RODSERLING said:

databank said:

Except this is absolute bullshit made-up by you and Bart, without any evidence or source. I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to attract attention in London", whether it's in 2013 or 2014 or maybe was it 1998 since you're being so specific?, but to stop this BS being repeated so often that it'll become fact I'll say it 4 the people reading us: there is no evidence whatsoever to support any of this, there is no evidence that any label ever refused to release a Prince album at that time, on top of it all Prince actually did have a label to distribute Plectrumelectrum (Kobalt), and most likely is the one who dropped Kobalt to go back to WB and not the other way around.

.

So now unless you have solid, sourced new evidence to back-up your claims I'm gonna say it and say it only once:

STOP

SPREADING

LIES.

Thank you.

Kobalt is à very little label, nothing of the sort of Sony, Universal, etc. Hé announced the release of the album for february 2014 and there was nothing coming. . Plus, he struggled for 4 years to find a Real label to distribute his music. That wasn t obviously his choice, because hé had lots of music to release. . This is absolutely not rumoured.

STOP

MAKING UP

SHIT

.

And stop insulting us by doing this. It's quite insane that you're being caught in the act lying, and when told to submit proof or cut the crap, you're just going in a loop repeating the same lies without adding any further argument or proof. This is so fucking disrespectful! [self-snip] you for thinking we're dumb like that. [s.e.l.f-s.n.i.p.] y.o.u.

.

No, Prince did not struggle for 4 years to distribute his music. No such thing is documented. There is no evidence, not a single document, not a single account by any witness dead or alive saying that Prince even tried to have any label distribute any music other than the few who did, let alone that any label declined to distribute any music. It's all in your friggin' head! Or you know what, maybe it isn't: maybe one of those days someone, an exec from a label or a Prince bandmember will say "yeah you know what, Prince shopped his music everywhere and no one wanted it". I don't believe it for a minute but I have no proof it didn't happen: absence of evidence isn't evidence, so who knows, maybe you are right. And the minute you'll come up with solid evidence as opposed to twisted logic and fallacies, I'll be the first one to admit you have evidence. But until such a thing happens what you're doing is turning theories into facts, which is plain LYING, and insulting us by thinking we're stupid enough to swallow your BS. You can talk about sales and charts all you want: here we have figures and solid elements. Everything else is BS.

.

And FYI Kobalt, while not one of the THREE majors (because, yeah, there are only three of them), is the subsidiary of one of the world's biggest publishing companies, and a relatively important indie label in itself, that has released records by many small acts but also Lenny Kravitz, Boy George, Massive Attack, Billy Idol, Nick Cave or Placebo among others. Which anyway doesn't matter because a label is a label. Sony also released a single in 2014, BTW, but I'm sure you'll find some way to explain to us that Sony isn't really a major.

.

You know I don't care what you choose to believe in your fantasy world, it's cool. The only problem is that there are many casual fans and kids who come here and are trustworthy, and they'll believe you because you look like you know the subject, and they'll repeat your BS, and instead of researching Prince, this community becomes a vehicule for spreading myths and urban legends, which is the opposite of what it should be.

.

So just back off. Stop insulting our intelligence.

.

[Edited 9/29/18 5:18am]

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

As long as he doesn't make up stories as he just did ROD can say what he wants, but I'm fed up of people making up shit, because other Orgers read it and trust them and repeat it and before you know it it becomes "common knwoledge" that Prince couldn't find a label for Plectrumelectrum or that he orchestrated the whole Black Album situation on purpose and so on...

.

As for Rod's motivations, he most likely has a hidden agenda/personal vendetta against Prince, as did/do many others here over the years. Is it because Prince really did something to them (I know of at least one fan whose GF slept with Prince after a show, so it might have happened to others)? Is it because they are so emotionally disturbed that they took it as a personal offense everytime Prince did something or released music they disliked? Is it some kind of a "kill the father figure" syndrome? IDK. But people don't spend hours on a board slandering their supposedly favorite artist without an agenda.

You are crazy fans that really need à girl or something to keep on attacking me everytime because I post numbers and facts accurate. Instead, I never told à lie about Prince, charts and sales. Every thing is documentéd and published, what makes your claim beyond ridiculous.

