SkipperLove said:

I had no daddy issues. My dad was not abusive in any way..a little domineering over my mother but not abusive. That all being said, I did have crushes on older men as a teenager-- movie stars, rock stars and even a male high school teacher. I found many boys my own age to be annoying, immature and boring--with some exceptions. In high school, I never acted on my older crushes and probably would have felt creeped out if a teacher hit on me due to the fact that the teacher was someone I was literally forced to listen to and follow rules.. But I don't think you have to have daddy issues to find older men attractive. Prince was a rock star who was small, baby-faced, a bit effeminate in his looks and looked younger than his years--kind of non-threatening appearance wise. . I do think younger women found him attractive just like many rock stars attract young women. So I don't agree. In college, I had this professor who was British, highly intelligent and extremely good looking. He was probably about 35 years old. I was about 19 or 20. If he had hit on me, I think I would have been game. He didn't.

violetcrush said:

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same. I was quite experienced with boys/relationships through my teens, and was working a Summer job at a nightclub as a cocktail waitress at 19 in between college semesters. I had a 28 yr old guy who made every effort possible to get me to go on a date with him, and I had absolutely no interest. I looked at him as a much older man, and that was only a 9-10 yr age difference. The severity of the age gap does close somewhat in later years, but certainly not with 16 to 32.

*

Also, "stage Moms" are notoriously protective of their daughters. The intensity is directed at the success of the performances - not with their daughters getting hooked up with older men. That is something altogether different, which is why her Mother is often referred to as "Pimp Momma". I have an 11 yr old daughter - I don't care how talented a performer I think she is - I would NEVER put her in that position. I think you'll find many Mothers feel the same, unless fame and money are their priority.

*

Regarding Prince as "always wanting to be that "fairytale" persona with his women - not at all how Susannah described him. She stated there were many nights with him where it was just popcorn and television on the couch. Susan Rogers has also told the story of going over to his house on Thanksgiving to visit him and Susannah, and finding him asleep on the couch. So, no - it seems he could very well be a "regular" guy with those he was initimate with and loved.

I don't believe that I said "all girls" attracted to much older men have Daddy issues, however, there are many that do. Regarding younger proteges who had relationhips with Prince - no doubt some of that may have been tied to their aspirations, and not just strictly their attraction to him.

PeteSilas said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

I surely can see Vanity as a leader. We all have our moments when we can be the leader when it calls for it and a team player at other times. Life isnt absolutes. She did what she had to do to be famous and she did love and respect Prince. I am sure she gave Prince the business alot of times hence the fights. She was fiery and intelligent imo. She chose to leave and stop playing the game. Back to Prince songs and if ELUBEDTUA and others, and what woman are they about. I can totally believe that when Prince wrote love songs it could also be about more than 1 woman at any given time. Or he wrote a love song about one particular woman in that moment in time but years later morphed that song in his head to pertain about another woman who hurt him. I believe Prince couldve been in love with more than 1 woman at any particular time. Although I do feel certain woman left a strong, intense impression on him that lasted his whole life. [Edited 9/15/18 10:19am]

nothing i have ever seen from her made me think "Strong person, leadership potential" in fact, just the opposite, her interviews she was ditzy, even the later ones where I couldn't even recognize her, when she became a christian. It was actually sad to see when I saw her interviews 11 years ago, how much life, time, drugs had robbed her of her beauty, I honestly couldn't recognize her.

Right Pete. Beautiful yes, amazing body yes, sexy yes...all of those things. However, intellectual, well spoken, clear headed....not so much. As Prince did say, she definitely loved to talk though. In most of her interviews the host often has a hard time getting questions in.

*

I think the drugs had a lot to do with this though. I imagine it's hard to be focused and well spoken when you are high. Regarding her beauty, I actually felt, considering what she'd been through with her health, that she looked quite good. Also, she wasn't concerned with or focused on the beauty aspect anymore. She was done with all of that.

violetcrush said:

I think the maturity to look away from being beauty focused does speak to
Deep thinking on her part.

As a 19 year old cocktail waitress, I wouldn't find any dude hitting on me attractive. I would assume they were skeevy especially if they are older.

To some extent its almost Freudian that men who resemble our dads in some way are a comfort to us. (No I don't have a sick crush on my dad. I am just saying there is a comfort when you discover some of the similarities between other men and one's dad.) But it is also the thought of getting to know the ropes from more mature experienced folks that can be enticing, someone whose presense will elevate you and help you grow but hopefully also recognize/appreciate your potential. If a person has success, some worldliness, but also can be childlike and fun--that's enticing..even to me now. A dude hitting on a cocktail waitress in a nightclub just seems immature and superficial (IMO).

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

I had no daddy issues. My dad was not abusive in any way..a little domineering over my mother but not abusive. That all being said, I did have crushes on older men as a teenager-- movie stars, rock stars and even a male high school teacher. I found many boys my own age to be annoying, immature and boring--with some exceptions. In high school, I never acted on my older crushes and probably would have felt creeped out if a teacher hit on me due to the fact that the teacher was someone I was literally forced to listen to and follow rules.. But I don't think you have to have daddy issues to find older men attractive. Prince was a rock star who was small, baby-faced, a bit effeminate in his looks and looked younger than his years--kind of non-threatening appearance wise. . I do think younger women found him attractive just like many rock stars attract young women. So I don't agree. In college, I had this professor who was British, highly intelligent and extremely good looking. He was probably about 35 years old. I was about 19 or 20. If he had hit on me, I think I would have been game. He didn't.

I don't believe that I said "all girls" attracted to much older men have Daddy issues, however, there are many that do. Regarding younger proteges who had relationhips with Prince - no doubt some of that may have been tied to their aspirations, and not just strictly their attraction to him.

[Edited 9/16/18 0:10am]

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

nothing i have ever seen from her made me think "Strong person, leadership potential" in fact, just the opposite, her interviews she was ditzy, even the later ones where I couldn't even recognize her, when she became a christian. It was actually sad to see when I saw her interviews 11 years ago, how much life, time, drugs had robbed her of her beauty, I honestly couldn't recognize her.

