as I could be with what was going on at home. If you were to ask several of my friends from back then if they thought I had a good home life, during that time, they would have said, "Yeah, her aunt and uncle were a little tough at times, but they were always nice when I was there. And her cousins, always seemed pretty cool, but I hardly hung around them." Only one friend ever witnessed anything and she never told anyone. I mean, my aunt and uncle lived in the same home with me, and they didn't even realize my oldest cousin would beat me up or what he was doing to me. I told once, when I was 10, and then again when I ran away at 14. Years later, my aunt asked me why I didn't tell her that my cousin was dragging me through the house by my hair, or choking me, or beating my face in floor. I told her, "I tried telling when I was 10 and you said you never wanted to hear of it happening again."

So, while his friends may know a part of his history, they may know all of it. Prince was great at separating himself -- I mean he presented an image to people. That's one of those dichotomy's for kids with trauma. We are very resilient, we are very silent, and you will only see what we want you to see.

Yes to all of it, benni. And I'm so grateful for this post of yours. For some reason I've been confronted with that part of my life lately. I had left it all behind and "worked it out" and for years now it was gone and my life had changed completely. But for some reason, just the other week, it all came back. It's this whole metoo thing that you have everywhere now, may it be on book covers in your local book store or videos on youtube that take you there. Before I knew it I was watching a Ted Talks video about abuse and although I was at work it made me very emotional. For some reason I had to look at it all over again. And now it's here too and your post was like looking in a mirror. I'm glad you are here for you explain it so much better than I could. I don't think in English, which makes it harder to translate what I want to say and it may be taken the wrong way again. And this subject in particular is not easy to translate to others, especially when they haven't experienced it. That's why I never go deeper into it. It's a complex matter and "wires" a person differently than "normal" kids and this is nothing that childhood friends or fellow musicians can talk about when they haven't been there themselves.

Like you say, you seperate yourself from others and when you're with them you try to keep up a facade of "I'm just like you". Frankly, I still do this today. I often catch myself in a social setting at work or whatever and feel like I'm acting. It's copying what the others do but you don't feel it. And then there will be days when I don't adapt. When I'm just quiet and don't play the entertainer, and usually people - the same people as in the other situation - will ask whether I'm not feeling well, or they will avoid me, or try to get a rise out of me by joking or making funny faces. Some have said they still haven't figured me out and asked me if I "play mysterious" on purpose. Which hurts and makes me withdraw even more. We cannot blame them for they don't know what it feels like but I sure won't go and tell them about my past. I used to try that when I was in my 20's and it was always in vain. You just get pity or awkward comments or you will never see those people again. Which triggers the feeling again of "Something must be wrong with me". I also know this "I must be evil" feeling. This reasoning that you had to go through it. In my life I have met 2 people who did understand and who stayed. And those 2 have "been there" too.

We are pretty good at playing cover up and even reaching out to those people again and again who did that to us. Especially when it's family. To the outside it must seem insane to always go back, sometimes after years of no contact, and wanting to make peace with the people who did this to us. Just like the good child all over again, trying all our life to win the affection of our families, to please them and make the abuse or neglect stop. And this is what Prince did too. May it be wanting to be the best musician to make his dad proud, or may it be inviting his mother to his shows and giving her the best seats and have his people treat her like a queen. MJ did that too - he bought his parents the most expensive (even if tacky) jewelry, just because that was the only way he had to "win their love". It is so sad. I know this pattern of "buying their love" too. Taking my little allowance to buy flowers for the woman who beat me almost daily, just to get one friendly word from her. Or using my money to do the shopping for the whole family. (Didn't work, it even went unnoticed.)

That is nothing that you talk about with your friends and that is nothing they see, even when you see them daily at school, or whatever. Like you I had one moment where one friend witnessed a situation. She came to pick me up for choir and as I got ready to go my stepmother asked me if I had my watch. That watch had been broken for days. Not my fault, it just had stopped working. But in my conditioning it was my fault, so I hid the watch, hoping she would never ask. Now she did ask and I didn't answer, out of sheer fear. She shouted at me - in front of my friend who was standing in the open door - "If you don't tell me where the watch is I'm gonna hit you in front of your friend." This was the only time where she "forgot herself" with somebody else around. I cried and showed her the watch and she said, "Why didn't you tell me?" and I broke down and said, "Because I was afraid you'd be mad." And I ducked, prepared to feel her hand in my face. But because of my friend she didn't. When my friend and I went on our way she said to me, "My mama would never beat me." And I didn't have the heart to tell her that that woman wasn't my mother. Again - feeling fault and like a failure and you protect the other and keep up the facade. That's why I was also so embarrassed when that other friend later told me she could always hear my father yell at me. I didn't even remember those situations. It was my stepmother who was the monster for me, it was her that did abuse me and that I was scared of. My father didn't know about it all, he was either away for work or drunk and he had grown up in a world where "child abuse doesn't exist". People had other concerns after the war. He could never face it and was rather indifferent. His occasional yelling was nothing compared to my stepmother nightmare. I often felt like he was the child and I'm the adult in the relationship with him. You grow up before your time. While you're not ready. As an adult today I always look back and am amazed again at how resilient children can be. You still find ways to create your little corner of peace somewhere and you escape into something. Something that is just yours. Your own little universe. For Prince it was the music, for me it was dancing.

Long post and I will not go there again but your post was really helpful, benni. Thank you.

