In your opinion or research, would this include all forms of orally ingested lidocaine?

*

I ask because I have an extremely long history of GI problems and pain. GI pain has brought me into the ER on many occasions and to try to relieve the pain at least for awhile, in a few of those ER visits I've been given what they call a "GI cocktail" and one of the ingredients in the concoction is liquid form of lidocaine.

*

Here is a link to one article that describes what I'm talking about and how the mixture is intended to treat symptoms, but if you Google 'gi cocktail' you'll find many other sites and pages that go into greater detail about it.

*

https://www.findatopdoc.com/Healthy-Living/GI-cocktail

-

-

(sorry, I thought I'd made the above link clickable but it didn't work. also I was responding to the poster saying lidocaine in pill form doesn't work but for some reason the quoted text disappeared when I posted. I can't do anything right today it seems )

[Edited 8/5/18 13:10pm]

Camileyun said:

Bodhi's info. also supports the notion that he separated the pills for a reason. What reason would he have for just having lidocaine pills, if not purposely trying to counteract opioid withdrawal symptoms? His "Bayer" pills contained both compounds, but he may have used the lidocaine when he used other opiods. I don't think someone was trying to rip him off giving him lidocaine pills that were supposed to be something else - he'd have figured that out right away and thrown them out...not keep them on his nightstand together with his other pills. (Caveat...speculation!)

Cami, if you read Bodhi's post he states: "While not administered/manufactured in pill form for oral consumption ,nor recommended by the manufacturer for oral consumption, it IS a compound that can be made into pill form. Some may believe that it is merely a cutting agent that "bulk" up sales"

It is a compound that can be cut into other substances, but it is the liquid form that is cut into those other agents. There are no pills made that are strictly lidocaine.

I also doubt seriously that Prince knew what his pills were cut with, that they contained lidocaine. He bought the pills from somewhere, yes, but usually it is purchased from a seller who is NOT going to know what those pills were cut with. Their job is just to distribute the product. Only the manufacturer of those pills would know they cut them with lidocaine. So, unless Prince was communicating directly with the manufacturer of those pills, he would not have known.

benni said:

Camileyun said:

Bodhi's info. also supports the notion that he separated the pills for a reason. What reason would he have for just having lidocaine pills, if not purposely trying to counteract opioid withdrawal symptoms? His "Bayer" pills contained both compounds, but he may have used the lidocaine when he used other opiods. I don't think someone was trying to rip him off giving him lidocaine pills that were supposed to be something else - he'd have figured that out right away and thrown them out...not keep them on his nightstand together with his other pills. (Caveat...speculation!)

Cami, if you read Bodhi's post he states: "While not administered/manufactured in pill form for oral consumption ,nor recommended by the manufacturer for oral consumption, it IS a compound that can be made into pill form. Some may believe that it is merely a cutting agent that "bulk" up sales"

It is a compound that can be cut into other substances, but it is the liquid form that is cut into those other agents. There are no pills made that are strictly lidocaine.

I also doubt seriously that Prince knew what his pills were cut with, that they contained lidocaine. He bought the pills from somewhere, yes, but usually it is purchased from a seller who is NOT going to know what those pills were cut with. Their job is just to distribute the product. Only the manufacturer of those pills would know they cut them with lidocaine. So, unless Prince was communicating directly with the manufacturer of those pills, he would not have known.

OF COURSE, the man who had his underpants made to order was communicating with the manufacturer of the pills in his possession....how else was he going to get EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED , which was the central theme/driver of his life?

Strawberrylova123 said:

R.I.P to these thread...sigh

SkipperLove said:

http://www.dailymail.co.u...d-him.html

muchtoofast said:

SkipperLove said: I would love to read that second interview, do you have a link?

No wait .... in the first interview he said that the last time he saw P and gave him that supply was for the Super Bowl in 2007 in Miami and now he says that he was in 2008 in Coachella? ..........

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

benni said:

Cami, if you read Bodhi's post he states: "While not administered/manufactured in pill form for oral consumption ,nor recommended by the manufacturer for oral consumption, it IS a compound that can be made into pill form. Some may believe that it is merely a cutting agent that "bulk" up sales"

It is a compound that can be cut into other substances, but it is the liquid form that is cut into those other agents. There are no pills made that are strictly lidocaine.

I also doubt seriously that Prince knew what his pills were cut with, that they contained lidocaine. He bought the pills from somewhere, yes, but usually it is purchased from a seller who is NOT going to know what those pills were cut with. Their job is just to distribute the product. Only the manufacturer of those pills would know they cut them with lidocaine. So, unless Prince was communicating directly with the manufacturer of those pills, he would not have known.

OF COURSE, the man who had his underpants made to order was communicating with the manufacturer of the pills in his possession....how else was he going to get EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED , which was the central theme/driver of his life?