Right Pete. Beautiful yes, amazing body yes, sexy yes...all of those things. However, intellectual, well spoken, clear headed....not so much. As Prince did say, she definitely loved to talk though. In most of her interviews the host often has a hard time getting questions in.

*

I think the drugs had a lot to do with this though. I imagine it's hard to be focused and well spoken when you are high. Regarding her beauty, I actually felt, considering what she'd been through with her health, that she looked quite good. Also, she wasn't concerned with or focused on the beauty aspect anymore. She was done with all of that.

i'm sure you're right about that, she wasn't concerned about that but like people who used to say about Muhammad Ali, "I don't think he has regrets, WE have regrets that he's not what he was". She was beautiful so it was shocking and sad to see her after almost twenty years, this was in the very early years of online vid, i think 2005, so, it was, i guess about 12 years ago, so, she wasn't that old, she looked awful and it depressed me. but, we all get old, people see me and ask "what happened" same answer "I got old".

PeteSilas said:

I thought her book was going for 500 or something. didn't she say something about her and prince seeing demons or something? I never read or even saw the book and you mention 1999, do you mean the album time period or actual 1999, I never heard they had much communication after the breakup until they were both dead and people here mentioned they thought Prince tried to win her back. I never believed it, I have to say, those things are of minor interest to me as a fan, his lovelife, but those things are always part of the story of any great man's.

violetcrush said:

Vanity wrote a book about her life, "Blame It On Vanity", including details of her relationship with Prince in 1999:

*

"It was no small secret that Denise Matthews was newly christened Vanity, Warner Bros. had announced to the world there was a "hot new girl in town." This book is Denise's personal account of her rise to stardom, an in-depth insight into her relationship with Prince, the group Vanity 6, her personal trials including her marriage/divorce to football player Anthony Smith, and her conversion to the religion of Jesus Christ."

*

I believe prior to her death the books were re-issued and had a sale price of $250 or more?. So, in that sense she was attempting to profit from him, as most of the interest for her book would be the details of her time with Prince - just as with the the others.

Pete, her book was first published in 1999. Then she re-published it in 2014 via a Gofundme page in order to try to cover medical expenses. This is when the price was somewhere btw $250-500. Very sad all around.

*

Yes, I think a lot of "fan fantasy fiction" going on, because they coincidentally passed away in the same year. The YT channel of 'Prince and Vanity, The Supernatural Lovers" always cracks me up. In the interview that I listened to, which I thought was 2012, but may have been closer to 2014, when she was re-publishing her book, she said the last time she spoke to him was 2007-2008. I can't remember if she specified whether it was via phone or in person.

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

Right Pete. Beautiful yes, amazing body yes, sexy yes...all of those things. However, intellectual, well spoken, clear headed....not so much. As Prince did say, she definitely loved to talk though. In most of her interviews the host often has a hard time getting questions in.

*

I think the drugs had a lot to do with this though. I imagine it's hard to be focused and well spoken when you are high. Regarding her beauty, I actually felt, considering what she'd been through with her health, that she looked quite good. Also, she wasn't concerned with or focused on the beauty aspect anymore. She was done with all of that.

I think the maturity to look away from being beauty focused does speak to Deep thinking on her part.

I think that is religion. She let go of her past, the Vanity character, and everything associated with it. She knew those were the things that were bringing her down and causing her pain. So she gave them up to be "saved" by Jesus - as she has said during many interviews. I posted her comments from her Gofundme page on an earlier post. She describes it there.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Right Pete. Beautiful yes, amazing body yes, sexy yes...all of those things. However, intellectual, well spoken, clear headed....not so much. As Prince did say, she definitely loved to talk though. In most of her interviews the host often has a hard time getting questions in.

*

I think the drugs had a lot to do with this though. I imagine it's hard to be focused and well spoken when you are high. Regarding her beauty, I actually felt, considering what she'd been through with her health, that she looked quite good. Also, she wasn't concerned with or focused on the beauty aspect anymore. She was done with all of that.

i'm sure you're right about that, she wasn't concerned about that but like people who used to say about Muhammad Ali, "I don't think he has regrets, WE have regrets that he's not what he was". She was beautiful so it was shocking and sad to see her after almost twenty years, this was in the very early years of online vid, i think 2005, so, it was, i guess about 12 years ago, so, she wasn't that old, she looked awful and it depressed me. but, we all get old, people see me and ask "what happened" same answer "I got old".

Yes, aging sucks!!!! Even when you are healthy and trying to take care of yourself....you can't beat out aging. And often, those who can afford all of the expensive treatments usually just end up looking like an older person who has had treatments.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

I thought her book was going for 500 or something. didn't she say something about her and prince seeing demons or something? I never read or even saw the book and you mention 1999, do you mean the album time period or actual 1999, I never heard they had much communication after the breakup until they were both dead and people here mentioned they thought Prince tried to win her back. I never believed it, I have to say, those things are of minor interest to me as a fan, his lovelife, but those things are always part of the story of any great man's.

Pete, her book was first published in 1999. Then she re-published it in 2014 via a Gofundme page in order to try to cover medical expenses. This is when the price was somewhere btw $250-500. Very sad all around.

*

Yes, I think a lot of "fan fantasy fiction" going on, because they coincidentally passed away in the same year. The YT channel of 'Prince and Vanity, The Supernatural Lovers" always cracks me up. In the interview that I listened to, which I thought was 2012, but may have been closer to 2014, when she was re-publishing her book, she said the last time she spoke to him was 2007-2008. I can't remember if she specified whether it was via phone or in person.

what i found odd was that Prince didn't help her out if he was that hurt over her death, she was in financial straights, maybe he felt guilty afterwards, maybe that's even why he sent money to brenda and susan and appolonia (attempted), who knows. But it was a day late and dollar short by that point. I conjectured that the guilt of the lifestyle that he got her into may have bothered him in his last days.

