CatB said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, right....okay. I'm sure I can see Prince sitting around and talking about the specifics of the lyrics to LRC. Are you serious here????

*

The story of Lisa's car, and him writing LRC came from LISA herself. I'm going to guess that she remembers what type of car she drove, as well as, what the specifics were for that song. She discusses it during her interview with Questlove on his podcast show "Questlove Supreme". I highly recommend it if you haven't listened to it. Also, Susannah talks about "Betty Flounder" during her interview with Questlove on that same podcast show.

*

The song is not about Vanity.

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.

And here we go with your generalizations AGAIN regarding just about everything. It's not about winning any kind of argument. It's about opinions, thoughts, and also referencing reliable and more reputable sources in relation to those opinions and thoughts.

*

I'm not arguing that you watched a video of her stating she and Prince were "leaders". However, I happened to listen to an interview where she stated that Prince controlled everything, and if she didn't wear the clothes and do what he wanted her to do, she would not get paid. She was not bashing Prince, just stating the facts. She said it was her choice to go down that road - I believe she stated at that time she had "door #1, door #2 or door #3, and she chose door #...." However, she made it clear that she was not the one making those decisions.

*

Okay, right. You were asked to speak on a Podcast....which one?? Unless you are actually Cat Glover or Cat Dyson, I remain skeptical of your connection to Prince. Even in your few private Org notes to me - you detailed your personal life, but did not give any type of evidence as to your time with Prince. Until then, you are an anonymous fan like the rest of us.

AnnaStesia10 said:

I surely can see Vanity as a leader. We all have our moments when we can be the leader when it calls for it and a team player at other times. Life isnt absolutes. She did what she had to do to be famous and she did love and respect Prince. I am sure she gave Prince the business alot of times hence the fights. She was fiery and intelligent imo. She chose to leave and stop playing the game. Back to Prince songs and if ELUBEDTUA and others, and what woman are they about. I can totally believe that when Prince wrote love songs it could also be about more than 1 woman at any given time. Or he wrote a love song about one particular woman in that moment in time but years later morphed that song in his head to pertain about another woman who hurt him. I believe Prince couldve been in love with more than 1 woman at any particular time. Although I do feel certain woman left a strong, intense impression on him that lasted his whole life. [Edited 9/15/18 10:19am]

Agreed, and well said. I think Prince was extremely good at controlling relationships for a period of time. Most of the women left when they had had enough. Yes, I agree - certain ones, the more serious ones, left lasting impressions on him. Others were there for his pleasure or fun.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.

And here we go with your generalizations AGAIN regarding just about everything. It's not about winning any kind of argument. It's about opinions, thoughts, and also referencing reliable and more reputable sources in relation to those opinions and thoughts.

*

I'm not arguing that you watched a video of her stating she and Prince were "leaders". However, I happened to listen to an interview where she stated that Prince controlled everything, and if she didn't wear the clothes and do what he wanted her to do, she would not get paid. She was not bashing Prince, just stating the facts. She said it was her choice to go down that road - I believe she stated at that time she had "door #1, door #2 or door #3, and she chose door #...." However, she made it clear that she was not the one making those decisions.

*

Okay, right. You were asked to speak on a Podcast....which one?? Unless you are actually Cat Glover or Cat Dyson, I remain skeptical of your connection to Prince. Even in your few private Org notes to me - you detailed your personal life, but did not give any type of evidence as to your time with Prince. Until then, you are an anonymous fan like the rest of us.

Again, keep spewing. And twisting things. I don't know what you think you can gain here but you start to look ridiculous. Just like the way you are trying to make it look like you agree with AnnaStesia10's post now. She's open and said she can see Vanity as a leader. That is what I said before and you had to disagree again.

As I told you in orgnotes, I am not here to convince you (or anyone) simply because it isn't possible to convince people. Those close to me know my story. Parts of which I have shared here as well.

You seem to know everything better, about anyone or anything, also how 16 year olds are here in Europe. You keep applying your own filters. I tried to make you see that in a polite way and that was the reason I orgnoted you as you even came for things I said on the threads in which we agreed on things and yet had to pick on me.

It is pointless to talk to you as you are dogmatic as peggyon said. You are not one to have a fruitful discussion with. That's also why I said I will end the private conversation with you.

I will also refrain from further replying to your posts on the threads.

One thing is very clear to me.

Vanity, though she struggled financially, as Susannah seems to, would NEVER have profited from selling his personal items at auction. Vanity did not try to profit from him.

Susannah has lost my repect as i feel she is tying to make' hay' now. So is Mayte. Vanity would not be doing those things right now. Prince valued that. I do too.

peggyon said:

One thing is very clear to me.

Vanity, though she struggled financially, as Susannah seems to, would NEVER have profited from selling his personal items at auction. Vanity did not try to profit from him.

Susannah has lost my repect as i feel she is tying to make' hay' now. So is Mayte. Vanity would not be doing those things right now. Prince valued that. I do too.

Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the the others.

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

And here we go with your generalizations AGAIN regarding just about everything. It's not about winning any kind of argument. It's about opinions, thoughts, and also referencing reliable and more reputable sources in relation to those opinions and thoughts.

*

I'm not arguing that you watched a video of her stating she and Prince were "leaders". However, I happened to listen to an interview where she stated that Prince controlled everything, and if she didn't wear the clothes and do what he wanted her to do, she would not get paid. She was not bashing Prince, just stating the facts. She said it was her choice to go down that road - I believe she stated at that time she had "door #1, door #2 or door #3, and she chose door #...." However, she made it clear that she was not the one making those decisions.

*

Okay, right. You were asked to speak on a Podcast....which one?? Unless you are actually Cat Glover or Cat Dyson, I remain skeptical of your connection to Prince. Even in your few private Org notes to me - you detailed your personal life, but did not give any type of evidence as to your time with Prince. Until then, you are an anonymous fan like the rest of us.

Again, keep spewing. And twisting things. I don't know what you think you can gain here but you start to look ridiculous. Just like the way you are trying to make it look like you agree with AnnaStesia10's post now. She's open and said she can see Vanity as a leader. That is what I said before and you had to disagree again.

As I told you in orgnotes, I am not here to convince you (or anyone) simply because it isn't possible to convince people. Those close to me know my story. Parts of which I have shared here as well.

