PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Nah, I doubt that. I don't believe he gave Vanity an engagement ring when they were together. Also, I think it's highly unlikely that her "flower" wasn't already "picked" prior to meeting him. She was 22 when they met.

*

He did give an engagement ring to Susannah Melvoin in 1985 though. He also recorded "Go", Empty Room, and Sexual Suicide in the same session after a big fight with her, so my guess is that he may have found out that she had been with someone else at that time. They were "off and on" quite a bit during their relationship. The lyrics to Go describe the scenario in ILYBIDTY - "You promised me baby, that you would never cheat, but you did it anyway, and now you want to leave me"....

it may have been sussanah that someone said, i just always assumed it was mayte, only prince and those close to him would know for sure, i think it's a bit too coincidental NOT to be mayte though. And ya, prince tended to write songs like that which painted him a the victim when he's a difficult guy to deal with for anyone and he did plenty of cheating himself I'm sure. the thing i don't get, said it again and agian, sorry to beat a dead horse but how do you fall in love with dum dum's?

Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that.

*

Remember too, this was the age before cell phones, email, etc. so it was much easier to have liaisons without being caught. He was always traveling too, which made things easier. Or, he could have women brought to him when he wanted, a la Devin DeVasquez...

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Oh interesting. Could be. Wondering if that interview is listed on princevault. They have most of his print interviews posted. I know during the last P&M show, when he did the song, he sang "I remember meeting you here back in the good old days - the 80's". So, seems he was reflecting on one of his relationships back then. The song talks about the girl having been given a ring, so that would've been Susannah at that time. I do think it would be a bit strange that he would write a song coming from one of his parents perspectives. He usually wrote about himself with regard to relationships with women.

he also said little red corvette was written for vanity, that one black lady with a chinese name said it was for her. I don't know if it was for vanity, the song is a one night stand kind of song and doesn't reflect their relationship at all. He had so many women...

No, I don't think he said it was inspired by Vanity. I think he just dedicated it to her at his concert after she passed. I believe the woman - Mai Ling?? I think is her name. Jerome Benton and some of the MPLS boys gave a shout-out to her on one of their FB videos.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

it may have been sussanah that someone said, i just always assumed it was mayte, only prince and those close to him would know for sure, i think it's a bit too coincidental NOT to be mayte though. And ya, prince tended to write songs like that which painted him a the victim when he's a difficult guy to deal with for anyone and he did plenty of cheating himself I'm sure. the thing i don't get, said it again and agian, sorry to beat a dead horse but how do you fall in love with dum dum's?

Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that.

*

Remember too, this was the age before cell phones, email, etc. so it was much easier to have liaisons without being caught. He was always traveling too, which made things easier. Or, he could have women brought to him when he wanted, a la Devin DeVasquez...

several of them were sharp, jill, sussanah,troy but the ones he fell the hardest for from my vantage point, were the dummies. All I can say is I don't get it. Even smart couples fight all the goddamned time, over stupid shit! just imagine how much stupider it gets when they actually are fucking stupid? like arguing with a 10 year old.

SkipperLove said:

Or maybe trust is not just about who cheated. In his position, it would be hard to trust most folks. He didn't help by being untrustworthy himself of course. But I always suspected that Prince himself had trust issues, wondered if people loved him for who he was or what he could get for them. Mayte, I don't know, but there were rumors of a Spanish dancer that she didn't say anything about. But let's say she was faithful--she also was a ambitious young dancer whose mother was a stage mom(her statement not mine). It had to cross his mind occassionally that he was being used. Don't get me wrong --he was insecure enough to believe that he couldn't just date an equal of a different field, that he had to date someone to which he could offer the world and a career..but its a catch 22. Maybe that (along with her age) is why the courtship took so long. He wanted to see if he could trust her to stick around even after the accolades for her talents came her way. Prince needed to date outside his little musical circle obviously. Maybe that song was his reaction to her statement about not trusting him..maybe its him saying you don't trust me due to unfaithfulness but I don't trust you either due to wondering where your heart is. We only know her side; but he certainly has his. Its funny but in the Montreux Jazz festival in 2009 (show 2) , he sang the line "I know you love me baby, but you don't trust me and you don't love me not much anymore". Freudian slip or maybe this trust thing is more complicated than we thought.

andykeen said:

To my knowledge Prince was the unfaithful one in his relationship to Mayte. Therefore, this song doesn’t give much insight apart from him acknowledging and singing this in the perspective of what he did to mayte?