SkipperLove said:

How much does a person grow or mature from the ages of 31-35--compared to the emotional development that occurs in the years before 16 and 19?? (somewhere between those two ages teenagers are deemed old enough to be drafted into wars, and move away from their parents).

violetcrush said:

I heard that change of lyric in Montreux as well, but by that time, he could have been referring to any number of his relationships. Considering that he allegedly started a relationship with Manuela while he was still with Mayte I would say that he would be the one on the receiving end of those lyrics. Although, Mayte was living in Spain and spending most of her time alone, so it would not have been surprising if she "hooked up" with a Spanish dancer. Can't really blame her at all.

*

I think it is very rare that a relationship/marriage works with such an extreme age difference. She was 16 and he was 32 when they met. That is just CRAZY to me. She had to have seen him as more of a "father figure" or "Uncle" when she first arrived at PP. In a televised interview, when asked about being attracted to him when she started working with him, she stated something to the effect of, "ewwwww, no way, not at all!" She always claims that her attraction/feelings "evolved" over time. That makes no sense to me. As she got older, so did he.

Oh, I think there is a huge jump in emotional maturity between not just 16-19, but 16-25. It is said that in every decade of life we go through changes - whether it be maturity, which obviously is prevalent through the teen years and twenties, emotional changes, and of course physical changes. There is a distinct difference between the way a 16-19 yr old behaves and views life as compared to a 31-35 yr old. It's surprising to me that anyone would argue differently. I know how I was thinking and acting at 16 and also at 35, and there are vast differences.

*

The draft age and age of adult consent of 18 was determined by our Government. It in no way means that most 18 yr olds are mentally and/or physically mature enough to go to war. I think we have evidence of this from all of our past wars fought. An 18 yr old moving away from home for the first time is also vastly different than a 30+ yr old who has been established for many years. Two totally different ways of living.

SkipperLove said:

As a 19 year old cocktail waitress, I wouldn't find any dude hitting on me attractive. I would assume they were skeevy especially if they are older.

To some extent its almost Freudian that men who resemble our dads in some way are a comfort to us. (No I don't have a sick crush on my dad. I am just saying there is a comfort when you discover some of the similarities between other men and one's dad.) But it is also the thought of getting to know the ropes from more mature experienced folks that can be enticing, someone whose presense will elevate you and help you grow but hopefully also recognize/appreciate your potential. If a person has success, some worldliness, but also can be childlike and fun--that's enticing..even to me now. A dude hitting on a cocktail waitress in a nightclub just seems immature and superficial (IMO).

violetcrush said:

I don't believe that I said "all girls" attracted to much older men have Daddy issues, however, there are many that do. Regarding younger proteges who had relationhips with Prince - no doubt some of that may have been tied to their aspirations, and not just strictly their attraction to him.

[Edited 9/16/18 0:10am]

The scene wasn't quite like that. He was not some drunk dude coming up with a pickup line. He was a frequent customer, and would come in with his friends on Fridays after work for happy hour. Really nice, respectful guy. We would chat a bit, and after seeing him there many times and speaking to him, he finally asked me if I'd be interested in going to dinner sometime. I thought he was attractive and very nice, but just too old and too mature for me.

*

I actually think the way Mayte met Prince was quite skeevy - shuffled backstage before or after the concert to meet Prince, because her Mom found a way to get her bellydancing tape to his security guys?? Sorry, but ewwwww. Actually very superficial and forced, but that's showbiz for ya!

I think you missed my point. You said that as she got older, so did he. I interpreted that as meaning that they both matured. I was saying that only one of them necessarily matured. I wasn't talking about the differences between a late teen and a 31 year old when it comes to maturity. Yes, a person can mature after the age of 30 but I doubt the emotional development increases at the rate a teenager's does as they approach 20. I agree that 18 years old are too young to fight wars but obviously folks must think that they can handle it better than a 15 or 16 year old. And yes, a 18 or 19 year old can live on their own (presumably better than the average 16 year old.) Late teens are still naive on average..I am not disagreeing but they are still learning and evolving at a relatively quick rate. But I reckon even a 31 years old, who have been living in a creative bubble since their mid-teens, might be a bit emotionally stunted in some respects. All this being said, I am not in any way equating the maturity of a 31 with that of a 19 year old. I am merely stating that there is a difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old where maturity is concerned.

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

How much does a person grow or mature from the ages of 31-35--compared to the emotional development that occurs in the years before 16 and 19?? (somewhere between those two ages teenagers are deemed old enough to be drafted into wars, and move away from their parents).

Oh, I think there is a huge jump in emotional maturity between not just 16-19, but 16-25. It is said that in every decade of life we go through changes - whether it be maturity, which obviously is prevalent through the teen years and twenties, emotional changes, and of course physical changes. There is a distinct difference between the way a 16-19 yr old behaves and views life as compared to a 31-35 yr old. It's surprising to me that anyone would argue differently. I know how I was thinking and acting at 16 and also at 35, and there are vast differences.

*

The draft age and age of adult consent of 18 was determined by our Government. It in no way means that most 18 yr olds are mentally and/or physically mature enough to go to war. I think we have evidence of this from all of our past wars fought. An 18 yr old moving away from home for the first time is also vastly different than a 30+ yr old who has been established for many years. Two totally different ways of living.

Well, I am glad to hear the dude was respectful. Don't mean to assume. As for the Mayte/Prince thing, how they were introduced may have been skeevy, but she described him as respectful..so at least he didn't take the video as an invite to grope her or something like that. I agree her parents seemed to allow her to be in a precarious situation. But I do believe her sister went along with her for a short while and Prince did meet her family in Puerto Rico. It could have been much worse. In Germany, which I believe is where they met, the age of consent is quite low. In Europe, on average, its much lower. If he wanted to do it, it sounds like he could have gotten away with it. She claims he did not attempt it.

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

As a 19 year old cocktail waitress, I wouldn't find any dude hitting on me attractive. I would assume they were skeevy especially if they are older.