You seem to know everything better, about anyone or anything, also how 16 year olds are here in Europe. You keep applying your own filters. I tried to make you see that in a polite way and that was the reason I orgnoted you as you even came for things I said on the threads in which we agreed on things and yet had to pick on me.

It is pointless to talk to you as you are dogmatic as peggyon said. You are not one to have a fruitful discussion with. That's also why I said I will end the private conversation with you.

I will also refrain from further replying to your posts on the threads.

I am "spewing" nothing here. You look ridiculous when you "chime" in with your general statements about Prince with the "twist" that you know the facts, because you knew him personally. On every thread that you've participated in - regardless of the time frame or relationship being discussed, you make statements implying that you know exactly what, why, where, when and/or how it all happened. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it, because your information is no different than what most of us have hear/read, and some of it is not correct. The only "story" I have seen you post is at age 17 seeing him walk into an event with Mayte after an awards show, or something of that nature. All still very vague and insuative.

*

Oh, and I actually found the YT video of Vanity stating that she and Prince were "leaders" when she was trying to explain why she left the camp. It was an interview she did for her 1988 Playboy pictorial. It is clear, based on the things that she said, that she very much loved Prince. She is very sweet during the interview, but she also appears to be under the influence of something. She does not look the interviewer in the eyes when answering many of the questions related to her performing. It's quite sad to watch, and she seems a bit lost and sad.

*

Here is the interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVkFLNqTU1I

An absolutely stunning Prince ballad - great lyrics and sentiment.

Prince never had cheated on Mayte! Mayte was the one who cheated on Prince. The baby was not his! Just think about it. After her babies death. Prince started writing and singing songs based on that cheating ass Ho Mayte! Thism is the whole reason why the annulment came about. Prince could not turn a whore into a housewife!

42Kristen said:

WTF has Little Red Corvette got to do with Eye Love U But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore

[Edited 9/15/18 18:36pm]

LaurenceNoonan said:

violetcrush said:

LaurenceNoonan said:

WTF has Little Red Corvet got to do with Eye Love U But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore

Nothing, but it was brought up by a poster with regard to the discussion of the subjects of his songs. Then it took off on a diversion of its own about the woman Mi-Ling, who came out with her story of dating Prince back in the late 70's and being the inspiration for the song.

I saw her on the Prince Podcast, she seemed nice (I guess) but isn't Little Red Corvette about (Ex Girlfriend No. 10000)

[Edited 9/15/18 18:40pm]

.

[Edited 9/15/18 18:36pm]

LaurenceNoonan said:

violetcrush said:

LaurenceNoonan said:

I saw her on the Prince Podcast, she seemed nice (I guess) but isn't Little Red Corvette about (Ex Girlfriend No. 10000)

[Edited 9/15/18 18:40pm]

Potentially But, she did seem have pretty detailed information, and Jerome and Terry recognized her on a video they posted after the podcast aired. Seems very feasible to me, but of course, only Prince knows for sure

Does it matter tho? like Little Red Corvette could have beenn written about a toy car and it's still a kick ass song but I can see why people care about who it's written about, gives it more meaning.

[Edited 9/15/18 19:22pm]

LaurenceNoonan said:

@VioletCrush -When I first saw this thread I was like, man, VioletCrush is gonna be all up in this thread trying to make everyone believe that ILUBDTY was about Susannah Melvoin, and somehow I just knew you'd eventually run amock about Vanity, talking crazy, trying to pit her against Susannah making sure she comes off as some kind of pariah, like you always try to do. Here are a few things you've said that need to be cleared up.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long-term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through."

*

Reply: Vanity was a very ingenious and clever person. She had plenty of attributes apart from her beauty that excited and invigorated Prince. That's why she was one of his most tremendous muses. Her dynamism moved and inspired Prince on many levels. She was an artist and a physically creative person -she was the inspiration and artist behind the 1999 album cover that Prince was so inspired by that he tried to re-create the artwork again as per Steve Parks. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." There were many layers to her artistry. She was also kind and nurturing. As Jill Jones stated that she tried to make all the girls as beautiful as she was, by teaching them how to apply make-up and dress. She was astute and witty along with that provocative allure. That combination is deadly. It's what took hold and grabbed the masses in 1982. There is no doubt that Prince was challenged and stimulated by Denise apart from her beauty. There is an interview from one of her movies where one of the commentaries stated that 'you didn't just only see her and fall in love…, Vanity MADE you love her…' In Rolling Stone Magazine 2014, Prince did an interview where he spoke of The Time and Vanity… He said this; “It’s not just my vision. It’s one thing to say, ‘You know what would be cool?’ and visualize it … but then you’ve got to actually find the people. [The Time’s] Morris Day is as good as any funk drummer who ever did it. And Vanity? Nobody could talk like her.”

*

Violet Crush Said: "Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group."

*

Reply: What a bunch of made up BS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from that Brenda was more of a manager and speaker of the group? You're basing these assumptions from one interview where you saw Brenda take the lead in a conversation? Are you kidding me? Brenda helped her with her vocals sometimes. That was it... Vanity was the leader of the group, taking leadership and spoke eloquently in many interviews. What's your point about this exactly? Didn’t you say somewhere else that Susannah said she felt OWNED by Prince? That makes the point you're trying to make completely moot.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born-again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him."

*

Reply: Get your facts straight, Denise was a Christian way before she ended up in

the hospital on her deathbed.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that."

*

Since when is it said that Susannah was seeing other people on Prince? Lol. I think you are just saying that to make it look like Susannah didn't take his crap and played hardball with Prince the way Vanity did… (Good one... )

*

VioletCrush said: Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the others.

*

Reply: VioletCrush, you should at the very least make an attempt at a proper research before detailing false info on a book you obviously know absolutely nothing about. You do realize that Blame it On Vanity was about Denise's journey to Christ that barely had but five to six pages in which Denise wrote in parables about things she'd already talked about and everyone already knew about her relationship with Prince from interviews… Lol…

There were no, "in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince,"Barely anything on the group Vanity 6, Nothing at all on her "marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith…" Not even close that she was trying to profit off her relationship with Prince. The only profit she was after was bringing her fans to God. Denise said she was offered a million dollars to write a tell-all book about her life and turned it down. If she really wanted to profit she would have written a book for the ages. Everyone has always been interested in the story of Prince and Vanity. She could have scored if she really wanted to.