[Edited 9/8/18 10:45am]

I heard that change of lyric in Montreux as well, but by that time, he could have been referring to any number of his relationships. Considering that he allegedly started a relationship with Manuela while he was still with Mayte I would say that he would be the one on the receiving end of those lyrics. Although, Mayte was living in Spain and spending most of her time alone, so it would not have been surprising if she "hooked up" with a Spanish dancer. Can't really blame her at all.

*

I think it is very rare that a relationship/marriage works with such an extreme age difference. She was 16 and he was 32 when they met. That is just CRAZY to me. She had to have seen him as more of a "father figure" or "Uncle" when she first arrived at PP. In a televised interview, when asked about being attracted to him when she started working with him, she stated something to the effect of, "ewwwww, no way, not at all!" She always claims that her attraction/feelings "evolved" over time. That makes no sense to me. As she got older, so did he.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Some of the young ones were not the brightest - I would say very gullible and naive more so than "dumb" - just not experienced. Susannah wasn't dumb though. She knew what he was doing, which I think is why they were off and on a lot during their time together. Vanity knew, of course, what he was doing, because Susan and Jill were always there. Some, like Jill, didn't mind that he was juggling several women. I have no doubt that Susannah was doing her own thing here and there too - hence the many songs about his frustration with that.

*

Remember too, this was the age before cell phones, email, etc. so it was much easier to have liaisons without being caught. He was always traveling too, which made things easier. Or, he could have women brought to him when he wanted, a la Devin DeVasquez...

several of them were sharp, jill, sussanah,troy but the ones he fell the hardest for from my vantage point, were the dummies. All I can say is I don't get it. Even smart couples fight all the goddamned time, over stupid shit! just imagine how much stupider it gets when they actually are fucking stupid? like arguing with a 10 year old.

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

several of them were sharp, jill, sussanah,troy but the ones he fell the hardest for from my vantage point, were the dummies. All I can say is I don't get it. Even smart couples fight all the goddamned time, over stupid shit! just imagine how much stupider it gets when they actually are fucking stupid? like arguing with a 10 year old.

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

You may be on to something. Maybe, it was children he wanted?

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Nah, I doubt that. I don't believe he gave Vanity an engagement ring when they were together. Also, I think it's highly unlikely that her "flower" wasn't already "picked" prior to meeting him. She was 22 when they met.

*

He did give an engagement ring to Susannah Melvoin in 1985 though. He also recorded "Go", Empty Room, and Sexual Suicide in the same session after a big fight with her, so my guess is that he may have found out that she had been with someone else at that time. They were "off and on" quite a bit during their relationship. The lyrics to Go describe the scenario in ILYBIDTY - "You promised me baby, that you would never cheat, but you did it anyway, and now you want to leave me"....

Here's Sexual Suicide:

*

Baby, if you only knew
All the love, want a love that's deep in my heart
Ooh baby, bein' here with you
Wouldn't be nothin' could tear us apart
Alright, uh, every night
Cool surrender, lost in your arms
You, you'll be surprised
Doin' it in the cuffs, sound your alarm
Baby, gonna take a walk
Think I'm gonna take a sexual suicide

No body like my body, baby
Ain't no ride like my ride
Super skin in my car, baby
If you're drivin' me, then maybe
Sexual suicide

Ain't it a shame
That you won't play the game
Got to much pride
You, you make your bed
But you got to see the sexual, sexual suicide
Suicide, sexual, sexual suicide

Seems it was tracked in 1985 in the warehouse in Eden Prairie. Susannah? Didn't Prince cheat once or twice?

[Edited 9/14/18 20:59pm]

[Edited 9/14/18 21:04pm]

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

several of them were sharp, jill, sussanah,troy but the ones he fell the hardest for from my vantage point, were the dummies. All I can say is I don't get it. Even smart couples fight all the goddamned time, over stupid shit! just imagine how much stupider it gets when they actually are fucking stupid? like arguing with a 10 year old.

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

i'd never heard the thing with mayte turning around like that. could be, she was one of many muses, that's all I know about the pre marriage and I doubt if that changed with marriage. the man loved women, or rather, loved the ego trip that came along with getting women (no different as it is with many men, so, it's not like Prince was unusual). It just seems that Vanity was a heartache for him and mayte brought him a lot of pain, neither one was too bright, both seemed to have sweet dispositions.

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

You may be on to something. Maybe, it was children he wanted?