I have never, nor will I ever attack you for posting number and facts about charts, sales or any other documented thing.

I'm attacking you when you speculate and claim your speculation is factual and documented, when it isn't.

And it's not about whether you're talking favorably or unfavorably about Prince: if you were claiming that every label was courting Prince and begging him to sign with them, I'd tell you to cut the crap just as well, because no such thing is documented either. I certainly had my fair share of arguments with Laura (RIP) when she was making positive shit about her superhero-perfect-living-god-Prince.

And for that matter I'm not attacking you. I don't know you and have nothing against you as a person. I'm attacking your statements when they're wrong. And I don't like people taking me for an imbecile.

And I do have a girl and 2 cats, but really that's kind of irrelevant

Why is it that ROD hijacks every single thread of mine I make when I report the sales of his albums, why??

feeluupp said:

Why is it that ROD hijacks every single thread of mine I make when I report the sales of his albums, why??

Obviously you two got a little entangled in a little feud. I think you should meet and talk it over a beer or coffee

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Didn’t Prince set a record for charting TWO albums simultaneously with his WBR albums AOA & Plectrumelectrum at the same time on different charts? That had never been done before?

Which charts are you talking about? Plectrumelectrum didn't chart R&B, and AOA didn't chart rock. As for the BB200, several acts have had two top ten albums at the same time. Some have also debuted two albums in the top ten in the same week (Guns'N'Roses, Bruce Springsteen, Nelly). So I'm not sure what record you're talking about, but maybe it's possible.

Prince does hold the record for the most top ten albums in single week; the week after he passed he occupied 5 of the top 10 spots on Billboard (and 19 of the top 200, also a record).

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

As long as he doesn't make up stories as he just did ROD can say what he wants, but I'm fed up of people making up shit, because other Orgers read it and trust them and repeat it and before you know it it becomes "common knwoledge" that Prince couldn't find a label for Plectrumelectrum or that he orchestrated the whole Black Album situation on purpose and so on...

.

As for Rod's motivations, he most likely has a hidden agenda/personal vendetta against Prince, as did/do many others here over the years. Is it because Prince really did something to them (I know of at least one fan whose GF slept with Prince after a show, so it might have happened to others)? Is it because they are so emotionally disturbed that they took it as a personal offense everytime Prince did something or released music they disliked? Is it some kind of a "kill the father figure" syndrome? IDK. But people don't spend hours on a board slandering their supposedly favorite artist without an agenda.

I Haven t à personnal agenda against Prince at all. You are crazy fans that really need à girl or something to keep on attacking me everytime because I post numbers and facts accurate. . Prince is my favorite musical artist. I absolutely love his carreer and is still deeply saddened since hé died. . What you re saying just prove how much you should just Take à walk outside and stop spreading BS, exacly what you are accusing me of. Instead, I never told à lie about Prince, charts and sales. Every thing is documentéd and published, what makes your claim beyond ridiculous. [Edited 9/29/18 4:18am]

databank said:

renfield said:

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

Now you say you have nothing against me and that you don t know me, After stating that I have an hidden agenda.
.
Why not.
.
Let s rather say you have your point of view concerning this 4 years hiatus, and I have mine, and in the end Prince never called us to say if it was true or not.
.
If I played your game what are the proof that Prince never courtised major label during his 4 years hiatus? None.
.
Sony/Epic only released ONE digital single, and it was because it was a duet with à Well known actress. This went to nowhere, mainly because Prince was unable to do promotion.
.
Ànd that s why hé struggled for 4 years : hé screwed up every Big labels hé worked with, and Couldn t be under control to promote à single, with à dedicated tv performance, à dedicated music vidéo, etc. Impossible to sell.
.
In the end, only WB could be interested, because they are the only ones who owns à large catalogue of albums from him. So each time hé releases an album, PR sells, TVBO sells, etc.
.
Same thing was valable for Michael Jackson : there wasn t à queue of labels to sign him or wanting to work with After hé quits Sony.
.
Thèse guys were à nightmare for labels. And this point is also Well documented!
.