[Edited 9/15/18 21:39pm]

luvgirl said:

@VioletCrush -When I first saw this thread I was like, man, VioletCrush is gonna be all up in this thread trying to make everyone believe that ILUBDTY was about Susannah Melvoin, and somehow I just knew you'd eventually run amock about Vanity, talking crazy, trying to pit her against Susannah making sure she comes off as some kind of pariah, like you always try to do. Here are a few things you've said that need to be cleared up.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long-term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through."

*

Reply: Vanity was a very ingenious and clever person. She had plenty of attributes apart from her beauty that excited and invigorated Prince. That's why she was one of his most tremendous muses. Her dynamism moved and inspired Prince on many levels. She was an artist and a physically creative person -she was the inspiration and artist behind the 1999 album cover that Prince was so inspired by that he tried to re-create the artwork again as per Steve Parks. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." There were many layers to her artistry. She was also kind and nurturing. As Jill Jones stated that she tried to make all the girls as beautiful as she was, by teaching them how to apply make-up and dress. She was astute and witty along with that provocative allure. That combination is deadly. It's what took hold and grabbed the masses in 1982. There is no doubt that Prince was challenged and stimulated by Denise apart from her beauty. There is an interview from one of her movies where one of the commentaries stated that 'you didn't just only see her and fall in love…, Vanity MADE you love her…' In Rolling Stone Magazine 2014, Prince did an interview where he spoke of The Time and Vanity… He said this; “It’s not just my vision. It’s one thing to say, ‘You know what would be cool?’ and visualize it … but then you’ve got to actually find the people. [The Time’s] Morris Day is as good as any funk drummer who ever did it. And Vanity? Nobody could talk like her.”

*

Violet Crush Said: "Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group."

*

Reply: What a bunch of made up BS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from that Brenda was more of a manager and speaker of the group? You're basing these assumptions from one interview where you saw Brenda take the lead in a conversation? Are you kidding me? Brenda helped her with her vocals sometimes. That was it... Vanity was the leader of the group, taking leadership and spoke eloquently in many interviews. What's your point about this exactly? Didn’t you say somewhere else that Susannah said she felt OWNED by Prince? That makes the point you're trying to make completely moot.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born-again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him."

*

Reply: Get your facts straight, Denise was a Christian way before she ended up in

the hospital on her deathbed.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that."

*

Since when is it said that Susannah was seeing other people on Prince? Lol. I think you are just saying that to make it look like Susannah didn't take his crap and played hardball with Prince the way Vanity did… (Good one... )

*

VioletCrush said: Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the others.

*

Reply: VioletCrush, you should at the very least make an attempt at a proper research before detailing false info on a book you obviously know absolutely nothing about. You do realize that Blame it On Vanity was about Denise's journey to Christ that barely had but five to six pages in which Denise wrote in parables about things she'd already talked about and everyone already knew about her relationship with Prince from interviews… Lol…

There were no, "in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince,"Barely anything on the group Vanity 6, Nothing at all on her "marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith…" Not even close that she was trying to profit off her relationship with Prince. The only profit she was after was bringing her fans to God. Denise said she was offered a million dollars to write a tell-all book about her life and turned it down. If she really wanted to profit she would have written a book for the ages. Everyone has always been interested in the story of Prince and Vanity. She could have scored if she really wanted to.

[Edited 9/15/18 21:39pm]

At Luvgirl: here are my resposes to you:

VioletCrush Said: "Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long-term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through."

*

Luvgirl said: Vanity was a very ingenious and clever person. She had plenty of attributes apart from her beauty that excited and invigorated Prince. That's why she was one of his most tremendous muses. Her dynamism moved and inspired Prince on many levels. She was an artist and a physically creative person -she was the inspiration and artist behind the 1999 album cover that Prince was so inspired by that he tried to re-create the artwork again as per Steve Parks. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." There were many layers to her artistry. She was also kind and nurturing. As Jill Jones stated that she tried to make all the girls as beautiful as she was, by teaching them how to apply make-up and dress. She was astute and witty along with that provocative allure. That combination is deadly. It's what took hold and grabbed the masses in 1982. There is no doubt that Prince was challenged and stimulated by Denise apart from her beauty. There is an interview from one of her movies where one of the commentaries stated that 'you didn't just only see her and fall in love…, Vanity MADE you love her…' In Rolling Stone Magazine 2014, Prince did an interview where he spoke of The Time and Vanity… He said this; “It’s not just my vision. It’s one thing to say, ‘You know what would be cool?’ and visualize it … but then you’ve got to actually find the people. [The Time’s] Morris Day is as good as any funk drummer who ever did it. And Vanity? Nobody could talk like her.”

*

Reply: Wow, you are really romaticizing Prince's feelings here. How does "I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" and "nobody could talk like her" translate into Vanity being the love of his life?? I would say you are ebellishing here quite a bit, and projecting your own ideas onto the words. I think the "muse" for Prince with his women was depicted in how he portrayed them as performers, and with Vanity, it was sex. Her look, the songs, and the way she performed was all about sex. He also wanted to name her "Va-geena" As far as album artwork, that is great that she inspired or helped to design the 1999 album cover. Prince was obviously drawn to the artistic side as Susannah had done her design for The Dream Factory as well, and in the song Crystal Ball he also sings about her drawing on the walls when they lived together. She clearly was his muse during that period. Also, you're quoting a movie commentary, of which the purpose is to sell the movie?? Those were not Prince's words. Again, embellishing to make your point. Look, I have said numerous times that I think Vanity was a very beautiful woman, and Prince was clearly smitten with her when they met, and it was good for awhile. But like all of his more serious relationships there were monogamy issues and control issues too. I also think they met at a very young age when neither had matured enough, and Vanity unfortunately got into drugs in a hardcore way.

*

Violet Crush Said: "Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group."

*

Luvgirl said: What a bunch of made up BS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from that Brenda was more of a manager and speaker of the group? You're basing these assumptions from one interview where you saw Brenda take the lead in a conversation? Are you kidding me? Brenda helped her with her vocals sometimes. That was it... Vanity was the leader of the group, taking leadership and spoke eloquently in many interviews. What's your point about this exactly? Didn’t you say somewhere else that Susannah said she felt OWNED by Prince? That makes the point you're trying to make completely moot.