Yes, no doubt. I think it is so very sad, because he really wanted kids of his own. I think he was excited at the thought of being a Father. It makes sense, because he was 36 by then. I read that he had set up a large play room for the baby as a surprise for Mayte, which is so sweet. I believe it was shown on the Oprah interview - they were sitting in that playroom at PP. So incredibly awful that he had to promote that album and do that interview so soon after the baby's death.

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

Here's Sexual Suicide:

*

Baby, if you only knew
All the love, want a love that's deep in my heart
Ooh baby, bein' here with you
Wouldn't be nothin' could tear us apart
Alright, uh, every night
Cool surrender, lost in your arms
You, you'll be surprised
Doin' it in the cuffs, sound your alarm
Baby, gonna take a walk
Think I'm gonna take a sexual suicide

No body like my body, baby
Ain't no ride like my ride
Super skin in my car, baby
If you're drivin' me, then maybe
Sexual suicide

Ain't it a shame
That you won't play the game
Got to much pride
You, you make your bed
But you got to see the sexual, sexual suicide
Suicide, sexual, sexual suicide

Seems it was tracked in 1985 in the warehouse in Eden Prairie. Susannah? Didn't Prince cheat once or twice?

[Edited 9/14/18 20:59pm]

[Edited 9/14/18 21:04pm]

Oh, I think he cheated quite a bit, and she most likely found out about at least some of them. My guess is that during these sessions - the recording of Empty Room, Go, Sexual Suicide, etc.., she probably told him she had had enough, and based on the lyrics, he had gotten wind of her seeing someone else. Seems his "no cheating" mindset only applied to the woman and not him. When Susannah discussed Empty Room during her interview with Toure she said they had a "tift" of some sort, and then he called the entire band in to the warehouse on Bobby Z's wedding day to record Empty Room. I'm guessing their little "tift" was more like one of their "breakups" of sorts, and him finding out that she may have been with someone else. Then he flew her to NY and bought her a 6 carat diamond ring, flew to Paris, and asked her to marry him. I guess that's one way of keeping her from seeing someone else

*

Some of the lyrics to the song Go:

*

You promised me baby that you would never cheat,

But you did it anyway, and now you want to leave me

*

I think Anotherloverholeinyohead was for her as well. She stated she was pulling away from him by early '86, which is when the song was recorded.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

i'd never heard the thing with mayte turning around like that. could be, she was one of many muses, that's all I know about the pre marriage and I doubt if that changed with marriage. the man loved women, or rather, loved the ego trip that came along with getting women (no different as it is with many men, so, it's not like Prince was unusual). It just seems that Vanity was a heartache for him and mayte brought him a lot of pain, neither one was too bright, both seemed to have sweet dispositions.

Right, Pete. I don't think Vanity challenged him intellectually. She was beautiful no doubt, but physical beauty does not sustain a long term relationship, especially with someone like Prince, who was like a "kid in a candy store" when it came to attractive women. She was beautiful, but so are many other women. She also had that "I'm so hot, and I know it - I can get anyone" attitude too, which I think did not appeal to him. Alan Leeds was quoted as saying when he entered the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew their relationship was through.

*

Mayte - very young, naive, and not the brightest. I think the way he had her performing on stage depicts that relationship pretty well. It was mainly stripper dancing without being naked. He was running around with many women during that time as well. His mindset in '95 was far from marriage. The early configurations of Emancipation show that. The tracks were about freedom and wanting someone back. The songs about marriage/baby were recorded early '96, most likely after the pregnancy was confirmed.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

he also said little red corvette was written for vanity, that one black lady with a chinese name said it was for her. I don't know if it was for vanity, the song is a one night stand kind of song and doesn't reflect their relationship at all. He had so many women...

No, I don't think he said it was inspired by Vanity. I think he just dedicated it to her at his concert after she passed. I believe the woman - Mai Ling?? I think is her name. Jerome Benton and some of the MPLS boys gave a shout-out to her on one of their FB videos.

The song screams Vanity and Mi-Ling doesn't have many supporters for her claim anymore. People are starting to laugh at her. After Prince's passing she came to many people on FB - me too - wanting them to support her page in which she posted that one podcast interview in which she promotes herself and the story. Back then she still told people it was someone else (IIRC it was TC Ellis) who told her that the song was about her. Many were like, Why would he tell her that? Why not Prince?

As she got a little following from people she suddenly started calling herself M1 and said Mayte and Manuela are M2 and M3. She also posted picture collages of her and Mayte, claiming she looks exactly like her. And she said Sexy Dancer is also about her. And then some people urged her o write a book.