To some extent its almost Freudian that men who resemble our dads in some way are a comfort to us. (No I don't have a sick crush on my dad. I am just saying there is a comfort when you discover some of the similarities between other men and one's dad.) But it is also the thought of getting to know the ropes from more mature experienced folks that can be enticing, someone whose presense will elevate you and help you grow but hopefully also recognize/appreciate your potential. If a person has success, some worldliness, but also can be childlike and fun--that's enticing..even to me now. A dude hitting on a cocktail waitress in a nightclub just seems immature and superficial (IMO).

[Edited 9/16/18 0:10am]

The scene wasn't quite like that. He was not some drunk dude coming up with a pickup line. He was a frequent customer, and would come in with his friends on Fridays after work for happy hour. Really nice, respectful guy. We would chat a bit, and after seeing him there many times and speaking to him, he finally asked me if I'd be interested in going to dinner sometime. I thought he was attractive and very nice, but just too old and too mature for me.

*

I actually think the way Mayte met Prince was quite skeevy - shuffled backstage before or after the concert to meet Prince, because her Mom found a way to get her bellydancing tape to his security guys?? Sorry, but ewwwww. Actually very superficial and forced, but that's showbiz for ya!

[Edited 9/16/18 0:55am]

[Edited 9/16/18 0:56am]

SkipperLove said:

Well, I am glad to hear the dude was respectful. Don't mean to assume. As for the Mayte/Prince thing, how they were introduced may have been skeevy, but she described him as respectful..so at least he didn't take the video as an invite to grope her or something like that. I agree her parents seemed to allow her to be in a precarious situation. But I do believe her sister went along with her for a short while and Prince did meet her family in Puerto Rico. It could have been much worse.

violetcrush said:

The scene wasn't quite like that. He was not some drunk dude coming up with a pickup line. He was a frequent customer, and would come in with his friends on Fridays after work for happy hour. Really nice, respectful guy. We would chat a bit, and after seeing him there many times and speaking to him, he finally asked me if I'd be interested in going to dinner sometime. I thought he was attractive and very nice, but just too old and too mature for me.

*

I actually think the way Mayte met Prince was quite skeevy - shuffled backstage before or after the concert to meet Prince, because her Mom found a way to get her bellydancing tape to his security guys?? Sorry, but ewwwww. Actually very superficial and forced, but that's showbiz for ya!

Oh, I'm sure Prince was nothing but respectful toward her when he met her at the concert. I believe it was also about a year before he asked her to move to MN. I'm sure he met her parents prior to her moving there. However, still a very tough situation for a 17yr old to experience on her own. I can't imagine. Had to be quite scary for her I'm sure.

Didn't she say she had her own apartment when she went on tour with him and that the guardianship was so that she could legally tour with him. Yes, I agree that it would still be a scary situation. I wonder why her parents didn't insist on going too. I believe Andy Allo's brother went on tour with her when she toured with Prince to make sure things were cool. And Andy was definitely legal at 22.

Correction--I misread you. You didn't say move in with Prince, you said move to MN..either way, it was scary. Maybe, momma was there frequently.

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

Well, I am glad to hear the dude was respectful. Don't mean to assume. As for the Mayte/Prince thing, how they were introduced may have been skeevy, but she described him as respectful..so at least he didn't take the video as an invite to grope her or something like that. I agree her parents seemed to allow her to be in a precarious situation. But I do believe her sister went along with her for a short while and Prince did meet her family in Puerto Rico. It could have been much worse.

Oh, I'm sure Prince was nothing but respectful toward her when he met her at the concert. I believe it was also about a year before he asked her to move to MN. I'm sure he met her parents prior to her moving there. However, still a very tough situation for a 17yr old to experience on her own. I can't imagine. Had to be quite scary for her I'm sure.

[Edited 9/16/18 1:02am]

SkipperLove said:

I think you missed my point. You said that as she got older, so did he. I interpreted that as meaning that they both matured. I was saying that only one of them necessarily matured. I wasn't talking about the differences between a late teen and a 31 year old when it comes to maturity. Yes, a person can mature after the age of 30 but I doubt the emotional development increases at the rate a teenager's does as they approach 20. I agree that 18 years old are too young to fight wars but obviously folks must think that they can handle it better than a 15 or 16 year old. And yes, a 18 or 19 year old can live on their own (presumably better than the average 16 year old.) Late teens are still naive on average..I am not disagreeing but they are still learning and evolving at a relatively quick rate. But I reckon even a 31 years old, who have been living in a creative bubble since their mid-teens, might be a bit emotionally stunted in some respects. All this being said, I am not in any way equating the maturity of a 31 with that of a 19 year old. I am merely stating that there is a difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old where maturity is concerned.

violetcrush said:

Oh, I think there is a huge jump in emotional maturity between not just 16-19, but 16-25. It is said that in every decade of life we go through changes - whether it be maturity, which obviously is prevalent through the teen years and twenties, emotional changes, and of course physical changes. There is a distinct difference between the way a 16-19 yr old behaves and views life as compared to a 31-35 yr old. It's surprising to me that anyone would argue differently. I know how I was thinking and acting at 16 and also at 35, and there are vast differences.

*

The draft age and age of adult consent of 18 was determined by our Government. It in no way means that most 18 yr olds are mentally and/or physically mature enough to go to war. I think we have evidence of this from all of our past wars fought. An 18 yr old moving away from home for the first time is also vastly different than a 30+ yr old who has been established for many years. Two totally different ways of living.

I just meant that he would still seem much older to her. Just in general, it's a very large age difference when someone is that young, no matter who you are or what world you live in.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Pete, her book was first published in 1999. Then she re-published it in 2014 via a Gofundme page in order to try to cover medical expenses. This is when the price was somewhere btw $250-500. Very sad all around.

*

Yes, I think a lot of "fan fantasy fiction" going on, because they coincidentally passed away in the same year. The YT channel of 'Prince and Vanity, The Supernatural Lovers" always cracks me up. In the interview that I listened to, which I thought was 2012, but may have been closer to 2014, when she was re-publishing her book, she said the last time she spoke to him was 2007-2008. I can't remember if she specified whether it was via phone or in person.

what i found odd was that Prince didn't help her out if he was that hurt over her death, she was in financial straights, maybe he felt guilty afterwards, maybe that's even why he sent money to brenda and susan and appolonia (attempted), who knows. But it was a day late and dollar short by that point. I conjectured that the guilt of the lifestyle that he got her into may have bothered him in his last days.