The only important point in everything I said is not to claim one thing is known and documented when it's not, and to be totally clear about one's personal theories and speculation being just that when addressing them. Now that we agree on this I trust you not to do it again and we're cool.

databank said:

RODSERLING said:

Now you say you have nothing against me and that you don t know me, After stating that I have an hidden agenda.
.
Why not.
.
Let s rather say you have your point of view concerning this 4 years hiatus, and I have mine, and in the end Prince never called us to say if it was true or not.
.
If I played your game what are the proof that Prince never courtised major label during his 4 years hiatus? None.
.
Sony/Epic only released ONE digital single, and it was because it was a duet with à Well known actress. This went to nowhere, mainly because Prince was unable to do promotion.
.
Ànd that s why hé struggled for 4 years : hé screwed up every Big labels hé worked with, and Couldn t be under control to promote à single, with à dedicated tv performance, à dedicated music vidéo, etc. Impossible to sell.
.
In the end, only WB could be interested, because they are the only ones who owns à large catalogue of albums from him. So each time hé releases an album, PR sells, TVBO sells, etc.
.
Same thing was valable for Michael Jackson : there wasn t à queue of labels to sign him or wanting to work with After hé quits Sony.
.
Thèse guys were à nightmare for labels. And this point is also Well documented!
.

The only important point in everything I said is not to claim one thing is known and documented when it's not, and to be totally clear about one's personal theories and speculation being just that when addressing them. Now that we agree on this I trust you not to do it again and we're cool.

RODSERLING said:

Piano débuts at 8 with 34.993 "copies" including 33.002 digital/physical copies. The rest is streaming. . The physical numbers are about 5000 less than what deluxe sold its first week. . But in one year, the physical market shrinked by 20℅ ! And the decrease Will be more and more each year, making complètely irrelevant the decision of WB and the estate to wait years and years to release something new. Piano...is not Well distributed, so I expect à biggest drop next week than for PR deluxe.

Those are the HDD numbers, any news on the BILLBOARD numbers and the WORLD chart numbers yet?

I think there will be a big drop next week, to be honest this might be marketable to the hardcore fans but the general public, this release I don't think will or is going to sell well at all.

this should mean that they release MORE product to make sure they make money

RODSERLING said:

In 2012/2014 Prince had great difficulty to find a label to distribute his masterpiece 3rd Eyed Girl album. Nobody wanted to release it, and Prince tried even in early 2013 or 2014 to attract attention in London, to no avail. . Hé only succeeded in releasing AOA and PLEC with returning with WB in exchange of contractual things Prince gave them or not. . Since Prince gave up complètely promotion for thèse two albums, and that Billboard tricked the chart in 2015 to add streaming in sales, it was nearly impossible for Prince to chart, alive, with à new studio album, in the charts. . And HNR phase 2, when it was released initially in décember 2015, didn t chart in the top 200 at all, proving I was right. . It peaked at #40 only After his death. . And phase 1 peaked at #48 only After his death. . We passed from top 10 album to not sure being in the top 100 in the last two years of his life.That was my point, that was a punchline, no matter if it charted at #86 or #153, the Idea was that Prince Lost his battle to stay relevant in the charts. Hé couldn t trick Billboard anymore. It wasn t really hard to predict. . So there are no great interest for his new material album. . Prince alive, there would have been no 4EVER, no PR deluxe, no Piano and Microphone 1983. . There would have been maybe HNR3 charting at #150. Sad, but true. [Edited 9/28/18 23:01pm]

You are wrong in many things.

1) Prince's final new album to chart before his death was HITNRUN: Phase One, which debuted and peaked at No. 70 on the Oct. 3, 2015-dated list.

2) Prince arrives with the first of his two debuts in the top 10: Art Official Age, which bows at No. 5 with 51,000. He also enters at No. 8 with Plectrumelectrum (with the band 3rdEyeGirl; 26,000). Prince is the first act to achieve two simultaneous top 10 debuts in a little more than 10 years. The last act to do so was Nelly, on the chart dated Oct. 2, 2004, when his Suit and Sweat albums started at Nos. 1 and 2, respectively.