What we know from Prince himself is that he wrote LRC in Lisa's little red car and that the lyrics came in between catnaps.

I watched an interview with Vanity during the Vanity 6 period when she was not being"Vanity".

She was somewhat quiet and articulate with a beautiful speaking voice, somewhat like Susannah's.

As I recall, she was taking a kind of motherly role towards Susan.

I found her quite thoughtful and intelligent. I think there was more to her than we saw. I don't think Prince would have been as connected to her through the years if she had been a bimbo.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

several of them were sharp, jill, sussanah,troy but the ones he fell the hardest for from my vantage point, were the dummies. All I can say is I don't get it. Even smart couples fight all the goddamned time, over stupid shit! just imagine how much stupider it gets when they actually are fucking stupid? like arguing with a 10 year old.

I think you're making an assumption when you say he "fell hardest for' the young or "dumb" ones. Remember, his life and feelings were in his lyrics. Many of his strongest love songs were inspired by Susannah. I think he married Mayte because she got pregnant. That is just my thought/opinion. In a 1995 interview with a London journalist he was asked if he wanted to settle down and get married. His answer was a resounding NO. He said he was in no way thinking about marriage or settling down anytime in the near future. Then all of a sudden he's planned and had a wedding in a two week period?? Makes no sense at all.

Yep. At the time he said marriage and kids was the last thing on his mind. He had always wanted a big wedding in Paris and had made actual plans for it but when he eventually did get married he had to rush things and do a last minute wedding. Even the flower girls were partially kids he didn't even know but who were "cast". So things had to be real quick and most of us know why.

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

No, I don't think he said it was inspired by Vanity. I think he just dedicated it to her at his concert after she passed. I believe the woman - Mai Ling?? I think is her name. Jerome Benton and some of the MPLS boys gave a shout-out to her on one of their FB videos.

The song screams Vanity and Mi-Ling doesn't have many supporters for her claim anymore. People are starting to laugh at her. After Prince's passing she came to many people on FB - me too - wanting them to support her page in which she posted that one podcast interview in which she promotes herself and the story. Back then she still told people it was someone else (IIRC it was TC Ellis) who told her that the song was about her. Many were like, Why would he tell her that? Why not Prince?

As she got a little following from people she suddenly started calling herself M1 and said Mayte and Manuela are M2 and M3. She also posted picture collages of her and Mayte, claiming she looks exactly like her. And she said Sexy Dancer is also about her. And then some people urged her o write a book.

What we know from Prince himself is that he wrote LRC in Lisa's little red car and that the lyrics came in between catnaps.

No, Lisa did not have a "little red car". She had a vintage salmon colored Mercury Cougar that she nicknamed "Betty Flounder". She stated that Prince used to borrow the car to listen to his tapes, because it had a state of the art sound system. She stated that one night he fell asleep while listening to music in the car, and came up with the lyrics for LRC. The song inspiration has nothing to do with Lisa's car, other than he thought of the lyrics to the song while he was using the car. The LRC in the song is clearly a metaphor for the girl's "parts" and also her sexual appetite.

*

Prince rarely, if ever, told women directly that songs were inspired by, or written for them. So, it is not that unbelievable that another person within his camp would talk to her about it. I saw the video that Jerome Benton posted - and I believe he was with his brother Terry - not long after her podcast interview where they both acknowledged her as the subject of the song.

*

Regarding Sexy Dancer - she stated in her interview that the boys used to call her "Fancy Dancer'. It is certainly believable that Prince took that name and created the more racey title for his song. It makes sense.

*

No reason to doubt her story, especially when prominent guys from MPLS early days have acknowledged that she was there.

peggyon said:

I watched an interview with Vanity during the Vanity 6 period when she was not being"Vanity".

She was somewhat quiet and articulate with a beautiful speaking voice, somewhat like Susannah's.

As I recall, she was taking a kind of motherly role towards Susan.

I found her quite thoughtful and intelligent. I think there was more to her than we saw. I don't think Prince would have been as connected to her through the years if she had been a bimbo.

Right, I would not classify her as a "bimbo" at all, but I don't consider her to be an intellectual type either. I think she was smart in using her physical attributes to gain success, however, I also think this, and probably a troubled childhood are what led to her drug addiction. I have seen a few interviews where she was coherent and thoughtful, but I've also seen many others where she was scattered and silly. I have also read that she was sweet to Susan - and to some degree Jill after awhile. Susan ended her intimate relationship with Prince, and became friends with Vanity.