We don't know that for sure. He may very well have offered her help between 2014-2016. We don't know for sure. She also may have refused money from him.

*

Yes, he may have had some guilt, but Vanity made her own choices with regard to drugs. Prince did not force her in that direction. No doubt he was reaching out to many people from his past who had been close to him though. I think he was doing that as far back as a couple of years before he passed.

SkipperLove said:

Didn't she say she had her own apartment when she went on tour with him and that the guardianship was so that she could legally tour with him. Yes, I agree that it would still be a scary situation. I wonder why her parents didn't insist on going too. I believe Andy Allo's brother went on tour with her when she toured with Prince to make sure things were cool. And Andy was definitely legal at 22.

Correction--I misread you. You didn't say move in with Prince, you said move to MN..either way, it was scary. Maybe, momma was there frequently.

violetcrush said:

Oh, I'm sure Prince was nothing but respectful toward her when he met her at the concert. I believe it was also about a year before he asked her to move to MN. I'm sure he met her parents prior to her moving there. However, still a very tough situation for a 17yr old to experience on her own. I can't imagine. Had to be quite scary for her I'm sure.

[Edited 9/16/18 1:02am]

I don't think she saw her Mother or family much. They were on the road most of the time. Diamonds & Pearls, Act 1 and Act 2 tours. A lot going on. From what I have read, when you worked for/with Prince there was not much time for your family.

I agree. We don't know what he did or didn't do where Vanity was concerned. We also don't know if he even knew how to contact her or visa versa. He gave money to Rosie Gaines before he died (People commenting on Sheila E's facebook page in 2014/2015 snarkily assumed that he wasn't helping out..Sheila corrected them.)

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

what i found odd was that Prince didn't help her out if he was that hurt over her death, she was in financial straights, maybe he felt guilty afterwards, maybe that's even why he sent money to brenda and susan and appolonia (attempted), who knows. But it was a day late and dollar short by that point. I conjectured that the guilt of the lifestyle that he got her into may have bothered him in his last days.

We don't know that for sure. He may very well have offered her help between 2014-2016. We don't know for sure. She also may have refused money from him.

*

Yes, he may have had some guilt, but Vanity made her own choices with regard to drugs. Prince did not force her in that direction. No doubt he was reaching out to many people from his past who had been close to him though. I think he was doing that as far back as a couple of years before he passed.

[Edited 9/16/18 1:27am]

Andy's brother went along despite the hard nature of his touring.

violetcrush said:

SkipperLove said:

Didn't she say she had her own apartment when she went on tour with him and that the guardianship was so that she could legally tour with him. Yes, I agree that it would still be a scary situation. I wonder why her parents didn't insist on going too. I believe Andy Allo's brother went on tour with her when she toured with Prince to make sure things were cool. And Andy was definitely legal at 22.

Correction--I misread you. You didn't say move in with Prince, you said move to MN..either way, it was scary. Maybe, momma was there frequently.

[Edited 9/16/18 1:02am]

I don't think she saw her Mother or family much. They were on the road most of the time. Diamonds & Pearls, Act 1 and Act 2 tours. A lot going on. From what I have read, when you worked for/with Prince there was not much time for your family.

Violetcrush Said: "Wow, you are really romanticizing Prince's feelings here. How does "I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" and "nobody could talk like her" translate into Vanity being the love of his life?? I would say you are embellishing here quite a bit and projecting your own ideas onto the words. I think the "muse" for Prince with his women was depicted in how he portrayed them as performers, and with Vanity, it was sex. Her look, the songs, and the way she performed was all about sex. He also wanted to name her "Va-geena"

*

Reply: You're twisting again. Didn't you imply that Vanity had nothing to offer Prince apart from her beauty? You basically called her dumb and uninteresting. I opinioned otherwise, showcasing her attributes and some of Prince's comments about those facets. I said nothing about her being the love of Prince's life here… I'm the romanticizer? You are the queen of romanticizing and embellishing Prince's relationship with Susannah since the short timespan you've been here. I've never seen anything like it. Your tactics are disturbing because you try to pit her up against other women (Mostly Vanity or Mayte…) Dragging them through the mud as much as possible. It's like some kind of competition to you that you must prove on the Org at all cost (and have it stick) that Susannah was the muse behind, EVERY. SINGLE. SONG, and the love of Prince's life. You are on a mission!

*

VioletCrush Said: No, not "made up BS" at all. I did read that Brenda was the one slated to keep the group in control. Remember, Brenda and Susan were there well before Vanity entered the scene. Jamie Schoop had been slotted to be the third girl, as I'm sure you know, and Prince had come up with the name "The Hookers" for them. Prince changed course when he met Vanity at the awards show in early '82. I believe Vanity stated she was living in NY at that time, and Prince convinced her to move to MN. She arrived and found that Prince and Susan were together, and was furious. It has also been said that Brenda and Vanity clashed quite a bit, which I'm sure had to do with her being close with Susan. This has all been written in Biographies and stated in interviews. Just because Vanity was the focal point of the group from a performance perspective doesn't mean she handled everything behind the scenes. Prince also had Susan, Vanity, and Jill in rotation on an intimate level for awhile until Susan stepped out of the mix. This has also been documented.

*

Reply: I know exactly what you read, you read one book that stated that Brenda helped Vanity with her vocals and you saw an interview where Brenda took the lead in the conversation, and you took that to the MOUNTAINS… What does Prince having Jill and Susan on rotation on an intimate level have to do with my comment about you twisting the facts about Brenda's position in the group?? You do know that Prince had a different rotation going on with Susannah, don't you? Sheila E being a very prominent part of that rotation and a major love interest in his life at that time as well, Susannah knowing about it.