*

Reply: No, not "made up BS" at all. I did read that Brenda was the one slated to keep the group in control. Remember, Brenda and Susan were there well before Vanity entered the scene. Jamie Schoop had been slotted to be the third girl, as I'm sure you know, and Prince had come up with the name "The Hookers" for them. Prince changed course when he met Vanity at the awards show in early '82. I believe Vanity stated she was living in NY at that time, and Prince convinced her to move to MN. She arrived and found that Prince and Susan were together, and was furious. It has also been said that Brenda and Vanity clashed quite a bit, which I'm sure had to do with her being close with Susan. This has all been written in Biographies and stated in interviews. Just because Vanity was the focal point of the group from a performance perspective doesn't mean she handled everything behind the scenes. Prince also had Susan, Vanity and Jill in rotation on an intimate level for awhile until Susan stepped out of the mix. This has also been documented.

VioletCrush Said: "Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born-again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him."

*

Luvgirl said: Get your facts straight, Denise was a Christian way before she ended up in

the hospital on her deathbed.

*

Reply: In the interview that I heard - again, one of the many of Vanity that are out there, she stated that she had "found Jesus", but wasn't fully ready to be "saved", and she had had a relapse with drugs. However, not long after the relapse she "became fully commited to Jesus Christ". The fact that she ended up in the hospital before or after she went toward religion is irrelevant, because the drug addiction was the cause of her body shutting down, and sadly, also the reason for her death at a young age.

VioletCrush Said: "Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that."

*

Luvgirl said: Since when is it said that Susannah was seeing other people on Prince? Lol. I think you are just saying that to make it look like Susannah didn't take his crap and played hardball with Prince the way Vanity did… (Good one... )

*

Reply: Oh, I have no doubt Susannah "played hardball" with Prince, however, it was most likely in in a more subtle but effective way. Listen to the songs from the now well-known Empty Room sessions - it's all in the lyrics. As Prince always said, "if you want to know about my life listen to my songs". Per Susannah's words, they were off and on for years. I have no doubt that she would see other guys during the time that Prince was having fun with whatever chick caught his eye at the time. She's a smart girl, and I have no doubt she knew how to push his buttons.

*

VioletCrush said: Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the others.

*

Luvgirl said: VioletCrush, you should at the very least make an attempt at a proper research before detailing false info on a book you obviously know absolutely nothing about. You do realize that Blame it On Vanity was about Denise's journey to Christ that barely had but five to six pages in which Denise wrote in parables about things she'd already talked about and everyone already knew about her relationship with Prince from interviews… Lol…

There were no, "in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince,"Barely anything on the group Vanity 6, Nothing at all on her "marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith…" Not even close that she was trying to profit off her relationship with Prince. The only profit she was after was bringing her fans to God. Denise said she was offered a million dollars to write a tell-all book about her life and turned it down. If she really wanted to profit she would have written a book for the ages. Everyone has always been interested in the story of Prince and Vanity. She could have scored if she really wanted to.

*

Reply: THIS WAS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM A WEB SITE THAT WAS PROMOTING HER BOOK AT THE TIME IT WAS PUBLISHED, WHICH IS WHY I HAD IT IN QUOTES:

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1759559.Blame_It_On_Vanity

*

Luvgirl: you should understand that Vanity's publisher, and no doubt Vanity herself, knew full well that the most enticing thing about her book would be any information she included about Prince. No way it was known to the public what information she had in the book about Prince. This is marketing 101. And I do believe that prior to her death the book was re-issued and selling for quite a large amount of money.

Regarding my comments about the original subject of this thread (the ILUBIDTU song), my statements were 1) In a televised interview to promote her book in Europe, Mayte was asked specifically about this song. She replied that no, she did not say those words to Prince, nor did he say them to her. She said the song was not about their relationship. 2) During his last P&M show Prince sang the song and after the lyric, "I remember meeting you here back in the good old days", he then said, "the 80's". Now as far as I know, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, the only person he gave an engagement ring to in the 80's was Susannah. If you have confirmation of someone else please let me know. So my point was, whether or not the song was originall written about someone else, he was clearly referencing that time period.

*

Look, most fans know by now the women with whom Prince was more serious - Kim Upsher, Susan, Vanity, Susannah, Kim B (? not sure), Mayte and Manuela. Most have their thoughts on one who may have "had his heart" to a stronger degree. For that, I'm "team Susannah", mainly because of the songs and the information written in the Biiogrpahies. And based on your thorough "smack down" of my various posts here I have no doubt you would be "team Vanity", and that's just great, because we are all entitled to our views and opinions on these things

[Edited 9/15/18 23:29pm]

[Edited 9/15/18 23:31pm]

[Edited 9/15/18 23:33pm]

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, right....okay. I'm sure I can see Prince sitting around and talking about the specifics of the lyrics to LRC. Are you serious here????

*

The story of Lisa's car, and him writing LRC came from LISA herself. I'm going to guess that she remembers what type of car she drove, as well as, what the specifics were for that song. She discusses it during her interview with Questlove on his podcast show "Questlove Supreme". I highly recommend it if you haven't listened to it. Also, Susannah talks about "Betty Flounder" during her interview with Questlove on that same podcast show.

*

The song is not about Vanity.

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.

why would they ask you to be on a podcast, were you in the camp? As far as all these women, i've often quoted what has been said about Duke Ellington "all of them made the fatal mistake of thinking they were the ONE, there was no such animal. The ONE was music" True for any of us dedicated musicians, I saw a Ray Parker seminar on youtube, he said he told his wife early on to "never try to compete with this" and he patted his guitar. That doesn't go down to well with women but that's the way it is for those of us who chose music as our lives.