*

I think what attracted Prince to Susannah the most was her more humble nature, intellect, humor, and her knowledge of music and the business. Unlike Vanity, was taught the business by Prince, however, Susannah taught him some things and/or they were on more of an equal playing field when it came to musical knowledge. My impression is that they had more in common in that way, and deeper conversations. I think she kept him mentally interested. Also, there was the bond with Wendy and Lisa. Lots of factors in the equation.

[Edited 9/15/18 7:57am]

violetcrush said:

I think it is very rare that a relationship/marriage works with such an extreme age difference. She was 16 and he was 32 when they met. That is just CRAZY to me. She had to have seen him as more of a "father figure" or "Uncle" when she first arrived at PP. In a televised interview, when asked about being attracted to him when she started working with him, she stated something to the effect of, "ewwwww, no way, not at all!" She always claims that her attraction/feelings "evolved" over time. That makes no sense to me. As she got older, so did he.

She was older than 16 at the time but same difference - she was young. However, she was not like others her age. She already had a career, seens places and knew about business. She was trained by her mama, also how to play demure.

I always say there is some psychology at work when it comes to Prince, that you do not see him as an uncle or father. Maybe some did. He could be very "daddy", yes. But his height and his own "girly" side made the difference to thoughts you would usually apply to "young girl - much older man". His height let you be on eye level with him and that's why you didn't feel this barrier.

What's more, mostly you didn't think about his age, simply because he didn't. To me he had always been "my brother". He seemed much younger and had other interests than the average guy. He had been an abandoned child and still carried that with him and he created his own universe and "magic" and had something that felt like HOME.

A friend and I were always joking, Imagine P coming home from a job in a bank or whatever, flopping himself on the couch, unzip his pants and crack open a can of beer. Just didn't happen. It was easier to imagine him as a fairy or something.

So you just couldn't look at him like at the average guy.

I also doubt that their feelings for each other really changed. He had that fairytale created to the outside world, yes. He just had to believe in this for various reasons. But as someone else said before - you don't have somebody on your payroll for years and then suddenly realize they are your soulmate or "the One".

violetcrush said:

No, Lisa did not have a "little red car". She had a vintage salmon colored Mercury Cougar that she nicknamed "Betty Flounder". She stated that Prince used to borrow the car to listen to his tapes, because it had a state of the art sound system. She stated that one night he fell asleep while listening to music in the car, and came up with the lyrics for LRC. The song inspiration has nothing to do with Lisa's car, other than he thought of the lyrics to the song while he was using the car. The LRC in the song is clearly a metaphor for the girl's "parts" and also her sexual appetite.

I said that it is what we know from Prince. Others may have their versions.

And I know what the song is about, that's why it screams Vanity.

peggyon said:

I watched an interview with Vanity during the Vanity 6 period when she was not being"Vanity".

She was somewhat quiet and articulate with a beautiful speaking voice, somewhat like Susannah's.

As I recall, she was taking a kind of motherly role towards Susan.

I found her quite thoughtful and intelligent. I think there was more to her than we saw. I don't think Prince would have been as connected to her through the years if she had been a bimbo.

Yes. And she was also a motherly figure for him. She was the only woman to pick out his clothes, spoon-feed him when he refused to eat and she said they were both leaders.
She was sharp, even when "under the influence".

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

I watched an interview with Vanity during the Vanity 6 period when she was not being"Vanity".

She was somewhat quiet and articulate with a beautiful speaking voice, somewhat like Susannah's.

As I recall, she was taking a kind of motherly role towards Susan.

I found her quite thoughtful and intelligent. I think there was more to her than we saw. I don't think Prince would have been as connected to her through the years if she had been a bimbo.

Right, I would not classify her as a "bimbo" at all, but I don't consider her to be an intellectual type either. I think she was smart in using her physical attributes to gain success, however, I also think this, and probably a troubled childhood are what led to her drug addiction. I have seen a few interviews where she was coherent and thoughtful, but I've also seen many others where she was scattered and silly. I have also read that she was sweet to Susan - and to some degree Jill after awhile. Susan ended her intimate relationship with Prince, and became friends with Vanity.

*

I think what attracted Prince to Susannah the most was her more humble nature, intellect, humor, and her knowledge of music and the business. Unlike Vanity, who was taught the business by Prince, Susannah taught him some things and/or they were on more of an equal playing field when it came to musical knowledge. My impression is that they had more in common in that way, and deeper conversations. I think she kept him mentally interested. Also, there was the bond with Wendy and Lisa. Lots of factors in the equation.