*

From 'The Rise of Prince'

*

"Prince had developed feelings for Susannah Melvoin, who put her relationship on hold and moved to Minnesota to be with him. Her hopes of being his only love interest were quickly dashed, as he had also started a significant romance with Sheila Escovedo. For both Sheila and Susannah, two strangers now linked by their pursuit of the same man, what at first seemed like a storybook romance with a powerful pop star became tumultuous and painful."

*

I wonder why I never hear you talk about Sheila E in this time period with Susannah? You always make certain to leave her out the fray…

VioletCrush said:

*

Regarding Denise's re-publishing of her book, it was in 2014. and here is the information from her Gofundme page:

*

"I wish to republish my autobiography, "BLAME IT ON VANITY. My book will help fund my ongoing bills for the 23 surgeries i have had over the many years including my continued dialysis 3 x's a week. I have been saved in Jesus over 23 years now and entirely blessed to be alive.I know my testimony has saved so many people from Unforgivenes, Abuse and being abused, drug addiction, hollywood and the games thereof, lusts of the flesh and especially from Suicide. For this is am raising funds for my lifes work in the ministry my book and as i said before my ongoing bills. To surmise my story

She was formerly known as the singer song-writer and actress Vanity, lead to the group Vanity-six and mentored by the musician Prince. Nevertheless, in 1992, she was born again and raised from the dead by the power of
God our Lord Jesus Christ, and He calls her by her birth name, Denise."Prior to finding my Lord and Savior I lived in the bottomless pit of Hollywood's deception. Lust, drugs Rock n Roll....i was living in the depths of iniquity versed with carnality and suicidal thoughts of leaving this world...
"Sinking down into deep depression I camouflaged my pain with even more makeup and a fake smile." "My shocking testimony of 250 high blood pressure over 190, heart attack,
stroke, kidney failure, blood clots to the brain and blindness complete as well as deafness left me with only three days to live."
"With the devil breathing down my neck, trying desperately
to snatch and strangle me for hell, I repented."
"Yes one sweet day my Jesus reached down with his long
extended love and pulled my wretched body up from the darkness. Him only do I worship with a tremendous blast of fiery passion. I live, move, breath, love and have my being in Jesus The Christ. Enslaved to His truth"...I am Denise! no longer Vanity for the name means WORTHLESSNES...we are not worthless."

*

One thing that is clear here is that Denise went through many struggles throughout her too-short life here, but she most definitely found clarity and love within her religious community, her work as an Evangelist, and her faith. May she Rest In Peace.

*

In 1992, Denise began her journey in her Christian faith. It was not the year she ended up in the hospital on her deathbed. She has said this over and over in many of her interviews. I also have an interview she'd done in 1992 where she detailed her initial story of finding the Lord on the 700 Club - distinct from her later revelation. I have it. This is not the right thread to post it, but Let me know if you'd like to see it. Denise did not just become a Christian because she was dying as you implied.

[Edited 9/16/18 8:40am]

luvgirl said:

Violetcrush Said: "Wow, you are really romanticizing Prince's feelings here. How does "I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" and "nobody could talk like her" translate into Vanity being the love of his life?? I would say you are embellishing here quite a bit and projecting your own ideas onto the words. I think the "muse" for Prince with his women was depicted in how he portrayed them as performers, and with Vanity, it was sex. Her look, the songs, and the way she performed was all about sex. He also wanted to name her "Va-geena"

*

Reply: You're twisting again. Didn't you imply that Vanity had nothing to offer Prince apart from her beauty? You basically called her dumb and uninteresting. I opinioned otherwise, showcasing her attributes and some of Prince's comments about those facets. I said nothing about her being the love of Prince's life here… I'm the romanticizer? You are the queen of romanticizing and embellishing Prince's relationship with Susannah since the short timespan you've been here. I've never seen anything like it. Your tactics are disturbing because you try to pit her up against other women (Mostly Vanity or Mayte…) Dragging them through the mud as much as possible. It's like some kind of competition to you that you must prove on the Org at all cost (and have it stick) that Susannah was the muse behind, EVERY. SINGLE. SONG, and the love of Prince's life. You are on a mission!

*

VioletCrush Said: No, not "made up BS" at all. I did read that Brenda was the one slated to keep the group in control. Remember, Brenda and Susan were there well before Vanity entered the scene. Jamie Schoop had been slotted to be the third girl, as I'm sure you know, and Prince had come up with the name "The Hookers" for them. Prince changed course when he met Vanity at the awards show in early '82. I believe Vanity stated she was living in NY at that time, and Prince convinced her to move to MN. She arrived and found that Prince and Susan were together, and was furious. It has also been said that Brenda and Vanity clashed quite a bit, which I'm sure had to do with her being close with Susan. This has all been written in Biographies and stated in interviews. Just because Vanity was the focal point of the group from a performance perspective doesn't mean she handled everything behind the scenes. Prince also had Susan, Vanity, and Jill in rotation on an intimate level for awhile until Susan stepped out of the mix. This has also been documented.

*

Reply: I know exactly what you read, you read one book that stated that Brenda helped Vanity with her vocals and you saw an interview where Brenda took the lead in the conversation, and you took that to the MOUNTAINS… What does Prince having Jill and Susan on rotation on an intimate level have to do with my comment about you twisting the facts about Brenda's position in the group?? You do know that Prince had a different rotation going on with Susannah, don't you? Sheila E being a very prominent part of that rotation and a major love interest in his life at that time as well, Susannah knowing about it.

*

From 'The Rise of Prince'

*

"Prince had developed feelings for Susannah Melvoin, who put her relationship on hold and moved to Minnesota to be with him. Her hopes of being his only love interest were quickly dashed, as he had also started a significant romance with Sheila Escovedo. For both Sheila and Susannah, two strangers now linked by their pursuit of the same man, what at first seemed like a storybook romance with a powerful pop star became tumultuous and painful."