AnnaStesia10 said:

I surely can see Vanity as a leader. We all have our moments when we can be the leader when it calls for it and a team player at other times. Life isnt absolutes. She did what she had to do to be famous and she did love and respect Prince. I am sure she gave Prince the business alot of times hence the fights. She was fiery and intelligent imo. She chose to leave and stop playing the game. Back to Prince songs and if ELUBEDTUA and others, and what woman are they about. I can totally believe that when Prince wrote love songs it could also be about more than 1 woman at any given time. Or he wrote a love song about one particular woman in that moment in time but years later morphed that song in his head to pertain about another woman who hurt him. I believe Prince couldve been in love with more than 1 woman at any particular time. Although I do feel certain woman left a strong, intense impression on him that lasted his whole life. [Edited 9/15/18 10:19am]

nothing i have ever seen from her made me think "Strong person, leadership potential" in fact, just the opposite, her interviews she was ditzy, even the later ones where I couldn't even recognize her, when she became a christian. It was actually sad to see when I saw her interviews 11 years ago, how much life, time, drugs had robbed her of her beauty, I honestly couldn't recognize her.

I had no daddy issues. My dad was not abusive in any way..a little domineering over my mother but not abusive. That all being said, I did have crushes on older men as a teenager-- movie stars, rock stars and even a male high school teacher. I found many boys my own age to be annoying, immature and boring--with some exceptions. In high school, I never acted on my older crushes and probably would have felt creeped out if a teacher hit on me due to the fact that the teacher was someone I was literally forced to listen to and follow rules.. But I don't think you have to have daddy issues to find older men attractive. Prince was a rock star who was small, baby-faced, a bit effeminate in his looks and looked younger than his years--kind of non-threatening appearance wise. . I do think younger women found him attractive just like many rock stars attract young women. So I don't agree. In college, I had this professor who was British, highly intelligent and extremely good looking. He was probably about 35 years old. I was about 19 or 20. If he had hit on me, I think I would have been game. He didn't.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

She was older than 16 at the time but same difference - she was young. However, she was not like others her age. She already had a career, seens places and knew about business. She was trained by her mama, also how to play demure.

I always say there is some psychology at work when it comes to Prince, that you do not see him as an uncle or father. Maybe some did. He could be very "daddy", yes. But his height and his own "girly" side made the difference to thoughts you would usually apply to "young girl - much older man". His height let you be on eye level with him and that's why you didn't feel this barrier.

What's more, mostly you didn't think about his age, simply because he didn't. To me he had always been "my brother". He seemed much younger and had other interests than the average guy. He had been an abandoned child and still carried that with him and he created his own universe and "magic" and had something that felt like HOME.

A friend and I were always joking, Imagine P coming home from a job in a bank or whatever, flopping himself on the couch, unzip his pants and crack open a can of beer. Just didn't happen. It was easier to imagine him as a fairy or something.

So you just couldn't look at him like at the average guy.

I also doubt that their feelings for each other really changed. He had that fairytale created to the outside world, yes. He just had to believe in this for various reasons. But as someone else said before - you don't have somebody on your payroll for years and then suddenly realize they are your soulmate or "the One".

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same. I was quite experienced with boys/relationships through my teens, and was working a Summer job at a nightclub as a cocktail waitress at 19 in between college semesters. I had a 28 yr old guy who made every effort possible to get me to go on a date with him, and I had absolutely no interest. I looked at him as a much older man, and that was only a 9-10 yr age difference. The severity of the age gap does close somewhat in later years, but certainly not with 16 to 32.

*

Also, "stage Moms" are notoriously protective of their daughters. The intensity is directed at the success of the performances - not with their daughters getting hooked up with older men. That is something altogether different, which is why her Mother is often referred to as "Pimp Momma". I have an 11 yr old daughter - I don't care how talented a performer I think she is - I would NEVER put her in that position. I think you'll find many Mothers feel the same, unless fame and money are their priority.

*

Regarding Prince as "always wanting to be that "fairytale" persona with his women - not at all how Susannah described him. She stated there were many nights with him where it was just popcorn and television on the couch. Susan Rogers has also told the story of going over to his house on Thanksgiving to visit him and Susannah, and finding him asleep on the couch. So, no - it seems he could very well be a "regular" guy with those he was initimate with and loved.

I thought her book was going for 500 or something. didn't she say something about her and prince seeing demons or something? I never read or even saw the book and you mention 1999, do you mean the album time period or actual 1999, I never heard they had much communication after the breakup until they were both dead and people here mentioned they thought Prince tried to win her back. I never believed it, I have to say, those things are of minor interest to me as a fan, his lovelife, but those things are always part of the story of any great man's.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

One thing is very clear to me.

Vanity, though she struggled financially, as Susannah seems to, would NEVER have profited from selling his personal items at auction. Vanity did not try to profit from him.

Susannah has lost my repect as i feel she is tying to make' hay' now. So is Mayte. Vanity would not be doing those things right now. Prince valued that. I do too.

Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the the others.

Prince was probably different things to different women. Remember how compartmentalized he was. I imagine he used what worked. Its funny--I just re-watched his interview on the View in 2012 and Whoopie Goldberg (who is only three years older than Prince) slipped up and referred to him as a young man and a kid before she corrected herself. Kind of funny.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

She was older than 16 at the time but same difference - she was young. However, she was not like others her age. She already had a career, seens places and knew about business. She was trained by her mama, also how to play demure.

I always say there is some psychology at work when it comes to Prince, that you do not see him as an uncle or father. Maybe some did. He could be very "daddy", yes. But his height and his own "girly" side made the difference to thoughts you would usually apply to "young girl - much older man". His height let you be on eye level with him and that's why you didn't feel this barrier.

What's more, mostly you didn't think about his age, simply because he didn't. To me he had always been "my brother". He seemed much younger and had other interests than the average guy. He had been an abandoned child and still carried that with him and he created his own universe and "magic" and had something that felt like HOME.

A friend and I were always joking, Imagine P coming home from a job in a bank or whatever, flopping himself on the couch, unzip his pants and crack open a can of beer. Just didn't happen. It was easier to imagine him as a fairy or something.

So you just couldn't look at him like at the average guy.

I also doubt that their feelings for each other really changed. He had that fairytale created to the outside world, yes. He just had to believe in this for various reasons. But as someone else said before - you don't have somebody on your payroll for years and then suddenly realize they are your soulmate or "the One".

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same. I was quite experienced with boys/relationships through my teens, and was working a Summer job at a nightclub as a cocktail waitress at 19 in between college semesters. I had a 28 yr old guy who made every effort possible to get me to go on a date with him, and I had absolutely no interest. I looked at him as a much older man, and that was only a 9-10 yr age difference. The severity of the age gap does close somewhat in later years, but certainly not with 16 to 32.