Vanity had a more troubled past and was gorgeous/sexy so her default was to play sexy Vanity...likely came easily to her. She was more emotionally fragile and of course, drugs were an issue which were in large part contributing to her "scattered/silly" persona.

Vanity was not exposed to culture the way Susannah was, though, I think she had an emotional depth and strength of character that appealed to P. I feel he looked up to her spiritually. She also spoke very intelligently during the interview I referred to. We don't know if she was an intellectual seeker as well as a spiritual one.

I wonder if he would have been as upset if he learned about the death of Susannah v Vanity?

I don't think so.

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

I think it is very rare that a relationship/marriage works with such an extreme age difference. She was 16 and he was 32 when they met. That is just CRAZY to me. She had to have seen him as more of a "father figure" or "Uncle" when she first arrived at PP. In a televised interview, when asked about being attracted to him when she started working with him, she stated something to the effect of, "ewwwww, no way, not at all!" She always claims that her attraction/feelings "evolved" over time. That makes no sense to me. As she got older, so did he.

She was older than 16 at the time but same difference - she was young. However, she was not like others her age. She already had a career, seens places and knew about business. She was trained by her mama, also how to play demure.

I always say there is some psychology at work when it comes to Prince, that you do not see him as an uncle or father. Maybe some did. He could be very "daddy", yes. But his height and his own "girly" side made the difference to thoughts you would usually apply to "young girl - much older man". His height let you be on eye level with him and that's why you didn't feel this barrier.

What's more, mostly you didn't think about his age, simply because he didn't. To me he had always been "my brother". He seemed much younger and had other interests than the average guy. He had been an abandoned child and still carried that with him and he created his own universe and "magic" and had something that felt like HOME.

A friend and I were always joking, Imagine P coming home from a job in a bank or whatever, flopping himself on the couch, unzip his pants and crack open a can of beer. Just didn't happen. It was easier to imagine him as a fairy or something.

So you just couldn't look at him like at the average guy.

I also doubt that their feelings for each other really changed. He had that fairytale created to the outside world, yes. He just had to believe in this for various reasons. But as someone else said before - you don't have somebody on your payroll for years and then suddenly realize they are your soulmate or "the One".

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same. I was quite experienced with boys/relationships through my teens, and was working a Summer job at a nightclub as a cocktail waitress at 19 in between college semesters. I had a 28 yr old guy who made every effort possible to get me to go on a date with him, and I had absolutely no interest. I looked at him as a much older man, and that was only a 9-10 yr age difference. The severity of the age gap does close somewhat in later years, but certainly not with 16 to 32.

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Also, "stage Moms" are notoriously protective of their daughters. The intensity is directed at the success of the performances - not with their daughters getting hooked up with older men. That is something altogether different, which is why her Mother is often referred to as "Pimp Momma". I have an 11 yr old daughter - I don't care how talented a performer I think she is - I would NEVER put her in that position. I think you'll find many Mothers feel the same, unless fame and money are their priority.

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Regarding Prince as "always wanting to be that "fairytale" persona with his women - not at all how Susannah described him. She stated there were many nights with him where it was just popcorn and television on the couch. Susan Rogers has also told the story of going over to his house on Thanksgiving to visit him and Susannah, and finding him asleep on the couch. So, no - it seems he could very well be a "regular" guy with those he was initimate with and loved.

violetcrush said:

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same.

Welcome to Europe.

It's funny that you bring Susannah - or better what she said on one podcast - as an example to disagree on just about everything.

You're starting to sound like SkipperLove Whatever, you will know better. It's alright.

[Edited 9/15/18 8:32am]

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

Right, I would not classify her as a "bimbo" at all, but I don't consider her to be an intellectual type either. I think she was smart in using her physical attributes to gain success, however, I also think this, and probably a troubled childhood are what led to her drug addiction. I have seen a few interviews where she was coherent and thoughtful, but I've also seen many others where she was scattered and silly. I have also read that she was sweet to Susan - and to some degree Jill after awhile. Susan ended her intimate relationship with Prince, and became friends with Vanity.

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I think what attracted Prince to Susannah the most was her more humble nature, intellect, humor, and her knowledge of music and the business. Unlike Vanity, who was taught the business by Prince, Susannah taught him some things and/or they were on more of an equal playing field when it came to musical knowledge. My impression is that they had more in common in that way, and deeper conversations. I think she kept him mentally interested. Also, there was the bond with Wendy and Lisa. Lots of factors in the equation.