*

I wonder why I never hear you talk about Sheila E in this time period with Susannah? You always make certain to leave her out the fray…

violetcrush said:

AGAIN...you are putting words into my comments that were never there. PeteSilas, as you can see from the post below, stated that many of the girls were "dumb", however, my response was that the YOUNG ones were gullible and naive, and NOT dumb. Please carefully read over the posts before you accuse me of certain statements. Also, Vanity was not one of the "young" ones, so she was not even factored into that part of the conversation.

PeteSilas said:

it may have been sussanah that someone said, i just always assumed it was mayte, only prince and those close to him would know for sure, i think it's a bit too coincidental NOT to be mayte though. And ya, prince tended to write songs like that which painted him a the victim when he's a difficult guy to deal with for anyone and he did plenty of cheating himself I'm sure. the thing i don't get, said it again and agian, sorry to beat a dead horse but how do you fall in love with dum dum's?

*

My response to Pete: Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that.

*

Remember too, this was the age before cell phones, email, etc. so it was much easier to have liaisons without being caught. He was always traveling too, which made things easier. Or, he could have women brought to him when he wanted, a la Devin DeVasquez...

*

n.

*

Regarding Sheila E - If you listen to Susannah's interview with Toure, she stated that she and Prince became "heavy" during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Sheila came into the mix in early '84, so this would make sense. In Alan Light's book she also stated about their relationship, "we lost touch for about a year when he was busy being a big rock star, petulant and needy, and getting any girl that he wanted". So, it is well documented that as early as spring/summer of '84 they were off and on with their relationship. I don't really think you can compare Sheila and Susannah with regard to the relationship with Prince. Regardless of Prince and Sheila getting together at various times, the intensity of Prince's feelings for Susannah are pretty clear in the music. Can you give me the love songs that he wrote for Sheila? Or the diamond ring he gave her? If you can match the intensity of these songs - Empty Room, Wally, Forever In My Life, Adore, and If I Was Your Girlfriend then I'll concede your point.

*

Regarding Brenda with Vanity - we can agree to disagree on this one. Brenda had been in the camp for a long time, as her husband had already been working with Prince. She knew the business, and understood the music side much more than Vanity did. Vanity has even stated she did not think she had a good voice coming in to the camp, and she did not have plans to be a singer. She wanted to be an actress, and she had already done some B movies prior to joining the Prince camp. Prince convinced her to do it. I have no doubt that Brenda was overseeing things in that crew.

*

With regard to Mayte - I stand by my thoughts and opinions on this. Other than decent belly dancing skills, I don't think she was/is very talented with regard to singing/performing. She was mainly "eye candy" for the audience during the 90's, and I think the videos of those shows speak for themselves. I also think Prince married her because she was pregnant with his baby. However, I have also said that he was no doubt very excited to be a Father, and he was putting an effort to make that work. I have also said that I think her parents were to blame for placing her in that environment at such a young age. I have absolutely nothing against Mayte at all. These are just my thoughts and opinions, as many here have. Hey, if you really want to go after someone about slamming Mayte, you should read the comment by 42Kristen (I think?) on this thread. Ouch!!

luvgirl said:

VioletCrush said:

*

Regarding Denise's re-publishing of her book, it was in 2014. and here is the information from her Gofundme page:

*

"I wish to republish my autobiography, "BLAME IT ON VANITY. My book will help fund my ongoing bills for the 23 surgeries i have had over the many years including my continued dialysis 3 x's a week. I have been saved in Jesus over 23 years now and entirely blessed to be alive.I know my testimony has saved so many people from Unforgivenes, Abuse and being abused, drug addiction, hollywood and the games thereof, lusts of the flesh and especially from Suicide. For this is am raising funds for my lifes work in the ministry my book and as i said before my ongoing bills. To surmise my story

She was formerly known as the singer song-writer and actress Vanity, lead to the group Vanity-six and mentored by the musician Prince. Nevertheless, in 1992, she was born again and raised from the dead by the power of
God our Lord Jesus Christ, and He calls her by her birth name, Denise."Prior to finding my Lord and Savior I lived in the bottomless pit of Hollywood's deception. Lust, drugs Rock n Roll....i was living in the depths of iniquity versed with carnality and suicidal thoughts of leaving this world...
"Sinking down into deep depression I camouflaged my pain with even more makeup and a fake smile." "My shocking testimony of 250 high blood pressure over 190, heart attack,
stroke, kidney failure, blood clots to the brain and blindness complete as well as deafness left me with only three days to live."
"With the devil breathing down my neck, trying desperately
to snatch and strangle me for hell, I repented."
"Yes one sweet day my Jesus reached down with his long
extended love and pulled my wretched body up from the darkness. Him only do I worship with a tremendous blast of fiery passion. I live, move, breath, love and have my being in Jesus The Christ. Enslaved to His truth"...I am Denise! no longer Vanity for the name means WORTHLESSNES...we are not worthless."

*

One thing that is clear here is that Denise went through many struggles throughout her too-short life here, but she most definitely found clarity and love within her religious community, her work as an Evangelist, and her faith. May she Rest In Peace.

*

In 1992, Denise began her journey in her Christian faith. It was not the year she ended up in the hospital on her deathbed. She has said this over and over in many of her interviews. I also have an interview she'd done in 1992 where she detailed her initial story of finding the Lord on the 700 Club - distinct from her later revelation. I have it. This is not the right thread to post it, but Let me know if you'd like to see it. Denise did not just become a Christian because she was dying as you implied.

[Edited 9/16/18 8:40am]

I agree with what you are saying. I have seen the 700 club interview on YT, and also heard the interview where she said "everybody thinks I became an Evangelist when I was on my deathbed, but that's not true". There is also a YT video of an interview she did in 1992 on one of the celebrity news shows to promote her film or TV show guest spot that she was doing at the time where she declared she was no longer Vanity. They had shots of her reading her bible in a park. However, in another interview, she did state that she had found Jesus, but wasn't completely ready to be "saved", because she had one relapse before fully commiting herself to the Lord...or something along those lines. My general point was that regardless of the exact day or year that she decided to go toward religion, the excessive drug use is what put her in the hospital, and it's clear that after that point she never looked back with regard to her "Hollywood" lifestyle.