*

Also, "stage Moms" are notoriously protective of their daughters. The intensity is directed at the success of the performances - not with their daughters getting hooked up with older men. That is something altogether different, which is why her Mother is often referred to as "Pimp Momma". I have an 11 yr old daughter - I don't care how talented a performer I think she is - I would NEVER put her in that position. I think you'll find many Mothers feel the same, unless fame and money are their priority.

*

Regarding Prince as "always wanting to be that "fairytale" persona with his women - not at all how Susannah described him. She stated there were many nights with him where it was just popcorn and television on the couch. Susan Rogers has also told the story of going over to his house on Thanksgiving to visit him and Susannah, and finding him asleep on the couch. So, no - it seems he could very well be a "regular" guy with those he was initimate with and loved.

LaurenceNoonan said:

WTF has Little Red Corvette got to do with Eye Love U But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore

[Edited 9/15/18 18:36pm]

we're trying to figure out who he wrote songs for, which woman, it's not so easy, he had so many. I'm glad when I wrote my love songs, i put the name in it, it got the cops called on me but let there be no room for conjecture.

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

@VioletCrush -When I first saw this thread I was like, man, VioletCrush is gonna be all up in this thread trying to make everyone believe that ILUBDTY was about Susannah Melvoin, and somehow I just knew you'd eventually run amock about Vanity, talking crazy, trying to pit her against Susannah making sure she comes off as some kind of pariah, like you always try to do. Here are a few things you've said that need to be cleared up.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long-term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through."

*

Reply: Vanity was a very ingenious and clever person. She had plenty of attributes apart from her beauty that excited and invigorated Prince. That's why she was one of his most tremendous muses. Her dynamism moved and inspired Prince on many levels. She was an artist and a physically creative person -she was the inspiration and artist behind the 1999 album cover that Prince was so inspired by that he tried to re-create the artwork again as per Steve Parks. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." There were many layers to her artistry. She was also kind and nurturing. As Jill Jones stated that she tried to make all the girls as beautiful as she was, by teaching them how to apply make-up and dress. She was astute and witty along with that provocative allure. That combination is deadly. It's what took hold and grabbed the masses in 1982. There is no doubt that Prince was challenged and stimulated by Denise apart from her beauty. There is an interview from one of her movies where one of the commentaries stated that 'you didn't just only see her and fall in love…, Vanity MADE you love her…' In Rolling Stone Magazine 2014, Prince did an interview where he spoke of The Time and Vanity… He said this; “It’s not just my vision. It’s one thing to say, ‘You know what would be cool?’ and visualize it … but then you’ve got to actually find the people. [The Time’s] Morris Day is as good as any funk drummer who ever did it. And Vanity? Nobody could talk like her.”

*

Violet Crush Said: "Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group."

*

Reply: What a bunch of made up BS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from that Brenda was more of a manager and speaker of the group? You're basing these assumptions from one interview where you saw Brenda take the lead in a conversation? Are you kidding me? Brenda helped her with her vocals sometimes. That was it... Vanity was the leader of the group, taking leadership and spoke eloquently in many interviews. What's your point about this exactly? Didn’t you say somewhere else that Susannah said she felt OWNED by Prince? That makes the point you're trying to make completely moot.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born-again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him."

*

Reply: Get your facts straight, Denise was a Christian way before she ended up in

the hospital on her deathbed.

*

VioletCrush Said: "Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that."

*

Since when is it said that Susannah was seeing other people on Prince? Lol. I think you are just saying that to make it look like Susannah didn't take his crap and played hardball with Prince the way Vanity did… (Good one... )

*

VioletCrush said: Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the others.

*

Reply: VioletCrush, you should at the very least make an attempt at a proper research before detailing false info on a book you obviously know absolutely nothing about. You do realize that Blame it On Vanity was about Denise's journey to Christ that barely had but five to six pages in which Denise wrote in parables about things she'd already talked about and everyone already knew about her relationship with Prince from interviews… Lol…

There were no, "in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince,"Barely anything on the group Vanity 6, Nothing at all on her "marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith…" Not even close that she was trying to profit off her relationship with Prince. The only profit she was after was bringing her fans to God. Denise said she was offered a million dollars to write a tell-all book about her life and turned it down. If she really wanted to profit she would have written a book for the ages. Everyone has always been interested in the story of Prince and Vanity. She could have scored if she really wanted to.

[Edited 9/15/18 21:39pm]

At Luvgirl: here are my resposes to you:

VioletCrush Said: "Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long-term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through."

*

Luvgirl said: Vanity was a very ingenious and clever person. She had plenty of attributes apart from her beauty that excited and invigorated Prince. That's why she was one of his most tremendous muses. Her dynamism moved and inspired Prince on many levels. She was an artist and a physically creative person -she was the inspiration and artist behind the 1999 album cover that Prince was so inspired by that he tried to re-create the artwork again as per Steve Parks. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." There were many layers to her artistry. She was also kind and nurturing. As Jill Jones stated that she tried to make all the girls as beautiful as she was, by teaching them how to apply make-up and dress. She was astute and witty along with that provocative allure. That combination is deadly. It's what took hold and grabbed the masses in 1982. There is no doubt that Prince was challenged and stimulated by Denise apart from her beauty. There is an interview from one of her movies where one of the commentaries stated that 'you didn't just only see her and fall in love…, Vanity MADE you love her…' In Rolling Stone Magazine 2014, Prince did an interview where he spoke of The Time and Vanity… He said this; “It’s not just my vision. It’s one thing to say, ‘You know what would be cool?’ and visualize it … but then you’ve got to actually find the people. [The Time’s] Morris Day is as good as any funk drummer who ever did it. And Vanity? Nobody could talk like her.”