Okay, let's break your statement down and think about this logically and realistically. So, I have some questions: 1. Prince, the man everyone is claiming is so shy, had stage fright, would be able to communicate with a manufacturer of illicit drugs (keeping in mind that these people tend to be like, you know, actual criminals)? The same man, who Chris Rock once shared a story that Prince went into the home of someone that he didn't know, where people were partying, and sat there, refusing to touch anything and looking like he wanted to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible, because he was not comfortable in that element? 2. Where would Prince meet these said criminals and makers of illicit drugs to know how to order them? 3. Usually, even dealers don't get them from the manufacturers of illicit drugs, but through another person, as they are very protective of themselves and they have several layers between them and the dealiers, that's why drug busts take so long to get the people high up and DEA works undercover trying to find a way to get to the head honchos, but our Prince was able to do that? How?

OCCAM'S RAZOR, people.

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Cami, if you read Bodhi's post he states: "While not administered/manufactured in pill form for oral consumption ,nor recommended by the manufacturer for oral consumption, it IS a compound that can be made into pill form. Some may believe that it is merely a cutting agent that "bulk" up sales"

It is a compound that can be cut into other substances, but it is the liquid form that is cut into those other agents. There are no pills made that are strictly lidocaine.

I also doubt seriously that Prince knew what his pills were cut with, that they contained lidocaine. He bought the pills from somewhere, yes, but usually it is purchased from a seller who is NOT going to know what those pills were cut with. Their job is just to distribute the product. Only the manufacturer of those pills would know they cut them with lidocaine. So, unless Prince was communicating directly with the manufacturer of those pills, he would not have known.

Please read pg. 151 of the Investigative Report, Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension drug analysis. You will find your statement is incorrect. [Edited 8/5/18 13:51pm]

Might want to recommend that to Bodhi, then, too.

And please supply a link, because I don't have them downloaded, nor do I have a link to where they are located.

[Edited 8/5/18 13:55pm]

benni said:

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Okay, let's break your statement down and think about this logically and realistically. So, I have some questions: 1. Prince, the man everyone is claiming is so shy, had stage fright, would be able to communicate with a manufacturer of illicit drugs (keeping in mind that these people tend to be like, you know, actual criminals)? The same man, who Chris Rock once shared a story that Prince went into the home of someone that he didn't know, where people were partying, and sat there, refusing to touch anything and looking like he wanted to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible, because he was not comfortable in that element? 2. Where would Prince meet these said criminals and makers of illicit drugs to know how to order them? 3. Usually, even dealers don't get them from the manufacturers of illicit drugs, but through another person, as they are very protective of themselves and they have several layers between them and the dealiers, that's why drug busts take so long to get the people high up and DEA works undercover trying to find a way to get to the head honchos, but our Prince was able to do that? How?

OCCAM'S RAZOR, people.

Your second sentence just answered your first question. To your next question, you do know what industry P was in, do you not? And thirdly, our P was a very intelligent individual that could get what he wanted, when he wanted. Who was going to deny him? And, unfortunately, no one did!

No, the second question doesn't, because it shows that kind of element terrified Prince. He would not have communicated with known criminals, especially drug manufacturers who are known to be VERY violent when needed to protect their business. And even musicians, actors, et al, do not have access to the manufacturers of these drugs. They mainly deal with trusted dealers, not the actual manufacturers. Yes, P, was very intelligent, but he was not someone who was going to design a drug for his own use. He was not a chemist.

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Might want to recommend that to Bodhi, then, too.

And please supply a link, because I don't have them downloaded, nor do I have a link to where they are located.

[Edited 8/5/18 13:55pm]

Google NY Times, Prince Death Investigation. You are commenting based on what if you have not read the report? Just asking.

I can't read the NY TIMES, you have to be subscribed to it.

I am commenting based upon knowledge of drugs, how they affect people, how druggies usually get their drugs, and upon years of following Prince closely and paying attention to who he was. I don't need to read the investigation to pull upon my own knowledge base. And if you notice, usually the comments I respond to are the ones that are stretching the imagination, not what the record contains, but the suppositions that people are creating to fit what they want it to say.

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said: Your second sentence just answered your first question. To your next question, you do know what industry P was in, do you not? And thirdly, our P was a very intelligent individual that could get what he wanted, when he wanted. Who was going to deny him? And, unfortunately, no one did!

No, the second question doesn't, because it shows that kind of element terrified Prince. He would not have communicated with known criminals, especially drug manufacturers who are known to be VERY violent when needed to protect their business. And even musicians, actors, et al, do not have access to the manufacturers of these drugs. They mainly deal with trusted dealers, not the actual manufacturers. Yes, P, was very intelligent, but he was not someone who was going to design a drug for his own use. He was not a chemist.

https://www.medicalnumbingagents.com/

it's not rocket science...

benni said:

But what I did find, that was talking about the kinds of pills found at Prince's home, was this comment:

Another aspirin bottle had more than 60 counterfeit tablets in it.