He had Two Top 10 albums in 2014 selling 77,000 copies in one week. And also debuted in Top 70 with Hit N Run without promo, singles, video.

This proves with a bit of promo he could pull decent numbers like Art Official Age.

TKO said:

feeluupp said:

TKO said:

RODSERLING said:

databank said:

The only important point in everything I said is not to claim one thing is known and documented when it's not, and to be totally clear about one's personal theories and speculation being just that when addressing them. Now that we agree on this I trust you not to do it again and we're cool.

As I say, this is my point of view, and I ll stick to this until be proven wrong. . Of course, if everybody had the same interprétation s of things, there would be no point in à board ! . Surely, many of us should add " from my point of view, it s obvious that..." And what is obvious to the writer Can be misunderstood by the reader, or worst, as an agression. . That thing Can t be said of charts and sales through

When it comes to opinions or points of view I think it's extremely important toi be specific about what is sourced and what is opinion.

.

Saying "Lovesexy is a masterpiece" or "Come is a bad album" is obviously and for the most part a matter of opinion, so while I think it's always more reasonable to state it as such, there is little to no risk of confusing the reader.

.

Now when it comes to events, it's different.

.

"Prince wrote Starfish & Coffee based on a childhood story by Susannah Melvoin" or "Prince made a deal with Morris Day to trade Partyup against givin Morris a WB deal" (for example) are events that have been corroborated by sources that are considered reliable, and while it's never entirely impossible that further information or witnesses contradict those facts at some point in the future, those informations can be sourced if challenged, and consensus among researchers is that they can be considered reliable until challenged by a new source. Therefore, they can be stated as factual.

.

On the other hand, "Prince schemed the whole TBA situation from the start" is an opinion that goes against every available source. It is very unlikely and needs to be clearly stated as being an opinion, and an unlikely one at that. As for the claims you made regarding Plectrumelectrum and Fallinlove2nite, they are purely circumstantial, they are not corroborated by any witness or factual information, and while they do not contradict any existing document, source or witness, they aren't based on any document, source or witness either. Therefore they need to be stated as pure speculation. And let it be clear that the fact that they seem extremely believable to you doesn't make them any more factual than they are. This is the difference between sanity and insanity: being able not to project one's own fantasies over reality.

.

Why is that important? Because people are reading. Many people are reading what we write here, and not all of those poeple have the time, or the intuition, to crosscheck each and every thing they read on here. They will assume that the writer is informed, that they have reason to make their claim, and they will take it for granted that something stated as a fact is a fact. It's happened many times in my life that I'd read or hear someone saying something that I knew was false or unverified, and when I'd tell them "this is wrong/unverified", they'd tell me "oh, I don't know, I've heard it and read it here or there and assumed it was true because I had no reason to doubt the statement in the first place". And it has actually happened quite often here on the org, regarding Prince's history.

.

When saying what you say about Plec and Fallinlove2nite and presenting your mere speculations as facts, you are luring people into believing your informations are sourced and verified. Those people will repeat it as such. By doing that you are doing nothing less than trying to force your unverified, unsourced speculations/opinions over history, by turning them into "common knowledge". This is dishonest and dangerous, and defending/justifying such a practice is plain wrong because, of course, people don't only do this with Prince or music history but also with general history, politics, news, etc. If you do it by negligence, because you don't realize the harm you're doing, you need to learn from your mistakes. If you do it on purpose then you do have an agenda, which is to twist how people perceive real events and turn myths into facts, and you are a public nuisance that must be silenced at all cost. You said you don't have an agenda, I believe you, so it means you didn't realize what you were doing and that you must learn to be careful about how you state things in the future.

.

We are going through a very sensitive moment in human history, where the internet is an amplifyer for numerous fake news, conspiracy theories and other misinformation. There are many people with various political agendas who are trying to defend concepts such as "alternate facts" or relativism (i.e. belief = fact, ignorance = knowledge, lie = truth, "all opinions are equally valid" and such nonsense), with the aim of creating an intellectual environment in which people believe nothing can be verified or assessed as true or false, such an environment being perfect for those who wish to spread lies or manipulate others. Anyone is entitled to their own opinions or speculations, but everyone has to be careful not to try and lure people into believing those are sourced facts.