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Reply: Wow, you are really romaticizing Prince's feelings here. How does "I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" and "nobody could talk like her" translate into Vanity being the love of his life?? I would say you are ebellishing here quite a bit, and projecting your own ideas onto the words. I think the "muse" for Prince with his women was depicted in how he portrayed them as performers, and with Vanity, it was sex. Her look, the songs, and the way she performed was all about sex. He also wanted to name her "Va-geena" As far as album artwork, that is great that she inspired or helped to design the 1999 album cover. Prince was obviously drawn to the artistic side as Susannah had done her design for The Dream Factory as well, and in the song Crystal Ball he also sings about her drawing on the walls when they lived together. She clearly was his muse during that period. Also, you're quoting a movie commentary, of which the purpose is to sell the movie?? Those were not Prince's words. Again, embellishing to make your point. Look, I have said numerous times that I think Vanity was a very beautiful woman, and Prince was clearly smitten with her when they met, and it was good for awhile. But like all of his more serious relationships there were monogamy issues and control issues too. I also think they met at a very young age when neither had matured enough, and Vanity unfortunately got into drugs in a hardcore way.

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Violet Crush Said: "Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group."

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Luvgirl said: What a bunch of made up BS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from that Brenda was more of a manager and speaker of the group? You're basing these assumptions from one interview where you saw Brenda take the lead in a conversation? Are you kidding me? Brenda helped her with her vocals sometimes. That was it... Vanity was the leader of the group, taking leadership and spoke eloquently in many interviews. What's your point about this exactly? Didn’t you say somewhere else that Susannah said she felt OWNED by Prince? That makes the point you're trying to make completely moot.

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Reply: No, not "made up BS" at all. I did read that Brenda was the one slated to keep the group in control. Remember, Brenda and Susan were there well before Vanity entered the scene. Jamie Schoop had been slotted to be the third girl, as I'm sure you know, and Prince had come up with the name "The Hookers" for them. Prince changed course when he met Vanity at the awards show in early '82. I believe Vanity stated she was living in NY at that time, and Prince convinced her to move to MN. She arrived and found that Prince and Susan were together, and was furious. It has also been said that Brenda and Vanity clashed quite a bit, which I'm sure had to do with her being close with Susan. This has all been written in Biographies and stated in interviews. Just because Vanity was the focal point of the group from a performance perspective doesn't mean she handled everything behind the scenes. Prince also had Susan, Vanity and Jill in rotation on an intimate level for awhile until Susan stepped out of the mix. This has also been documented.

VioletCrush Said: "Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born-again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him."

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Luvgirl said: Get your facts straight, Denise was a Christian way before she ended up in

the hospital on her deathbed.

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Reply: In the interview that I heard - again, one of the many of Vanity that are out there, she stated that she had "found Jesus", but wasn't fully ready to be "saved", and she had had a relapse with drugs. However, not long after the relapse she "became fully commited to Jesus Christ". The fact that she ended up in the hospital before or after she went toward religion is irrelevant, because the drug addiction was the cause of her body shutting down, and sadly, also the reason for her death at a young age.

VioletCrush Said: "Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that."

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Luvgirl said: Since when is it said that Susannah was seeing other people on Prince? Lol. I think you are just saying that to make it look like Susannah didn't take his crap and played hardball with Prince the way Vanity did… (Good one... )

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Reply: Oh, I have no doubt Susannah "played hardball" with Prince, however, it was most likely in in a more subtle but effective way. Listen to the songs from the now well-known Empty Room sessions - it's all in the lyrics. As Prince always said, "if you want to know about my life listen to my songs". Per Susannah's words, they were off and on for years. I have no doubt that she would see other guys during the time that Prince was having fun with whatever chick caught his eye at the time. She's a smart girl, and I have no doubt she knew how to push his buttons.

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VioletCrush said: Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

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"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

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I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the others.

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Luvgirl said: VioletCrush, you should at the very least make an attempt at a proper research before detailing false info on a book you obviously know absolutely nothing about. You do realize that Blame it On Vanity was about Denise's journey to Christ that barely had but five to six pages in which Denise wrote in parables about things she'd already talked about and everyone already knew about her relationship with Prince from interviews… Lol…

There were no, "in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince,"Barely anything on the group Vanity 6, Nothing at all on her "marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith…" Not even close that she was trying to profit off her relationship with Prince. The only profit she was after was bringing her fans to God. Denise said she was offered a million dollars to write a tell-all book about her life and turned it down. If she really wanted to profit she would have written a book for the ages. Everyone has always been interested in the story of Prince and Vanity. She could have scored if she really wanted to.

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Reply: THIS WAS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM A WEB SITE THAT WAS PROMOTING HER BOOK AT THE TIME IT WAS PUBLISHED, WHICH IS WHY I HAD IT IN QUOTES:

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1759559.Blame_It_On_Vanity

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Luvgirl: you should understand that Vanity's publisher, and no doubt Vanity herself, knew full well that the most enticing thing about her book would be any information she included about Prince. No way it was known to the public what information she had in the book about Prince. This is marketing 101. And I do believe that prior to her death the book was re-issued and selling for quite a large amount of money.

Regarding my comments about the original subject of this thread (the ILUBIDTU song), my statements were 1) In a televised interview to promote her book in Europe, Mayte was asked specifically about this song. She replied that no, she did not say those words to Prince, nor did he say them to her. She said the song was not about their relationship. 2) During his last P&M show Prince sang the song and after the lyric, "I remember meeting you here back in the good old days", he then said, "the 80's". Now as far as I know, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, the only person he gave an engagement ring to in the 80's was Susannah. If you have confirmation of someone else please let me know. So my point was, whether or not the song was originall written about someone else, he was clearly referencing that time period.

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Look, most fans know by now the women with whom Prince was more serious - Kim Upsher, Susan, Vanity, Susannah, Kim B (? not sure), Mayte and Manuela. Most have their thoughts on one who may have "had his heart" to a stronger degree. For that, I'm "team Susannah", mainly because of the songs and the information written in the Biiogrpahies. And based on your thorough "smack down" of my various posts here I have no doubt you would be "team Vanity", and that's just great, because we are all entitled to our views and opinions on these things

[Edited 9/15/18 23:29pm]

[Edited 9/15/18 23:31pm]

[Edited 9/15/18 23:33pm]

Regarding Denise's re-publishing of her book, it was in 2014. and here is the information from her Gofundme page:

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"I wish to republish my autobiography, "BLAME IT ON VANITY. My book will help fund my ongoing bills for the 23 surgeries i have had over the many years including my continued dialysis 3 x's a week. I have been saved in Jesus over 23 years now and entirely blessed to be alive.I know my testimony has saved so many people from Unforgivenes, Abuse and being abused, drug addiction, hollywood and the games thereof, lusts of the flesh and especially from Suicide. For this is am raising funds for my lifes work in the ministry my book and as i said before my ongoing bills. To surmise my story