Vanity had a more troubled past and was gorgeous/sexy so her default was to play sexy Vanity...likely came easily to her. She was more emotionally fragile and of course, drugs were an issue which were in large part contributing to her "scattered/silly" persona.

Vanity was not exposed to culture the way Susannah was, though, I think she had an emotional depth and strength of character that appealed to P. I feel he looked up to her spiritually. She also spoke very intelligently during the interview I referred to. We don't know if she was an intellectual seeker as well as a spiritual one.

I wonder if he would have been as upset if he learned about the death of Susannah v Vanity?

I don't think so.

Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him.

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I agree Vanity had emotional depth to her, but it has been written that she and Prince fought constantly - no doubt because she was tough in her convictions, but also because, as he put it during his concert, "she was the finest lookng woman in the world, and she never missed an opportunity to tell you that". She knew she had beauty, and she used it/flaunted it to her advantage.

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Susannah was also very attractive, but in a different way - classy, subtle, and sexy without flaunting. Hard to classify, but an example is the Anotherlover video. She was wearing only a bandeau top and miniskirt, but it just looked stylish and classy - not porn-like. And her moves on stage were subtle but sexy and appealing.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Vanity had a more troubled past and was gorgeous/sexy so her default was to play sexy Vanity...likely came easily to her. She was more emotionally fragile and of course, drugs were an issue which were in large part contributing to her "scattered/silly" persona.

Vanity was not exposed to culture the way Susannah was, though, I think she had an emotional depth and strength of character that appealed to P. I feel he looked up to her spiritually. She also spoke very intelligently during the interview I referred to. We don't know if she was an intellectual seeker as well as a spiritual one.

I wonder if he would have been as upset if he learned about the death of Susannah v Vanity?

I don't think so.

Oh, I disagree completely. I have no doubt he would have been devastated about the death of Susannah. He was close to her entire family too. I think he saw and communicated with her much more through the years. Just because Vanity and Prince were both into "spirituality" in different ways throughout their lives, does not mean that he felt more for her romantically because of it. I think Vanity became a born again Christian because she almost died. She turned her addiction to drugs into a religious addiction - which no doubt saved her life, so it is a good thing. I think Prince turned to the JW faith after the tragic death of his baby. He was seeking solace and answers. I can't begin to imagine the emotional struggle for him.

*

I agree Vanity had emotional depth to her, but it has been written that she and Prince fought constantly - no doubt because she was tough in her convictions, but also because, as he put it during his concert, "she was the finest lookng woman in the world, and she never missed an opportunity to tell you that". She knew she had beauty, and she used it/flaunted it to her advantage.

*

Susannah was also very attractive, but in a different way - classy, subtle, and sexy without flaunting. Hard to classify, but an example is the Anotherlover video. She was wearing only a bandeau top and miniskirt, but it just looked stylish and classy - not porn-like. And her moves on stage were subtle but sexy and appealing.

Whatev...

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

Mayte is on camera stating she was absolutely NOT attracted to him when she met him and began working with him. 16 is 16 - I don't care what kind of work you are doing - be it working at a local pizza place, or belly dancing around Germany. Doesn't matter. The mindset regarding boys and men is still the same.

Welcome to Europe.

It's funny that you bring Susannah - or better what she said on one podcast - as an example to disagree on just about everything.

You're starting to sound like SkipperLove Whatever, you will know better. It's alright.

[Edited 9/15/18 8:32am]

Well, it was a 11/2 hour in depth interview about her intimate relationship with Prince, so I would say it's a pretty reliable source for information.....as opposed to your many extremely vague comments about Prince - information which most people have already read in Biographies and/or other interviews by those who knew him personally. She's also contributed to reputable Biographies on his life - Alan Light's and Matt Thorne's books, and I'm sure others as well.

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Europe or USA.....kids are kids. No doubt some younger girls go after older men, but that is usually because they have "Daddy" issues, ie: an absent or abusive Father. Not the case with Mayte, as she has stated her Father was there for her.

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

No, Lisa did not have a "little red car". She had a vintage salmon colored Mercury Cougar that she nicknamed "Betty Flounder". She stated that Prince used to borrow the car to listen to his tapes, because it had a state of the art sound system. She stated that one night he fell asleep while listening to music in the car, and came up with the lyrics for LRC. The song inspiration has nothing to do with Lisa's car, other than he thought of the lyrics to the song while he was using the car. The LRC in the song is clearly a metaphor for the girl's "parts" and also her sexual appetite.

I said that it is what we know from Prince. Others may have their versions.

And I know what the song is about, that's why it screams Vanity.