.

This is more important than just Prince and the Org.

.

Peace

RODSERLING said:

lwr001 said:

wrong. Sony epic released it as LA Reid, princes friend and label head bet him that if he have him the song he could have it on the radio. prince said how soon, la stated before u get to your car. nothing to do with Zoe RODSERLING said:

Now you say you have nothing against me and that you don t know me, After stating that I have an hidden agenda. . Why not. . Let s rather say you have your point of view concerning this 4 years hiatus, and I have mine, and in the end Prince never called us to say if it was true or not. . If I played your game what are the proof that Prince never courtised major label during his 4 years hiatus? None. . Sony/Epic only released ONE digital single, and it was because it was a duet with à Well known actress. This went to nowhere, mainly because Prince was unable to do promotion. . Ànd that s why hé struggled for 4 years : hé screwed up every Big labels hé worked with, and Couldn t be under control to promote à single, with à dedicated tv performance, à dedicated music vidéo, etc. Impossible to sell. . In the end, only WB could be interested, because they are the only ones who owns à large catalogue of albums from him. So each time hé releases an album, PR sells, TVBO sells, etc. . Same thing was valable for Michael Jackson : there wasn t à queue of labels to sign him or wanting to work with After hé quits Sony. . Thèse guys were à nightmare for labels. And this point is also Well documented! .

I remember this. The reason I didn't mention it is because my understanding is that it's not entirely clear whether LA Reid already knew that Zooey was on the song or not when they made the deal. I didn't research the original articles to make sure, so IDK. But while this information does not corroborate Rod's theory, I assumed it could not really be used to contradict it either.

lwr001 said:

RODSERLING said:

lwr001 said:

wrong. Sony epic released it as LA Reid, princes friend and label head bet him that if he have him the song he could have it on the radio. prince said how soon, la stated before u get to your car. nothing to do with Zoe

If it has nothing to do with Zoe Deschanel, why this is the duet that was released instead of the solo version released on HNR1? . Why don t release the single with à random girl instead ? . Why LA Reid never thought à Prince song could be à hit before hé recorded with à famous tv star? . Coïncidences, I guess... . [Edited 9/30/18 3:54am]

.

If it has nothing to do with Zooey Deschanel, why this is the duet that was released instead of the solo version released on HNR1? Why don t release the single with à random girl instead ?

Because, at least according to Princevault who usually only published sourced information, the song was specifically recorded for the show TV New Girl, starring Zooey. The real question is more "why was the version on HnR without Zooey Deschanel?".

.

This tends to suggest LA Reid probably knew from the beginning that she was on the song, which plays in favor of your theory.

.

Why LA Reid never thought à Prince song could be à hit before hé recorded with à famous tv star?

IDK, I'm not in his head. Maybe he's on Twitter or FB, maybe someone can ask him?

.

Your theory is in the realm of possibilities. It is made even stronger if one considers that Zooey Deschanel's musical band She & Him signed to Columbia, a Sony sublabel, at about the same time (it was announced a few months after Fallinlove was released). In that case, however, it could just as well be argued that LA Reid's motive was to boost Zooey's visibility and credibility as a singer by releasing a duet between her and a major musical artist, in order to boost She & Him's next album. So maybe Reid wanted to take advantage of Zooey to sell a Prince song, or maybe he wanted to take advantage of Prince to boost Zooey's music career, or maybe he just liked the song and though it had strong potential (it did, it's very radio-friendly), or maybe it was just a friendly bet between 2 old pals. All those theories work, none is verified except that, if LA Reid said it was just a bet, we'll have to take his word for it won't we? Who are we to accuse him of having a hidden agenda if we can't accuse each other?

.

Prince missed the top ten on Billboard. Probably number 11 or 12.

renfield said:

Prince missed the top ten on Billboard. Probably number 11 or 12.

Not surprised, this was not a commercial viable release at all.

feeluupp said:

renfield said:

Prince missed the top ten on Billboard. Probably number 11 or 12.

Not surprised, this was not a commercial viable release at all.

No, and top 20 (even top 40) is better than I would have expected when they announced it, but Hits Daily Double gave me some hope.