[Edited 10/3/18 1:52am]

Cat, if you ever need to talk, you can always send me a private message. I understand everything you said, only too well. A lot of survivors have been triggered recently because of the Kavanaugh hearings here in the US. (Not sure where you are.) You mentioned about creating your own little corner of peace...I used to fantasize about a different world, the world I believed that God intended, where everyone loved everyone, including me. So silly, but ... I still can't go to sleep at night without imagining how I want things to be in the world. When I found Love4OneAnother website back in 1998, Prince had posted something about, "What does your perfect world look like? Describe your perfect world if you could create it." And I stayed, because I felt like he *got* it. ((((((((((((((Cat)))))))))))))))) I'm sorry for everything you went through. No child should ever go through that.

sonshine said:

Shortly after he died a woman posted a comment online following a local (Minneapolis) news article. She stated she grew up in the same neighborhood as Prince and knew him when they were children, played together with the other kids in the neighborhood. I wish I had saved it. But she stated that things were not good in Prince's household, it was bad times there for Prince and his sister. She felt sorry for them. Or something to that effect. She did not elaborate unfortunately. But she added that she lost touch and sort of forgot about him after he left the neighborhood. She was surprised, and delighted, when she heard about him years later making a name for himself in the local music scene.

I really hope things weren't bad for Prince. He was such a gentle soul in many ways. He could probably be a pain when he wanted to be, but the impression I always had with him was that a lot of him acting like a pain at times was a cover for something more vulnerable inside. But there are too many things that I recognize in him.

violetcrush said:

benni said:

The other thing to keep in mind is that when you have the amount of dysfunction in your family, which is evidenced with the relationships he had with his siblings, when he talks about being estranged from his father, a sister that became an addict and ran away, there are reasons for that, and it isn't just because mom and dad wouldn't let you do something. A lot of kids are told "no" by parents and they don't grow up to be addicted to drugs, like Tyka did, have estranged parents and siblings, etc. Usually, there is something much deeper. What happens in the family, stays in the family. When I ran away, and finally told, my aunt asked me, "Why are doing this to the family?' It was different times back then, even more so in the 60s, early 70s.

I agree with some of your thoughts here, but remember, many kds/teens run away or develop a drug habit for various other reasons such as, influence by a girlfriend/boyfriend, or their peer group. My Sister is a perfect example - we were upper-middle class, mostly functional family - we had some "stuff", but nothing major and our parents were always there, however, my Sister became friends with the "wrong" crowd, and ended up getting into drugs at 17-18 yrs old. She was pregnant at 19, which just didn't happen where we grew up, but for her, it was a blessing, because she quit the drugs and focused on raising her child. So, my point is, it is not just kids from broken homes who go down the wrong path.

*

Again, do I think Prince and Tyka could have been parented better? Absolutely. Do I think they were regularly abused? No, I don't. I have listened to Tyka speak about their family, and I've never heard her talk about serious abuse. In one interview she stated when PR was released she used to laugh about people thinking that the family story in the film was autobiographical. That being said, a broken home at a young age, harsh punishments, and lack of parental guidance can certainly leave emotional scars.

Yes, and usually it is just that one person in the family who acts dysfunctional because they "got in with the wrong crowd". In this case, Prince was estranged from his parents. Tyka ran away, got involved in drugs. And usually, when someone says to an individual, "Your father was an abusive man, right?" if their father was not an abusive man they are going to jump in quickly and deny it. "WHAT!? No! My father was the best dad, the best man I knew." Instead Prince got kind of quiet, and he said, "He had his moments." If you had a good father, and someone said to you, "Your dad was an abusive man, right? That's what I heard." How would you react? You wouldn't want that person walking away with the impression that he was an abusive man if he wasn't, not even a little.

For me, I would start shutting down emotionally, become quiet, and would probably try to minimize it by saying something like, "He had his moments."

In that same interview with Oprah, he talked about a different person inside himself. I'm not saying that Prince had multiple personalities, and I don't think Prince was either. But he stated that he developed this other person, he thinks, when he was 5.

And as for Tyka, keep in mind, she still has to keep up the appearance. She has a product to sell now, her brother's music, his fame, his artistry. And again, she grew up in a time of "what happens in the family, stays in the family."

Honestly, we don't know what Prince's homelife was like. You can say that you believe the parents were just a little too strict, and you may be right. I just know that I've seen too many things in Prince (and Tyka) that I recognize in myself that was a result of what I went through, their mannerisms, their being so soft spoken (can't bring attention to yourself when you speak in an abusive household), the needing to control things, the deep dysfunction in the family well into adulthood. And there are more... and I may be right. But at the end of the day, the only one who can say for certain what he experienced is Prince.

violetcrush said:

1Sasha said:

I am surprised most celebrities don't live in fortresses with what you can read on social media. I was skimming through Maroon 5 (yes, going to see them next week) sites and all I could think was these people commenting need medical help, and fast. Do I think the artists care about the fans? As the other half of the business relationship - yes. They have a product to sell. We have to remember that we purchase what the talent is selling - it is not a personal relationship. The music moves us both, but it is a business transaction. The artists are not interested in the fans personally. That is just my opinion, but the talent isn't and doesn't want to be involved in our lives.

Right on 1Sasha. I would think, especially in this day and age, musicians/celebrities are quite fearful about their exposure, and most are very guarded, or try to be very guarded with their personal lives. Their music is their business/career. Their fans are supposed to be there to support their career.

*

As Prince stated to Larry King when asked about fans wanting to know or be a part of his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, that's me giving you something. If you seek something then that says something about what you may be lacking in your life". Prince addressed this situation numerous times throughout his career - most notably with his "friend" vs. "fan" discussion. Fan is short for fanatic:

*

fa·nat·ic

fəˈnadik/

noun

1. 1.

   a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.

   synonyms:

   zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent; sectarian, bigot, partisan,radical, diehard; informalmaniac

Perfect comments, VioletCrush. Perfect.