She was formerly known as the singer song-writer and actress Vanity, lead to the group Vanity-six and mentored by the musician Prince. Nevertheless, in 1992, she was born again and raised from the dead by the power of
God our Lord Jesus Christ, and He calls her by her birth name, Denise."Prior to finding my Lord and Savior I lived in the bottomless pit of Hollywood's deception. Lust, drugs Rock n Roll....i was living in the depths of iniquity versed with carnality and suicidal thoughts of leaving this world...
"Sinking down into deep depression I camouflaged my pain with even more makeup and a fake smile." "My shocking testimony of 250 high blood pressure over 190, heart attack,
stroke, kidney failure, blood clots to the brain and blindness complete as well as deafness left me with only three days to live."
"With the devil breathing down my neck, trying desperately
to snatch and strangle me for hell, I repented."
"Yes one sweet day my Jesus reached down with his long
extended love and pulled my wretched body up from the darkness. Him only do I worship with a tremendous blast of fiery passion. I live, move, breath, love and have my being in Jesus The Christ. Enslaved to His truth"...I am Denise! no longer Vanity for the name means WORTHLESSNES...we are not worthless."

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One thing that is clear here is that Denise went through many struggles throughout her too-short life here, but she most definitely found clarity and love within her religious community, her work as an Evangelist, and her faith. May she Rest In Peace.

[Edited 9/15/18 23:43pm]

How much does a person grow or mature from the ages of 31-35--compared to the emotional development that occurs in the years before 16 and 19?? (somewhere between those two ages teenagers are deemed old enough to be drafted into wars, and move away from their parents).

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

Or maybe trust is not just about who cheated. In his position, it would be hard to trust most folks. He didn't help by being untrustworthy himself of course. But I always suspected that Prince himself had trust issues, wondered if people loved him for who he was or what he could get for them. Mayte, I don't know, but there were rumors of a Spanish dancer that she didn't say anything about. But let's say she was faithful--she also was a ambitious young dancer whose mother was a stage mom(her statement not mine). It had to cross his mind occassionally that he was being used. Don't get me wrong --he was insecure enough to believe that he couldn't just date an equal of a different field, that he had to date someone to which he could offer the world and a career..but its a catch 22. Maybe that (along with her age) is why the courtship took so long. He wanted to see if he could trust her to stick around even after the accolades for her talents came her way. Prince needed to date outside his little musical circle obviously. Maybe that song was his reaction to her statement about not trusting him..maybe its him saying you don't trust me due to unfaithfulness but I don't trust you either due to wondering where your heart is. We only know her side; but he certainly has his. Its funny but in the Montreux Jazz festival in 2009 (show 2) , he sang the line "I know you love me baby, but you don't trust me and you don't love me not much anymore". Freudian slip or maybe this trust thing is more complicated than we thought.

[Edited 9/8/18 10:45am]

I heard that change of lyric in Montreux as well, but by that time, he could have been referring to any number of his relationships. Considering that he allegedly started a relationship with Manuela while he was still with Mayte I would say that he would be the one on the receiving end of those lyrics. Although, Mayte was living in Spain and spending most of her time alone, so it would not have been surprising if she "hooked up" with a Spanish dancer. Can't really blame her at all.

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I think it is very rare that a relationship/marriage works with such an extreme age difference. She was 16 and he was 32 when they met. That is just CRAZY to me. She had to have seen him as more of a "father figure" or "Uncle" when she first arrived at PP. In a televised interview, when asked about being attracted to him when she started working with him, she stated something to the effect of, "ewwwww, no way, not at all!" She always claims that her attraction/feelings "evolved" over time. That makes no sense to me. As she got older, so did he.

violetcrush said:

LaurenceNoonan said:

WTF has Little Red Corvet got to do with Eye Love U But Eye Don't Trust U Anymore

Nothing, but it was brought up by a poster with regard to the discussion of the subjects of his songs. Then it took off on a diversion of its own about the woman Mi-Ling, who came out with her story of dating Prince back in the late 70's and being the inspiration for the song.

mi ling sounded kinda nutty but most of her interview rang true really. she mentioned she was dating mike weaver, the boxer and had a pic of him on her wall and that's where the line "jockey's who were here before me" and she even mentioned the details of Mike's career which nearly no woman would know as women are the followers of the sport, I know all the details because I'm a boxing nut, but for her to know them, it rang true. she also said that his dancing was spastic like, of course we could see that without her saying it on american bandstand, but just little details like that rang true. whether the song was for her or not? that part, i just don't know. We should take a vote,cast your vote eye love you but i don't trust you anymore mine goes to mayte with a little reservation.

Professional control and personal control are not always the same thing. And maybe the control shifted back and forth on the personal level. The women in his life did influence him..Mayte's animal activism and Egyptian connections seem to pre-date Prince's, Vanity's acting pursuits did pre-date Prince's, hell, even Andy Allo's afro pre-dated Prince's later embrace of his natural hair..also, she is the one who convinced him to do the piano and microphone tour. Wendy and Lisa's musical interests sometimes influenced him. People have described Prince as a sponge.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.

And here we go with your generalizations AGAIN regarding just about everything. It's not about winning any kind of argument. It's about opinions, thoughts, and also referencing reliable and more reputable sources in relation to those opinions and thoughts.

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I'm not arguing that you watched a video of her stating she and Prince were "leaders". However, I happened to listen to an interview where she stated that Prince controlled everything, and if she didn't wear the clothes and do what he wanted her to do, she would not get paid. She was not bashing Prince, just stating the facts. She said it was her choice to go down that road - I believe she stated at that time she had "door #1, door #2 or door #3, and she chose door #...." However, she made it clear that she was not the one making those decisions.

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Okay, right. You were asked to speak on a Podcast....which one?? Unless you are actually Cat Glover or Cat Dyson, I remain skeptical of your connection to Prince. Even in your few private Org notes to me - you detailed your personal life, but did not give any type of evidence as to your time with Prince. Until then, you are an anonymous fan like the rest of us.

[Edited 9/15/18 23:52pm]