Some pills that were analysed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 - a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine.

This indicates that the pills contained all 3 substances, not that there were 3 different kinds of pills analyzed, but rather that the pills analyzed had these 3 things in that pill that was analyzed.

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Might want to recommend that to Bodhi, then, too.

And please supply a link, because I don't have them downloaded, nor do I have a link to where they are located.

[Edited 8/5/18 13:55pm]

Bodhi knows, it may be that you are confused.

Apparently Bodhi didn't, because I was responding to Bodhi's post which stated,

FACT: Lidocaine can be taken orally. While not administered/manufactured in pill form for oral consumption ,nor recommended by the manufacturer for oral consumption, it IS a compound that can be made into pill form. Some may believe that it is merely a cutting agent that "bulk" up sales....but but WHY would Prince possess and injest a Lidocaine laced pill specifically (rather than one laced with any other cutting agent)?BECAUSE when the fentanyl( or any other opiate) wears off, there was a decreased functionality in the opioid receptor which caused high sensitivity to pain .This activated the NMDA receptor which caused neuropathic nerve pain from overexcited nerve cells.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

benni said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

benni said:

No, the second question doesn't, because it shows that kind of element terrified Prince. He would not have communicated with known criminals, especially drug manufacturers who are known to be VERY violent when needed to protect their business. And even musicians, actors, et al, do not have access to the manufacturers of these drugs. They mainly deal with trusted dealers, not the actual manufacturers. Yes, P, was very intelligent, but he was not someone who was going to design a drug for his own use. He was not a chemist.

https://www.medicalnumbingagents.com/

it's not rocket science...

Bodhi, how much would put in each pill? How would the lidocaine effect the other ingredients that you are adding to the pills? What is the molecule structure of lidocaine and would that structure change when other active ingredients are added to it? If that molecule structure changes, would that increase or decrease the effectiveness of lidocaine or would it possibly change it's total effect?

Sorry maybe what I'm asking is a little out ot ... Did any of you listen to the 2045 song from P? The first part I found disturbing, it reminded me when the coroner files will be released

I also found this:

Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said.


The autopsy report also shows Prince had diazepam, lidocaine and hydrocodone acids in his body, the official said. Diazepam is an anti-anxiety pill sold as Valium. It's a sedative and can also be used to control seizures, which Prince suffered from as a child. Lidocaine is a local anesthetic.


Now this report may have not known that lidocaine could be added as a cutting agent to illicit pills, but in this report they mentioned "local anesthetic" which indicates a topical agent, not an ingested one.

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said:

But what I did find, that was talking about the kinds of pills found at Prince's home, was this comment:

Another aspirin bottle had more than 60 counterfeit tablets in it.

Some pills that were analysed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 - a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine.

This indicates that the pills contained all 3 substances, not that there were 3 different kinds of pills analyzed, but rather that the pills analyzed had these 3 things in that pill that was analyzed.

Incorrect again. What is your source?

Oh? How so?

paulludvig said:

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Okay, let's break your statement down and think about this logically and realistically. So, I have some questions: 1. Prince, the man everyone is claiming is so shy, had stage fright, would be able to communicate with a manufacturer of illicit drugs (keeping in mind that these people tend to be like, you know, actual criminals)? The same man, who Chris Rock once shared a story that Prince went into the home of someone that he didn't know, where people were partying, and sat there, refusing to touch anything and looking like he wanted to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible, because he was not comfortable in that element? 2. Where would Prince meet these said criminals and makers of illicit drugs to know how to order them? 3. Usually, even dealers don't get them from the manufacturers of illicit drugs, but through another person, as they are very protective of themselves and they have several layers between them and the dealiers, that's why drug busts take so long to get the people high up and DEA works undercover trying to find a way to get to the head honchos, but our Prince was able to do that? How?

OCCAM'S RAZOR, people.

Your second sentence just answered your first question. To your next question, you do know what industry P was in, do you not? And thirdly, our P was a very intelligent individual that could get what he wanted, when he wanted. Who was going to deny him? And, unfortunately, no one did!

No, the second question doesn't, because it shows that kind of element terrified Prince. He would not have communicated with known criminals, especially drug manufacturers who are known to be VERY violent when needed to protect their business. And even musicians, actors, et al, do not have access to the manufacturers of these drugs. They mainly deal with trusted dealers, not the actual manufacturers. Yes, P, was very intelligent, but he was not someone who was going to design a drug for his own use. He was not a chemist.

Apparently Prince was at the forefront of medical science discovering hitherto unknown properties and potential applications of lidocain

benni said:

I also found this:

Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said.