SkipperLove said:

I agree. We don't know what he did or didn't do where Vanity was concerned. We also don't know if he even knew how to contact her or visa versa. He gave money to Rosie Gaines before he died (People commenting on Sheila E's facebook page in 2014/2015 snarkily assumed that he wasn't helping out..Sheila corrected them.)

violetcrush said:

We don't know that for sure. He may very well have offered her help between 2014-2016. We don't know for sure. She also may have refused money from him.

*

Yes, he may have had some guilt, but Vanity made her own choices with regard to drugs. Prince did not force her in that direction. No doubt he was reaching out to many people from his past who had been close to him though. I think he was doing that as far back as a couple of years before he passed.

[Edited 9/16/18 1:27am]

He did a lot of charity work, as we now know, for many organizations. People were criticizing him for not participating in Sheila E's Elevate Hope Foundation charity event back in 2003, but he is listed on the site as a founding donor, so he gave a sizeable contribution. Van Jones has stated that he would perform in certain cities, and then send an anonymous check to a group or community in need in that city. They did a lot of charity work together. Also amazing to find out much later that during the height of his fame - the PR tour - he was doing charity performances in several places.

*

I also love the story from Alan Light's book, about the We Are The World recording event in 1985 - all the musicians complaining that Prince was a no-show while eating their caviar and drinking champagne, meanwhile Prince is staying up all night in a mobile recording truck to record "For The Tears In Your Eyes" for the album.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

LaurenceNoonan said: Nothing, but it was brought up by a poster with regard to the discussion of the subjects of his songs. Then it took off on a diversion of its own about the woman Mi-Ling, who came out with her story of dating Prince back in the late 70's and being the inspiration for the song.

mi ling sounded kinda nutty but most of her interview rang true really. she mentioned she was dating mike weaver, the boxer and had a pic of him on her wall and that's where the line "jockey's who were here before me" and she even mentioned the details of Mike's career which nearly no woman would know as women are the followers of the sport, I know all the details because I'm a boxing nut, but for her to know them, it rang true. she also said that his dancing was spastic like, of course we could see that without her saying it on american bandstand, but just little details like that rang true. whether the song was for her or not? that part, i just don't know. We should take a vote,cast your vote eye love you but i don't trust you anymore mine goes to mayte with a little reservation.

Yes, I believe Mi-Ling here. Way too many details for it to be a fabrication. I think, if nothing else, part of the song could have been inspired by her. Based on her description of her life back then, it sounds as though she ran with a "fast" crowd.

*

If the song ILUBIDTU is really inspired by Mayte, it is amazing to me, because it has become pretty common knowledge that Prince began pursuing Manuela while they were still together. This would support the idea that he always saw himself as the victim regardless of his own actions in the relationhsip.

Sydney said:

An absolutely stunning Prince ballad - great lyrics and sentiment.

Yes, it is a beautiful song. Very intense and poignant about the ending of a relationship.

PeteSilas said:

CatB said:

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.

why would they ask you to be on a podcast, were you in the camp? As far as all these women, i've often quoted what has been said about Duke Ellington "all of them made the fatal mistake of thinking they were the ONE, there was no such animal. The ONE was music" True for any of us dedicated musicians, I saw a Ray Parker seminar on youtube, he said he told his wife early on to "never try to compete with this" and he patted his guitar. That doesn't go down to well with women but that's the way it is for those of us who chose music as our lives.

Hey Pete....crickets on a response to that question

SkipperLove said:

Professional control and personal control are not always the same thing. And maybe the control shifted back and forth on the personal level. The women in his life did influence him..Mayte's animal activism and Egyptian connections seem to pre-date Prince's, Vanity's acting pursuits did pre-date Prince's, hell, even Andy Allo's afro pre-dated Prince's later embrace of his natural hair..also, she is the one who convinced him to do the piano and microphone tour. Wendy and Lisa's musical interests sometimes influenced him. People have described Prince as a sponge.

violetcrush said:

And here we go with your generalizations AGAIN regarding just about everything. It's not about winning any kind of argument. It's about opinions, thoughts, and also referencing reliable and more reputable sources in relation to those opinions and thoughts.

*

I'm not arguing that you watched a video of her stating she and Prince were "leaders". However, I happened to listen to an interview where she stated that Prince controlled everything, and if she didn't wear the clothes and do what he wanted her to do, she would not get paid. She was not bashing Prince, just stating the facts. She said it was her choice to go down that road - I believe she stated at that time she had "door #1, door #2 or door #3, and she chose door #...." However, she made it clear that she was not the one making those decisions.

*

Okay, right. You were asked to speak on a Podcast....which one?? Unless you are actually Cat Glover or Cat Dyson, I remain skeptical of your connection to Prince. Even in your few private Org notes to me - you detailed your personal life, but did not give any type of evidence as to your time with Prince. Until then, you are an anonymous fan like the rest of us.

[Edited 9/15/18 23:52pm]

Yes, no doubt Prince took inspiration from some of these women, and was influenced by them - some definitely more than others. However, with regard to the animal activism and becoming a vegetarian - I believe he was most likely influenced by Kim Basinger on that, which pre-dates Mayte. She was always a PITA supporter, and also a vegetarian. I'm sure Mayte inspired the Egyptian themes though, as that started on the D&P tour. Regarding the acting, Gayle Chapman stated how she walked into the room in Prince's house one day and found him filming a girl acting out a persona, and I also believe he may have started the idea for The Second Coming before Vanity joined the camp. He also used to go to the movies when he was young - he talks about it in the song "The Good Life". Andy may have inspired him to go back to his natural style. Although, he was wearing the 'fro long before she was born His health may have also triggered him to stop doing the straightening treatments.

*

But no doubt the women in his life inspired or influenced him in various ways.

[Edited 9/16/18 13:07pm]

violetcrush said:

I agree and Maria Montessori says the last phase of childhood I can’t recall the exact name of the stage but It is 19-23 It is a deep mentor period of childhood
Not at all when we should be called adults but adults in training.