Oh, right....okay. I'm sure I can see Prince sitting around and talking about the specifics of the lyrics to LRC. Are you serious here????

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The story of Lisa's car, and him writing LRC came from LISA herself. I'm going to guess that she remembers what type of car she drove, as well as, what the specifics were for that song. She discusses it during her interview with Questlove on his podcast show "Questlove Supreme". I highly recommend it if you haven't listened to it. Also, Susannah talks about "Betty Flounder" during her interview with Questlove on that same podcast show.

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The song is not about Vanity.

CatB said:

peggyon said:

I watched an interview with Vanity during the Vanity 6 period when she was not being"Vanity".

She was somewhat quiet and articulate with a beautiful speaking voice, somewhat like Susannah's.

As I recall, she was taking a kind of motherly role towards Susan.

I found her quite thoughtful and intelligent. I think there was more to her than we saw. I don't think Prince would have been as connected to her through the years if she had been a bimbo.

Yes. And she was also a motherly figure for him. She was the only woman to pick out his clothes, spoon-feed him when he refused to eat and she said they were both leaders.
She was sharp, even when "under the influence".

Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

Yes. And she was also a motherly figure for him. She was the only woman to pick out his clothes, spoon-feed him when he refused to eat and she said they were both leaders.
She was sharp, even when "under the influence".

Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group.

Violet-I just want to say that you come across as very dogmatic and it stops the flow of conversation.

Many of us have read as much as you have and choose to interpret differently at times than you.

Some org posters actually knew him.

Please be more conversational instead of lecturing.

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

Vanity, a leader??? She did everything Prince required her to do while she was in the camp. Have you listened to her later interviews on YT?? She has stated in several of them that she HAD to wear the lingerie and sing the sex songs or she would not get paid. She was not a leader there. That image was forced on her by Prince. Prince also had Brenda as more of the "manager" and speaker for the group, because Vanity was unpredictable in interviews. She was the "leader" of the group in terms of public marketing, but from what I have read, it was Brenda who kept things together behind the scenes. There is an early interview of the group on YT, which shows this dynamic. Brenda is mainly speaking for the group when questions are asked, and her answers are the most intelligent of the group.

Violet-I just want to say that you come across as very dogmatic and it stops the flow of conversation.

Many of us have read as much as you have and choose to interpret differently at times than you.

Some org posters actually knew him.

Please be more conversational instead of lecturing.

Not trying to "lecture" at all, and I apologize if that is the impression. However, some of the interpretations or opinions just competely contradict statements made by the actual subjects of those statements based on interviews of them discussing their experiences with Prince.

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Example: Vanity (as Denise), in more recent interviews, was very candid in describing her time in the Prince camp. When asked about the outfits and the sexual nature of the songs/shows she had stated those decisions were all made by Prince - even stating "If I didn't wear the outfits I didn't get paid". She, like many others who had relationships with him, has said he controlled everything.

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In discussing Prince with regard to how he was with women, relationships, musicians, etc - I always refer to statements made by those who are known to have been closest to him as a more reliable source, as opposed to an anonymous poster here.

violetcrush said:

CatB said:

I said that it is what we know from Prince. Others may have their versions.

And I know what the song is about, that's why it screams Vanity.

Oh, right....okay. I'm sure I can see Prince sitting around and talking about the specifics of the lyrics to LRC. Are you serious here????

*

The story of Lisa's car, and him writing LRC came from LISA herself. I'm going to guess that she remembers what type of car she drove, as well as, what the specifics were for that song. She discusses it during her interview with Questlove on his podcast show "Questlove Supreme". I highly recommend it if you haven't listened to it. Also, Susannah talks about "Betty Flounder" during her interview with Questlove on that same podcast show.

*

The song is not about Vanity.

And here we go again Susannah this, Susannah that.

Keep spewing, this is not a debate where you can win an argument. We can all read liner notes and there you have the info about LRC. Prince said no more and no less and did nothing other than dedicating it to Vanity later on. The rest is hearsay, even for Mi-Ling.

It gets ridiculous when you seriously talk like you know people better than they know themselves. People who were there. Vanity herself said in an interview which you still find on youtube that they were both leaders. And if you look how she was under Prince's skin all those years you cannot seriously put her in a corner where you like to have her, so your world isn't shaken. You're so blinded by your own filters that you really don't seem to see how you apply them to everything. The world isn't black or white, or should I say peach and black?

I have listened to podcasts, yes. I was asked to speak on one myself.

But let me give you a recommendation - live and let live.