The autopsy report also shows Prince had diazepam, lidocaine and hydrocodone acids in his body, the official said. Diazepam is an anti-anxiety pill sold as Valium. It's a sedative and can also be used to control seizures, which Prince suffered from as a child. Lidocaine is a local anesthetic.


Now this report may have not known that lidocaine could be added as a cutting agent to illicit pills, but in this report they mentioned "local anesthetic" which indicates a topical agent, not an ingested one.

which reminds me of the needle puncture in the arm (left I think)

benni said:

Camileyun said:

benni said:

Oh? How so?

What is your source because it is not the IR, which you have not read. Eyes off my paper, do your own homework.

And until you show me your source... isn't that how it goes?

So let's say what you said is true, that he had pills that contained strictly lidocaine. Since lidocaine is a liquid, it would have been mixed with something else (you know, that's why it's used as a cutting agent in illicit drugs, because you can't make pills from liquid unless it's a capsule, but I don't recalling any liquid capsules being found in Prince's home)...what does your source reveal it was cut with?

benni said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

OF COURSE, the man who had his underpants made to order was communicating with the manufacturer of the pills in his possession....how else was he going to get EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED , which was the central theme/driver of his life?

Okay, let's break your statement down and think about this logically and realistically. So, I have some questions: 1. Prince, the man everyone is claiming is so shy, had stage fright, would be able to communicate with a manufacturer of illicit drugs (keeping in mind that these people tend to be like, you know, actual criminals)? The same man, who Chris Rock once shared a story that Prince went into the home of someone that he didn't know, where people were partying, and sat there, refusing to touch anything and looking like he wanted to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible, because he was not comfortable in that element? 2. Where would Prince meet these said criminals and makers of illicit drugs to know how to order them? 3. Usually, even dealers don't get them from the manufacturers of illicit drugs, but through another person, as they are very protective of themselves and they have several layers between them and the dealiers, that's why drug busts take so long to get the people high up and DEA works undercover trying to find a way to get to the head honchos, but our Prince was able to do that? How?

OCCAM'S RAZOR, people.

I was summoned. Laws of "parsimony" will never hold a candle to those who understand complexities.

Whether Prince communicated with said "manufacturer" , a simple chemist down the street, or an illicit "fixer" ,all things being equal, there is indisputable evidence and support for using lidocaine to neutralize opioid pain that stems from long term opioid addiction.

Just because one is a not aware of any studies to support that, does not make it non-existent.

As to any discussions concerning whether lidocaine can be taken in pill form... Of course it can. It's just not made in pill form by manufacturers so you will never find anything legitimate on line concerning "lidocaine/oral/ pills" . Now ask yourself, do you think you could buy Lidocaine in powder form on line? This shouldn't surpirse you. It's sold in bulk all the time. So, If you can buy it, do you think a chemist/dealer could press it into a pill equal to the half life of a liquid injection of lidocaine that lasts "x" amount of hours? LOL.

How do you think the lidocaine PILLS got into PILL form at PP? IF it is in pill form, do you think that the chemical compound in the pill would have any effect on the body in any way if taken orally ?Google it and see if you can do such a thing with LIDOCAINE. I'll let you figuer that out.

This is but a small study conducted by your "gubment".

Lidocaine Infusion for Ch...tients ...




So, still think you can't make a pill out lidocaine because it is an liquid infused injection made by manufacturers? Dealers/rogue chemist do every day what the government decide to set trials for. Think again.

Masking the Bitter Taste ...on for ...


Moving on to Prince... As to the argument that is merely a cutting agent to "bulk " up product... what is the point of providing said addict with a batch of lidocaine pills separately? What is he bulking up exactly? Was this a cocaine batch we are speakin of? The reason why the chemcial analysis and make up of the pills were never found in the DEA data base( exhaustive) is because lidocaine was notprimary soruce of use as a cutting agent with fentanyl . It is more a coke based cutting agent for those "sniffers" who wouldnt be able to tell if the lidocaine or the cocaine was numbing them up.

Let's say that Prince had no idea what were in the pills, what is the purpose for separating anything if it is all the same? This seems to be counterproductive to addictive behavior.

Secondly ,if the idea is that the "dealer" is bulking up the fentanyl pills with lidocaine, what did he/she ( the dealer) accomplish by doing that? Not one single "mad rush" was reported for fentanyl pills laced with lidocaine in it. A dealer could press up pure fentanyl pills of the same size and not one of us( to include Prince) would be able to analyize it and say there is lidocaine in it because of the way it looks or taste. OTO, if you are told the difference, you would understand why the pills should be separated.

Which leads us back to Bod's points. Why would lidocaine ( separate or as part of a mixture) even be a part of this equation? Is there a synergy between fentanyl and lidocaine as it relates to your receptors? I could go on and on and post a million peered reviewed links concerning the matter. I thnk she (Bod)stated it quite eloquently. With fentanyl and lidocaine , you have the best of both worlds.

benni said: